---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/02/10: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:16 AM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Thom Riddle) 2. 05:23 AM - Re: New Camera Mounv (Richard Girard) 3. 07:45 AM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (mark.shimei) 4. 07:49 AM - Re: New Camera Mounv (russ kinne) 5. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (b young) 6. 08:05 AM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Thom Riddle) 7. 08:44 AM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (william sullivan) 8. 08:51 AM - Question: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning (TheWanderingWench) 9. 08:55 AM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Thom Riddle) 10. 09:11 AM - Re: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning (william sullivan) 11. 09:22 AM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (william sullivan) 12. 10:10 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Larry Cottrell) 13. 10:10 AM - Emergency Procedures (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 14. 10:28 AM - Videos (william sullivan) 15. 10:37 AM - Re: Emergency Procedures (Jim Kmet) 16. 10:58 AM - Re: Emergency Procedures (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 17. 11:24 AM - Re: Emergency Procedures (John Hauck) 18. 11:50 AM - Hauck's picture (Rex Rodebush) 19. 12:04 PM - Re: New Video (cristalclear13) 20. 12:46 PM - Re: check list (cristalclear13) 21. 12:55 PM - Re: Emergency Procedures (Mike Welch) 22. 12:59 PM - Re: Hauck's picture (John Hauck) 23. 12:59 PM - Re: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (b young) 24. 12:59 PM - Re: Videos (Larry Cottrell) 25. 01:07 PM - Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's (Thom Riddle) 26. 01:29 PM - Re: Hauck's picture (cristalclear13) 27. 02:50 PM - Re: Emergency Procedures (b young) 28. 03:04 PM - Re: Videos (b young) 29. 03:51 PM - Re: Emergency Procedures (Dana Hague) 30. 03:53 PM - Re: Emergency Procedures (TheWanderingWench) 31. 03:54 PM - Re: Emergency Procedures (John Hauck) 32. 03:55 PM - Re: Emergency Procedures (robert bean) 33. 04:57 PM - Re: Fly-in's (Richard & Martha Neilsen) 34. 04:57 PM - Fw: Videos (Larry Cottrell) 35. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Fly-in's (John Hauck) 36. 06:54 PM - Re: Videos (ces308) 37. 07:05 PM - Re: Emergency Procedures (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:01 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's From: "Thom Riddle" . 6 pounds of fuel burnt for each hour spent running your engine at one horsepower output. .6 pounds of fuel burnt for each horsepower your engine outputs for one hour of running time. Same-Same to me. I personally don't care which order you put the units in. The resulting HP estimate will be the same. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288892#288892 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Camera Mounv From: Richard Girard First, should have been camera mounT. Oops. Second, you may be right, although I've done my best to damp out prop and engine vibration at the source, I'll know this afternoon if I need to add vibration damping at the camera end, too. Rick Girard On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > I don't know if you have tried it out yet, but I could never mount any > camera that I used there without a foam pad under it. Even stabilization > would not do it for me. Perhaps yours is smoother than mine was. > Larry > > Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, > which includes my email address. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Richard Girard > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, March 01, 2010 5:36 PM > *Subject:* Kolb-List: New Camera Mounv > > Yesterday was overcast and windy so I put my energy into a new camera mount > for a pilot's eye view. > > Rick Girard > > ------------------------------ > - www.avg.com > 07:34:00 > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:01 AM PST US From: "mark.shimei" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's I cruise my Ultrastar at 4400rpm,burn 2 gph at 50mph. Takeoff max RPM is 6000. EGT is just below 1200,CHT is under 290deg. Gauges were checked for accuracy,I thought they were off. Mark ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:40 AM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Camera Mounv Rick\ IMHO you WILL need vibration-absorption at the camera/airframe junction. Unless all your viewers have very fuzzy vision. Even then, the vibration will loosen screws & various parts over time. Believe this! do not archive Russ K On Mar 2, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Richard Girard wrote: > First, should have been camera mounT. Oops. Second, you may be > right, although I've done my best to damp out prop and engine > vibration at the source, I'll know this afternoon if I need to add > vibration damping at the camera end, too. > > Rick Girard > > On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Larry Cottrell > wrote: > I don't know if you have tried it out yet, but I could never mount > any camera that I used there without a foam pad under it. Even > stabilization would not do it for me. Perhaps yours is smoother > than mine was. > Larry > > Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding > history, which includes my email address. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Richard Girard > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 5:36 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: New Camera Mounv > > Yesterday was overcast and windy so I put my energy into a new > camera mount for a pilot's eye view. > > Rick Girard > > - www.avg.com > 02/28/10 07:34:00 > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:41 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's lets face it...you are not going to get much more than 12 hp per gal per hour... This is the fuel consumption chart for the 912 ul Bottom scale is 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000 Right scale lb/hp.hr from bottom up is .5, .55, .6, .65 So do I interpret this to say the harder you push a 912 the less fuel it burns per HP per hour? And if I interpolate correctly, is around 4.8 lb/hp.hour Boyd Young MkIII ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's From: "Thom Riddle" Boyd, The image is too small to see. If you have a larger version, please post it. I can't find a BSFC graph for the 912 engines in any recent manuals. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288919#288919 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:51 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's Thom- Lockwood's catalogue has copies of the Rotax fuel comsumption charts. - You'll need your glasses to read them. - ------------------------- ------------------------- - Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------- - Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------------- - FS 447 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:45 AM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Kolb-List: Question: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning A friend of mine who does a lot of research re: aircraft and engines said t hat he has been talking with mechanics who service industrial air cooled en gines in manufacturing plants. He was told that they spray ATF Transmission fluid into the carburators (with the engine running) to decarbon.- Has anyone ever heard of this - or tried it? Arty TrostSandy, Oregon www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:55:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's From: "Thom Riddle" Bill, My 2006-7 Lockwood catalogue shows fuel consumption for the 912 series engines only as a GPH curve. I think the older catalogues showed the BSFC curve like on the 2-stroke engines but I threw them away after I got this "new" one at Lockwood's 912 school around that time. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288926#288926 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:55 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Using ATF Transmission Fluid for Decarboning - It used to be the start of a tune-up on older automobiles to warm up th e engine and spray water or a light oil like ATF into the carb.- I have t ried the water, and the steam will blow all the carbon loose.- It's done at a high idle, and then you make a couple of high RPM runs and watch the f laming carbon go out the tailpipe.- I almost set a corn field on fire doi ng this- big chunks of carbon throwing sparks.- It also gets carbon all o ver the plugs, which then have to be cleaned/changed.- I do not know if a Rotax will put up with this.- Supposedly the oils also work (including M arvel Mystery Oil), but I haven't tried them.- Newer cars have a catalyti c converter, and any oil could ruin the converter. - ------------------------- -------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- -------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- -------------------- FS 447 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:58 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's - Thom- I put my glasses on to read the fine print, and you are right.- They do use different ways to chart the fuel consumption in Lockwood's 200 7-2008 book.- I wonder why Rotax uses the two systems? - ------------------------- ---------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- -----------------Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ---------------- FS 447 ------------------------- ---------------- 50 degrees, and nice ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:49 AM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's I guess its been a tough spring every where. You guy's are putting a lot of effort and thought into something that is only going to be a WAG for your individual planes and the way that you fly them. Perhaps I am a bit strange as I have never found any of the charts and info from Rotax to be much more than a generalization. Perhaps it is the result of my altitude. I also doubt that many of you actually fly at 75% of power, I know that I don't, I seem to require more than a hole in the sky to satisfy my apparently jaded outlook. But its much better than having a P match. Keep up the good work! Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:19 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's Thom- I put my glasses on to read the fine print, and you are right. They do use different ways to chart the fuel consumption in Lockwood's 2007-2008 book. I wonder why Rotax uses the two systems? Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 50 degrees, and nice ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/02/10 07:34:00 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:49 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures We need a new subject to kick around. As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up upright. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:23 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Videos - Larry- Time for more videos.- Get out there!- Please! - do not archive - ------------------------- ------------------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------- Windsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------------- FS 447 ------------------------- ------------------------- 51 degrees and climbing, no wind ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:58 AM PST US From: "Jim Kmet" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Depends ,,,,,,,,, what broke the cable ?. : ) Jim Kmet 912 MK-3C Cookeville, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:08 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures We need a new subject to kick around. As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up upright. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:36 AM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Jim Good point. Lets assume something like corrosion. Are there other things that could fail? Seems like John H uses something like a 5/16 cable. I saw one MKIIIC built with no kidding a 1/4 inch cable (defiantly not recommended). A weld could fail some where. Let me perfectly clear I think a plans built plane that is maintained isn't going to have a problem. Just wondered if flying inverted could save the day if a up elevator cable broke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Kmet To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Depends ,,,,,,,,, what broke the cable ?. : ) Jim Kmet 912 MK-3C Cookeville, TN ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 12:08 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures We need a new subject to kick around. As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up upright. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:53 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Rick/Gang: I use 1/8" up elevator cable, and have since I built my mkIII in 1991. Two years ago I discovered the 3/32 cable stretched considerably, reducing up elevator travel when flying two up in the newest MKIIIx. We changed to 1/8" cable and eliminated the problem. Did not compute difference in weight of the larger cable, but would think it would be negligible and well worth the weight penalty. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Seems like John H uses something like a 5/16 cable. Rick ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Hauck's picture From: "Rex Rodebush" Just opened the March copy of Sport Aviation and on the back page is a great picture of John's plane in Alaska. It's the "member photo of the month". Rex Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288957#288957 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Video From: "cristalclear13" Good video Rick. Thanks for sharing. I actually got to get up in my Kolb last night. The air was still and the sunset gorgeous. Medicine for the soul! do not archive -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288959#288959 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:37 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: check list From: "cristalclear13" A friend helped me with the following lists. Something to start with anyways: START 1. Seat belts FASTENED 2. Fuel Prime / Choke ON 3. Master Switch ON 4. Clear Prop Area 5. Ignition Switch START 6. Choke OFF 7. Intercom Switch ON 8. Radio ON, EMER channel, AWOS, airport freq TAXI / BEFORE TAKEOFF 1. Brakes CHECK 2. Instruments CHECK a. ELT STANDBY b. Altimeter set to airport altitude 3. Flight controls CHECK 4. Doors closed and secure 5. CHT within range BEFORE LANDING 1. Fuel level CHECK 2. Undercarriage CHECK 3. Instruments/switches CHECK 4. Seatbelts Fastened AFTER LANDING 1. ELT check EMER channel to verify NOT activated 2. ELT - OFF SHUT DOWN 1. Radio OFF 2. Intercom Switch OFF 3. Master Switch OFF 4. Ignition Switch OFF and Key OUT -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288961#288961 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:27 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures >As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator c able broke in flight could the day >be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up >upright. >Rick Neilsen >Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC Rick=2C Good idea about a topic change. Regarding losing an up-elevator cable=2C you would NOT need to try to fly inverted. For me=2C I'd think that's a g uaranteed way to die. When I was learning how to fly for my private pilot license=2C my instruc tor Loren (a girl)=2C used to make me practice things such as you describe. You can control the up elevator with trim. You should have seen us spinn ing the trim wheel to get control. All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set t he trim to a slight decending postion=2C and control altitude with engine s peed. For aileron loss=2C we'd open a door. For a left turn=2C push the left d oor way out into the wind (with left rudder). You will turn left!! For a right turn=2C you do the right door (and rudder) the same way. You won't s pin on a dime=2C but you darn sure have "some" control! Back when I was able to fly quite frequently=2C I used to practice these types manuevers. They're kind of fun. At least you'd know what to do if y ou ever needed to. I also liked to practice slight turns=2C right at the verge of stall. I' d set my plane up to fly about as slow as it could=2C stall horn blaring=2C and then do lots of left and right turns. My forward speed was practicall y nothing=2C when viewed from the ground=2C I'd bet! Practicing for all sorts of emergency situations is just plain smart. Th e pilot that survives the best will likely be the one who practiced for the least expected event. IMO Mike Welch MkIII CX _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:09 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hauck's picture Just opened the March copy of Sport Aviation and on the back page is a great picture of John's plane in Alaska. It's the "member photo of the month". Rex *********** Thanks, Rex: I have known about it for a month, but EAA asked me to keep it under my hat until the mag was published this month. That was hard to do. You all have seen that particular photo many times over the years since it was shot in July 2004. Living at the end of the "mail mule train" I'll get my copy in a couple weeks. The digital copy is not up on the EAA web site, but you can see the Feb copy there. john hauck MKIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:11 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's Boyd, The image is too small to see. If you have a larger version, please post it. I can't find a BSFC graph for the 912 engines in any recent manuals. -------- Thom Riddle >>>>>>>>>>>>>> This chart is a part of the pdf attachment. I added the numbers so they could be read easily. Boyd ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:13 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Videos http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/home.php?sk=lf This is the best I could do. It is not Kolb related! (fair warning) I am currently working on the runway and the winters supply of tumble weeds, so that it will be ready for the Kolbs that will be flying in here after Monument Valley. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: william sullivan To: kolb list Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 11:25 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Videos Larry- Time for more videos. Get out there! Please! do not archive Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 51 degrees and climbing, no wind ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/02/10 07:34:00 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:07:07 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fuel Reserve and UL's From: "Thom Riddle" Now I can read it. All this says is that the efficiency peaks at about 5500 RPM, with approximately .45-.48 (eye-ball accuracy) lbs of fuel burned per hour per HP being produced. Since the curve goes up at lower speeds it will consume more fuel per HP produced at all slower speeds. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. - Friedrich Engels Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288969#288969 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:59 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Hauck's picture From: "cristalclear13" John Hauck wrote: > > Living at the end of the "mail mule train" I'll get my copy in a couple > weeks. > > > john hauck > MKIII > Titus, Alabama I thought I lived at the end, but I got my copy today. That picture is so cool! and even cooler that it is in the magazine! -------- Cristal Waters Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=288970#288970 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:36 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day >be saved by flying inverted? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max and use forward pressure on the stick for neutral and down elevator. This way the trim cable holds the normal flight loads. And the elevator cable only the movement loads, where it is much less likely to break or even stretch. Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:04:55 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Videos I am currently working on the runway and the winters supply of tumble weeds, so that it will be ready for the Kolbs that will be flying in here after Monument Valley. Larry >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.. What are you saying,,,, are you planting more tumble weeds... didn't know there was a short supply. Or maybe it will make the landings a bit softer when the winds blows 3 t o 5 down the runway. Do not archive. Boyd Young. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:12 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures At 05:04 PM 3/2/2010, b young wrote: >Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way >back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable >broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max... I set the fixed trim tabs (bent aluminum) for a reasonably slow speed, around 40mph, figuring an otherwise controlled landing at that speed would be survivable. Then I use a bungee to the elevator bellcrank for down trim to offset that for normal flight. -Dana -- +REAL+ programmers use EDLIN to create Windows apps ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:53 PM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures On final into a box canyon airstrip, I lost a rudder cable. With a tailwhee l E-LSA - not a good thing! I was able to land without damage, but it made me decide to start practicing emergency maneuvers. I have a mechanical trim tab (on the elevator) on my Drifter, and I found I was able to land using only the trim tab and throttle - no elevator input. I also practiced landing without a rudder - and, easiest of all, landing w ithout aileron. I still practice these maneuvers each flying season, as wel l as true dead stick landings. It makes me feel much more confident that ev en if I miss something in my pre-flight, I'll probably be able to land. Arty TrostSandy, Oregon www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Tue, 3/2/10, Mike Welch wrote: From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures =0A=0A=0A=0A =0A>As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day >be saved by-flying in verted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and e nd up >upright. =0A-=0A>Rick Neilsen-=0A>Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC=0A-=0A-=0A- Ri ck,=0A-=0A- Good idea about a topic change.- Regarding losing an up-e levator-cable, you would NOT need to try to fly inverted.- For me, I'd think that's a guaranteed way to die.=0A-=0A- When I was learning how t o fly for my private pilot license, my instructor Loren (a girl), used to m ake me practice things such as you describe.- You can control the up elev ator with trim.- You should have seen us spinning the trim wheel to get c ontrol.- All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set the trim to a slight decen ding postion, and control altitude with engine speed.=0A-=0A- For ailer on loss, we'd open a door.- For a left turn, push the left door way out i nto the wind (with left rudder).- You will turn left!!- For a right tur n, you do the right door (and rudder)-the same way.- You won't spin on a dime, but you darn sure have "some" control!=0A-=0A- Back when I-wa s able-to fly quite frequently, I used to practice these types manuevers. - They're kind of fun.- At least you'd know what to do if you ever need ed to.- =0A- I also liked to practice slight turns, right at the verge of stall.- I'd set my plane up to fly about as slow as it could, stall ho rn blaring, and then do lots of left and right turns.- My forward speed w as practically nothing, when viewed from the ground, I'd bet!=0A-=0A- P racticing for all sorts of emergency situations is just plain smart.- The pilot that survives the best will likely be the one who practiced for the least expected event.- IMO=0A-=0AMike Welch=0AMkIII CX=0A-=0A- =0A -=0A-=0A-=0A-=0A=0A Hotmail: Powerful Free email with ect/01/' target='_new'>Get it now.=0A ==================0A=0A ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:38 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Mike W/Gang: What works for a 172 doesn't necessarily work for a Kolb. After you get your mkIII flying, give your 172 emergency procedures a try, then let us know how they worked out for you and your Kolb. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama When I was learning how to fly for my private pilot license, my instructor Loren (a girl), used to make me practice things such as you describe. You can control the up elevator with trim. You should have seen us spinning the trim wheel to get control. All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set the trim to a slight decending postion, and control altitude with engine speed. For aileron loss, we'd open a door. For a left turn, push the left door way out into the wind (with left rudder). You will turn left!! For a right turn, you do the right door (and rudder) the same way. You won't spin on a dime, but you darn sure have "some" control! Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:55:54 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Mike, since the stock MkIII trim is only a spring load on the cable, I doubt it would help much. As for going inverted, that sure doesn't sound appealing. :) BB On 2, Mar 2010, at 3:41 PM, Mike Welch wrote: > >As I was drifting off to sleep last night got wondering if a up elevator cable broke in flight could the day >be saved by flying inverted? Consider a landing where you would drag an engine in the dirt and end up >upright. > > >Rick Neilsen > >Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > > Rick, > > Good idea about a topic change. Regarding losing an up-elevator cable, you would NOT need to try to fly inverted. For me, I'd think that's a guaranteed way to die. > > When I was learning how to fly for my private pilot license, my instructor Loren (a girl), used to make me practice things such as you describe. You can control the up elevator with trim. You should have seen us spinning the trim wheel to get control. All you'd need to do in a Kolb is set the trim to a slight decending postion, and control altitude with engine speed. > > For aileron loss, we'd open a door. For a left turn, push the left door way out into the wind (with left rudder). You will turn left!! For a right turn, you do the right door (and rudder) the same way. You won't spin on a dime, but you darn sure have "some" control! > > Back when I was able to fly quite frequently, I used to practice these types manuevers. They're kind of fun. At least you'd know what to do if you ever needed to. > I also liked to practice slight turns, right at the verge of stall. I'd set my plane up to fly about as slow as it could, stall horn blaring, and then do lots of left and right turns. My forward speed was practically nothing, when viewed from the ground, I'd bet! > > Practicing for all sorts of emergency situations is just plain smart. The pilot that survives the best will likely be the one who practiced for the least expected event. IMO > > Mike Welch > MkIII CX > > > > > > > > > > Hotmail: Powerful Free email with ect/01/' target='_new'>Get it now. > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:57 PM PST US From: "Richard & Martha Neilsen" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Fly-in's Gary, George, Other Florida Kolbs We have been rained out most of the winter. Gary A and I have discussed starting our own Flyin Saturday March 6th at Arcadia, FL. How about it anyone interested????? This is totally dependant on weather. We will check on Friday and give a go/no go. We can reschedule as necessary but lets get together. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ----- Original Message ----- From: zeprep251@aol.com To: NeilsenRM@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Fly-in's Rick, Sounds like a plan to me.I'll confirm on Friday in case of any change. See you then! G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Richard & Martha Neilsen To: zeprep251@aol.com Sent: Tue, Mar 2, 2010 11:59 am Subject: Re: Fly-in's Gary I don't see anything this Saturday. May be we should create one? How about Arcadia? Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: zeprep251@aol.com To: NeilsenRM@comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 7:56 AM Subject: Fly-in's Rick, Looks like a flyable Saturday may happen this week.Any events anywhere? G.Aman ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:58 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Fw: Kolb-List: Videos Sorry, the other link did not work unless you are on Facebook. This one will take you to my Blog where the video can be viewed by anyone. It is flying related, just not a Kolb, but it is fun. http://owyheeflyer.blogspot.com/ As for the tumbleweeds, I am sure that I have plenty, I have done an attempt to poison them, time will tell, but I have $200.00 invested in herbicide. I also overhauled the tie down cables. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:28 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Fly-in's I'd consider flying down with a bit more notice. It's about 465 sm, would take me at least a day to fly down, a day at the flyin, and a day to fly home. Weather is always a factor, and has been terrible in the SE this winter. Let me know your final plans and I'll see what I can work out to get there. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama We have been rained out most of the winter. Gary A and I have discussed starting our own Flyin Saturday March 6th at Arcadia, FL. How about it anyone interested????? This is totally dependant on weather. We will check on Friday and give a go/no go. We can reschedule as necessary but lets get together. Rick Neilsen ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:35 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Videos From: "ces308" Hello all... I did post a couple of new ones if anyone is interested.... http://www.youtube.com/user/ces308 it was a nice day in Mi today.. chris ambrose M3X/jabiru A-2200 103. HRS n327cs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=289001#289001 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:03 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Emergency Procedures Boyd/Gang: That wasn't an original idea. Kolb used redundant cables, then decided it was overkill and eliminated them. john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama Larry Born had an idea where he ran the elevator trim cable all the way back and attached on the elevator horn. That way if the elevator cable broke,,, pull the elevator trim to max and use forward pressure on the stick for neutral and down elevator. This way the trim cable holds the normal flight loads. And the elevator cable only the movement loads, where it is much less likely to break or even stretch. 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