Kolb-List Digest Archive

Tue 04/27/10


Total Messages Posted: 24



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 09:05 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (pj.ladd)
     2. 09:06 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (pj.ladd)
     3. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (John Hauck)
     4. 09:30 AM - Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jason Omelchuck)
     5. 09:39 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jack B. Hart)
     6. 09:46 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (b young)
     7. 09:48 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (John Hauck)
     8. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Larry Cottrell)
     9. 10:08 AM - Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (b young)
    10. 10:13 AM - Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jason Omelchuck)
    11. 10:15 AM - Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jason Omelchuck)
    12. 10:19 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Dana Hague)
    13. 10:20 AM - Re: Flying the Kolb Ultrastar (mark.shimei)
    14. 10:26 AM - Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jason Omelchuck)
    15. 10:38 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Eugene Zimmerman)
    16. 11:17 AM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Larry Cottrell)
    17. 01:04 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Mrs. Michelle Cole)
    18. 01:50 PM - Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jason Omelchuck)
    19. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jack B. Hart)
    20. 02:25 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (robert bean)
    21. 02:57 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Dana Hague)
    22. 04:22 PM - Re: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (Jack B. Hart)
    23. 06:12 PM - Re: 180 turn back to the runway video (JetPilot)
    24. 11:04 PM - Re: BNC bulkhead connector (R. Hankins)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 09:05:42 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    In a descending (power off) turn at constant airspeed your airplane will stall at the same speed it does straight ahead with power off. >> Sorry but that is not true. Two things happen when you turn. 1. Your apparent weight will increase because of the `G` force engendered by turning. 2. Your generated lift will diminish because lift is always generated at right angles to the wing and if you turn part of the lift will be used to turn you.. The steeper your turn the worse both of these effects become. You MUST increase your speed to compensate. Cheers Pat


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:06:22 AM PST US
    From: "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    Jason Omelchuck wrote: > Hello All, > > One of the things I have always wanted to test was the height required to > get back to a runway after take off.>> Neatly done and a good video.. The cut back of the engine and the lowering of the nose were simultaneous. In a real emergency you will lose a couple of seconds at least wondering `What the *******has happened`. Also there was no or very little wind. A few knots on your nose turning rapidly to a few knots up your tailfeathers will reduce your flying speed and INCREASE you ground speed and the length of your landing run considerably. You took off from pretty well down the runway and consequently had a good length of runway behind you to land on. My Xtra would have been at 500 feet while you were still on the ground and in the event of a 180 degree turn back there would have been considerably less useable runway. I dont know how much difference there is in the glide produced by a stopped prop as opposed to a windmilling one., perhaps someone has the figures. Thanks for doing the experiment. I shall make sure I do not turn back at 500ft or less. Cheers Pat


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:20:39 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    Two things happen when you turn. 1. Your apparent weight will increase because of the `G` force engendered by turning. 2. Your generated lift will diminish because lift is always generated at right angles to the wing and if you turn part of the lift will be used to turn you.. The steeper your turn the worse both of these effects become. You MUST increase your speed to compensate. Cheers Pat Patrick L/Gang: I think we did this argument some time ago. And....I think Tom Kuffle presented a good explanation of this, but I am probably wrong. Don't we have to take into consideration this is a descending turn? john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:30:41 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    Hello Pat, I believe this is true. A descending (power off) turn at constant airspeed is a 1G maneuver. If you bank steeper you descend faster and you are still at 1G. Jason pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > In a descending (power off) turn at constant airspeed your airplane will > stall at the same speed it does straight ahead with power off. >> > > Sorry but that is not true. > > Two things happen when you turn. > > 1. Your apparent weight will increase because of the `G` force engendered by > turning. > > 2. Your generated lift will diminish because lift is always generated at > right angles to the wing and if you turn part of the lift will be used to > turn you.. The steeper your turn the worse both of these effects become. > You MUST increase your speed to compensate. > > Cheers > > Pat Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295856#295856


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:39:00 AM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    Jason, Took some data from your video. I recorded the time of lift off, point of throttle pull back, approximated after completion of 180 turn, and touch down. You were getting to 500 feet in about 30 seconds for a climb rate of 1,000 ft/min. Your 180 degree turn took about 17.5 seconds for a good turn rate of 620 deg/min. Glide time was about 32.5 seconds for an average decent rate of 923 ft/min. The latter is very good considering the wind milling propeller. In your case there has to be an optimum ias that gives you the best glide for a wind milling propeller. You may want to consider VG's to increase lift to help off set the wind milling propeller drag. Also, I have found they will greatly reduce twitchyness felt during steep turns with the FireFly. Keep up the good work. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:46:44 AM PST US
    From: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    I think we did this argument some time ago. And....I think Tom Kuffle presented a good explanation of this, but I am probably wrong. Don't we have to take into consideration this is a descending turn? john hauck >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John and the gang Back in my training for private ticket,, when doing a power off left turn from base to final, especially if there was a bit of a left cross wind on final , I would bank the plane a bit more than usual to stop the drifting from the cross wind in order to line up with the runway. That precipitated a long lesson on accelerated stalls, with special emphasis on base to final turns. Long story short I think Pat was right. Boyd


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:48:03 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    You may want to consider VG's to increase lift to help off set the wind milling propeller drag. Also, I have found they will greatly reduce twitchyness felt during steep turns with the FireFly. Keep up the good work. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ***************** Jack H/Gang: Do VGs increase lift? The reason I ask is I do not know. I thought VGs decreased stall speed. Also, could you explain "twitchyness" during steep turns with the Firefly? Thanks, john hauck - Twitchy after operating the "bush hog on a pole" (weed eater) all morning. mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:52:33 AM PST US
    From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    I found in my experiments with this situation that a slow flat turn was better than a steep quick turn. Keeping that in mind if there is any increase in G forces it was negligent, therefore the stall would not increase. Of course I had VG's :-) Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hauck To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 10:20 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video Two things happen when you turn. 1. Your apparent weight will increase because of the `G` force engendered by turning. 2. Your generated lift will diminish because lift is always generated at right angles to the wing and if you turn part of the lift will be used to turn you.. The steeper your turn the worse both of these effects become. You MUST increase your speed to compensate. Cheers Pat Patrick L/Gang: I think we did this argument some time ago. And....I think Tom Kuffle presented a good explanation of this, but I am probably wrong. Don't we have to take into consideration this is a descending turn? john hauck mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 9


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    Time: 10:08:56 AM PST US
    From: "b young" <by0ung@brigham.net>
    Subject: 180 turn back to the runway video
    his prop is going to spin and slow him down a lot. All he had to do was to apply throttle and he is running again, so the danger that he put himself into was no worse than any power off landing, whether it be straight in or not. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. Have you ever heard of an accelerated stall. It usually happens when yanking and banking. Maybe I am out of place because I have not seen the video. But I have not seen these thoughts expressed in this thread. If the turns are less than 30 deg and the g load less than 1.5,, you may be ok. if the turn is 60 or more deg bank and g load 2 or above. You best know what the stall looks and feels like, and at what speed, in that configuration. In these conditions the stall can occur well above the straight and level stall speed. And a stall at a high bank angle at 500 ft and under can cause a sudden end to a very good day. Even if your engine is running. Boyd Young


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:13:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    Hello Pat, The wind would have to be blowing on the order of 10 to 15 knots (an estimate) down the runway to be in danger of running out of runway on the landing roll. I recommend you not taking this information and applying it to your airplane. From your description of the way you plane can take off, it obviously has much different flight characteristics than mine. I would highly recommend you go to altitude and practice full power climb to descending 180. If you get comfortable doing them at altitude, you may want to work up to finding a nice safe place and doing some testing yourself. Just hearing about someone else doing it will not replace training or practice. Best Wishes Jason pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: > Jason Omelchuck wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > One of the things I have always wanted to test was the height required to > > get back to a runway after take off.>> > > > > > > Neatly done and a good video.. The cut back of the engine and the lowering > of the nose were simultaneous. In a real emergency you will lose a couple > of seconds at least wondering `What the *******has happened`. Also there > was no or very little wind. A few knots on your nose turning rapidly to a > few knots up your tailfeathers will reduce your flying speed and INCREASE > you ground speed and the length of your landing run considerably. > > You took off from pretty well down the runway and consequently had a good > length of runway behind you to land on. My Xtra would have been at 500 feet > while you were still on the ground and in the event of a 180 degree turn > back there would have been considerably less useable runway. > > I dont know how much difference there is in the glide produced by a stopped > prop as opposed to a windmilling one., perhaps someone has the figures. > > Thanks for doing the experiment. I shall make sure I do not turn back at > 500ft or less. > > Cheers > > Pat Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295873#295873


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:15:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    Hello Boyd, Again, a descending (power off) turn at constant air speed is a 1G maneuver. Jason [quote="by0ung(at)brigham.net"]his prop is going to spin and slow him down a lot. All he had to do was to apply throttle and he is running again, so the danger that he put himself into was no worse than any power off landing, whether it be straight in or not. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. > > Have you ever heard of an accelerated stall. It usually happens when yanking and banking. Maybe I am out of place because I have not seen the video. But I have not seen these thoughts expressed in this thread. If the turns are less than 30 deg and the g load less than 1.5,, you may be ok if the turn is 60 or more deg bank and g load 2 or above. You best know what the stall looks and feels like, and at what speed, in that configuration. In these conditions the stall can occur well above the straight and level stall speed. And a stall at a high bank angle at 500 ft and under can cause a sudden end to a very good day. Even if your engine is running. Boyd Young > [b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295874#295874


    Message 12


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    Time: 10:19:54 AM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    At 11:00 PM 4/26/2010, Jason Omelchuck wrote: >In a descending (power off) turn at constant airspeed your airplane will >stall at the same speed it does straight ahead with power off... Jason, This is simply not correct. I suggest you review "accelerated stalls". In a coordinated turn, the stall speed increases as a function of the bank angle. The effect is small for shallow turns, but, for example, in a 60=B0 banked turn when you're pulling 2g, the stall speed is 41% higher. Trying to turn too tight at low altitude, whether it's a flat skidding turn leading to the inside wing stalling, or an accelerated stall, is what does in a lot of pilots. -Dana -- Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.


    Message 13


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    Time: 10:20:02 AM PST US
    From: "mark.shimei" <mark.shimei@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Flying the Kolb Ultrastar
    Another ultrastar!!! I dont feel so alone now.......even though he is on the other side of the planet...


    Message 14


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    Time: 10:26:20 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    Hello Dana, If you are not descending and under power you are correct. If you are power off and loosing airspeed, you are correct. If you are power off and descending at a constant airspeed, it is a 1G maneuver. Regards Jason [quote="Dana"]At 11:00 PM 4/26/2010, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > In a descending (power off) turn at constant airspeed your airplane will stall at the same speed it does straight ahead with power off... Jason, This is simply not correct. I suggest you review "accelerated stalls". In a coordinated turn, the stall speed increases as a function of the bank angle. The effect is small for shallow turns, but, for example, in a 60 banked turn when you're pulling 2g, the stall speed is 41% higher. Trying to turn too tight at low altitude, whether it's a flat skidding turn leading to the inside wing stalling, or an accelerated stall, is what does in a lot of pilots. -Dana -- Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian. > [b] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295881#295881


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:38:56 AM PST US
    From: Eugene Zimmerman <etzimm@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    Kolb pilots, Another thing that I always try to make a habit when I take off is whenever I reach the point where an abort straight ahead back to the remaining runway becomes doubtful or unlikely is to drift off to the downwind side of the runway from whatever crosswind there may be, so that a turn back to the runway is into the wind and also requires less degree of turn to reach the runway again. I like to stack the deck in my favor as much as possible when I am taking off. Also being aggressive in air speed and bank angle in a turn back reduces the time required to make a 180 and shortens the distance back to the threshold. IOW Control the airplane, don't let the airplane control YOU. YOU put the airplane down, don't let the airplane put YOU down. Gene On Apr 26, 2010, at 11:00 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > > > > Hello Crystal, > > In a descending (power off) turn at constant airspeed your airplane > will stall at the same speed it does straight ahead with power off. > The risk is keeping the turn coordinated so that remains true for > both wings. The tendency is to try to put in too much rudder to > tighten the turn and you then run the risk of the inside wing > stalling. when I first started practicing at altitude, I noticed I > could feel the wing start to bobble at stall and that it would > increase the bank and start the beginning of a spiral. It was a > little unnerving at first, but I noticed I could keep it from > developing by a little opposite rudder and of course getting the > nose down ever so slightly to keep the airspeed up. I did practice > (at altitude) going from a full throttle climb to a descending 180 > turn while trying to keep a constant airspeed. One of the things I > think I have learned while doing this close to the ground is that > the fear of hitting the ground is a very ingrained in my brain. It ! > is an un-natural act to put the nose down to save yourself from > hitting the ground. I believe this has caused many an airplane > accident because it is just does not make sense, your instinct > really wants to pull back on the stick to extend the glide just that > little bit more. This sensation does not get triggered when flying > at altitude. I believe this is the reason that many a Kolb landing > gear has been bent by people who are used to flying GA aircraft. To > the pilot of a faster airplane, the angle of approach that must be > kept close to the ground before round out is alarming until you do > it many times. > > My $.02 worth > Jason > > > cristalclear13 wrote: >> >> Jason Omelchuck wrote: >>> Hello All, >>> >>> One of the things I have always wanted to test was the height >>> required to get back to a runway after take off. On Sunday, I got >>> a chance to do some testing and I got a video of it. The runway I >>> am flying from is about 2500 feet long. I found that it required >>> about 500' for me to make the 180 and get back to the end of the >>> runway. I tried it at 400' but the ending was not pretty (nothing >>> bent). The interesting thing is that at 600' I could not make the >>> runway because I had traveled further away from the runway than >>> the extra 100' in altitude allowed me to make up. My engine has a >>> clutch, so the prop windmills at engine idle just like it would >>> windmill if the engine failed. >>> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn6T8ynRDLk >>> >>> FWIW >>> Jason >>> MKIII Yamaha powered >>> Portland, OR >> >> >> Wish I had that many open fields to choose from for emergency >> landing spots. >> Please be careful. Do you know your stall speed on a steep turn? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295828#295828 > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:17:04 AM PST US
    From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    Every thing and every plane is different, and I intend to pursue my findings further, but the turns that I did last spring in testing this theory proved to me that I lost much more altitude in a steep turn than what I did in a slow flat turn. Of course I have VG's and that made my findings different from most of you. I tried it both ways and I found that clam, slow and easy worked the best for me. Your experience may be different! Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Eugene Zimmerman To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 6:19 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video Kolb pilots, Also being aggressive in air speed and bank angle in a turn back reduces the time required to make a 180 and shortens the distance back to the threshold. IOW Control the airplane, don't let the airplane control YOU. YOU put the airplane down, don't let the airplane put YOU down. Gene


    Message 17


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    Time: 01:04:50 PM PST US
    From: "Mrs. Michelle Cole" <apilot@surewest.net>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    In my early days, I use to practice this 180 turn back to the runway. First few in a Cessna 150 I lost about 600 ft. Then, using a more aggressive dive, turn and bank, I got the Cessna around with only 150 foot loss of altitude. About 10% of the time, I could get it down to 100 footloss. Later, in my PA-11 Cub, I could consistently get it back to the runway with a 50 foot loss of altitude. It just takes practice with a sound technique. Vic ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 17:05:57 +0100 >From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com (on behalf of "pj.ladd" <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>) >Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video >To: <kolb-list@matronics.com> > > >Jason Omelchuck wrote: >> Hello All, >> >> One of the things I have always wanted to test was the height required to >> get back to a runway after take off.>> > >Neatly done and a good video.. The cut back of the engine and the lowering >of the nose were simultaneous. In a real emergency you will lose a couple >of seconds at least wondering `What the *******has happened`. Also there >was no or very little wind. A few knots on your nose turning rapidly to a >few knots up your tailfeathers will reduce your flying speed and INCREASE >you ground speed and the length of your landing run considerably. > >You took off from pretty well down the runway and consequently had a good >length of runway behind you to land on. My Xtra would have been at 500 feet >while you were still on the ground and in the event of a 180 degree turn >back there would have been considerably less useable runway. > >I dont know how much difference there is in the glide produced by a stopped >prop as opposed to a windmilling one., perhaps someone has the figures. > >Thanks for doing the experiment. I shall make sure I do not turn back at >500ft or less. > >Cheers > >Pat > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 01:50:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    Hello All, Here is where this very topic was discussed in detail on this list before. FWIW. http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=38477&highlight=descending+turn+stall Jason Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295922#295922


    Message 19


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    Time: 02:03:37 PM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    At 11:46 AM 4/27/10 -0500, you wrote: > >Jack H/Gang: > >Do VGs increase lift? The reason I ask is I do not know. > >I thought VGs decreased stall speed. > >Also, could you explain "twitchyness" during steep turns with the Firefly? > >Thanks, > John, You are correct in that VG's reduce stall speed. Therefore it stands to reason that if one flys at the previous stall speed or faster, the VG's will generate more lift than the wing did before the addition of VG's. Also when in level flight the AOA will be less and the drag associated with that IAS will be less too. When I installed the VG's, the 447 was mounted on the FireFly and after I had changed from 15 inch chord ailerons to 9 inch chord ailerons. The description of what happened when I installed them can be found at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly18.html What I mean by twitchy is the feeling one gets through the lower cheeks that things are not going well or as one expects. I had the feeling that if I pushed the FireFly on a downwind to base bank that it felt like it wanted keep right on going over onto its back. As a result I never made very steep left banks. I had no problem with banks to the right. After I mounted the VG's this sensation disappeared, and flying enjoyment increased. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 20


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    Time: 02:25:18 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    From: robert bean <slyck@frontiernet.net>
    I usually read the responses to a post before I offer my 2 cents. BUT, unless you a re a really low time Kolb pilot you should eventually pick up on how your wing is feeling. Smooth, low pull turns like we saw in that excellent video would not cause a problem. -that is as long as the driver has a good feel for load inducement and keeps his buttocks free from excessive compression. Lowering the nose will do just fine. Once again, you cannot stall an airplane at zero Gs. BB On 27, Apr 2010, at 1:15 PM, Jason Omelchuck wrote: > > Hello Boyd, > > Again, a descending (power off) turn at constant air speed is a 1G maneuver. > > Jason > > [quote="by0ung(at)brigham.net"]his prop is going to spin and slow him down a lot. All he had to do was to apply throttle and he is running again, so the danger that he put himself into was no worse than any power off landing, whether it be straight in or not. > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >> >> > > Have you ever heard of an accelerated stall. It usually happens when yanking and banking. Maybe I am out of place because I have not seen the video. But I have not seen these thoughts expressed in this thread. If the turns are less than 30 deg and the g load less than 1.5,, you may be ok if the turn is 60 or more deg bank and g load 2 or above. You best know what the stall looks and feels like, and at what speed, in that configuration. In these conditions the stall can occur well above the straight and level stall speed. And a stall at a high bank angle at 500 ft and under can cause a sudden end to a very good day. Even if your engine is running. > > Boyd Young > >> [b] > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295874#295874 > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 02:57:06 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    At 01:25 PM 4/27/2010, Jason Omelchuck wrote: >If you are not descending and under power you are correct. If you are >power off and loosing airspeed, you are correct. If you are power off and >descending at a constant airspeed, it is a 1G maneuver. People argued with me in the previous thread you referenced, but I stand by what I said: It is impossible to maintain a turn at constant airspeed without exceeding 1G, unless your rate of descent constantly increases at an acceleration rate corresponding to the loss of lift due to the bank. Take a 45 degree bank, for example. In a normal, coordinated, level turn, you pull 1.41G. If you put your aircraft into a 45 degree bank and hold 1G, the vertical component of lift will be only 0.707g; thus you'll have a downward acceleration of 0.3g, or 9.4 ft/s/s, or 566 fpm/s. This means that after one second, your rate of descent will have increased by 566 fpm. After four seconds, you're descending at 2264 fpm, which is a pretty steep dive, and you WILL pull more than one g pulling out of it. -Dana. -- Wernher von Braun settled for a V-2 instead of a V-8.


    Message 22


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    Time: 04:22:38 PM PST US
    From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    The most ignored indicator that indicates stall independent of the ASI and angle of bank is the AOA meter. Few have them mounted in their aircraft. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN


    Message 23


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    Time: 06:12:47 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: 180 turn back to the runway video
    From: "JetPilot" <orcabonita@hotmail.com>
    Jason, That was a great video you did on returning to the runway in the event of an engine failure. The lesson to learn here is not to take a piece of advice like " Never try to return to the runway if your engine quits " and apply it to every situation. Many times Kolb pilots are flying from 5000 foot general aviation runways that you would be close to 1000 feet at the end. If you had houses, or trees in front, 1000 feet of altitude, and 5000 feet of general aviation runway just behind you when the engine quit, only a fool would take the common advice and land into a house or a tree in this situation. As the runway gets shorter, it becomes more dangerous to turn back, and one should look for the best place ahead or even 90 degrees left or right. On a super short runway, the only option will be straight ahead. A good pilot should know about what runway length and altitude will allow a return to the runway if the engine quits in his airplane. Its needless to say brand new Kolb pilots should not practice this until they know their airplanes well and can do a banked power off turn without stalling. Again, its just a matter of being smart. For most of us, practice like this will make us safer in case of an engine failure. There are always a few new or poorly skilled pilots that are safer never testing the limits of their planes. Trying to apply one rule to everyone, or one rule for every situation just shows a poor understanding of aviation. Mike -------- &quot;NO FEAR&quot; - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!! Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295942#295942


    Message 24


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    Time: 11:04:53 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: BNC bulkhead connector
    From: "R. Hankins" <rphanks@grantspass.com>
    "Show this to your local Radio Shack sales clerk. " Your link is pretty much what the local Shack clerk showed me... Lots of BNC stuff, but no bulkhead fitting like Jimmy is looking for. It's not in their system at all. The Shack ain't what it used to be. -------- Roger in Oregon 1992 KXP 503 - N1782C Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=295978#295978




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