---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/06/10: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: slow flying MkIII's (b young) 2. 08:48 AM - Re: slow flying MkIII's (Thom Riddle) 3. 11:26 AM - Re: safety pins (racerjerry) 4. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: safety pins (Mike Welch) 5. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: safety pins (Richard Girard) 6. 02:35 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (frank goodnight) 7. 04:02 PM - Safety pins (lhaggerty) 8. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (russ kinne) 9. 06:29 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (chris davis) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:30 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: slow flying MkIII's My question for you (and/or others) is this. The static (at rest) thrust line of the my engine is pointing upwards 3.5 degrees relative to the bottom of the wing. Is this about right, assuming my mounts are plenty hard? Note that the axis of the motor mount bolts is not vertical like on the Rotax but parallel to the longitudinal axis of the airplane. However I can still raise one side/end vs the other because this mount bolts to the Kolb engine tube. Not sure this shows in the attached photo, but that is all I have right now and my camera keeps quitting on me. Guess it is time for a new one. -------- Thom Riddle >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not sure about the sling shot..... the bottom of the mkIII wing has 9 deg positive incidence in flight. if I read your post correctly you would add 3.5 deg to that, assuming the SS has the same 9 deg in flight (plus or minus), adding the 3.5 would make the front of the engine pointing up at 12.5 deg in flight. guess I am going to have to measure my mike this week... guess in my mind I would think the engine should have less incidence than the bottom of the wing. making the prop more perpendicular to the line of travel. or am I missing something? Boyd Young ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:31 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: slow flying MkIII's From: "Thom Riddle" Boyd, That is my thought too. I would think that at cruise, the thrust line should be fairly closely aligned with the relative wind. BTW, I measured the angles again yesterday and came up with a little different numbers but still seems the thrust line is pointing too far up. The reason for the difference in measurement was I used the prop hub this time instead of the top of the engine. My Slingshot wing bottom chord has an incidence of 7.5 degrees relative to the boom tube and horizontal stabilizer (parallel to boom tube). The thrust line (static) is 9.5 degrees relative to the HS & boom tube, so the engine is point up only 2 degrees rather than 3.5 degrees. But it still seems to me that it should be more aligned with relative wind at cruise AOA. If my SS flies at cruise with an AOA of 7.5 degrees (guess) then the thrust line (very hard mounts so not perceptible tilting under power) is not parallel to relative wind by about 9.5 degrees. ON THE OTHER HAND... Perhaps this is by design to help offset the effect of the high position of the thrust line. Still waiting to hear back from Travis on this question. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300213#300213 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:58 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins From: "racerjerry" RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings." They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove. They also don't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available. Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better). The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#300228 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:47 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins Jerry=2C and others=2C I had this conversation about pins/rings recently with someone=2C althoug h I can't remember who at the moment. Maybe in some applications on a plane=2C a latching type pin would work. Maybe they could be installed on a plane where there is zero chance of eve r popping loose. Okay=2C fine. But=2C for me=2C on my plane=2C I choose to ONLY use the stainless steel rings...period. I make enough mistakes in life=2C to not have to worry abo ut some life-altering pin snapping loose and falling out!! When my life can depend on something as simple as the manner in which cle vis pins are secured=2C why use something that "may" snag on something and pop loose=2C when something so easy is available... namely stainless steel rings. When you secure a ring in place=2C that sucker ain't NEVER coming loose =2C until you want it to!! Mike Welch MkIII > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins > From: gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us > Date: Sun=2C 6 Jun 2010 11:26:34 -0700 > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > > > RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it hap pen once during taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings." The y have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remov e. They also don't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available. Regardless of what they say=2C I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better). The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire. > > -------- > Jerry King > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#300228 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:O N:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:47:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins From: Richard Girard McMaster Carr calls then cotter rings.: http://www.mcmaster.com/#pins/=7f0r1z They're available in four diameter s, three wire sizes, regular and stainless steel. Rick Girard Stainless Steel =97 Plain 3/16"-1/4".048"5/8"95390A316$9.73 per Pack of 100 1/4"-5/16".048"3/4"95390A31710.23 per Pack of 100 3/8"-7/16".060"1"95390A3187.00 per Pack of 50 7/16"-1/2".072"1-1/8"95390A3199.98 per Pack of 50 On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 1:26 PM, racerjerry wrote: > > RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it > happen once during taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round stainless wire > safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter > Rings." They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to > install/remove. They also don't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-l ine > shows 5 sizes available. Regardless of what they say, I was using as lar ge > a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel > better). The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD > (not ID) and made from .065 wire. > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#300228 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:21 PM PST US From: frank goodnight Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins Hi All, Been a mechanic for over 40 years and STILL learn something new almost every day. Cotter rings sound great , if for no other reason than the spring pins that came with my firestar2 often hurt my fingers , am going to order some cotter rings soon as McMaster carr opens. Thanks . Frank Goodnight Brownsville, TX PS: Got my airplane back together again , Flew 1.5 hrs today Can't wait to get back out to the high country so I can get in some high density altitude practice. The plane will have shed about 75 lbs ( extra fuel and camping gear) Hope for better results this time around. Should be at Los Lumas , New Mexico middle of next week. ________________________________ From: racerjerry Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 1:26:34 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once during taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings." They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove. They also don't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available. Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better). The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#300228 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:35 PM PST US From: "lhaggerty" Subject: Kolb-List: Safety pins Here is a tip to use when you use cotter rings in lieu of cotter pins, take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend the leading edge of the ring 1/4" 15 degrees back. this will make them easy to put on and off. Pete ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:27 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins FWIW, and IMHO: Cotter rings are a huge improvement over cotter pins/ clips in every case. I'm amazed the whole world/industry hasn't totally adopted them long ago. You won't be disappointed; use the Stainless ones. McMaster-Carr is a great outfit. do not archive Russ K On Jun 6, 2010, at 5:34 PM, frank goodnight wrote: > Hi All, > > Been a mechanic for over 40 years and STILL learn something new > almost every day. Cotter rings sound great , if for no other reason > than the spring pins that came with my firestar2 often hurt my > fingers , am going to order some cotter rings soon as McMaster carr > opens. > Thanks . > Frank Goodnight > Brownsville, TX > > PS: Got my airplane back together again , Flew 1.5 hrs today Can't > wait to get back out to the high country so I can get in some high > density > altitude practice. The plane will have shed about 75 lbs ( extra > fuel and camping gear) Hope for better results this time around. > Should be > at Los Lumas , New Mexico middle of next week. > > > From: racerjerry > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 1:26:34 PM > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins > > > RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had > it happen once during taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round > stainless wire safety rings are referred to by West Marine as > "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings." They have proven to be very > effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove. They also > don't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes > available. Regardless of what they say, I was using as large a > wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel > better). The ones I used on my Firestar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 > 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire. > > -------- > Jerry King > > > Read this topic online here: > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:33 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins Mike/all , i used stainless saftey rings-for the last 8 years=0A-I flew my KXP after finding one of the Kolb issued pins unhooked and hanging on m y lift strut-!Never a problem with the rings as you say a simple cure for a problem with my butt in the wager.Chris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________ __________________=0AFrom: Mike Welch =0ATo: kolb- list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, June 6, 2010 2:44:24 PM=0ASubject: RE: Kolb -List: Re: safety pins=0A=0AJerry, and others,=0A-=0A- I had this conve rsation about pins/rings recently with someone, although I can't remember w ho at the moment.=0A-=0A- Maybe in some applications on a plane, a latc hing type pin would work.- Maybe they could be installed on a plane where there is zero chance of ever popping loose.- Okay, fine.=0A- But, for me, on my plane, I choose to ONLY use the stainless steel rings...period. - I make enough mistakes in life, to not have to worry about some life-al tering pin snapping loose and falling out!!=0A-=0A- When my life can de pend on something as simple as the manner in which clevis pins are secured, why use something that "may" snag on something and pop loose, when somethi ng so easy is available... namely stainless steel rings.=0A-=0A- When y ou secure a ring in place, that sucker ain't NEVER coming loose, until you want it to!!=0A-=0AMike Welch=0AMkIII=0A-=0A=0A-=0A> Subject: Kolb-Li st: Re: safety pins=0A> From: gki@suffolk.lib.ny.us=0A> Date: Sun, 6 Jun 20 10 11:26:34 -0700=0A> To: kolb-list@matronics.com=0A> =0A> --> Kolb-List me ssage posted by: "racerjerry" =0A> =0A> RALPH B. HAS IT RIGHT. Round rings do not snag on tall grass - had it happen once durin g taxi IN. NOT A GOOD THING. The round stainless wire safety rings are refe rred to by West Marine as "Stainless-Steel Cotter Rings." They have proven to be very effective as well as quick & easy to install/remove. They also d on't poke holes in fingers. West Marine on-line shows 5 sizes available. Re gardless of what they say, I was using as large a wire size as I could fit through the clevis pin hole (made me feel better). The ones I used on my Fi restar II 5/16 clevis pins were 1 3/16 OD (not ID) and made from .065 wire. =0A> =0A> --------=0A> Jerry King=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> Read this topic o nline here:=0A> =0A> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300228#3 00228=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>=============== ========0A>================ =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A=0A________________________________=0AHotmail is redefini ng busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. See how. =0A =================0A=0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.