Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:49 AM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (robert bean)
2. 09:31 AM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (Richard & Martha Neilsen)
3. 10:21 AM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (Mike Welch)
4. 10:45 AM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (John Hauck)
5. 10:55 AM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (b young)
6. 11:35 AM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (robert bean)
7. 11:46 AM - Re: Warp Drive prop for sale!!! (albertakolbmk3)
8. 12:24 PM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (Mike Welch)
9. 01:36 PM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (John Hauck)
10. 04:11 PM - Fw: Emailing: Warp drive propeller, Warp Drive propeller failure, Warp Drive prop advisories. (lhaggerty)
11. 04:42 PM - warp drive props (lhaggerty)
12. 05:07 PM - Re: Warp Drive props (william sullivan)
13. 05:22 PM - Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic (zeprep251@aol.com)
14. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive props (lhaggerty)
15. 05:58 PM - Re: MK111Xtra (lhaggerty)
16. 06:33 PM - Re: Warp Drive props (william sullivan)
17. 07:00 PM - Warp Drive Propellers (John Hauck)
18. 07:27 PM - FSII rebuild - aileron hinges (Richard Pike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
Tim, several of us have. It is a fairly simple procedure. Support the cage, remove
the old, slide in the new ones (a little grease helps)
install the wheels temporarily for alignment and mark the sleeve to leg holes.
I used a scribe for the out lines. Remove again,
center punch and drill.
The only difference in landing is a slightly higher perspective at touchdown.
Handling is a little more lively and you can kick the tail easier.
The best benefit IMO is that you can pick it off the ground at barely flying speed
and then accelerate in ground effect. -good for
bumpy or soft fields.
BB
On 22, Mar 2010, at 11:30 PM, timwarlick wrote:
>
> Has anyone bought and installed the tube steel legs in their MK3 Classic? How
long did it take? How much did it change the stance? Any difference on landing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> Tim
> BMW powered Kolb Mk 3 Classic
> Tucson, AZ
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291371#291371
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
Tim/All
A few of us have the older style solid spring steel gear legs. They only
increase the ride height by maybe 1 inch in my Classic. They give a very
smooth ride (reportedly much smoother than the new tubular legs) but can
launch you back in the air if you land hard. I would like the higher stance
but wouldn't change from what I have now. I purchased them used from another
Kolb driver that didn't like them because they were too springy.
Does anyone know if my gear legs can be bent down to give a higher stance.
The wheels tip in at the top now so bending would give a better more
vertical appearance when the plane is loaded.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
----- Original Message -----
From: "timwarlick" <tim.warlick@cox.net>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:30 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic
>
> Has anyone bought and installed the tube steel legs in their MK3 Classic?
> How long did it take? How much did it change the stance? Any difference on
> landing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim
>
> --------
> Tim
> BMW powered Kolb Mk 3 Classic
> Tucson, AZ
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291371#291371
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
tRick=2C
If you bend spring steel past it's point of spring returning point=2C you
create a molecular hazard in the steel's crystalline structure. Failure a
t that bend location is eminent!
For all practical purposes=2C no=2C you can not bend your gear legs. Wel
l=2C you can=2C but it probably wouldn't be worth it.
Here's why: They are presently spring steel. If you bent them THAT much
=2C this would likely induce stress fractures.
So=2C rather than just bend them=2C what you would have to do is heat the
m up=2C and remove the spring treatment (this is often referred to the stee
l losing it's "tempering").
Next=2C you could then bend them to your new shape.
Lastly=2C you would need to reheat treat them to your preferred Rockwell
hardness number.
For all the crap you'd have to go through=2C in a nutshell=2C it would be
tter to buy or make new ones=2C than bend spring steel old ones.
Mike Welch
MkIII
> From: NeilsenRM@comcast.net
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic
> Date: Tue=2C 23 Mar 2010 12:29:22 -0400
>
mcast.net>
>
> Tim/All
>
> A few of us have the older style solid spring steel gear legs. They only
> increase the ride height by maybe 1 inch in my Classic. They give a very
> smooth ride (reportedly much smoother than the new tubular legs) but can
> launch you back in the air if you land hard. I would like the higher stan
ce
> but wouldn't change from what I have now. I purchased them used from anot
her
> Kolb driver that didn't like them because they were too springy.
>
> Does anyone know if my gear legs can be bent down to give a higher stance
.
> The wheels tip in at the top now so bending would give a better more
> vertical appearance when the plane is loaded.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "timwarlick" <tim.warlick@cox.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday=2C March 22=2C 2010 11:30 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic
>
>
> >
> > Has anyone bought and installed the tube steel legs in their MK3 Classi
c?
> > How long did it take? How much did it change the stance? Any difference
on
> > landing?
> >
> > Thanks=2C
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --------
> > Tim
> > BMW powered Kolb Mk 3 Classic
> > Tucson=2C AZ
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291371#291371
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft=92s powerful SPAM protection.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
If you bend spring steel past it's point of spring returning point, you
create a molecular hazard in the steel's crystalline structure. Failure at
that bend location is eminent!
For all the crap you'd have to go through, in a nutshell, it would better
to buy or make new ones, than bend spring steel old ones.
Mike Welch
Mike W/Gang:
The way I fly it is eminent my gear legs get bent. This last set I made up,
after my crash at Muncho Lake, BC, in 2000, has been straightened three
times, if I am remembering correctly. I bent them pretty good last year
trying to takeoff out of Grants, NM, with John B and Bruce C, never
straightened them. They don't look so bad and I will fly this year without
pressing them straight.
To be able to bend the gear leg without failure is one of the reasons I only
treat to around 48RC.
I straighten the bends out of my legs on a press. Made up some 2X4 wooden
blocks to hold them and allow the press to push them well past center. It
always frightens me that they have to go so far past center to get the bend
out of them.
Never had one of my legs fail because I straightened them.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
Has anyone bought and installed the tube steel legs in their MK3
Classic? How long did it take? How much did it change the stance? Any
difference on landing?
Thanks,
Tim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I put the solid tapered steel gear in my mkIII... seems it widened the
stance 3 to 4 inches per side. and made it a bit taller as well. the
gear seems ok... but I have been tempted to build the gear legs and
have them heat treated and give that a try.
my biggest complaint with the steel gear legs is that they bent the
lower end for the wheels at too much of an angle. and it looked squatted
down from the day I mounted the engine.
the plane rides smoother than with the alum gear. and I can't tell any
difference in ground handling. the change over probably took a day.
drilling the gear for the mounting bolt was probably the worse.
boyd Young
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
I learn something new every day. I wasn't aware they made solid steel legs. Was
the diameter smaller to make up for the weight gain?
The hollow ones I bought from TNK are a touch more springy than the aluminum legs
but do not ride as smooth. (hard to explain :)
I've whacked 'em pretty good on occasion but haven't seen any change in shape.
Must be sturdy.
The aluminum legs, of which I have two serviceable pairs sitting on the Kolb shelf,
tend to take a little set no matter what you do to them.
Drilling the TNK supplied versions wasn't a problem. I don't bother with jigging
up on the drill press since I'm notoriously bad at it.
I drill from each side to the middle with a slightly undersized bit and clean the
bore to true with the right size.
This is the idiot proof method.
Wet and dismal here in upstate NY after two weeks of false but welcome spring.
I pulled out my ancient poly tanks and swapped the plumbing to
new ones. After grinding through a formidable stack of IRS forms I'll get them
back in.
BB
On 23, Mar 2010, at 12:29 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
>
> Tim/All
>
> A few of us have the older style solid spring steel gear legs. They only increase
the ride height by maybe 1 inch in my Classic. They give a very smooth ride
(reportedly much smoother than the new tubular legs) but can launch you back
in the air if you land hard. I would like the higher stance but wouldn't change
from what I have now. I purchased them used from another Kolb driver that
didn't like them because they were too springy.
>
> Does anyone know if my gear legs can be bent down to give a higher stance. The
wheels tip in at the top now so bending would give a better more vertical appearance
when the plane is loaded.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "timwarlick" <tim.warlick@cox.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:30 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic
>
>
>>
>> Has anyone bought and installed the tube steel legs in their MK3 Classic? How
long did it take? How much did it change the stance? Any difference on landing?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --------
>> Tim
>> BMW powered Kolb Mk 3 Classic
>> Tucson, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291371#291371
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive prop for sale!!! |
I guess I should have checked the price on these before posting. I lowered the
price to $475.00 obo.
--------
Tony B.
Kolb MKIII C
Rotax 582
C Gearbox 3.00:1
WD 66" 3 Blade Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291461#291461
Message 8
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| Subject: | Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
Mike W/Gang:
The way I fly it is eminent my gear legs get bent.
To be able to bend the gear leg without failure is one of the reasons I onl
y treat to around 48RC.
Never had one of my legs fail because I straightened them.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus=2C Alabama
John H=2C
Bending hardened steel is a relative term=2C I guess I should have said
"It depends on the hardness=2C the degree of bend=2C and some other factors
." So=2C yes=2C I agree=2C you can bend
"some" hardeded steel.
I recall one time when I bought a Mitsubishi 4x4 tractor=2C and got the d
inky 7' backhoe to go with it. I don't treat my construction equipment lig
htly=2C so needless to say=2C I bent the main cylinder the very first day.
45 degree bend on a straight shaft=2C looked like a broken arm!!! This w
as the 1.5" solid steel shaft.
I took the cylinder apart=2C put it in a press=2C bend it back to near pe
rfect......and quietly tooked the backhoe back to my dealer. I said "take
it back=2C and order me the next bigger model". For the additional $3800
=2C I never bent anything on it again.
Mike Welch
_________________________________________________________________
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
Bending hardened steel is a relative term, I guess I should have said
"It depends on the hardness, the degree of bend, and some other factors."
So, yes, I agree, you can bend
"some" hardeded steel.
Mike Welch
Mike W/Gang:No sweat. We are talking about 4130 gear legs on Kolb
aircraft. Most all are using 48rc.Started experimenting with them in 1987.
First ones were 42rc because that is what Maxair was using on their 4130
gear legs. Way to soft. Next set we went to 48rc and never looked back.A
few years later, old Kolb came out with solide 4130 legs. New Kolb came out
with 4130 tubular legs with a bend in order to compensate for the low angle
of the gear leg sockets.john hauckmkIIITitus, Alabama
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fw: Emailing: Warp drive propeller, Warp Drive propeller failure, |
Warp Drive prop advisories.
Warp drive propeller, Warp Drive propeller failure, Warp Drive prop
advisories.
----- Original Message -----
From: lhaggerty
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:02 PM
Subject: Emailing: Warp drive propeller, Warp Drive propeller failure,
Warp Drive prop advisories.
Warp drive propeller, Warp Drive propeller failure, Warp Drive
prop advisories.
Ultralight Store
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Warp drive propeller advisory.
Aircraft: All light aircraft using the Warp Drive
Propeller
Incident Report:
A pilot is flying along at 1500 feet when a severe
vibration develops in his aircraft. Within seconds the vibration stops
and the pilot is required to apply full forward stick just to maintain a
level flight attitude. He is however able to get the craft down safely.
Upon landing he finds that the complete engine assembly is missing from
the rear of his craft. The engine is found some hours later, one blade
is completely missing.
A pilot is flying along at 800 feet, a severe
vibration is felt, immediately followed by a sudden shudder, then
something strikes the main boom of his aircraft. Within seconds the
pilot shuts his engine off and glides to a safe landing. Upon landing he
discovers that one blade of his propeller is missing, an elevator
control cable is partially severed., and the main boom of his craft has
been sliced nearly in half.
A pilot is flying along when he notices a slight
vibration. He lands and asks his local dealer to locate the source of
the vibration. After a thorough preflight the dealer, does a circuit,
lands and indicates that he believes the source of the vibration is the
prop. Once the prop is removed from the craft it is discovered that
several of the blades have started to separate inside the hub.
A pilot takes off, and is flying at about 500 feet
when he feels a sudden severe vibration, a loud bang, followed by and
then his engine quits. Looking to the rear of his aircraft he sees his
engine hanging by the rad hoses, wiring harness and throttle cables. The
pilot is able to land his aircraft safely.
A pilot is test running his aircraft on the ground
when a blade from his prop separates from the hub and flies through the
side of his hangar. Before he can turn his engine off the engine and
reduction drive separate from the airframe and damage his wing.
A pilot is test running his aircraft, he has broken
the engine in, and now has about 3 hours of static testing on the it.
During one of the run ups the prop and reduction drive shaft, exit the
back of the drive.
To date I have over 30 reports of failure on this
prop. The reports are on props of over 64 inches in length, generally
using the 503/532/582 Rotax engine. The area of concern is both in the
separation of the blades, the separation at the base of the blades as
well as the cracking of the hub.
In a recent issue of Sport Flyer - an EAA publication
it was noted that failures of the Warp Drive propeller had occurred when
used with Volkswagen engines. Transport Canada is also investigating an
incident where a prop hub failed -the hub in question was using Warp
Drive blades. Several owners of Kitfox aircraft have also reported
failures of the prop .
Suggestions
Sources indicate that the factory has updated this
prop several times to try to eliminate these problems. If you must fly
on this prop check is before each flight. If it shows any signs of
cracking or separation replace it immediately. Contact the factory for
update information:
Also see Warp Drive Prop failure.
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Message 11
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| Subject: | warp drive props |
Have you seed the stories about warp drive props on Ultralight store .
Contact me and I will forward for any one interested/ Pete
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive props |
- Pete- How old is that article?
-
-------------------------
----------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
----------- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
----------- FS 447
-------------------------
-----------
-
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic |
Rob,
The legs reduce in dia.almost flush with the socket,to about 1/2 "smaller
then taper to the wheel to about 5/8".Not exact dimensions but close.I di
dn't know how rough Blackwater field was until I landed Joe Sable's MK3C
with 4130 tube gear on it.Gonna let some air out of them tires.
G.Aman MK3 C spring steel legs
-----Original Message-----
From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
Sent: Tue, Mar 23, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic
I learn something new every day. I wasn't aware they made solid steel leg
s.
Was the diameter smaller to make up for the weight gain?
The hollow ones I bought from TNK are a touch more springy than the alumin
um
legs but do not ride as smooth. (hard to explain :)
I've whacked 'em pretty good on occasion but haven't seen any change in sh
ape.
Must be sturdy.
The aluminum legs, of which I have two serviceable pairs sitting on the Ko
lb
shelf, tend to take a little set no matter what you do to them.
Drilling the TNK supplied versions wasn't a problem. I don't bother with
jigging up on the drill press since I'm notoriously bad at it.
I drill from each side to the middle with a slightly undersized bit and cl
ean
the bore to true with the right size.
This is the idiot proof method.
Wet and dismal here in upstate NY after two weeks of false but welcome sp
ring.
I pulled out my ancient poly tanks and swapped the plumbing to
new ones. After grinding through a formidable stack of IRS forms I'll get
them
back in.
BB
On 23, Mar 2010, at 12:29 PM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:
<NeilsenRM@comcast.net>
>
> Tim/All
>
> A few of us have the older style solid spring steel gear legs. They only
increase the ride height by maybe 1 inch in my Classic. They give a very
smooth
ride (reportedly much smoother than the new tubular legs) but can launch
you
back in the air if you land hard. I would like the higher stance but would
n't
change from what I have now. I purchased them used from another Kolb drive
r that
didn't like them because they were too springy.
>
> Does anyone know if my gear legs can be bent down to give a higher stanc
e. The
wheels tip in at the top now so bending would give a better more vertical
appearance when the plane is loaded.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "timwarlick" <tim.warlick@cox.net>
> To: <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 11:30 PM
> Subject: Kolb-List: Tube steel legs for Kolb MK3 Classic
>
>
>>
>> Has anyone bought and installed the tube steel legs in their MK3 Classi
c? How
long did it take? How much did it change the stance? Any difference on lan
ding?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> --------
>> Tim
>> BMW powered Kolb Mk 3 Classic
>> Tucson, AZ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291371#291371
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
========================
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========================
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========================
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========================
===========
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive props |
Tue mar 23 2010
----- Original Message -----
From: william sullivan
To: kolb list
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 8:00 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Warp Drive props
Pete- How old is that article?
Bill Sullivan
Windsor Locks, Ct.
FS 447
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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03/23/10 07:33:00
Message 15
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I volunteer to be that passenger Pete
----- Original Message -----
From: Thumb
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK111Xtra
Well you know most of my flying has been solo, the only thing
that comes to mind is the tail will come up sooner and you keep it level
with elevator and the landing are pretty much the same except I carry a
little more air speed on the last 100 feet or so like 50 mph and just
keep pushing the nose down . The Extra just wants to keep flying
compared the Classic, at least that is what my friend said who had
Classic and he has flown mine. If anything it really fly's better with a
passenger.
Thanks Bill
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Vic
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MK111Xtra
Bill
Does your landing technique vary much from dual to solo?
Vic
912 Xtra
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/22/10 07:33:00
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive props |
- I wonder if the hub cracking is only one of their types.- There are a
lot of Warp Drives out there with a good reputation for being tough and lo
ng lasting.- If the design was bad it would have cropped up a long time a
go.- Maybe a bad batch of castings?- I have a different style hub than
the one pictured.
-
-------------------------
------------------ Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
------------------ Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
------------------ FS 447/Warp Drive (a
n old one)
Message 17
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| Subject: | Warp Drive Propellers |
Folks:
I have been flying Warp Drive Propellers for 18 years and over 3,000 hours.
Warp Drive is my prop of choice. All three of my Alaska flights were made
with Warp Drive props. This prop is the only link between my engine and the
air we fly in. I would not leave home without the Warp Drive.
After many years Warp Drive now has a new web site:
http://www.warpdriveinc.com/
Of significant note is the 140,000+ props manufactured and shipped by Warp
Drive from their beginning in 1988 to the end of 2009.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 18
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| Subject: | FSII rebuild - aileron hinges |
Update on the rebuild of the donor wing that came back from Florida to rebuild
the FSII. Used the original tip gussets, and even though the holes were not well
aligned, used them instead of trying to make new ones, since the rivet holes
were not wallowed out and everything could be made to fit well.
But there was a more serious problem: the old aileron hinges were missing, and
from the looks of the drilled out rivet holes, it is not hard to imagine why.
Some of the holes are wallowed out to 5/32", oblong, etc. Thought about trying
to match drill all the holes and go to 5/32" rivets, but that sounded like an
awful lot of work for meager rewards.
Decided instead to just relocate the hinge closest to the wing root, move it in
a few inches to a new spot, forget using a center hinge and use two additional
hinges spaced evenly in between the inboard hinge and the tip instead, but the
wing tip hinge itself was a bit more problematic. You can't really move the
hinge elsewhere, you have to keep it where it belongs. So I copied Vince Nicely's
method of using double loaded hinges that go in two directions, that way
even if your tubing is a bit Swiss cheesed, you still spread the load around pretty
well.
One normal sized hinge in the middle, holes spaced to fit between the original
holes (gag - hate it, but what can you do?) and then a smaller hinge at either
end going to the other part of the tube to eliminate flex bending of the hinge
and add support to the whole arrangement. Not the ideal way, but ideally - the
airplane would never have been rolled up into a ball last year and none of
this would be happening.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=291513#291513
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