Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (Jack B. Hart)
2. 05:29 AM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (John Hauck)
3. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (Jack B. Hart)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (John Hauck)
5. 10:36 AM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (Jack B. Hart)
6. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (John Hauck)
7. 12:26 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (robert bean)
8. 12:38 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers and the condition of the Alvord (Larry Cottrell)
9. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (Mike Welch)
10. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (Jack B. Hart)
11. 05:39 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (robert bean)
12. 06:19 PM - Re: Re: Warp Drive Propellers (Richard Girard)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
Kolbers,
It looks like Warp solved it hub problem in that hub failure reports stopped
in December, 2005.
Jan 2001 - hub failure, Continental 10-240
Jun 2001 - cracked hub, 912s, two blade
Oct 2001 - cracked hub, jabiru, two blade
Dec 2005 - cracked hub, Rotax 582, CH701
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
It looks like Warp solved it hub problem in that hub failure reports
stopped
in December, 2005.
Jan 2001 - hub failure, Continental 10-240
Jun 2001 - cracked hub, 912s, two blade
Oct 2001 - cracked hub, jabiru, two blade
Dec 2005 - cracked hub, Rotax 582, CH701
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack H/Gang:
I did not mention the above incidents in my previous post to the List
because they did not apply to Kolb aircraft. However, since you posted
them, please note they all apply to tractor aircraft and two blade props.
Darly told me the Continental 10-240 was an odd ball engine that broke props
and hubs of most any make or model.
Jabiru has never been able to successfully operate with a composite prop.
VW direct drive has the same problem.
The 912S's went to three blade Warp Drive props and had no more problems, as
did the 582 on the CH701.
Why would http://www.ultralightnews.ca/ publish an article like this after
the fact? Your guess is as good as mine. The article attempts to make Warp
Drive look bad.
john hauck
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
John,
All this goes to show that no one make of propeller is good for all
applications. This is why certified aircraft are certified with one
combination of engine and propeller. If you want to break a crankshaft or
tear up a reduction unit, mount a high inertia stiff propeller.
The warp drive hub failure was not exclusively on tractor installations.
One was reported earlier in 1997 that was mounted on a Long-EZ.
It seems to me that if there is an alternative to a stiff high inertia
propeller that gives comparable flight performance, one should move in that
direction and in doing so reduce the stress loading on engine mounts,
fuselage cage and pilot.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
All this goes to show that no one make of propeller is good for all
applications. This is why certified aircraft are certified with one
combination of engine and propeller. If you want to break a crankshaft or
tear up a reduction unit, mount a high inertia stiff propeller.
The warp drive hub failure was not exclusively on tractor installations.
One was reported earlier in 1997 that was mounted on a Long-EZ.
It seems to me that if there is an alternative to a stiff high inertia
propeller that gives comparable flight performance, one should move in that
direction and in doing so reduce the stress loading on engine mounts,
fuselage cage and pilot.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
*************************
Hi Jack H/Gang:
Not necessarily true. I don't think you could mount a "higher inertia stiff
propeller" than a two blade aluminum prop. Aluminum props probably
outnumber all others on GA aircraft, and a lot of experimentals.
Long-EZ not a tractor installation, but it was a direct drive installation.
Back to my original post in reply to Warp Drive failures, I am interested in
Kolb aircraft, not all the others.
john hauck
Titus, Alabama
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
At 09:38 AM 3/26/10 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>Hi Jack H/Gang:
>
..............
>Long-EZ not a tractor installation, but it was a direct drive installation.
>
>Back to my original post in reply to Warp Drive failures, I am interested in
>Kolb aircraft, not all the others.
>
John,
Then you will be interested to know that some Kolbs mount direct drive
Jabiru engines and some mount Rotax 582's.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
Then you will be interested to know that some Kolbs mount direct drive
Jabiru engines and some mount Rotax 582's.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack H/Gang:
Well...I was aware of that.
My flying buddy, John Williamson and I flew quite a bit together when his
Kolbra was powered by a direct drive Jabiru using a three blade Warp Drive
prop. John never had a prop problem.
I powered my MKIII with a 582 and a three blade Warp Drive prop. I had no
prop problem.
The Jabiru and 582 engines that had problems were trying to fly two blade
Warp Drive props.
What is your point?
john hauck
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
My 70" 2 blade warp drive is pretty low on the list of concerns with me. The logic
for the two blade is
my suzuki makes about 2/3 the hp of a 912. Works pretty good.
The only point I might make, and it may be nothing to worry about, is that once
I was torquing the bolts and
one of the little outboard fellas decided to strip. -no, I didn't overtorque it,
maybe someone else did once?
Anyway, since then I use a lower torque value for those. Not sure what the number
is, I wrote it on the hub.
Not recommending this but it works for me and makes me feel better.
What I may do, just in the spirit of experimentation, is to take a few bolts of
the same diameter and torque them
deliberately to destruction in the vise to see how close to the limit they really
are.
BB
do not archive
On 26, Mar 2010, at 2:17 PM, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> Then you will be interested to know that some Kolbs mount direct drive
> Jabiru engines and some mount Rotax 582's.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
>
>
> Jack H/Gang:
>
> Well...I was aware of that.
>
> My flying buddy, John Williamson and I flew quite a bit together when his
> Kolbra was powered by a direct drive Jabiru using a three blade Warp Drive
> prop. John never had a prop problem.
>
> I powered my MKIII with a 582 and a three blade Warp Drive prop. I had no
> prop problem.
>
> The Jabiru and 582 engines that had problems were trying to fly two blade
> Warp Drive props.
>
> What is your point?
>
> john hauck
> MKIII
> Titus, Alabama
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers and the condition of the Alvord |
You will notice that I have changed the subject line a bit, because I
want to address two issues.
I looked at the pictures of the props that were the problem, and it is
plain to me, (I own a two blade warp) that the entire holding set up has
been changed from the props that were having the problems. The method of
attachment has been changed, so actually any comparison between the two
is not applicable until one of the newer ones happens to develop cracks,
no matter what they are installed on. The ones that were having the
problem looked as though they were cast pieces, the newer ones have a
flat plate that they are secured to, no edges or corners to start a
crack. I have included two pictures of the current configuration of the
prop for your comparison. Quite frankly, I am confused that the article
failed to mention that the blades were the older style. It seems to me
to be a bit like the stuff that the Enquirer likes to publish.
The weather finally cleared a bit, and the wind calmed down, so I
decided to go flying. It was my intent to go to the Alvord (33 air
miles) and take the video camera with me so that I could post a video of
the flight to perhaps get the list out of a bit of the doldrums that
seems to be infecting it. Alas, for what ever reason the white balance
was off so badly that the biggest part of the vid was very surreal and
red, so I scrapped it. The light was bad as I was flying towards the
sun and nothing was illuminated except the ground. The bad white balance
was still off for most of the trip, but it wasn't worth messing with so
you will have to take my word for it.
The temps were 65 degrees on the ground and the wind mostly calm, but at
an altitude of 6000 feet it was as bumpy and thermals were everywhere. I
was hitting GPS speeds of 80 mph, but it was so uncomfortable that I
finally stuck the nose down to get close enough of the ground to take
advantage of the friction to slow the air enough to make it a bit more
comfortable to fly. It was one of those flights where when you land you
are burping for quite a while after. The lake bed is pretty much under
water as this has been a wet year for us, and the creeks that are dry
almost all the year were running bank full.
Larry Cottrell,
HKS700 on a Firestar II about 300 hours on the blade.
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2010 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Warp Drive Propellers
Then you will be interested to know that some Kolbs mount direct
drive
Jabiru engines and some mount Rotax 582's.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack H/Gang:
Well...I was aware of that.
My flying buddy, John Williamson and I flew quite a bit together when
his
Kolbra was powered by a direct drive Jabiru using a three blade Warp
Drive
prop. John never had a prop problem.
I powered my MKIII with a 582 and a three blade Warp Drive prop. I
had no
prop problem.
The Jabiru and 582 engines that had problems were trying to fly two
blade
Warp Drive props.
What is your point?
john hauck
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/21/10 07:33:00
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
Bob=2C
What size torque wrench do you use to torque the bolts on your prop? i.e
.....1/2" drive=2C 3/8" drive=2C 1/4" drive?
The reason I ask is=2C You can find lots of guys on eBay that sell new 1/
4" drive=2C cheapo (chinese) torque wrenches for about $30. Good enough to
get the job done!!! I used it to torques the bolts on my prop=2C and may
never need it again=2C but it worked just fine!
Mike Welch
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Warp Drive Propellers
> From: slyck@frontiernet.net
> Date: Fri=2C 26 Mar 2010 15:24:51 -0400
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
>
> My 70" 2 blade warp drive is pretty low on the list of concerns with me.
The logic for the two blade is
> my suzuki makes about 2/3 the hp of a 912. Works pretty good.
> The only point I might make=2C and it may be nothing to worry about=2C is
that once I was torquing the bolts and
> one of the little outboard fellas decided to strip. -no=2C I didn't overt
orque it=2C maybe someone else did once?
> Anyway=2C since then I use a lower torque value for those. Not sure what
the number is=2C I wrote it on the hub.
>
> Not recommending this but it works for me and makes me feel better.
> What I may do=2C just in the spirit of experimentation=2C is to take a fe
w bolts of the same diameter and torque them
> deliberately to destruction in the vise to see how close to the limit the
y really are.
> BB
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On 26=2C Mar 2010=2C at 2:17 PM=2C John Hauck wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Then you will be interested to know that some Kolbs mount direct drive
> > Jabiru engines and some mount Rotax 582's.
> >
> > Jack B. Hart FF004
> >
> >
> > Jack H/Gang:
> >
> > Well...I was aware of that.
> >
> > My flying buddy=2C John Williamson and I flew quite a bit together when
his
> > Kolbra was powered by a direct drive Jabiru using a three blade Warp Dr
ive
> > prop. John never had a prop problem.
> >
> > I powered my MKIII with a 582 and a three blade Warp Drive prop. I had
no
> > prop problem.
> >
> > The Jabiru and 582 engines that had problems were trying to fly two bla
de
> > Warp Drive props.
> >
> > What is your point?
> >
> > john hauck
> > MKIII
> > Titus=2C Alabama
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb
ox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:O
N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
At 03:24 PM 3/26/10 -0400, you wrote:
>
...................
>one of the little outboard fellas decided to strip. -no, I didn't overtorque
it, maybe someone else did once?
>Anyway, since then I use a lower torque value for those. Not sure what the number
is, I wrote it on the hub.
>
..............
>
Bob,
Can you insert a heli-coil?
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
do not archive
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
How about a big rusty old Ford wrench with a three foot cheater bar?
heh heh
I have a full assortment of torque wrenches, both torsion and "clicker"
types. I was a crazed tool collector for years.
-now finding the ones I have is a challenge.
I tested the one I use on the props for accuracy.
Jack, the hubs I have are pass-through types with a bolt and nut at each
bore, unlike powerfin which uses a threaded half.
BB
On 26, Mar 2010, at 6:53 PM, Mike Welch wrote:
> Bob,
>
> What size torque wrench do you use to torque the bolts on your prop?
i.e.....1/2" drive, 3/8" drive, 1/4" drive?
>
> The reason I ask is, You can find lots of guys on eBay that sell new
1/4" drive, cheapo (chinese) torque wrenches for about $30. Good enough
to get the job done!!! I used it to torques the bolts on my prop, and
may never need it again, but it worked just fine!
>
> Mike Welch
>
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Warp Drive Propellers
> > From: slyck@frontiernet.net
> > Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:24:51 -0400
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> >
> >
> > My 70" 2 blade warp drive is pretty low on the list of concerns with
me. The logic for the two blade is
> > my suzuki makes about 2/3 the hp of a 912. Works pretty good.
> > The only point I might make, and it may be nothing to worry about,
is that once I was torquing the bolts and
> > one of the little outboard fellas decided to strip. -no, I didn't
overtorque it, maybe someone else did once?
> > Anyway, since then I use a lower torque value for those. Not sure
what the number is, I wrote it on the hub.
> >
> > Not recommending this but it works for me and makes me feel better.
> > What I may do, just in the spirit of experimentation, is to take a
few bolts of the same diameter and torque them
> > deliberately to destruction in the vise to see how close to the
limit they really are.
> > BB
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> > On 26, Mar 2010, at 2:17 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> >
<jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
> > >
> > >
> > > Then you will be interested to know that some Kolbs mount direct
drive
> > > Jabiru engines and some mount Rotax 582's.
> > >
> > > Jack B. Hart FF004
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack H/Gang:
> > >
> > > Well...I was aware of that.
> > >
> > > My flying buddy, John Williamson and I flew quite a bit together
when his
> > > Kolbra was powered by a direct drive Jabiru using a three blade
Warp Drive
> > > prop. John never had a prop problem.
> > >
> > > I powered my MKIII with a 582 and a three blade Warp Drive prop. I
had no
> > > prop problem.
> > >
> > > The Jabiru and 582 engines that had problems were trying to fly
two blade
> > > Warp Drive props.
> > >
> > > What is your point?
> > >
> > > john hauck
> > > MKIII
> > > Titus, Alabama
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >====================
> >
> >
> >
>
> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
inbox. Learn More.
>
>
>
>
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Warp Drive Propellers |
Bob, The last time I took my Warp Drive prop apart I put it back together
using MS 21042 nuts instead of the nylocks that came from WD. There's no
mistaking them for a hardware store part and they're half the weight of a
nylock, too.
Rick Girard
On Fri, Mar 26, 2010 at 7:38 PM, robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> How about a big rusty old Ford wrench with a three foot cheater bar? heh
> heh
>
> I have a full assortment of torque wrenches, both torsion and "clicker"
> types. I was a crazed tool collector for years.
> -now finding the ones I have is a challenge.
> I tested the one I use on the props for accuracy.
>
> Jack, the hubs I have are pass-through types with a bolt and nut at each
> bore, unlike powerfin which uses a threaded half.
> BB
>
> On 26, Mar 2010, at 6:53 PM, Mike Welch wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> What size torque wrench do you use to torque the bolts on your prop?
> i.e.....1/2" drive, 3/8" drive, 1/4" drive?
>
> The reason I ask is, You can find lots of guys on eBay that sell new 1/4"
> drive, cheapo (chinese) torque wrenches for about $30. Good enough to get
> the job done!!! I used it to torques the bolts on my prop, and may never
> need it again, but it worked just fine!
>
> Mike Welch
>
> > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Warp Drive Propellers
> > From: slyck@frontiernet.net
> > Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:24:51 -0400
> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com
>
> >
> >
> > My 70" 2 blade warp drive is pretty low on the list of concerns with me.
> The logic for the two blade is
> > my suzuki makes about 2/3 the hp of a 912. Works pretty good.
> > The only point I might make, and it may be nothing to worry about, is
> that once I was torquing the bolts and
>
> > one of the little outboard fellas decided to strip. -no, I didn't
> overtorque it, maybe someone else did once?
> > Anyway, since then I use a lower torque value for those. Not sure what
> the number is, I wrote it on the hub.
> >
> > Not recommending this but it works for me and makes me feel better.
> > What I may do, just in the spirit of experimentation, is to take a few
> bolts of the same diameter and torque them
> > deliberately to destruction in the vise to see how close to the limit
> they really are.
> > BB
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> >
> > On 26, Mar 2010, at 2:17 PM, John Hauck wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Then you will be interested to know that some Kolbs mount direct drive
> > > Jabiru engines and some mount Rotax 582's.
> > >
> > > Jack B. Hart FF004
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack H/Gang:
> > >
> > > Well...I was aware of that.
> > >
> > > My flying buddy, John Williamson and I flew quite a bit together when
> his
> > > Kolbra was powered by a direct drive Jabiru using a three blade Warp
> Drive
> > > prop. John never had a prop problem.
> > >
> > > I powered my MKIII with a 582 and a three blade Warp Drive prop. I had
> no
> > > prop problem.
> > >
> > > The Jabiru and 582 engines that had problems were trying to fly two
> blade
> > > Warp Drive props.
> > >
> > > What is your point?
> > >
> > > john hauck
> > > MKIII
> > > Titus, Alabama
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >====================
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> inbox. Learn More.<http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_1>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|