Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:24 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/12/10 (Bob Green)
2. 06:49 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location (Mike Welch)
3. 08:43 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location (b young)
4. 01:03 PM - antenna's (Larry Cottrell)
5. 04:59 PM - Invitation from George RAndolph (George RAndolph)
6. 06:52 PM - Re: MkIII antenna location (Richard Girard)
7. 08:32 PM - lost my subscription (Mike Welch)
Message 1
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Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/12/10 |
Craig, Congratulations!!! Please contact me off list so I can correspond with
you. I am also building a MKIIIX and plan to use the VW re-drive.
Thanks
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kolb-List Digest Server
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:58 AM
Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/12/10
*
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Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 04/12/10: 9
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:45 AM - Re: VG's............... (David Lucas)
2. 01:46 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location ()
3. 02:24 AM - Re: Re: engine noise (pj.ladd)
4. 04:50 AM - Re: First Flight (zeprep251@aol.com)
5. 05:37 AM - Re: First Flight (Mike Welch)
6. 06:14 AM - Lakeland Weather (John Hauck)
7. 06:31 AM - Re: First Flight (Jimmy Young)
8. 07:37 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location (b young)
9. 12:11 PM - Re: First Flight (zeprep251@AOL.COM)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 01:45:29 AM PST US
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VG's...............
From: "David Lucas" <d_a_lucas@hotmail.com>
> But it also had eight VGs spacer out on the wing ahead of the flaps. What do
you make of that?
>
Just a FYI type update. I was at the AERO 2010 expo at Friedrichshafen in Southern
Germany last week and got talking with VG manufacturer 'Micro Aerodynamics'
who explained that the VG's ahead of the flap area on the Boeing are to counteract
and delay the onset of a shock wave which in turn sets off a Dutch Roll
type instability that all swept wing aircraft are prone to. Apparently the venerable
B52 bomber had them also, and with a bit of poetic license there were
52 per side.
The ones ahead of the ailerons are for keeping the airflow attached at low speeds,
relatively speaking, just like in a Kolb. (there, now it's Kolb related).
David.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293930#293930
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 01:46:11 AM PST US
From: <aoldman@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location
Mine sits in the middle of the pod pointing upwards. Its connected to a
hand held and works well. No noise . It was fitted by a RNZAF aircraft
fitter so I have no details of its instillation.
Regards
Downunder
MK111c
503
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 12:35 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location
Hi gang,
I'm currious where those of you with aircraft radios located your
antenna. I will be using an Icom A200 panel mount radio, and I'm
pondering where the best place would be to locate the antenna.
It seems like everywhere I think of, there is a logical reason NOT
to put it there!!
I have an idea where I might install it, but I wanted to hear where
others have put there's, first.
Oh yeah. I made one of those dipole antennas that Scott shared
with us. (actually, I made three. I figured it isn't that much trouble
to make more than one, while I was at it.)
Although I mentioned the MkIII in the heading, as long as you have a
permanent mount antenna on any Kolb airplane, I'd like to hear from you.
(even you lurkers....if your radio works good. If your radio doesn't
work well, keep lurking :-) )
Mike Welch
MkIII
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________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 02:24:46 AM PST US
From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: engine noise
still shy of the 20,000FD recommended above.>>
Thanks for your help.
Pat
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 04:50:14 AM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight
From: zeprep251@aol.com
Would that be uncle Craig of breakfast fame at MV?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:45 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight
> I flew my Mark 111 Xtra for the first time tonight. I need to do a few
adjustments but it was a great flight. I plan to be at Sun n Fun Friday
and Saturday. Hope to see some of you there...
>
> --------
> Craig Spoke
> Mark 111 Xtra
> VW Redrive
> Lillian, AL
Craig:
Congrats, my friend.
john hauck
Titus, Alabama
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________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 05:37:17 AM PST US
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: First Flight
>Would that be uncle Craig of breakfast fame at MV?
>G.Aman
Gary=2C
No=2C this Craig is not Uncle Craig. Uncle Craig has been flying his MkI
II Xtra for quite a long time now.
Last I heard=2C he was installing an EFIS=2C or some kind of electronic mon
itoring system=2C plus=2C as usual=2C
more fiberglass parts. (frankly=2C I miss seeing his latest projects)
Craig Spoke is a new MkIII Xtra builder/pilot. He posts on the Kolb-list
every once in a while.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
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________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 06:14:42 AM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Lakeland Weather
Morning Gang:
Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday weather in Lakeland looks good, except for
wind.
Tuesday weather:
Tuesday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 83. East northeast wind between 6
and 15 mph, with gusts as high as 21 mph.
Today and Wednesday are much the same.
I'll plan on getting out of here at first light in the morning. Hopefully,
beat most the wind before it gets up in the afternoon. Right now at 0800,
it is dead calm. I I can get up and get loaded, get in the air by 0500,
I'll be at LAL before noon. It is a 412 mile flight direct, but I will
deviate a little to pick up fuel in Perry, FL. Other than that stop, I'll
only land when the urgent need arises.
Looking forward to seeing you all at Lakeland.
Save me a good spot by the gate to put up my tent, Rick. Getting too old to
push the mkIII through the grass. ;-)
john hauck
Titus, Alabama
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 06:31:24 AM PST US
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight
From: "Jimmy Young" <jdy100@comcast.net>
Craig,
That is a great accomplishment! Looking forward to hearing more about your engine's
performance. What type VW, redrive, carb, etc.?
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293947#293947
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 07:37:19 AM PST US
From: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location
Although I mentioned the MkIII in the heading, as long as you have a
permanent mount antenna on any Kolb airplane
Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Mike
I have a dipole made from the end of the piece of coax. The dipole is on
the inside of the nosecone, the center part of the coax runs up the left
side and across the top, while the braid runs across the bottom. The
location was changed a few times to get the best swr with an antenna
analyzer.
www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html
Boyd Young
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 12:11:35 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight
From: zeprep251@AOL.COM
Thanks Mike. Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 8:36 am
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: First Flight
>Would that be uncle Craig of breakfast fame at MV?
>G.Aman
Gary,
No, this Craig is not Uncle Craig. Uncle Craig has been flying his MkII
I Xtra for quite a long time now.
Last I heard, he was installing an EFIS, or some kind of electronic monito
ring system, plus, as usual,
more fiberglass parts. (frankly, I miss seeing his latest projects)
Craig Spoke is a new MkIII Xtra builder/pilot. He posts on the Kolb-lis
t every once in a while.
Mike Welch
MkIII CX
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your
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Subject: | MkIII antenna location |
Boyd=2C
Interesting=2C yet simple antenna. I noticed you didn't mention a balun
=2C though. Is there a reason why you don't have one? Is a good SWR readi
ng sufficient information to say you don't need one? I don't know=2C I'm j
ust asking.
I'm still not too pleased with my choices of where I have to locate my an
tenna on my MkIII. I'm considering a) the nosecone area b) way up hi
gh=2C above the wing's center section c) mounted on the wing's leading
edge d) under rear portion of cabin surface
a) if I mount it (the dipole antenna) in the nosecone=2C one of the rods
poke out in my view through the windscreen. Not acceptable=2C IMO. I mig
ht be able to tilt it to where the upper rod is completely contained inside
the nosecone=2C and the lower rod would point more horizontally toward the
rear=2C but I give up reception in this configuration.
b) up top=2C this might be one of the better locations=2C but a dipole ant
enna's dimensions don't seen to work well. If I go with this location=2C I
would be better to go with a simple mast & and groundplane. The problem i
s...there may not be sufficient area to locate a proper ground- plane. hmm
mm?
c) mounted on the leading edge of a wing=2C whiskers pointing rearward. t
his would be the easiest & work the best!!! No modification to the antenn
a at all. may also look the dumbest place to put it. since the whiskers
could point rearward=2C they wouldn't be likely to be walked into=2C etc.
=2C but how dumb would it look to have an antenna on a wing? more hmmm?
BTW=2C if I did locate it here=2C I'd make a special rotatable mount=2C w
here the antenna could be rotated out of the way for storage. I've got a d
esign in mind where you remove a pin=2C spin the antenna out of the way=2C
and lock it in place with the pin. Still not my favorite spot!!!!!
d) under rear fuselage area. this may be one of the best places to locate
it. the question is whether I can fit it in properly. I may not be able
to stay with the dipole if I go here. If I can create a decent groundplane
out of 1/2" wide copper foil=2C and place the groundplane correctly on the
inside of the center of the cabin=2C then I could extend the one
antenna mast out and rearward. I think I'll investigate this one more.
Time to join the Matronics aeroelectrics forum and bug Bob Nuchols. He'd
know what to do.
Thanks for your input=2C guys.
Mike Welch
MkIII
From: by0ung@brigham.net
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location
Although I mentioned the MkIII in the heading=2C as long as you have a pe
rmanent mount antenna on any Kolb airplane
Mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Mike
I have a dipole made from the end of the piece of coax. The dipole is on
the inside of the nosecone=2C the center part of the coax runs up the le
ft side and across the top=2C while the braid runs across the bottom. T
he location was changed a few times to get the best swr with an antenna ana
lyzer.
www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html
Boyd Young
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Subject: | MkIII antenna location |
Boyd,
Interesting, yet simple antenna. I noticed you didn't mention a balun,
though. Is there a reason why you don't have one? Is a good SWR reading
sufficient information to say you don't need one? I don't know, I'm just
asking.
I'm still not too pleased with my choices of where I have to locate my
antenna on my MkIII. I'm considering a) the nosecone area b) way up
high, above the wing's center section c) mounted on the wing's leading
edge d) under rear portion of cabin surface
Mike Welch
MkIII
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mike
No I did not mention a balun, (Balanced to un balanced antenna adapter)
every piece of wire will have a resonant frequency. And if you can cut the
wire to make it resonant at the frequency you want, keep the band width
wide or narrow enough for the desired application, make it reject unwanted
signals or noise. You have done a good job. The process of antenna
building can be as much of an art as it is a science. Go to your browser
and type in fractal antenna if you check out several of the links you will
see many different designs, they all work well. You could probably design
one that would be 6 inches or less in any dimension, and place it in the
front of your nose cone. You could start with a piece of circuit board,
strip all the conductor off one side, then start masking the other side
into one of the designs you could find links for. You may have to try
several in order to find one that tunes to the proper frequency, and has the
band width and swr you need. The links I followed showed the 50 ohm coax
connected at the center with no balun. One note, if you painted the
nosecone with polly fiber silver paint, put the antenna on the outside.
Instead of a full surface ground plane, the braid on my coax antenna is the
ground plane. You can use the metal structure of the plane as the ground
plane, and only use a wire whip. If I were to use an outside antenna on the
kolb it would be a whip antenna mounted on the rear part of the nosecone in
the center pointed down for about 6 to 8 inches then bent back on about a 45
to 60 deg angle. You could mount it further back but would have to come up
with something for support. Someone mentioned a rubber duck mounted on the
bottom. should work fine. If the antenna whip parallels too close to a
metal structure you will get too much radiation resistance, and not be able
to tune the antenna for best swr. The other antenna location would be on
top of the gap seal. Making sure the antenna was not too close to the
engine and could not get tangled in the prop. I am just thinking out loud
here. You could probably take an antenna like mine and hot glue it to a
piece of cardboard in one of the designs you fine in one of the links. In
the early days the designers would put up as loooong a wire as they could
fit in the property. Thinking that if they were to put electrons in the
air,,, the more surface area in the air the better, and later
discovered a resonant wire, different length for different frequencies,
worked much better. And this works for the transmitter as well as the
receiver.
All you wanted to know and then some.
Boyd Young
mkIII
ham radio N7WFM
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Mike,
I have done a bit of playing around with antenna's on both a Mark III
and my current Firestar. The first Mark III that I had, had a 1/8 th
wave ( I assume since it was very short ) on the top of the nose cone.
It worked some of the time, but was never good enough to keep the tower
operators happy, and it had a regular aircraft radio in it. Nav com, I
believe. I sold that aircraft, so its not a problem any more. I kept my
Firestar and only run an I Com hand held in it. My antenna system is
the same set up as that made by R Pike, although both were developed
independently. My ground plane is riveted to the bottom of the cage
tubes, and is in a V shape. If I had talked to Richard I would have
glued a round plate to the fabric and possibly would have had a more
efficient antenna. I have also experimented with the location and found
that mine seems to work the best on the bottom of the cage. I put it on
top of the wind screen just below the level of the wing and the
performance was bad enough that I immediately put it back on the bottom.
As you can see (a bit fuzzy ) I put a bend in it so that it wasn't
dragging on the ground, but the length is 23 1/2 inch. That is good
enough that I can talk to the wife ( last trip ) at 29 miles. She can
hear me better if I am flying away from her, remember my ground plane is
in a V with the widest end pointed to the rear. This is not by the way
line of sight, the house is down in a low spot. Now John told you about
his placement and antenna in an earlier post. Last year when he was
flying in we talked at 60 miles, He was up I think 9000 feet, and I had
no trouble hearing or understanding him.
I personally liked the antenna construction that was sent to you, The V
type with the balun, but I can find no where to put one on my plane that
I like. So I guess I will stick with what I have. Almost anything will
work well enough to talk to a tower at the normal 5 mile range, even a
rubber duck.
Larry
Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history,
which includes my email address.
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Subject: | Invitation from George RAndolph |
See my latest photos, updates and friends on Bebo.
Click to view my profile.
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Please note: if you are not yet a Bebo member, you must register first.
.......................................................................
This email was sent to you at the direct request of George RAndolph <GeoR38@aol.com>.
You have not been added to a mailing list.
If you would prefer not to receive invitations from ANY Bebo members please click here - http://www.bebo.com/T/2.2Bafl2JiTgmc9xjMQ0QT4A/unsub/10507319515a106017233
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Subject: | Re: MkIII antenna location |
Mike, Boyd, all, Another great source of strictly antenna information is Bo
b
Weir, who writes a regular monthly column in "Kitplanes". He publishes a
manual for building dipoles for aircraft. It comes with a roll of copper
foil and a bag of baluns.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:42 AM, b young <by0ung@brigham.net> wrote:
> Boyd,
>
> Interesting, yet simple antenna. I noticed you didn't mention a balun,
> though. Is there a reason why you don't have one? Is a good SWR reading
> sufficient information to say you don't need one? I don't know, I'm just
> asking.
>
> I'm still not too pleased with my choices of where I have to locate my
> antenna on my MkIII. I'm considering a) the nosecone area b) way u
p
> high, above the wing's center section c) mounted on the wing's leadin
g
> edge d) under rear portion of cabin surface
>
>
> Mike Welch
> MkIII
>
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
> No I did not mention a balun, (Balanced to un balanced antenna adapter)
> every piece of wire will have a resonant frequency. And if you can cut t
he
> wire to make it resonant at the frequency you want, keep the band width
> wide or narrow enough for the desired application, make it reject unwant
ed
> signals or noise. You have done a good job. The process of antenna
> building can be as much of an art as it is a science. Go to your browse
r
> and type in fractal antenna if you check out several of the links you
> will see many different designs, they all work well. You could probabl
y
> design one that would be 6 inches or less in any dimension, and place it
in
> the front of your nose cone. You could start with a piece of circuit boa
rd,
> strip all the conductor off one side, then start masking the other side
> into one of the designs you could find links for. You may have to try
> several in order to find one that tunes to the proper frequency, and has
the
> band width and swr you need. The links I followed showed the 50 ohm co
ax
> connected at the center with no balun. One note, if you painted the
> nosecone with polly fiber silver paint, put the antenna on the outside.
> Instead of a full surface ground plane, the braid on my coax antenna is t
he
> ground plane. You can use the metal structure of the plane as the groun
d
> plane, and only use a wire whip. If I were to use an outside antenna on
the
> kolb it would be a whip antenna mounted on the rear part of the nosecone
in
> the center pointed down for about 6 to 8 inches then bent back on about a
45
> to 60 deg angle. You could mount it further back but would have to come
up
> with something for support. Someone mentioned a rubber duck mounted on t
he
> bottom=85 should work fine. If the antenna whip parallels too close
to a
> metal structure you will get too much radiation resistance, and not be ab
le
> to tune the antenna for best swr. The other antenna location would be on
> top of the gap seal. Making sure the antenna was not too close to the
> engine and could not get tangled in the prop. I am just thinking out lou
d
> here. You could probably take an antenna like mine and hot glue it to a
> piece of cardboard in one of the designs you fine in one of the links.
In
> the early days the designers would put up as loooong a wire as they could
> fit in the property. Thinking that if they were to put electrons in the
> air,,, the more surface area in the air the better, and later
> discovered a resonant wire, different length for different frequencies,
> worked much better. And this works for the transmitter as well as the
> receiver.
>
>
> All you wanted to know and then some.
>
>
> Boyd Young
>
> mkIII
>
> ham radio N7WFM
>
>
> *
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
> *
>
>
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Subject: | lost my subscription |
Kolb people=2C
I mentioned yesterday I was going to sign up for the Matronics aeroelectr
ics list. I did=2C but I didn't realize that when you check your favorite
boxes to join=2C you also have to be sure to check the boxes of lists you a
re already on!! Didn't know that=2C so consequently
I got dropped from the Kob list early today!!! ( I thought it got awful q
uiet)
Now that I've found the reason why I haven't been getting any emails from
the Kolb list today=2C I'm too fall-down tired to deal with it (10:30 pm).
I do NOT like to be rude and ignor people's responses that try to help me
. I'll catch up with the replies to my antenna questions in the morning.
Thank you for understanding.
Mike Welch
thump!!
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