Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:55 AM - Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (Rick Lewis)
2. 12:04 PM - Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (Richard Girard)
3. 03:55 PM - Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (The Kuffels)
4. 04:09 PM - Re: Need more braking power? (william sullivan)
5. 04:43 PM - Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (Rick Lewis)
6. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
7. 05:49 PM - Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (Jack B. Hart)
8. 06:32 PM - Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
9. 07:05 PM - Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? (Richard Girard)
10. 08:25 PM - Re: video of todays flight (cristalclear13)
11. 08:35 PM - New intercom and Waycross Sun N Fun video (cristalclear13)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
This arrangement will give you a 3:1 ratio at the pedal. Look closely at the attach
points and you will understand how it works. The lower two bolts are 1"
out from the pedals plate, and the top of the pedal is 3" up from this point.
This give you the 3:1 ratio. After making the initial prototype you could instantly
feel the difference. Try to think of this as a crowbar pulling a nail,
only this is pushing a rod.
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295240#295240
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
Depending on the bore of the master cylinders you have (I seem to recall
that Matco only makes them in 5/8") you could change to a 3/4" (Grove makes
them, I checked) and increase your hydraulic leverage.
The other thing to consider is that increasing leverage, whether mechanical
or hydraulic, can get you to brake lock and a quick flip over on your back.
Just a couple of thoughts.
Rick Girard
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>wrote:
> could you press one of the pedals in a pic to show how this system works
> from what I see in the pic all it would give you is more dead linkeage but
> I could be wrong
>
> working to much to get any flying in
>
> *Ellery Batchelder Jr.*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Lewis <cktman@hughes.net>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wed, Apr 21, 2010 8:35 pm
> Subject: Kolb-List: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER?
>
>
> I finally got back to working on the brakes. The c-90 brake calipers now being
> used on the MK-3x and others require a brake pedal ratio of 4:1 to have really
> good braking power. The pedals being used on our Kolbs have a ratio of 1:1 or
> less, according to Matco. If you don't seem to have good braking power, this
is
> probably your problem. I have been thinking about this for a while, trying to
> find an easy way to modify what we already have. The picture should answer any
> questions you may have to modify your existing pedals. This arrangement should
> give you a ratio of 3:1. You could improve even more on this by raising the
top
> of the pedal another inch giving you the full 4:1 ratio called out for the the
> instructions.
>
> Rick Lewis
>
> --------
> Rick Lewis
>
> (VW Watercooled Engine)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295180#295180
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pic00026_247.jpg
>
>
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> *
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>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
Richard,
<< bore of the master cylinders you have (I seem to recall that Matco
only makes them in 5/8") you could change to a 3/4" (Grove makes them, I
checked) and increase your hydraulic leverage >>
Am I missing something? I thought the hydraulic leverage was the ratio
of the area of the two pistons involved. Increasing the size of the
master piston reduces this ratio.
Tom Kuffel
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Need more braking power? |
- Increasing the cylinder size from 5/8" to 3/4" will give you a quicker
responce, because it will move more oil for the same stroke.- It will als
o give you less applied force at the brakes for the same pedal pressure.-
The pedal will move less, and need to be pressed harder to achieve the sam
e braking force.- Changing the pedal geometry allows you to apply more le
verage against the master cylinder, and down to the wheel.- It's a balanc
ing act.
-
-------------------------
--------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
--------------- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
--------------- FS 447
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
This drawing, from Matco, is were I got the idea on the configuration I'm presenting
to the group. Going to there site will clear up anyone having a hard time
understanding how this pedal configuration increases your braking power. What
I was trying to do is come up with an easy way that everyone can increase
there braking power with a simple modification. It really does make an incredible
difference. I did a similar method on my previous home built, a Cozy.
Rick Lewis
--------
Rick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295329#295329
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_140.bmp
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
I am pretty good at working with mechanical things and I just dont see ho
w that setup will do what you say it will you can send a pic of a pedal pu
shed and that will tell the story much better than your explanation
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Lewis <cktman@hughes.net>
Sent: Thu, Apr 22, 2010 6:54 am
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER?
This arrangement will give you a 3:1 ratio at the pedal. Look closely at
the
ttach points and you will understand how it works. The lower two bolts ar
e 1"
ut from the pedals plate, and the top of the pedal is 3" up from this poin
t.
his give you the 3:1 ratio. After making the initial prototype you could
nstantly feel the difference. Try to think of this as a crowbar pulling
a
ail, only this is pushing a rod.
--------
ick Lewis
(VW Watercooled Engine)
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295240#295240
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Message 7
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
>
Depending on the bore of the master cylinders you have (I seem to recall
that Matco only makes them in 5/8") you could change to a 3/4" (Grove makes
them, I checked) and increase your hydraulic leverage.
>
Rick,
What is important here is the force that can be applied to the brake. The
higher the hydraulic pressure developed the greater the braking force. If
one assumes a 100 pound force is applied to the cylinder piston rod, the
hydraulic pressure developed will be force/piston area. For the 3/4 inch
diameter piston = 100/(3/8x3/8xpi) = 226 psi. For the 5/8 inch diameter
piston = 100/(5/16x5/16xpi) = 326 psi. So for the same pedal effort the
smaller bore cylinder will give 44% increase in pressure and braking.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
I agree with Jack's figures
"The drawing you submitted to the list" if you have your Points as the dr
awings show you will only have changed the length of your pedal and not
gained anything by adding the extra linkage
because both both setups are doing the same thing with the same arm lengt
hs pushing the plunger down to make pressure in the brake system where yo
u are Gaining on braking power is having longer brake pedals that is all
it boils down to You changed the length of your brake pedals from 1X to
2.5X that is what your drawings show
I have heal brakes that worked good with small tires on ,when I went with
the 800-6 tires I lengthened my brake pedals 1.5 inches longer to make th
em as good as with the smaller tires I didn't change anything else on the
pedals other than the length from the pivot point north
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
Sent: Thu, Apr 22, 2010 9:51 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER?
rom: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
epending on the bore of the master cylinders you have (I seem to recall
hat Matco only makes them in 5/8") you could change to a 3/4" (Grove makes
hem, I checked) and increase your hydraulic leverage.
Rick,
What is important here is the force that can be applied to the brake. The
igher the hydraulic pressure developed the greater the braking force. If
ne assumes a 100 pound force is applied to the cylinder piston rod, the
ydraulic pressure developed will be force/piston area. For the 3/4 inch
iameter piston = 100/(3/8x3/8xpi) = 226 psi. For the 5/8 inch diamete
r
iston = 100/(5/16x5/16xpi) = 326 psi. So for the same pedal effort th
e
maller bore cylinder will give 44% increase in pressure and braking.
Jack B. Hart FF004
inchester, IN
========================
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-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse
-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
-= Photoshare, and much much more:
-
-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
-
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-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!
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Message 9
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Subject: | Re: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER? |
Oops! My only excuse is that I was six hours into watching my 3 year old
grandson, blaring Wallace and Gromit video going in the background and
trying to think all at the same time.
Rick
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>wrote:
> I agree with Jack's figures
>
> "The drawing you submitted to the list" if you have your Points as the
> drawings show you will only have changed the length of your pedal and not
> gained anything by adding the extra linkage
> because both both setups are doing the same thing with the same arm
> lengths pushing the plunger down to make pressure in the brake system where
> you are Gaining on braking power is having longer brake pedals that is all
> it boils down to You changed the length of your brake pedals from 1X to 2.5X
> that is what your drawings show
> I have heal brakes that worked good with small tires on ,when I went with
> the 800-6 tires I lengthened my brake pedals 1.5 inches longer to make them
> as good as with the smaller tires I didn't change anything else on the
> pedals other than the length from the pivot point north
> *Ellery Batchelder Jr.*
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thu, Apr 22, 2010 9:51 pm
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: NEED MORE BRAKING POWER?
>
>
> Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 14:01:19 -0500
> From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
> >
> Depending on the bore of the master cylinders you have (I seem to recall
> that Matco only makes them in 5/8") you could change to a 3/4" (Grove makes
> them, I checked) and increase your hydraulic leverage.
> >
>
> Rick,
>
> What is important here is the force that can be applied to the brake. The
> higher the hydraulic pressure developed the greater the braking force. If
> one assumes a 100 pound force is applied to the cylinder piston rod, the
> hydraulic pressure developed will be force/piston area. For the 3/4 inch
> diameter piston = 100/(3/8x3/8xpi) = 226 psi. For the 5/8 inch diameter
> piston = 100/(5/16x5/16xpi) = 326 psi. So for the same pedal effort the
> smaller bore cylinder will give 44% increase in pressure and braking.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
> ===================================
> rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> ===================================
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> ===================================
> _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===================================
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: video of todays flight |
Thom Riddle wrote:
> Larry,
>
> That is your best video yet
I agree! That was great!
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295359#295359
Message 11
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Subject: | New intercom and Waycross Sun N Fun video |
I broke down and bought the intercom that Jim Kmet said worked well in his Mark
III, the Sigtronics SPO-22N. It worked really well with just me and my radio
this evening. Now I have to find a guinea pig for a passenger to test out communication
in the cockpit. :D
I did not get to go to Sun N Fun but our airport did serve BBQ, hot dogs, chips
and sweet tea to those who stopped by to fuel up, so we got to see a lot of different
planes. I was able to go out to the airport a couple of those days and
took some pictures and video. I also got some pictures from a friend who served
up BBQ everyday, and so I combined them and made this video. The first
minute or so is a slideshow of just pictures and is silent. Then you will see
and hear some takeoffs and some T-34s doing some formation flying over our airport.
It was fun!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLOC-dadR34
--------
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar
Rotax 503 DCSI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295360#295360
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