---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/05/10: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:00 AM - Re: Mikuni Carburator (Dana Hague) 2. 04:39 AM - Re: Mikuni Carburator (zeprep251@aol.com) 3. 06:06 AM - Re: my father was john ratcliffe (clrprop) 4. 07:23 AM - Re: Mikuni Carburator (George Myers) 5. 10:39 AM - Seats for a MkIIIC (Richard Girard) 6. 12:13 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Larry Cottrell) 7. 01:03 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Richard Girard) 8. 01:34 PM - Seats for a MkIIIC (b young) 9. 02:18 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (pj.ladd) 10. 03:00 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Mike Welch) 11. 03:21 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (russ kinne) 12. 04:45 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Richard Girard) 13. 04:51 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC...reply () 14. 04:58 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Dana Hague) 15. 05:25 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (zeprep251@aol.com) 16. 05:33 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (ASchlem) 17. 05:44 PM - Re: Mikuni Carburator (ASchlem) 18. 05:45 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC...reply (Richard Girard) 19. 05:49 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (ASchlem) 20. 05:51 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Richard Girard) 21. 06:44 PM - Fire Fly Flaps (lhaggerty) 22. 06:44 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Richard Pike) 23. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Richard Girard) 24. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Richard Girard) 25. 07:30 PM - Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (ASchlem) 26. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC (Jack B. Hart) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:37 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mikuni Carburator At 12:06 AM 4/5/2010, DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: > > Has anyone tried to put a mikuni carb on a rotax 447 or 503? Just > curious as It seems rotax use bing and Kawasaki and Cayuna use the Mikuni. The Mikuni is reportedly the better carburetor, but liability scared them out of the aviation market. You could use a Mikuni and it would doubtless work quite well, but you'd be on your own as far as jetting goes. -Dana -- Q: Why is it that New Jersey got all the toxic waste dumps and California got all the lawyers? A: New Jersey had first choice. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mikuni Carburator From: zeprep251@aol.com Ed, Must be some,JBM makes a carb socket that goes from Mikuni to Rotax. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: DAquaNut@aol.com Sent: Mon, Apr 5, 2010 12:06 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mikuni Carburator List: Has anyone tried to put a mikuni carb on a rotax 447 or 503? Just curi ous as It seems rotax use bing and Kawasaki and Cayuna use the Mikuni. Ed Diebel FF # 62 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:20 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: my father was john ratcliffe From: "clrprop" I'm very sorry for your loss Shawn. I lost my Dad on Jan. 27th. Here is an e-mail forwarded to me : Last Tuesday (or Wed)AM I went out to JZI to pat my Luscombe. While I was there a John Racliffe drove up in a pickup wi9th a 8-10 trailer behind him. I introduced myself and he said he had a Kolb LSA in the trailer and he was going to rent Hangar 10 (the other side of my row). He said he needed to fly off his hours (a FAA requirement I think). We talked airplanes for a couple of minutes, then I left. Apparently the next morning he put the Kolb together and started flying there at JZI staying near (east of) the runway (4/22). He must have crashed about 11 AM. Apparently no one heard his engine and started a check, then called 911. Rescue vehicles included a airboat that had to be used to get to the crash site. I was told by a local pilot that he got slow, stalled and spun to the pluff mud. TV photo showed Kolb on its back, nose down. Pilot died of chest and head injuries. Sad. Keath T Kolb Mark IIIC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293031#293031 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:23:24 AM PST US From: "George Myers" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Mikuni Carburator They have a dual mikuni carb setup for a 503 on ebay. Item number: 400113392115 Starting @ 49.95. George From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Hague Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 5:55 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Mikuni Carburator At 12:06 AM 4/5/2010, DAquaNut@aol.com wrote: Has anyone tried to put a mikuni carb on a rotax 447 or 503? Just curious as It seems rotax use bing and Kawasaki and Cayuna use the Mikuni. The Mikuni is reportedly the better carburetor, but liability scared them out of the aviation market. You could use a Mikuni and it would doubtless work quite well, but you'd be on your own as far as jetting goes. -Dana -- Q: Why is it that New Jersey got all the toxic waste dumps and California got all the lawyers? A: New Jersey had first choice. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:39:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC From: Richard Girard Has anyone come up with a seat for the Mk IIIC that offer more support than the sling seat? I'm getting cramps in my right thigh and haven't been able to find a position that relieves cramp. I've been looking at the molded seats at Jegs and thought I might as well inquire of the forum members to see if anyone else has already come up with better seating. I have the upholstery insert from Kolb that velcros in but it doesn't offer anything but a little padding. This is the seat I've been thinking about http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro-High-Back-Race-Seats-Seat-Covers/763085/10002/-1 Thanks, Rick Girard do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:13:30 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC Why not just put an aluminum sheet across the bottom and then use the sling for the back. You could could then use Tempra (type) foam for the bottom. Much lighter. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Girard To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC Has anyone come up with a seat for the Mk IIIC that offer more support than the sling seat? I'm getting cramps in my right thigh and haven't been able to find a position that relieves cramp. I've been looking at the molded seats at Jegs and thought I might as well inquire of the forum members to see if anyone else has already come up with better seating. I have the upholstery insert from Kolb that velcros in but it doesn't offer anything but a little padding. This is the seat I've been thinking about http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro-High-Back-Race-Seats-Seat-Covers/7630 85/10002/-1 Thanks, Rick Girard do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 04/05/10 06:32:00 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC From: Richard Girard I almost feel guilty saying this, but my leg hurt so much after 45 minutes on Saturday, I really don't care if a seat weighs 20lb. Lightness doesn't do me any good if I can't fly for pain. Getting rid of the sling back is the second objective. I've straightened the top bar so many times it has all the stiffness of warm dog exhaust. Rick do not archive On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > Why not just put an aluminum sheet across the bottom and then use the > sling for the back. You could could then use Tempra (type) foam for the > bottom. Much lighter. > Larry > > Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, > which includes my email address. > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Richard Girard > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, April 05, 2010 11:37 AM > *Subject:* Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC > > Has anyone come up with a seat for the Mk IIIC that offer more support than > the sling seat? I'm getting cramps in my right thigh and haven't been able > to find a position that relieves cramp. I've been looking at the molded > seats at Jegs and thought I might as well inquire of the forum members to > see if anyone else has already come up with better seating. I have the > upholstery insert from Kolb that velcros in but it doesn't offer anything > but a little padding. > This is the seat I've been thinking about > > > http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro-High-Back-Race-Seats-Seat-Covers/763085/10002/-1 > > > Thanks, > Rick Girard > do not archive > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > ------------------------------ > - Release Date: 04/05/10 06:32:00 > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:34:00 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC Has anyone come up with a seat for the Mk IIIC that offer more support than the sling seat? Thanks, Rick Girard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rick I bought some seats that come out of a piper tomahawk. there were some rollers used for moving the for and aft, that I removed. and the pins that hold the seat in the for and aft position,,, I use to take the seat in and out quickly. they couple into some brackets I made and welded in place. just for fun. the fbo had a seat out of a Cessna 150 that I trial fit. they would have been a second choice. I cant remember now what type of brackets I would have had to build. I know I have taken some pictures but cant find them right a way. probably on the old computer. Boyd Young Kolb mkIII ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:27 PM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC Getting rid of the sling back is the second objective. I've straightened the....> dont you guys have the upholstered seats that Kolb issued. Very smart with the logo. As for bending the bar....what do you do?. i weigh 210 lbs straight out of the shower so I reckon at least another 20lbs for clothes and I couldn`t bend the bar if I jumped on it. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:00:41 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC Rick=2C I had one of those molded plastic seats that Jeg's sells. It was the sta ndard issue seat that the Wizard ultralight (looks like a Quicksilver) came with. The seat is double walled=2C very sturdy=2C and also quite heavy. It wou ld be a chalenge to get it installed into your MkIII properly=2C but I know you could handle it. However!!!!..... Personally=2C if it were me=2C I'd be looking to make my own custom fiber glass drop-in shell. You could then use the Kolb seat cushion=2C and it ought to work "mightly f ine". (Essentially=2C this is what TNK sells for the Xtra. That might also be a possibility=2C but it may need some trimming=2C too.) I'd probably drop the actual seat mold shell down a little=2C so I could come back in with a glued in layer of the temperfoam. Although you might be able to use that Jeg's seat=2C I think you'd have t o cut it up quite a bit=2C in addition to some MkIII surgery. Mike Welch MkIII Subject: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com Has anyone come up with a seat for the Mk IIIC that offer more support than the sling seat? I'm getting cramps in my right thigh and haven't been able to find a position that relieves cramp. I've been looking at the molded se ats at Jegs and thought I might as well inquire of the forum members to see if anyone else has already come up with better seating. I have the upholst ery insert from Kolb that velcros in but it doesn't offer anything but a li ttle padding. This is the seat I've been thinking about http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro-High-Back-Race-Seats-Seat-Covers/763085 /10002/-1 Thanks=2C Rick Girard do not archive _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inb ox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_1 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:50 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC In re seats -- Ken Brock made up a seat-tank years ago that held 5 gallons or more. Sounds like a good idea, tho it must be COLD in the winter. Someone must have tried this? Good or bad? do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC From: Richard Girard Boyd, Real aircraft seats, well that's one I hadn't thought of. Pat, We're about the same weight, I wonder if my Mk III being an early model, the tubing is a thinner wall than what's made now. All I know is that it's been bending since I bought the airplane and I'm tired of straightening it. Mike, I was afraid of that, simple solutions rarely are. Russ, There's a brace behind the seat that would most likely prevent using the Brock seat. I thank you all, I shall have to do some more research. Rick do not archive On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 5:18 PM, russ kinne wrote: > > In re seats -- Ken Brock made up a seat-tank years ago that held 5 gallons > or more. Sounds like a good idea, tho it must be COLD in the winter. > Someone must have tried this? Good or bad? > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:06 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC...reply My Mark III Classic is very comfortable with homemade seats. I used the Kolb furnished black sling seat material for a 2" foam cushion cover. The bottom and back sides are aluminum extrusions like on a motorhome awning and the seat and back are of .020 sheet stock. I used a Target stadium chair for the bottom. The aluminum sits on the fuselage tubes and the back rests against a 2" alum extrusion to hold the seat forward of the frame that goes right in front of the two gas tanks. Two pins hold each one in place so it is easy to get them out to work on brakes and things. The cost was around $30 using surplus aluminum sheet and extrusion. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:45 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC At 06:18 PM 4/5/2010, russ kinne wrote: > >In re seats -- Ken Brock made up a seat-tank years ago that held 5 >gallons or more. Sounds like a good idea, tho it must be COLD in the >winter. >Someone must have tried this? Good or bad? I almost bought a seat tank for my UltraStar, but then I sat in one in my friend's gyrocopter. I don't know how cold it is, but it's not terribly comfortable. Decided to keep the existing (comfortable) fiberglass seat and install a custom aluminum tank behind the seat. -Dana -- Assassins do it from behind. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC From: zeprep251@aol.com Rick, I'll take some pictures of the set up in my MK-3,not of my doing but comfo rtable.I think Russ Kinne was a passenger one time. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Richard Girard Sent: Mon, Apr 5, 2010 1:37 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC Has anyone come up with a seat for the Mk IIIC that offer more support tha n the sling seat? I'm getting cramps in my right thigh and haven't been ab le to find a position that relieves cramp. I've been looking at the molded seats at Jegs and thought I might as well inquire of the forum members to see if anyone else has already come up with better seating. I have the up holstery insert from Kolb that velcros in but it doesn't offer anything bu t a little padding. This is the seat I've been thinking about http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro-High-Back-Race-Seats-Seat-Covers/76308 5/10002/-1 Thanks, Rick Girard do not archive ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:19 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC From: "ASchlem" There is a post out there where a guy used seats out of a Rans S6/7. He had some good photos of the install. Also his setup was adjustable. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293118#293118 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:05 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Mikuni Carburator From: "ASchlem" I have a set of mikuni superBN's (pumper type) that i'm going to use for inverted flight setup on my Rans S10. There is a wealth of knowlege about them on the Yahoo Sakota group. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293120#293120 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC...reply From: Richard Girard I'm intrigued by your description. Do you have any pictures? Rick do not archive On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 6:50 PM, wrote: > > My Mark III Classic is very comfortable with homemade seats. I used the > Kolb furnished black sling seat material for a 2" foam cushion cover. The > bottom and back sides are aluminum extrusions like on a motorhome awning and > the seat and back are of .020 sheet stock. I used a Target stadium chair > for the bottom. The aluminum sits on the fuselage tubes and the back rests > against a 2" alum extrusion to hold the seat forward of the frame that goes > right in front of the two gas tanks. Two pins hold each one in place so it > is easy to get them out to work on brakes and things. The cost was around > $30 using surplus aluminum sheet and extrusion. > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:19 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC From: "ASchlem" Here is a link to his site. http://www.kilocharlie.us/Kolb%20history.htm The seat info is about half way down the page Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293122#293122 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC From: Richard Girard Thanks, I appreciate it. Rick do not archive On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:23 PM, wrote: > Rick, > I'll take some pictures of the set up in my MK-3,not of my doing but > comfortable.I think Russ Kinne > was a passenger one time. > G.Aman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Girard > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Mon, Apr 5, 2010 1:37 pm > Subject: Kolb-List: Seats for a MkIIIC > > Has anyone come up with a seat for the Mk IIIC that offer more support > than the sling seat? I'm getting cramps in my right thigh and haven't been > able to find a position that relieves cramp. I've been looking at the molded > seats at Jegs and thought I might as well inquire of the forum members to > see if anyone else has already come up with better seating. I have the > upholstery insert from Kolb that velcros in but it doesn't offer anything > but a little padding. > This is the seat I've been thinking about > > > http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/JEGS-Pro-High-Back-Race-Seats-Seat-Covers/763085/10002/-1 > > > Thanks, > Rick Girard > do not archive > > * > > > =================================== > > ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > =================================== > > ttp://forums.matronics.com > > =================================== > > ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > =================================== > > * > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:04 PM PST US From: "lhaggerty" Subject: Kolb-List: Fire Fly Flaps I can't seem to find airspeed limits when using flaperons, anyone.??? Pete ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:04 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC From: "Richard Pike" I know what ya mean about bending that tube. I replaced mine with one that had a LOT more wall thickness. Cured that - Also know what ya mean about cutting off circulation to the leg. I fit pretty good, no problems, but the Good Lookin' Old Poop needs a pad under her leg over the front tube, the stock seat thing just doesn't fit right for her. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293135#293135 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC From: Richard Girard You don't post your name but I do appreciate the lead, so thanks ASchlem. Rick do not archive On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 7:48 PM, ASchlem wrote: > > Here is a link to his site. http://www.kilocharlie.us/Kolb%20history.htmThe seat info is about half way down the page > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293122#293122 > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC From: Richard Girard Thanks, Richard. Rick On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:43 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > I know what ya mean about bending that tube. I replaced mine with one that > had a LOT more wall thickness. Cured that - > > Also know what ya mean about cutting off circulation to the leg. I fit > pretty good, no problems, but the Good Lookin' Old Poop needs a pad under > her leg over the front tube, the stock seat thing just doesn't fit right for > her. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293135#293135 > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:51 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC From: "ASchlem" You don't post your name but I do appreciate the lead, so thanks ASchlem Sorry, new to the group. My name is Aaron. I'm working on a MarkIIIX Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293143#293143 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:08 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Seats for a MkIIIC At 06:43 PM 4/5/10 -0700, you wrote: > > Also know what ya mean about cutting off circulation to the leg. I fit pretty good, no problems, but the Good Lookin' Old Poop needs a pad under her leg over the front tube, the stock seat thing just doesn't fit right for her. > Richard, & Richard, I like my full sling seat. I am short legged, and so at first I used a lot of padding to move my self forward so that I could reach the rudder pedals. Then I realized that, if I released the material from the lower rear cross tube and hiked up the back it would form a true sling seat that would automatically slide me forward. It almost worked too well, in that I slipped too far forward, and I had to remember to push my self back in the seat. Although I could reach the rudder pedals ok, I found that after an hour flight, I staggered like a drunk upon arrival. The front cross piece was cutting into the back of my legs and cutting off the circulation. To get around this problem I made a cheek board and some padding to raise my cheeks a sufficient amount to get the pressure off my legs and to prevent the problem. Currently, the whole works weighs a little over 1.5 pounds. A true sling seat has a tendency to let your rear end swing around a little in rough air. I found a five point set belt and shoulder harness seems to be the answer to this problem, and it also prevents you from sliding forward during the flight. How the cheek board was made can be seen at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly37.html FWIW Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.