Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:08 AM - Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Thom Riddle)
2. 07:58 AM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
3. 08:16 AM - Re: Re: Noise Insulating Foam (John Hauck)
4. 10:25 AM - Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (Mahesh Iyer)
5. 10:41 AM - Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (robert bean)
6. 12:48 PM - Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (Ralph B)
7. 01:09 PM - Re: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (John Hauck)
8. 01:50 PM - Re: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (Mike Welch)
9. 02:14 PM - Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (Tom Longo)
10. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (robert bean)
11. 02:49 PM - Fuel Reserve and UL's (Bob Kravis)
12. 03:13 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Larry Cottrell)
13. 03:28 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Dana Hague)
14. 03:47 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Bob Kravis)
15. 04:36 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Larry Cottrell)
16. 04:52 PM - check list (lhaggerty)
17. 05:12 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
18. 05:33 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (John Hauck)
19. 05:33 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (John Hauck)
20. 05:47 PM - Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) (LEE CREECH)
21. 05:50 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Herb)
22. 05:51 PM - baggage compartment (Dana Hague)
23. 05:51 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Dana Hague)
24. 06:16 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Richard Pike)
25. 06:19 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (John Hauck)
26. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (John Hauck)
27. 06:45 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (John Hauck)
28. 06:59 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Jack B. Hart)
29. 07:08 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (John Hauck)
30. 07:19 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (chris davis)
31. 08:42 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
32. 09:11 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
33. 09:50 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Richard Pike)
34. 10:01 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (John Hauck)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Noise Insulating Foam |
I just got a response to an email inquiry to the site I listed as a supplier of
the RoadBlockR product, which follows:
Hi Thom,
Planes and autos are always a tough one because of all of the noise variables.
I had a gentleman who had replaced the bushings on his car with urethane bushings
and had a very high pitched whirring sound as a result. He used the RoadBlockR
and saw a definite reduction in vibrational noise in the car (and his audio
system sounded 10 xs better!), less of an echoing. He did see some minor
reduction in the airborne noise, but not as much as he had hoped, so he is furthering
the application with some sound absorption foam under the carpeting,
etc. I havent heard back from him just yet on how he made out with that.
One of the other products you could look at is lining portions of the cabin with
something like this product. This comes with either a peel and stick backing,
or can be applied with an adhesive.
http://www.soundproofcow.com/foam-soundproofing-barriers/soundproofing-insulation-foam.html
Then I got another reply which follows:
Hey Thom!
I missed the last part of your email. The vibrational products do not have an
STC rating, they have a Loss Ratio number. This is due to the fact that is a
different test that is applied. They test the vibraitonal loss at different
temperatures. The Barrier Composite has an STC of 20 from the barrier and an
NRC of .25
Something else to consider, Roadblock R is a Class A rated fire resistant product.
The second product is not. May be an important consideration.
Also, our Silent Running product is a roll on or spray on product. It basically
takes the ding out of the metalif the metal is hit, it has a thump sound.
http://www.soundproofcow.com/sound-deadening/sound-damping-coating.html
Tiffany M Roth
Acoustic Design Rep/Account Manager
American Micro Industries
440 Ramsey Ave
Chambersburg, PA 17201
P: 717-262-7244 C: 717-658-9111 F: 717-261-1790
troth@americanmicroinc.com
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory.
- Friedrich Engels
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288283#288283
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Subject: | Re: Noise Insulating Foam |
John
I just found a sample of sound insulation I picked up at Sun-N-Fun last year
made for aircraft. I don't know how well it works. Scroll down they sell
their product in bulk.
http://www.soundexproducts.com/order.html
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
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Subject: | Re: Noise Insulating Foam |
I just found a sample of sound insulation I picked up at Sun-N-Fun last
year
made for aircraft.
Rick Neilsen
**************
I'll probably go with the RoadBlockR product. It seems that it will do what
I want it to do with the simplest installation.
If I could keep the area under the center section and the top of the fuel
tank dry, I'd stuff it with insulation and drive one.
I can live with some noise, as I have done for years, but since the center
section overhaul, it has become overwhelming.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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Subject: | Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
Dear Kolbers,
I wanted to know your views on the performance of a Bose Headset on Rotax e
ngines in case anyone has used it.
I presently fly with a Lightspeed XC and it performs good both on the Kolb
and GA aircraft, but if the Bose is really quiet, I was planning to upgrade
. Any feedback is appreciated.
=C2-
Thanks,
Mahesh Iyer
Kolb FS-2,
Oregon.
The joy of Flight Nothing comes closer, it=99s a ro
mance for life!
=C2-=0A=0A=0A
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
They may be the perfect headset but I could build a whole airplane for
what a pair of them cost.
Wait until the chinese copy them for $25.
BB
do not archive
On 26, Feb 2010, at 1:22 PM, Mahesh Iyer wrote:
> Dear Kolbers,
> I wanted to know your views on the performance of a Bose Headset on
Rotax engines in case anyone has used it.
> I presently fly with a Lightspeed XC and it performs good both on the
Kolb and GA aircraft, but if the Bose is really quiet, I was planning to
upgrade. Any feedback is appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Mahesh Iyer
> Kolb FS-2,
> Oregon.
> The joy of Flight =85=85Nothing comes closer, it=92s a romance for
life!
>
>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
A friend of mine uses the Bose headsets in his 912 Titan. I flew beside him to
Oshkosh last summer and thought the Bose wasn't quite what I expected. It was
hard to understand him at times. I use a DRE Communications headset that is passive
and he understands me all the time. I bought a pair of Lightspeed 20xl's
and they are terrible in the Kolbra. The background noise is awful. If I bought
another pair, I would go with the Telex Digital 50's. I have heard good reports
about them in the 912 series engines. I notice DRE has come out with some
later models that have ANR. Maybe that would be the way to go.
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
23 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
2 years flying it
120 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288359#288359
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Subject: | Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
I notice DRE has come out with some later models that have ANR. Maybe that
would be the way to go.
Ralph
Ralph/Gang:
That is the DRE6000 ENR. Other day I referred to it as the ANR, but I
wouldn't know the difference between the two designations.
I've been flying with mine for several years. I have two sets. The older
set works better than the new set, to me, but I have David Clark high dollar
silicone ear seals. The new set has cheaper DC silicone seals.
Biggest problem with any ANR or passive headset is making sure it has a good
seal around your ears. Eye glass stems and base ball hats contribute to air
leaks which reduce the performance of the head set.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
> Biggest problem with any ANR or passive headset is making sure it has a g
ood
> seal around your ears.
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus=2C Alabama
John H.=2C
That's a very important you make there. In my Headsets Inc. installation
instructions=2C they tell me I have to have the gel ear seals. Any other
type of seal just won't work.
Fortunately=2C in my case I already had the gel seals.
Mike Welch
MkIII
ailerons and flap being reinstalled--permanently=2C this time
_________________________________________________________________
Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free.
Message 9
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Subject: | Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
?
I tried a set of Bose in my MKIII with a 582 on it and they did not work
very good, noise is to high frequency in the Kolb. Comtronics headsets
and intercom combo set up worked well. Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mahesh Iyer
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 1:23 PM
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Kolb-List: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax
engines)
Dear Kolbers,
I wanted to know your views on the performance of a Bose Headset
on Rotax engines in case anyone has used it.
I presently fly with a Lightspeed XC and it performs good both
on the Kolb and GA aircraft, but if the Bose is really quiet, I was
planning to upgrade. Any feedback is appreciated.
Thanks,
Mahesh Iyer
Kolb FS-2,
Oregon.
The joy of Flight =EF=BD=EF=BDNothing comes closer,
it=EF=BDs a romance for life!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
pince-nez sunglasses?
BB
do not archive
On 26, Feb 2010, at 4:48 PM, Mike Welch wrote:
> > Biggest problem with any ANR or passive headset is making sure it
has a good
> > seal around your ears.
> > john hauck
> > mkIII
> > Titus, Alabama
>
> John H.,
>
> That's a very important you make there. In my Headsets Inc.
installation instructions, they tell me I have to have the gel ear
seals. Any other type of seal just won't work.
> Fortunately, in my case I already had the gel seals.
>
> Mike Welch
> MkIII
> ailerons and flap being reinstalled--permanently, this time
>
>
> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail ='_new'>Sign
up now.
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Fuel Reserve and UL's |
I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel
reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to
the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve,"
the editor replied:
*It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least
30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, should
the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes an
"emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest airport and gas
pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled long before
tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed.*
Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at
6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one
would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only
27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't make a 30
mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest endurance would
be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph?
What is your real world experience?
Bob
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Perhaps you were looking at the wrong chart. I had a 582 that would burn
5 GPH but my 447 never burned more than 3 GPH or less. I do know for
certain on a Firestar 2 and the 447 I regularly got 20 miles per gallon.
I can assure you that I also flew at 6000 rpm's.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Kravis
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:47 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's
I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about
fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a
letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate
reserve," the editor replied:
It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at
least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying
cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel
reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking
for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have
landed and refueled long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.)
- Ed.
Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5
gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still
air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off.
That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You
couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that
greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5
gph @ 50 mph?
What is your real world experience?
Bob
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02/26/10 07:34:00
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
At 05:47 PM 2/26/2010, Bob Kravis wrote:
>It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least
>30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, should
>the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes
>an "emergency,"..
>What is your real world experience?
A 30 minute reserve may be fine for a GA aircraft that needs a 2000' (or
more) paved runway to land, but is hardly necessary for a UL or UL-like
aircraft that can land nearly anywhere.
From any random point in the US, how far (in time) would you have to fly
to reach a suitable airport for a GA plane? How far (again, in time) would
you have to fly to where you can make a safe landing in a Kolb?
If the latter number doesn't agree with the glide ratio and your altitude,
you don't fly like I do.
-Dana
--
Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off now.
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Larry,
Here's the chart I was looking at (see attached).
Bob
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel
> reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to
> the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve,"
> the editor replied:
> *It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at
> least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country,
> should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it
> constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest
> airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled
> long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed.*
> Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph at
> 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air one
> would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's only
> 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't make a 30
> mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest endurance would
> be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph?
> What is your real world experience?
> Bob
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
It might be the right chart, but the results are wrong. They just don't
burn that much gas. Anyone had that kind of usage on a 447? I am not
experienced in a Firefly, but I can't see you using that amount of fuel
at any setting under 6200. You should be able to fly 60 to 70 miles and
still have a gallon of fuel left.
Your best bet would be to do some checking on your own before you wander
off to MV. I would take it up and fly around in the pattern, same
altitude, same setting, timing your flight, land and check the fuel
used. If there is no way to monitor the fuel used, start with a 30
minute flight. Once you figure out your consumption at say 6000 RPM,
then you can check to see what setting will conserve the most fuel and
still give you a suitable power setting.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Kravis
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Larry,
Here's the chart I was looking at (see attached).
Bob
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com>
wrote:
I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about
fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a
letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate
reserve," the editor replied:
It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at
least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying
cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel
reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking
for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have
landed and refueled long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.)
- Ed.
Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5
gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still
air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off.
That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You
couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that
greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5
gph @ 50 mph?
What is your real world experience?
Bob
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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02/26/10 07:34:00
Message 16
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|
I am a new Fire Fly owner. Can some other Fire Fly pilots send me
examples of the check lists they use for before taxi/take off and before
landing/ shutdown. Thanks Pete lhaggerty@tampabay.rr.com
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting
3 to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Kravis <bob.kravis@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 5:47 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's
I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about fuel re
serve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a letter to
the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate reserve,"
the editor replied:
It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at least
30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying cross-country, shoul
d the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel reserve, it constitutes
an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking for the closest airport
and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have landed and refueled long be
fore tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed.
Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5 gph
at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still air
one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off. That's
only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You couldn't ma
ke a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that greatest enduran
ce would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph?
What is your real world experience?
Bob
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Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Ellery B/Gang:
What rpm?
Was that cruise power on a cross country? or flying around the patch?
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was
getting 3 to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Larry C/Gang:
My single carb point ign 447 burned 3.5 to 3.75 gph at 5800 rpm cruise
power on cross country flights.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
It might be the right chart, but the results are wrong. They just
don't burn that much gas. Anyone had that kind of usage on a 447?
Larry
Message 20
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Subject: | Performance of a Bose headset on a Kolb (Rotax engines) |
DQpBIHBsdWcgaGVyZSBmb3IgdGhlIExpZ2h0c3BlZWQgcGFzc2l2ZSBoZWFkc2V0LCB3aGljaCBJ
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Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
I have my logs and they indicate anywhere from 2.3 to 3.3 gph 447
on a firefly...with an empty wt of 292 lbs... ...Herb
At 06:32 PM 2/26/2010, you wrote:
>It might be the right chart, but the results are wrong. They just
>don't burn that much gas. Anyone had that kind of usage on a 447? I
>am not experienced in a Firefly, but I can't see you using that
>amount of fuel at any setting under 6200. You should be able to fly
>60 to 70 miles and still have a gallon of fuel left.
>
>Your best bet would be to do some checking on your own before you
>wander off to MV. I would take it up and fly around in the pattern,
>same altitude, same setting, timing your flight, land and check the
>fuel used. If there is no way to monitor the fuel used, start with a
>30 minute flight. Once you figure out your consumption at say 6000
>RPM, then you can check to see what setting will conserve the most
>fuel and still give you a suitable power setting.
>Larry
>
>
>Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding
>history, which includes my email address.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:bob.kravis@gmail.com>Bob Kravis
>To: <mailto:kolb-list@matronics.com>kolb-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 4:25 PM
>Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's
>
>Larry,
>Here's the chart I was looking at (see attached).
>Bob
>
>On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Bob Kravis
><<mailto:bob.kravis@gmail.com>bob.kravis@gmail.com> wrote:
>I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about
>fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response
>to a letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with
>"adequate reserve," the editor replied:
>It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at
>least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying
>cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR
>fuel reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be
>looking for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot
>should have landed and refueled long before tapping into the
>30-minute VFR reserve.) - Ed.
>Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5
>gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in
>still air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to
>fly off. That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption
>rate. You couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring
>airport! I know that greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but
>how big a difference? 4.5 gph @ 50 mph?
>What is your real world experience?
>Bob
>
>
>get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>----------
>- Release Date: 02/26/10 07:34:00
>
>
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Subject: | baggage compartment |
When I build the new fuel tank behind the seat on my UltraStar, I'm going
to put a baggage compartment in the space where the original tanks were in
front of the seat. I'm still debating how to make it. Thought are thin
(1/8") plywood, fiberglassed over, or foamboard and glass, or plywood
without glass, or aluminum and pop rivets. I'm leaning towards the
aluminum at the moment, since I have some leftover Alclad and angle stock
laying around. Any other suggestions?
I intend to make it at least partially openable in flight. I've also
thought of making it easily removable, and adding a handle, so I can call
it a custom suitcase, not part of the empty weight of my Part 103 aircraft.
-Dana
--
But it's NOT an ASSAULT Weapon, it's a DEFENSE weapon!
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
At 08:07 PM 2/26/2010, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote:
>Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting 3
>to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH
My US with the Cuyuna burns 3.3 gph at cruise (56-5800 rpm).
-Dana
--
But it's NOT an ASSAULT Weapon, it's a DEFENSE weapon!
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
This is why (IMO) bigger 2 strokes are better. I have a 582 in my MKIII, and at
65 mph and 5300 rpm, it burns about 4 gph or a hair less. Ed has a 582 on his
FSII, and at the same speed he turns 5,000 and burns about 3.6 gph.
When I flew to Oshkosh years ago, Ed & Dave had Drifters with 503's. To stay slow
enough to not run away from the Drifters, I was turning the 532 about 5,000,
they were running around 5,600 rpm. I consistently used less fuel than they
did, even though I had dual carbs and they each just had one.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288435#288435
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
My Cuyuna ULII02 burned 3.5 gph at 5800 rpm on cross country flights.
Any aircraft flying around the patch, shooting take offs and landings
will burn much less than they do on a cross country. Many new pilots
are surprised when the find out their engines are burning more than they
thought they would.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
My US with the Cuyuna burns 3.3 gph at cruise (56-5800 rpm).
-Dana
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
This is why (IMO) bigger 2 strokes are better. I have a 582 in my MKIII, and
at 65 mph and 5300 rpm, it burns about 4 gph or a hair less. Ed has a 582 on
his FSII, and at the same speed he turns 5,000 and burns about 3.6 gph.
When I flew to Oshkosh years ago, Ed & Dave had Drifters with 503's. To stay
slow enough to not run away from the Drifters, I was turning the 532 about
5,000, they were running around 5,600 rpm. I consistently used less fuel
than they did, even though I had dual carbs and they each just had one.
Richard Pike
Richard P/Gang:
I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise.
My 582 powered mkIII cruised 80 mph at 5800 rpm and burned 5.5 gph.
My 447 powered FS cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm
and burned 3.5 to 3.75 gph.
My ULII02 powered US cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm
and burned 3.5 gph.
My 912UL powered mkIII cruised 85 mph at 5,000 rpm and burned 4.0 gph.
My 912ULS powered mkIII cruises at 88 mph at 5,000 rpm and burns 5.0 gph.
I flew/fly all my two and four stroke engines at aprx'ly 75% power. They
all were happy at that power setting and the airplanes and I were too.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Didn't finish the sentence below in my previous.
"Many new pilots are surprised when they find out their engines are
burning more during an actual longer cross country than they thought
they would.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Many new pilots are surprised when the find out their engines are
burning more than they thought they would.
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Bob,
When I had a 447 mounted on the FireFly, I flew it 108 mile round trips to
my EAA Chapter meetings. The average for nine trips is given below.
5.71 Gallons burned per round trip
MPG - 18.9
Air Time - 112 minutes
GPH - 3.06
4/4.5 gallon endurance - 78/88 minutes
Speed ground to ground - 57.9 mph
4/4.5 gallon range - 75/85 miles
I hope this helps you out.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
When I had a 447 mounted on the FireFly, I flew it 108 mile round trips to
my EAA Chapter meetings. The average for nine trips is given below.
5.71 Gallons burned per round trip
MPG - 18.9
Air Time - 112 minutes
GPH - 3.06
4/4.5 gallon endurance - 78/88 minutes
Speed ground to ground - 57.9 mph
4/4.5 gallon range - 75/85 miles
I hope this helps you out.
Jack B. Hart FF004
*******************
Hi Guys:
When you all are contributing info on fuel burn, need to include power
setting, i.e., engine rpm. There is a great deal of difference in fuel burn
on two and four stroke aircraft engines at low power settings and higher
power settings. To me, 75% power is normal cruise. Seems most of the
others who have contributed info on fuel burn, cruise much slower.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
John /Ellery/gang I flew my very clean Firestar KXP for ten years with a 50
3 and mostly saw-3.5- gal/hr BUT-only saw 75mph on a long decent 65 m
ph most of the time was my straight and level speed=0A-Chris Davis=0AKXP
503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr
.com>=0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, February 26, 2010 8:20:51
PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's=0A=0A=0AEllery B/Gang:
=0A-=0AWhat rpm?=0A-=0AWas that cruise power on a cross country? or fly
ing around the patch?=0A-=0Ajohn hauck=0AmkIII=0ATitus, Alabama=0A=0A=0A>
Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting 3
-========================
============0A=0A=0A
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
that was Cruise on cross country if I remember correctly around 5600 RPM
@ 6250 RPM in Flat level flight I could get 97.3 MPH around 4.5 GPH
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 8:20 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's
Ellery B/Gang:
What rpm?
Was that cruise power on a cross country? or flying around the patch?
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Bob when I had the firestar Fat but Clean with a 447 on it I was getting
3 to 3.3GPH @ 75MPH
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
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Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
Bob
It really depends on the situation. Determine YOUR fuel burn. If you
test your fuel system so you know when fuel runs out and you know your
fuel gage is always accurate yes you can cut the minimums a bit. I say
that but again it depends on what you are doing. I had a cross country
flight in the UP of Michigan where there was no where to land. I was
less than 2 miles to my fuel stop and I ran into a wall of fog. I had to
turn around and fly almost an hour to find another runway.
I have the standard 10 gallon tanks. When traveling I add a 6 gallon aux
tank which I transfer in flight as soon as I can. I plan my fuel stops
so that I have no less than 5 gallons on board and I burn 4 gal./hr.
Running out of fuel in the air is a REALLY STUPID thing to do.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Kravis
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:47 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Fuel Reserve and UL's
I was reading through the AOPA site because I had a question about
fuel reserve and flight distance in a 447 powered UL. In response to a
letter to the editor questioning the necessity of landing with "adequate
reserve," the editor replied:
It is our opinion that upon landing, every VFR flight should have at
least 30 minutes worth of fuel in the tanks. And if flying
cross-country, should the pilot need to tap into the required VFR fuel
reserve, it constitutes an "emergency," and the pilot should be looking
for the closest airport and gas pump. (Ideally, the pilot should have
landed and refueled long before tapping into the 30-minute VFR reserve.)
- Ed.
Now looking at the Rotax performance charts I see something like 5.5
gph at 6,000 rpm and assuming a UL will be cruising at 63 mph, in still
air one would have only 2.25 gal.'s of a full 5 gal. tank to fly off.
That's only 27 minutes of flying time at that consumption rate. You
couldn't make a 30 mi. flight to a neighboring airport! I know that
greatest endurance would be at a lower rpm but how big a difference? 4.5
gph @ 50 mph?
What is your real world experience?
Bob
Message 33
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Richard P/Gang:
>
> I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise.
>
> My 582 powered mkIII cruised 80 mph at 5800 rpm and burned 5.5 gph.
>
> My 447 powered FS cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm
> and burned 3.5 to 3.75 gph.
>
> My ULII02 powered US cruised (can not remember the cruise speed) at 5800 rpm
> and burned 3.5 gph.
>
> My 912UL powered mkIII cruised 85 mph at 5,000 rpm and burned 4.0 gph.
>
> My 912ULS powered mkIII cruises at 88 mph at 5,000 rpm and burns 5.0 gph.
>
> I flew/fly all my two and four stroke engines at aprx'ly 75% power. They
> all were happy at that power setting and the airplanes and I were too.
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
Happy for ya. If I was going half way across the country, I would ignore how much
gas it burns and how comparatively unpleasant the ride is at 80 and run it
at 5800 rpm too. Going to Oshkosh in the MKIII along with two pokey 503 powered
Maxair Drifters had me running at 5,000 rpm and took 3 days. (groan)
But since I am usually only going 30 or 40 miles to drop in on a local airstrip,
and a MKIII with it's light wing loading enjoys leaping briskly about on a thermally
day, 60 or 65 is a lot nicer, saves gas, and saves me from barfing. Since
I only fly for pleasure, not to get somewhere, rolling with the thermal punches
at 65 is nicer than playing "Test the shoulder harness" at 80.
Aint it great? We can all butter our bread as it suits us.
And since crankshaft bearing loads go up exponentially with RPM, I am satisfied
that that a correctly propped 2 stroke will be happy anywhere in the RPM range,
and the crank will last longer at 5,300 than at 5,800. I treat my 582 gently
and with respect and I expect it to do the same for me. :)
(John, I think we've had this dance before, and still can't seem to agree if it's
a Cha-Cha or a Foxtrot... Hang in there buddy - two strokes are evil and must
be PUNISHED!)
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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Message 34
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Subject: | Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's |
> I flew all my two strokes at 5800 rpm cruise.
>
>
> john hauck
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
(John, I think we've had this dance before, and still can't seem to agree if
it's a Cha-Cha or a Foxtrot... Hang in there buddy - two strokes are evil
and must be PUNISHED!)
Richard Pike
*************
Richard P/Gang:
Sorry about that.
I think you took my reply the wrong way.
I was not arguing with nor trying to out do you. Simply stating the way I
flew and currently fly my airplanes.
I fly normal cruise if I fly 11 miles from my strip to Wetumpka Airport.
I fly normal cruise if I fly around the traffic pattern.
There is more than one way to fly an airplane.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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