---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 04/13/10: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:24 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/12/10 (Bob Green) 2. 06:49 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location (Mike Welch) 3. 08:43 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location (b young) 4. 01:03 PM - antenna's (Larry Cottrell) 5. 04:59 PM - Invitation from George RAndolph (George RAndolph) 6. 06:52 PM - Re: MkIII antenna location (Richard Girard) 7. 08:32 PM - lost my subscription (Mike Welch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:09 AM PST US From: Bob Green Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/12/10 Craig, Congratulations!!! Please contact me off list so I can correspond with you. I am also building a MKIIIX and plan to use the VW re-drive. Thanks Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kolb-List Digest Server Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 2:58 AM Subject: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 04/12/10 * ================================================= Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive ================================================= Today's complete Kolb-List Digest can also be found in either of the two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest formatted in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes and Message Navigation. The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version of the Kolb-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor such as Notepad or with a web browser. HTML Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 10-04-12&Archive=Kolb Text Version: http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 10-04-12&Archive=Kolb =============================================== EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive =============================================== ---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 04/12/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:45 AM - Re: VG's............... (David Lucas) 2. 01:46 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location () 3. 02:24 AM - Re: Re: engine noise (pj.ladd) 4. 04:50 AM - Re: First Flight (zeprep251@aol.com) 5. 05:37 AM - Re: First Flight (Mike Welch) 6. 06:14 AM - Lakeland Weather (John Hauck) 7. 06:31 AM - Re: First Flight (Jimmy Young) 8. 07:37 AM - Re: MkIII antenna location (b young) 9. 12:11 PM - Re: First Flight (zeprep251@AOL.COM) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:29 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VG's............... From: "David Lucas" > But it also had eight VGs spacer out on the wing ahead of the flaps. What do you make of that? > Just a FYI type update. I was at the AERO 2010 expo at Friedrichshafen in Southern Germany last week and got talking with VG manufacturer 'Micro Aerodynamics' who explained that the VG's ahead of the flap area on the Boeing are to counteract and delay the onset of a shock wave which in turn sets off a Dutch Roll type instability that all swept wing aircraft are prone to. Apparently the venerable B52 bomber had them also, and with a bit of poetic license there were 52 per side. The ones ahead of the ailerons are for keeping the airflow attached at low speeds, relatively speaking, just like in a Kolb. (there, now it's Kolb related). David. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293930#293930 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:46:11 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location Mine sits in the middle of the pod pointing upwards. Its connected to a hand held and works well. No noise . It was fitted by a RNZAF aircraft fitter so I have no details of its instillation. Regards Downunder MK111c 503 ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 12, 2010 12:35 PM Subject: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location Hi gang, I'm currious where those of you with aircraft radios located your antenna. I will be using an Icom A200 panel mount radio, and I'm pondering where the best place would be to locate the antenna. It seems like everywhere I think of, there is a logical reason NOT to put it there!! I have an idea where I might install it, but I wanted to hear where others have put there's, first. Oh yeah. I made one of those dipole antennas that Scott shared with us. (actually, I made three. I figured it isn't that much trouble to make more than one, while I was at it.) Although I mentioned the MkIII in the heading, as long as you have a permanent mount antenna on any Kolb airplane, I'd like to hear from you. (even you lurkers....if your radio works good. If your radio doesn't work well, keep lurking :-) ) Mike Welch MkIII ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. Get busy. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:24:46 AM PST US From: "pj.ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: engine noise still shy of the 20,000FD recommended above.>> Thanks for your help. Pat ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight From: zeprep251@aol.com Would that be uncle Craig of breakfast fame at MV? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Sun, Apr 11, 2010 10:45 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight > I flew my Mark 111 Xtra for the first time tonight. I need to do a few adjustments but it was a great flight. I plan to be at Sun n Fun Friday and Saturday. Hope to see some of you there... > > -------- > Craig Spoke > Mark 111 Xtra > VW Redrive > Lillian, AL Craig: Congrats, my friend. john hauck Titus, Alabama ======================= ============ ======================= ============ ======================= ============ ======================= ============ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:17 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: First Flight >Would that be uncle Craig of breakfast fame at MV? >G.Aman Gary=2C No=2C this Craig is not Uncle Craig. Uncle Craig has been flying his MkI II Xtra for quite a long time now. Last I heard=2C he was installing an EFIS=2C or some kind of electronic mon itoring system=2C plus=2C as usual=2C more fiberglass parts. (frankly=2C I miss seeing his latest projects) Craig Spoke is a new MkIII Xtra builder/pilot. He posts on the Kolb-list every once in a while. Mike Welch MkIII CX _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:42 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Lakeland Weather Morning Gang: Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday weather in Lakeland looks good, except for wind. Tuesday weather: Tuesday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 83. East northeast wind between 6 and 15 mph, with gusts as high as 21 mph. Today and Wednesday are much the same. I'll plan on getting out of here at first light in the morning. Hopefully, beat most the wind before it gets up in the afternoon. Right now at 0800, it is dead calm. I I can get up and get loaded, get in the air by 0500, I'll be at LAL before noon. It is a 412 mile flight direct, but I will deviate a little to pick up fuel in Perry, FL. Other than that stop, I'll only land when the urgent need arises. Looking forward to seeing you all at Lakeland. Save me a good spot by the gate to put up my tent, Rick. Getting too old to push the mkIII through the grass. ;-) john hauck Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:31:24 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: First Flight From: "Jimmy Young" Craig, That is a great accomplishment! Looking forward to hearing more about your engine's performance. What type VW, redrive, carb, etc.? -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=293947#293947 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:19 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location Although I mentioned the MkIII in the heading, as long as you have a permanent mount antenna on any Kolb airplane Mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Mike I have a dipole made from the end of the piece of coax. The dipole is on the inside of the nosecone, the center part of the coax runs up the left side and across the top, while the braid runs across the bottom. The location was changed a few times to get the best swr with an antenna analyzer. www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: First Flight From: zeprep251@AOL.COM Thanks Mike. Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: Mike Welch Sent: Mon, Apr 12, 2010 8:36 am Subject: RE: Kolb-List: First Flight >Would that be uncle Craig of breakfast fame at MV? >G.Aman Gary, No, this Craig is not Uncle Craig. Uncle Craig has been flying his MkII I Xtra for quite a long time now. Last I heard, he was installing an EFIS, or some kind of electronic monito ring system, plus, as usual, more fiberglass parts. (frankly, I miss seeing his latest projects) Craig Spoke is a new MkIII Xtra builder/pilot. He posts on the Kolb-lis t every once in a while. Mike Welch MkIII CX Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. See how. ======================= ========== ======================= ========== ======================= ========== ======================= ========== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:49:11 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location Boyd=2C Interesting=2C yet simple antenna. I noticed you didn't mention a balun =2C though. Is there a reason why you don't have one? Is a good SWR readi ng sufficient information to say you don't need one? I don't know=2C I'm j ust asking. I'm still not too pleased with my choices of where I have to locate my an tenna on my MkIII. I'm considering a) the nosecone area b) way up hi gh=2C above the wing's center section c) mounted on the wing's leading edge d) under rear portion of cabin surface a) if I mount it (the dipole antenna) in the nosecone=2C one of the rods poke out in my view through the windscreen. Not acceptable=2C IMO. I mig ht be able to tilt it to where the upper rod is completely contained inside the nosecone=2C and the lower rod would point more horizontally toward the rear=2C but I give up reception in this configuration. b) up top=2C this might be one of the better locations=2C but a dipole ant enna's dimensions don't seen to work well. If I go with this location=2C I would be better to go with a simple mast & and groundplane. The problem i s...there may not be sufficient area to locate a proper ground- plane. hmm mm? c) mounted on the leading edge of a wing=2C whiskers pointing rearward. t his would be the easiest & work the best!!! No modification to the antenn a at all. may also look the dumbest place to put it. since the whiskers could point rearward=2C they wouldn't be likely to be walked into=2C etc. =2C but how dumb would it look to have an antenna on a wing? more hmmm? BTW=2C if I did locate it here=2C I'd make a special rotatable mount=2C w here the antenna could be rotated out of the way for storage. I've got a d esign in mind where you remove a pin=2C spin the antenna out of the way=2C and lock it in place with the pin. Still not my favorite spot!!!!! d) under rear fuselage area. this may be one of the best places to locate it. the question is whether I can fit it in properly. I may not be able to stay with the dipole if I go here. If I can create a decent groundplane out of 1/2" wide copper foil=2C and place the groundplane correctly on the inside of the center of the cabin=2C then I could extend the one antenna mast out and rearward. I think I'll investigate this one more. Time to join the Matronics aeroelectrics forum and bug Bob Nuchols. He'd know what to do. Thanks for your input=2C guys. Mike Welch MkIII From: by0ung@brigham.net Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location Although I mentioned the MkIII in the heading=2C as long as you have a pe rmanent mount antenna on any Kolb airplane Mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Mike I have a dipole made from the end of the piece of coax. The dipole is on the inside of the nosecone=2C the center part of the coax runs up the le ft side and across the top=2C while the braid runs across the bottom. T he location was changed a few times to get the best swr with an antenna ana lyzer. www.brigham.net/~byoung/antenna.html Boyd Young _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy is not the old busy. Search=2C chat and e-mail from your inbox .. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:43:45 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location Boyd, Interesting, yet simple antenna. I noticed you didn't mention a balun, though. Is there a reason why you don't have one? Is a good SWR reading sufficient information to say you don't need one? I don't know, I'm just asking. I'm still not too pleased with my choices of where I have to locate my antenna on my MkIII. I'm considering a) the nosecone area b) way up high, above the wing's center section c) mounted on the wing's leading edge d) under rear portion of cabin surface Mike Welch MkIII >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike No I did not mention a balun, (Balanced to un balanced antenna adapter) every piece of wire will have a resonant frequency. And if you can cut the wire to make it resonant at the frequency you want, keep the band width wide or narrow enough for the desired application, make it reject unwanted signals or noise. You have done a good job. The process of antenna building can be as much of an art as it is a science. Go to your browser and type in fractal antenna if you check out several of the links you will see many different designs, they all work well. You could probably design one that would be 6 inches or less in any dimension, and place it in the front of your nose cone. You could start with a piece of circuit board, strip all the conductor off one side, then start masking the other side into one of the designs you could find links for. You may have to try several in order to find one that tunes to the proper frequency, and has the band width and swr you need. The links I followed showed the 50 ohm coax connected at the center with no balun. One note, if you painted the nosecone with polly fiber silver paint, put the antenna on the outside. Instead of a full surface ground plane, the braid on my coax antenna is the ground plane. You can use the metal structure of the plane as the ground plane, and only use a wire whip. If I were to use an outside antenna on the kolb it would be a whip antenna mounted on the rear part of the nosecone in the center pointed down for about 6 to 8 inches then bent back on about a 45 to 60 deg angle. You could mount it further back but would have to come up with something for support. Someone mentioned a rubber duck mounted on the bottom. should work fine. If the antenna whip parallels too close to a metal structure you will get too much radiation resistance, and not be able to tune the antenna for best swr. The other antenna location would be on top of the gap seal. Making sure the antenna was not too close to the engine and could not get tangled in the prop. I am just thinking out loud here. You could probably take an antenna like mine and hot glue it to a piece of cardboard in one of the designs you fine in one of the links. In the early days the designers would put up as loooong a wire as they could fit in the property. Thinking that if they were to put electrons in the air,,, the more surface area in the air the better, and later discovered a resonant wire, different length for different frequencies, worked much better. And this works for the transmitter as well as the receiver. All you wanted to know and then some. Boyd Young mkIII ham radio N7WFM ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:03:33 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Kolb-List: antenna's Mike, I have done a bit of playing around with antenna's on both a Mark III and my current Firestar. The first Mark III that I had, had a 1/8 th wave ( I assume since it was very short ) on the top of the nose cone. It worked some of the time, but was never good enough to keep the tower operators happy, and it had a regular aircraft radio in it. Nav com, I believe. I sold that aircraft, so its not a problem any more. I kept my Firestar and only run an I Com hand held in it. My antenna system is the same set up as that made by R Pike, although both were developed independently. My ground plane is riveted to the bottom of the cage tubes, and is in a V shape. If I had talked to Richard I would have glued a round plate to the fabric and possibly would have had a more efficient antenna. I have also experimented with the location and found that mine seems to work the best on the bottom of the cage. I put it on top of the wind screen just below the level of the wing and the performance was bad enough that I immediately put it back on the bottom. As you can see (a bit fuzzy ) I put a bend in it so that it wasn't dragging on the ground, but the length is 23 1/2 inch. That is good enough that I can talk to the wife ( last trip ) at 29 miles. She can hear me better if I am flying away from her, remember my ground plane is in a V with the widest end pointed to the rear. This is not by the way line of sight, the house is down in a low spot. Now John told you about his placement and antenna in an earlier post. Last year when he was flying in we talked at 60 miles, He was up I think 9000 feet, and I had no trouble hearing or understanding him. I personally liked the antenna construction that was sent to you, The V type with the balun, but I can find no where to put one on my plane that I like. So I guess I will stick with what I have. Almost anything will work well enough to talk to a tower at the normal 5 mile range, even a rubber duck. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:16 PM PST US From: George RAndolph Subject: Kolb-List: Invitation from George RAndolph See my latest photos, updates and friends on Bebo. Click to view my profile. http://www.bebo.com/T/2.2Bafl2JiTgmc9xjMQ0QT4A/inv/10507319515a106017233b10507306604c0d0e141 Please note: if you are not yet a Bebo member, you must register first. ....................................................................... This email was sent to you at the direct request of George RAndolph . You have not been added to a mailing list. If you would prefer not to receive invitations from ANY Bebo members please click here - http://www.bebo.com/T/2.2Bafl2JiTgmc9xjMQ0QT4A/unsub/10507319515a106017233 Bebo, Inc., 795 Folsom St, #250, San Francisco, CA 94107, USA. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: MkIII antenna location From: Richard Girard Mike, Boyd, all, Another great source of strictly antenna information is Bo b Weir, who writes a regular monthly column in "Kitplanes". He publishes a manual for building dipoles for aircraft. It comes with a roll of copper foil and a bag of baluns. Rick Girard On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 10:42 AM, b young wrote: > Boyd, > > Interesting, yet simple antenna. I noticed you didn't mention a balun, > though. Is there a reason why you don't have one? Is a good SWR reading > sufficient information to say you don't need one? I don't know, I'm just > asking. > > I'm still not too pleased with my choices of where I have to locate my > antenna on my MkIII. I'm considering a) the nosecone area b) way u p > high, above the wing's center section c) mounted on the wing's leadin g > edge d) under rear portion of cabin surface > > > Mike Welch > MkIII > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > Mike > > > No I did not mention a balun, (Balanced to un balanced antenna adapter) > every piece of wire will have a resonant frequency. And if you can cut t he > wire to make it resonant at the frequency you want, keep the band width > wide or narrow enough for the desired application, make it reject unwant ed > signals or noise. You have done a good job. The process of antenna > building can be as much of an art as it is a science. Go to your browse r > and type in fractal antenna if you check out several of the links you > will see many different designs, they all work well. You could probabl y > design one that would be 6 inches or less in any dimension, and place it in > the front of your nose cone. You could start with a piece of circuit boa rd, > strip all the conductor off one side, then start masking the other side > into one of the designs you could find links for. You may have to try > several in order to find one that tunes to the proper frequency, and has the > band width and swr you need. The links I followed showed the 50 ohm co ax > connected at the center with no balun. One note, if you painted the > nosecone with polly fiber silver paint, put the antenna on the outside. > Instead of a full surface ground plane, the braid on my coax antenna is t he > ground plane. You can use the metal structure of the plane as the groun d > plane, and only use a wire whip. If I were to use an outside antenna on the > kolb it would be a whip antenna mounted on the rear part of the nosecone in > the center pointed down for about 6 to 8 inches then bent back on about a 45 > to 60 deg angle. You could mount it further back but would have to come up > with something for support. Someone mentioned a rubber duck mounted on t he > bottom=85 should work fine. If the antenna whip parallels too close to a > metal structure you will get too much radiation resistance, and not be ab le > to tune the antenna for best swr. The other antenna location would be on > top of the gap seal. Making sure the antenna was not too close to the > engine and could not get tangled in the prop. I am just thinking out lou d > here. You could probably take an antenna like mine and hot glue it to a > piece of cardboard in one of the designs you fine in one of the links. In > the early days the designers would put up as loooong a wire as they could > fit in the property. Thinking that if they were to put electrons in the > air,,, the more surface area in the air the better, and later > discovered a resonant wire, different length for different frequencies, > worked much better. And this works for the transmitter as well as the > receiver. > > > All you wanted to know and then some. > > > Boyd Young > > mkIII > > ham radio N7WFM > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:10 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: lost my subscription Kolb people=2C I mentioned yesterday I was going to sign up for the Matronics aeroelectr ics list. I did=2C but I didn't realize that when you check your favorite boxes to join=2C you also have to be sure to check the boxes of lists you a re already on!! Didn't know that=2C so consequently I got dropped from the Kob list early today!!! ( I thought it got awful q uiet) Now that I've found the reason why I haven't been getting any emails from the Kolb list today=2C I'm too fall-down tired to deal with it (10:30 pm). I do NOT like to be rude and ignor people's responses that try to help me . I'll catch up with the replies to my antenna questions in the morning. Thank you for understanding. Mike Welch thump!! _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail has tools for the New Busy. 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