---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/07/10: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:57 AM - Re: Safety pins (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN) 2. 11:44 AM - Re: Re: Safety pins (robert bean) 3. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: Safety pins (Dana Hague) 4. 04:41 PM - Re: safety pins (Ralph B) 5. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (chris davis) 6. 05:23 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (chris davis) 7. 06:15 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (russ kinne) 8. 06:35 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (Bob) 9. 06:38 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (John Hauck) 10. 07:20 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (Dana Hague) 11. 09:29 PM - Re: Re: safety pins (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:57:22 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Safety pins From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" "lhaggerty" wrote: << Here is a tip to use when you use cotter rings in lieu of cotter pins, take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend the leading edge of the ring 1/4" 15 degrees back. this will make them easy to put on and off. Pete >> The SS rings sold at the sailboat shops come with this offset (bend) already in place. Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. Ten years ago, at Ralph B's recommendation, I installed these safety rings on all the clevis pins on my Mark-3 because I fold/unfold my plane for each flight. Excellent tip - easy to use, and I never need to worry about 'em coming off. Thanks again, Ralph! Dennis Kirby Sandia Park, NM Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 11:44:23 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Safety pins Someone posted sizes at McMaster-Carr. What is the best single size to use? I get eyestrain trying to put in those grasshopper legs. BB windy here today but lots of things to do. On 7, Jun 2010, at 12:56 PM, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN wrote: > "lhaggerty" wrote: << Here is a tip to use when you use cotter rings in lieu of cotter pins, take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend the leading edge of the ring 1/4" 15 degrees back. this will make them easy to put on and off. Pete >> > > > The SS rings sold at the sailboat shops come with this offset (bend) already in place. > Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. > > Ten years ago, at Ralph B=92s recommendation, I installed these safety rings on all the clevis pins on my Mark-3 because I fold/unfold my plane for each flight. Excellent tip ' easy to use, and I never need to worry about =91em coming off. Thanks again, Ralph! > > Dennis Kirby > Sandia Park, NM > Do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:23 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Safety pins At 12:56 PM 6/7/2010, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN wrote: >The SS rings sold at the sailboat shops come with this offset (bend) >already in place. > >Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the >clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration. -Dana -- Inflation is a result of legalized counterfeiting. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:51 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins From: "Ralph B" > Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote: > > Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration. > > -Dana Dana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring tension. In all the years using them, I've never seen a hint of them ever coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them. Ralph B -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 1000 hours 23 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 2 years flying it 120 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300419#300419 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:28 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins ME EITHER=0A-Chris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF rom: Ralph B =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, Jun e 7, 2010 7:41:31 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins=0A=0A--> Kolb-Li st message posted by: "Ralph B" =0A=0A=0A>- Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote:=0A> =0A> Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into t he tiny hole on the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.=0A> =0A> -Dana =0A=0A=0ADana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring tension. In al l the years using them, I've never seen a hint of them ever coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them.=0A=0ARalph B=0A=0A--------=0ARalph B=0AOrigi nal Firestar 447=0AN91493 E-AB=0A1000 hours=0A23 years flying it=0AKolbra 9 12UL=0AN20386=0A2 years flying it=0A120 hrs=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic o nline here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300419#30041 ======================0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:31 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins Ralph,Are you going to Oshkosh this year?I would love to meet you=0A-Chri s Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Fir efly =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ralph B =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Mon, June 7, 2010 7:41:31 P M=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins=0A=0A--> Kolb-List message posted b y: "Ralph B" =0A=0A=0A>- Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote:=0A> =0A> Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end rings working themselves out under vibration.=0A> =0A> -Dana=0A=0A=0ADana, I don' t know how a safety ring could possibly come off under vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring tension. In all the years using the m, I've never seen a hint of them ever coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit us ing them.=0A=0ARalph B=0A=0A--------=0ARalph B=0AOriginal Firestar 447=0AN9 1493 E-AB=0A1000 hours=0A23 years flying it=0AKolbra 912UL=0AN20386=0A2 yea rs flying it=0A120 hrs=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp ://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300419#300419=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ===============0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:20 PM PST US From: russ kinne Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins Dana In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more in use; admittedly mostly in boats; I've never even heard of one coming loose by itself. Seems impossible. I question your info source. Russ K do not archive On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Ralph B wrote: > > >> Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote: >> >> Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on >> the clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the >> bent end rings working themselves out under vibration. >> >> -Dana > > > Dana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under > vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring > tension. In all the years using them, I've never seen a hint of > them ever coming off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them. > > Ralph B > > -------- > Ralph B > Original Firestar 447 > N91493 E-AB > 1000 hours > 23 years flying it > Kolbra 912UL > N20386 > 2 years flying it > 120 hrs > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300419#300419 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:02 PM PST US From: "Bob" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins Had them come half way off on at least two occasions on a Tornado racing catamaran on pins that were removed maybe once a year on mast spreader wires. Sheets..i.e. ropes did slide by them occasionally, but mostly high vibration and lots of load unload cycles on the pins. Changed to no lead in and never had a further problem. Observed several occasions of turning blocks pulling out of slide tracks when circular pins came undone from sliding on decks on local racing monohulls. Personal paranoia.. probably ...but I used the unbent entry pins on my past airplanes and will use on my eventually to be completed MkIII. ----- Original Message ----- From: "russ kinne" Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins > > Dana > In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more in > use; admittedly mostly in boats; I've never even heard of one coming > loose by itself. > Seems impossible. I question your info source. > Russ K > do not archive > > > On Jun 7, 2010, at 7:41 PM, Ralph B wrote: > >> >> >>> Dana 12:56 PM 6/7/2010 wrote: >>> >>> Indeed, it makes the ring simple to install into the tiny hole on the >>> clevis pin. Easy to install, but I've heard reports of the bent end >>> rings working themselves out under vibration. >>> >>> -Dana >> >> >> Dana, I don't know how a safety ring could possibly come off under >> vibration. It would have to open up the ring against spring tension. In >> all the years using them, I've never seen a hint of them ever coming >> off. If I saw it, I'd quit using them. >> >> Ralph B >> >> -------- >> Ralph B >> Original Firestar 447 >> N91493 E-AB >> 1000 hours >> 23 years flying it >> Kolbra 912UL >> N20386 >> 2 years flying it >> 120 hrs >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300419#300419 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:05 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins > In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more in > use; admittedly mostly in boats; I've never even heard of one coming > loose by itself. > Seems impossible. I question your info source. > Russ K May depend on the application the safety rings are used. Sailboats probably are not subjected to the same high frequency vibration two stroke powered Kolb aircraft are. SS is not nearly as stress resistance as carbon steel. I use bolts and nyloc nuts. No safety clips or rings. john h mkIII ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:28 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins At 09:14 PM 6/7/2010, russ kinne wrote: > >Dana >In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more >in use; admittedly mostly in boats; I've never even heard of one >coming loose by itself. >Seems impossible. I question your info source. IIRC it was on this list, a couple of years ago when the same subject came up. -Dana -- Duelling is legal in Paraguay as long as both parties are registered blood donors. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:29:37 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: safety pins From: Richard Girard Aviation accident investigation has had the phrase, "well that's never happened before." written into a report more than once I would bet. For that reason alone I would not modify the cotter rings for easy removal. The very slight improvement isn't worth it to me. I had them on my trike when I bought it and I've removed them all for the unmodified versions. For what it's worth, if you insert a fingernail between the two wires of the ring and then turn the clevis pin acts as a wedge as you spin the ring through the hole. Easy one hand installation and removal. As for the safety clip, their one advantage is that you can secure them at the point of use by inserting a piece of cord through the loop, knotting and melting the loose end. Had them on my hang gliders like that for years. Check on assembly, double check on preflight. Never had either one go unclipped or uninstalled. Rick Girard On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 9:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > At 09:14 PM 6/7/2010, russ kinne wrote: > > > Dana > In many years of using cotter rings myself, and seeing zillions more > in use; admittedly mostly in boats; I've never even heard of one > coming loose by itself. > Seems impossible. I question your info source. > > > IIRC it was on this list, a couple of years ago when the same subject came > up. > > -Dana > -- > Duelling is legal in Paraguay as long as both parties are registered blood > donors. > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.