Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:16 AM - Re: flap info for MK lll needed (Thom Riddle)
2. 03:45 AM - Re: sea foam (Ted Cowan)
3. 06:38 AM - Re: flap info for MK lll needed (John Bickham)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (zeprep251@aol.com)
5. 06:53 AM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (robert bean)
6. 08:30 AM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (John Hauck)
7. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (Fran Losey)
8. 10:03 AM - I may come visit. (b young)
9. 10:03 AM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (b young)
10. 11:13 AM - popcorn (George Bearden)
11. 03:52 PM - Re: popcorn (Jack B. Hart)
12. 03:52 PM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (Greg)
13. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (Greg)
14. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (John Hauck)
15. 07:00 PM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (Greg)
16. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: flap info for MK lll needed (John Hauck)
17. 08:32 PM - Travis Brown's Father (John Hauck)
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| Subject: | Re: flap info for MK lll needed |
Speaking of Full FLaps.....
As I was returning to my home airport after my flight Monday morning, the prevailing
winds at pattern altitude were favoring my planned use of runway 6. Since
I was approaching from the SE I flew the cross wind leg a little off the departure
end of rwy 6 with the intention of turning to left downwind for rwy 6.
Once I got close enough to see the windsock hanging straight down, I decided I
might as well land on 24 since its threshold was just to my left about 100 yards
and 800 feet below me. I turned final pulled on full flaps (first time ever
on landing) and pushed the nose down to Vfe (top of white arc) which is 70 mph
in the Slingshot.
That was a fun and fast descent with plenty of energy left over for flare and the
touchdown was nice and easy. I've flown only two other airplanes that can do
this maneuver reliably and with confidence at such a steep descent rate. A Zenith
CH-701 and a short wing (20') Titan Tornado. One has full length flaperons
like the Slingshot and the other huge barn-door flaps that extend to 40 degrees,
like the MkIII. I really really really like my Slingshot but Kolbs are not
the only airplanes in which this sort of steep approach can be made, but doing
them gracefully is an acquired skill. I've only got about 32 hours time in
my Slingshot since I bought it last August so I'm still learning its tricks.
That said, I normally don't use any flap(eron) at all during take-off nor landing,
but it is very nice to have this capability when it is needed or desired.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do
it.
- Pablo Picasso
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300673#300673
Message 2
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I dont want to start a battle about sea foam but I have recently tried a sea
foam product call deep creep. It is a mult use penetrating lub. I have to
say, as a mechanic for about a hundred years, this is absolutely the best
stuff I have ever used. It has a spray distance of at least ten feet. Not
only penetrates stuck bolts but actually wicks into threads. It leaves a
good lubricant on the metal which seems to stay there. Used it on a stuck
slide out on a camper and wow, it really works. It is totally a petroleum
product. I also use three-in-one engine starter with a top end lub of three
in one oil in it. works great for small engines. My opinion. Ted Cowan,
Alabama, Slingshot, 912 zoom zoom
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: flap info for MK lll needed |
Hey Mr Jim,
Just want to second what John H and Preacher Pike said.
You may have seen a few videos of my little Nauga strip.
Just in case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szp1waiP4a0
That little strip has taught me a lot about flying my Kolb that I would have never
learned otherwise. One of my challenges was to try to land as short as possible.
On-going challenge with John H.
I was making full-flap, power off, super steep approaches. Like John H said, realized
I was loosing elevator authority in the rather abrupt flare. Kinda like
a bird landing on a wire and missing the wire. Sometimes results were amazingly
short landing rolls. If everything not just perfect in a span of a few
seconds, spent a little time wandering up and down. Time you don't have as the
energy bleeds off so very quickly. What Preacher Pike is referring to.
For me, I'm getting the best results (shortest landing) with full flaps and just
a hint of power for elevator authority in the middle of the flare.
Got to be careful when no power available and squeezing it in a tight spot. Been
there, done that, bent the plane!
What the temp there? Heat index 105 here today. I may come visit.
--------
Thanks too much,
John Bickham
Mark III-C w/ 912UL
St. Francisville, LA
I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that
I have the greatest respect for.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=300689#300689
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
Greg,
A lot of us on the list come from GA background,and I believe most of us
would agree that our experience in heavier aircraft did not prepare us ad
equately for the performance of high drag,low inertia, light sport aircraf
t.The list is a good source of info.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I have to say that I am a GA pilot and I do know what flying is all about,
I haven't got to fly in my Kolb yet, but I have made quite a few steep ap
proaches with full flaps in a 172. Its all about airspeed.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
GA pilots do not know what flying is all about.
I think helicopter pilots make good Kolb pilots because the sight pictur
e for approach and landing is very similar. The big windscreen is also
similar to the excellent visibility of helicopters.
When I was hauling passengers, I tried to remember to warn them of the
steep approach. Dennis Souder scared me on my first mkIII flight, when
he let the bottom fall out, and landed next to Homer's hanger on the ta
xiway.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Neilsen
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Jim
You have been busy. Send photos of the plane. You be careful you might
just end up with a second airplane or selling that firestar. You should
also have some hanger space.
I rarely use full flaps but they are really nice if you need to lose
altitude. Full flaps produce so much drag that they increase the dece
leration of the plane on round out so much that you can easily end up
below stall speed while still airborne.
I use one notch of flaps to get off the ground with standard length ge
ar legs of my MKIIIC to get off the ground quickly then retract them
right after take off.
I have found that my plane flies the same with one notch of flap with
some power on landing as no power (engine failure) and no flaps.
I got my check ride with a GA instructor yesterday in my MKIIIC. He sa
id I should warn GA trained passengers before landing. I guess I scared
him with my high angle of decent and low round out. I did some of
my best landings ever in spite of 430 lbs. of human cargo. After a half
an hour in the air he said he had seen enough and was ready to sign
my log book.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <Arksey@aol.com> wrote:
Hi group,
my neighbor purchased a used MK lll after watching me flying aro
und in the firestar enjoying life. I told him he could use my strip
and I would get him lined up with a instructer to get his license. I
did not use the flaps on the trip as I did know the proper use of
them....I was very impressed with the plane and the performace that th
e rotax 912 80 hp provides. after getting home I went up solo and tr
ied the flaps at low speed and I was impressed at full flaps how the
plane handled and it decreased stall speed...so I landed it with fu
ll flaps which i thought was a big plus....my question is this. what
is the proper use of flaps for take off if any? I think the MK lll
performs excellent with the 912 80 hp solo. I also noticed a lot
of difference in trim requiement from dual to solo....another quest
ion: at high speed the door lexan pops inward and has to be pushed
back out my hand after landing...have any of you had this problem
and what is the fix? Thanks in advance Jim Swan
Do not archive
FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
========================
===========
========================
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
As another Kolber converted from GA, I had the list to thank for my zero
damage first landing in my MkIII.
BB
do not archive
On 9, Jun 2010, at 9:42 AM, zeprep251@aol.com wrote:
> Greg,
> A lot of us on the list come from GA background,and I believe most of
us would agree that our experience in heavier aircraft did not prepare
us adequately for the performance of high drag,low inertia, light sport
aircraft.The list is a good source of info.
> G.Aman
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 pm
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
>
> I have to say that I am a GA pilot and I do know what flying is all
about, I haven't got to fly in my Kolb yet, but I have made quite a few
steep approaches with full flaps in a 172. Its all about airspeed.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Hauck
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
>
> GA pilots do not know what flying is all about.
>
> I think helicopter pilots make good Kolb pilots because the sight
picture for approach and landing is very similar. The big windscreen is
also similar to the excellent visibility of helicopters.
>
> When I was hauling passengers, I tried to remember to warn them of the
steep approach. Dennis Souder scared me on my first mkIII flight, when
he let the bottom fall out, and landed next to Homer's hanger on the
taxiway.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Richard Neilsen
> To: kolb-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
>
> Jim
>
> You have been busy. Send photos of the plane. You be careful you might
just end up with a second airplane or selling that firestar. You should
also have some hanger space.
>
> I rarely use full flaps but they are really nice if you need to lose
altitude. Full flaps produce so much drag that they increase the
deceleration of the plane on round out so much that you can easily end
up below stall speed while still airborne.
>
> I use one notch of flaps to get off the ground with standard length
gear legs of my MKIIIC to get off the ground quickly then retract them
right after take off.
>
> I have found that my plane flies the same with one notch of flap with
some power on landing as no power (engine failure) and no flaps.
>
> I got my check ride with a GA instructor yesterday in my MKIIIC. He
said I should warn GA trained passengers before landing. I guess I
scared him with my high angle of decent and low round out. I did some of
my best landings ever in spite of 430 lbs. of human cargo. After a half
an hour in the air he said he had seen enough and was ready to sign my
log book.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <Arksey@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi group,
> my neighbor purchased a used MK lll after watching me flying
around in the firestar enjoying life. I told him he could use my strip
and I would get him lined up with a instructer to get his license. I did
not use the flaps on the trip as I did know the proper use of them....I
was very impressed with the plane and the performace that the rotax 912
80 hp provides. after getting home I went up solo and tried the flaps at
low speed and I was impressed at full flaps how the plane handled and it
decreased stall speed...so I landed it with full flaps which i thought
was a big plus....my question is this. what is the proper use of flaps
for take off if any? I think the MK lll performs excellent with the 912
80 hp solo. I also noticed a lot of difference in trim requiement from
dual to solo....another question: at high speed the door lexan pops
inward and has to be pushed back out my hand after landing...have any of
you had this problem and what is the fix? Thanks in advance Jim Swan
>
> Do not archive
> FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics
.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ========================
===========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>
>
> ========================
===========
>
>
>
>
>
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
>
>
>
> ========================
===========
>
>
>
>
>
> ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ========================
===========
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: flap info for MK lll needed |
> For me, I'm getting the best results (shortest landing) with full flaps
and just a hint of power for elevator authority in the middle of the flare.
>
> Got to be careful when no power available and squeezing it in a tight
> spot. Been there, done that, bent the plane!
>
> What the temp there? Heat index 105 here today. I may come visit.
>
> --------
> Thanks too much,
>
> John Bickham
John B:
A little burst of power is great to help us get our Kolbs to cooperate.
Remember last year at Chinle, AZ, landing in a screaming cross wind on new
asphalt. Just as the mains touched I went to full power, full left rudder,
and full left brake. The shot of full power gave me enough additional
rudder authority to keep from ground looping. Besides, I was about to wet
my pants, the reason for the op stop.
Will be in Macon, Ga, this weekend and first of next week. Lost my oldest
Brother, Allen, last night, to cancer.
Stay in touch and let me know when you will be in Montgomery.
john h
mkIII
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: flap info for MK lll needed |
John my sincerest condolences Sir.
------Original Message------
From: John Hauck
Sender: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: kolb-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: flap info for MK lll needed
Sent: Jun 9, 2010 11:19
> For me, I'm getting the best results (shortest landing) with full flaps
and just a hint of power for elevator authority in the middle of the flare.
>
> Got to be careful when no power available and squeezing it in a tight
> spot. Been there, done that, bent the plane!
>
> What the temp there? Heat index 105 here today. I may come visit.
>
> --------
> Thanks too much,
>
> John Bickham
John B:
A little burst of power is great to help us get our Kolbs to cooperate.
Remember last year at Chinle, AZ, landing in a screaming cross wind on new
asphalt. Just as the mains touched I went to full power, full left rudder,
and full left brake. The shot of full power gave me enough additional
rudder authority to keep from ground looping. Besides, I was about to wet
my pants, the reason for the op stop.
Will be in Macon, Ga, this weekend and first of next week. Lost my oldest
Brother, Allen, last night, to cancer.
Stay in touch and let me know when you will be in Montgomery.
john h
mkIII
Fran Losey www.mykitlog.com/loseyf Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 8
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| Subject: | I may come visit. |
What the temp there? Heat index 105 here today. I may come visit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
john b
the temps arfe 60-65 deg f. very soft rain on and off, mostly off.
soft breeze, high based clouds,,,,,, but you better hurry, tomorrow is
forcast to be thundershowers.
boyd young
MkIII
utah
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
The list is a good source of info.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
and cookies
do not archive
Message 10
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> They think gun owners are dangerous. But they
> also think it is safe for them to try taking
> away guns from millions of gun owners.
If guns kill people, then spoons made Roseanne fat.
(cooking a buncha popcorn)
GeoB :-)
Message 11
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At 11:12 AM 6/9/10 -0700, you wrote:
>
>> They think gun owners are dangerous. But they
>> also think it is safe for them to try taking
>> away guns from millions of gun owners.
>
>If guns kill people, then spoons made Roseanne fat.
>
>(cooking a buncha popcorn)
>
>GeoB :-)
>
George,
Are you working the correct List?
do not archive
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
I am sure that it is a lot different from heavy aircraft, and I know one
of the innovators of ultralight/light sport designers. I know I will
have a lot to learn, and I have already picked up a few pointers on this
list. I look forward to flying my kolb, I think that it is going to be a
great week end toy to go buzzing around in, but I am still a GA pilot
also.
----- Original Message -----
From: zeprep251@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Greg,
A lot of us on the list come from GA background,and I believe most of
us would agree that our experience in heavier aircraft did not prepare
us adequately for the performance of high drag,low inertia, light sport
aircraft.The list is a good source of info.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I have to say that I am a GA pilot and I do know what flying is all
about, I haven't got to fly in my Kolb yet, but I have made quite a few
steep approaches with full flaps in a 172. Its all about airspeed.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
GA pilots do not know what flying is all about.
I think helicopter pilots make good Kolb pilots because the sight
picture for approach and landing is very similar. The big windscreen is
also similar to the excellent visibility of helicopters.
When I was hauling passengers, I tried to remember to warn them of
the steep approach. Dennis Souder scared me on my first mkIII flight,
when he let the bottom fall out, and landed next to Homer's hanger on
the taxiway.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Jim
You have been busy. Send photos of the plane. You be careful you
might just end up with a second airplane or selling that firestar. You
should also have some hanger space.
I rarely use full flaps but they are really nice if you need to
lose altitude. Full flaps produce so much drag that they increase the
deceleration of the plane on round out so much that you can easily end
up below stall speed while still airborne.
I use one notch of flaps to get off the ground with standard
length gear legs of my MKIIIC to get off the ground quickly then retract
them right after take off.
I have found that my plane flies the same with one notch of flap
with some power on landing as no power (engine failure) and no flaps.
I got my check ride with a GA instructor yesterday in my MKIIIC.
He said I should warn GA trained passengers before landing. I guess I
scared him with my high angle of decent and low round out. I did some of
my best landings ever in spite of 430 lbs. of human cargo. After a half
an hour in the air he said he had seen enough and was ready to sign my
log book.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <Arksey@aol.com> wrote:
Hi group,
my neighbor purchased a used MK lll after watching me flying
around in the firestar enjoying life. I told him he could use my strip
and I would get him lined up with a instructer to get his license. I did
not use the flaps on the trip as I did know the proper use of them....I
was very impressed with the plane and the performace that the rotax 912
80 hp provides. after getting home I went up solo and tried the flaps at
low speed and I was impressed at full flaps how the plane handled and it
decreased stall speed...so I landed it with full flaps which i thought
was a big plus....my question is this. what is the proper use of flaps
for take off if any? I think the MK lll performs excellent with the 912
80 hp solo. I also noticed a lot of difference in trim requiement from
dual to solo....another question: at high speed the door lexan pops
inward and has to be pushed back out my hand after landing...have any of
you had this problem and what is the fix? Thanks in advance Jim Swan
Do not archive
FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
John,
That sounds like a lot of fun, I am looking forward to learning in
my firestar, that is if I ever get it to an airport. Hopefully I won't
mess up to bad!
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Greg:
That is what I said.
Your steep, full flap 172 approach is more like a normal mkIII
approach, clean.
My favorite landing at Lakeland, with passenger, was start the
approach at 300 feet AGL, over the threshold, 40 mph, with full flaps,
push the nose over to 60 mph or a little less, nudge of a flare, and
touch down turn off in front of the tower landing to the east. With a
10 to 15 mph headwind, it was near vertical.
Easy to get 2,000 fpm rate of decent and 40 mph full flaps.
This is a tremendous safety factor, giving the proficient mkIII pilot
the ability to get into tiny forced landing area at slow speeds and very
short ground roll.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I have to say that I am a GA pilot and I do know what flying is all
about, I haven't got to fly in my Kolb yet, but I have made quite a few
steep approaches with full flaps in a 172. Its all about airspeed.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
GA pilots do not know what flying is all about.
I think helicopter pilots make good Kolb pilots because the sight
picture for approach and landing is very similar. The big windscreen is
also similar to the excellent visibility of helicopters.
When I was hauling passengers, I tried to remember to warn them of
the steep approach. Dennis Souder scared me on my first mkIII flight,
when he let the bottom fall out, and landed next to Homer's hanger on
the taxiway.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Jim
You have been busy. Send photos of the plane. You be careful you
might just end up with a second airplane or selling that firestar. You
should also have some hanger space.
I rarely use full flaps but they are really nice if you need to
lose altitude. Full flaps produce so much drag that they increase the
deceleration of the plane on round out so much that you can easily end
up below stall speed while still airborne.
I use one notch of flaps to get off the ground with standard
length gear legs of my MKIIIC to get off the ground quickly then retract
them right after take off.
I have found that my plane flies the same with one notch of flap
with some power on landing as no power (engine failure) and no flaps.
I got my check ride with a GA instructor yesterday in my MKIIIC.
He said I should warn GA trained passengers before landing. I guess I
scared him with my high angle of decent and low round out. I did some of
my best landings ever in spite of 430 lbs. of human cargo. After a half
an hour in the air he said he had seen enough and was ready to sign my
log book.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <Arksey@aol.com> wrote:
Hi group,
my neighbor purchased a used MK lll after watching me
flying around in the firestar enjoying life. I told him he could use my
strip and I would get him lined up with a instructer to get his license.
I did not use the flaps on the trip as I did know the proper use of
them....I was very impressed with the plane and the performace that the
rotax 912 80 hp provides. after getting home I went up solo and tried
the flaps at low speed and I was impressed at full flaps how the plane
handled and it decreased stall speed...so I landed it with full flaps
which i thought was a big plus....my question is this. what is the
proper use of flaps for take off if any? I think the MK lll performs
excellent with the 912 80 hp solo. I also noticed a lot of difference
in trim requiement from dual to solo....another question: at high speed
the door lexan pops inward and has to be pushed back out my hand after
landing...have any of you had this problem and what is the fix? Thanks
in advance Jim Swan
Do not archive
FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
Greg:
First time I heard anyone refer to our Kolb aircraft as "weekend toys to
go buzzing around in". However, one old Kolber down in South Florida
refers to his as the Kleenex Kolb.
What kind of "heavy" aircraft do you fly?
Many of us Kolbers are/were professional pilots in another life, both
military and civilian. Yep, we made a living at it. Still hard to
believe the Army paid me to fly helicopters that I would have flown for
free. Sure beat walking walking though.
Good luck with your new toy.
john hauck
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I am sure that it is a lot different from heavy aircraft, and I know
one of the innovators of ultralight/light sport designers. I know I will
have a lot to learn, and I have already picked up a few pointers on this
list. I look forward to flying my kolb, I think that it is going to be a
great week end toy to go buzzing around in, but I am still a GA pilot
also.
----- Original Message -----
From: zeprep251@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Greg,
A lot of us on the list come from GA background,and I believe most
of us would agree that our experience in heavier aircraft did not
prepare us adequately for the performance of high drag,low inertia,
light sport aircraft.The list is a good source of info.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I have to say that I am a GA pilot and I do know what flying is all
about, I haven't got to fly in my Kolb yet, but I have made quite a few
steep approaches with full flaps in a 172. Its all about airspeed.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
GA pilots do not know what flying is all about.
I think helicopter pilots make good Kolb pilots because the sight
picture for approach and landing is very similar. The big windscreen is
also similar to the excellent visibility of helicopters.
When I was hauling passengers, I tried to remember to warn them of
the steep approach. Dennis Souder scared me on my first mkIII flight,
when he let the bottom fall out, and landed next to Homer's hanger on
the taxiway.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Jim
You have been busy. Send photos of the plane. You be careful you
might just end up with a second airplane or selling that firestar. You
should also have some hanger space.
I rarely use full flaps but they are really nice if you need to
lose altitude. Full flaps produce so much drag that they increase the
deceleration of the plane on round out so much that you can easily end
up below stall speed while still airborne.
I use one notch of flaps to get off the ground with standard
length gear legs of my MKIIIC to get off the ground quickly then retract
them right after take off.
I have found that my plane flies the same with one notch of flap
with some power on landing as no power (engine failure) and no flaps.
I got my check ride with a GA instructor yesterday in my MKIIIC.
He said I should warn GA trained passengers before landing. I guess I
scared him with my high angle of decent and low round out. I did some of
my best landings ever in spite of 430 lbs. of human cargo. After a half
an hour in the air he said he had seen enough and was ready to sign my
log book.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <Arksey@aol.com> wrote:
Hi group,
my neighbor purchased a used MK lll after watching me
flying around in the firestar enjoying life. I told him he could use my
strip and I would get him lined up with a instructer to get his license.
I did not use the flaps on the trip as I did know the proper use of
them....I was very impressed with the plane and the performace that the
rotax 912 80 hp provides. after getting home I went up solo and tried
the flaps at low speed and I was impressed at full flaps how the plane
handled and it decreased stall speed...so I landed it with full flaps
which i thought was a big plus....my question is this. what is the
proper use of flaps for take off if any? I think the MK lll performs
excellent with the 912 80 hp solo. I also noticed a lot of difference
in trim requiement from dual to solo....another question: at high speed
the door lexan pops inward and has to be pushed back out my hand after
landing...have any of you had this problem and what is the fix? Thanks
in advance Jim Swan
Do not archive
FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
John,
The heavy bird that I refer to is just a 172, when I can afford it, I
have a IFR rating and about 250 hrs. I am the commander of my local
Civil Air Patrol Squadron and we are the custodial unit of a 172P. A
nice plane for about $70.00 for 1.5 hrs. It sounds like you have had a
very interesting career with aviation, have you had any experience with
gyrocopters?
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Greg:
First time I heard anyone refer to our Kolb aircraft as "weekend toys
to go buzzing around in". However, one old Kolber down in South Florida
refers to his as the Kleenex Kolb.
What kind of "heavy" aircraft do you fly?
Many of us Kolbers are/were professional pilots in another life, both
military and civilian. Yep, we made a living at it. Still hard to
believe the Army paid me to fly helicopters that I would have flown for
free. Sure beat walking walking though.
Good luck with your new toy.
john hauck
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I am sure that it is a lot different from heavy aircraft, and I know
one of the innovators of ultralight/light sport designers. I know I will
have a lot to learn, and I have already picked up a few pointers on this
list. I look forward to flying my kolb, I think that it is going to be a
great week end toy to go buzzing around in, but I am still a GA pilot
also.
----- Original Message -----
From: zeprep251@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Greg,
A lot of us on the list come from GA background,and I believe most
of us would agree that our experience in heavier aircraft did not
prepare us adequately for the performance of high drag,low inertia,
light sport aircraft.The list is a good source of info.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I have to say that I am a GA pilot and I do know what flying is
all about, I haven't got to fly in my Kolb yet, but I have made quite a
few steep approaches with full flaps in a 172. Its all about airspeed.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
GA pilots do not know what flying is all about.
I think helicopter pilots make good Kolb pilots because the
sight picture for approach and landing is very similar. The big
windscreen is also similar to the excellent visibility of helicopters.
When I was hauling passengers, I tried to remember to warn them
of the steep approach. Dennis Souder scared me on my first mkIII
flight, when he let the bottom fall out, and landed next to Homer's
hanger on the taxiway.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Jim
You have been busy. Send photos of the plane. You be careful
you might just end up with a second airplane or selling that firestar.
You should also have some hanger space.
I rarely use full flaps but they are really nice if you need
to lose altitude. Full flaps produce so much drag that they increase the
deceleration of the plane on round out so much that you can easily end
up below stall speed while still airborne.
I use one notch of flaps to get off the ground with standard
length gear legs of my MKIIIC to get off the ground quickly then retract
them right after take off.
I have found that my plane flies the same with one notch of
flap with some power on landing as no power (engine failure) and no
flaps.
I got my check ride with a GA instructor yesterday in my
MKIIIC. He said I should warn GA trained passengers before landing. I
guess I scared him with my high angle of decent and low round out. I did
some of my best landings ever in spite of 430 lbs. of human cargo. After
a half an hour in the air he said he had seen enough and was ready to
sign my log book.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <Arksey@aol.com> wrote:
Hi group,
my neighbor purchased a used MK lll after watching me
flying around in the firestar enjoying life. I told him he could use my
strip and I would get him lined up with a instructer to get his license.
I did not use the flaps on the trip as I did know the proper use of
them....I was very impressed with the plane and the performace that the
rotax 912 80 hp provides. after getting home I went up solo and tried
the flaps at low speed and I was impressed at full flaps how the plane
handled and it decreased stall speed...so I landed it with full flaps
which i thought was a big plus....my question is this. what is the
proper use of flaps for take off if any? I think the MK lll performs
excellent with the 912 80 hp solo. I also noticed a lot of difference
in trim requiement from dual to solo....another question: at high speed
the door lexan pops inward and has to be pushed back out my hand after
landing...have any of you had this problem and what is the fix? Thanks
in advance Jim Swan
Do not archive
FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: flap info for MK lll needed |
Greg:
Curious when you mentioned heavy aircraft experience which is 300,000
lbs max gross takeoff weight and above.
A 172 hardly qualifies as heavy.
I am strictly a VFR single engine land pilot. I fly for pleasure and to
get me to wonderful places to visit and spend time with other like
minded Kolb people.
I got to be an Army Rotary Wing Aviator late in my Army career.
Most of my aviation experience has been accumulated in the last 26 years
of building and flying Homer Kolb's wonderful little airplanes, after
retirement.
Looking back, it has been a wonderful experience, meeting and making
life long friends with many people all over the US, Canada, Alaska, and
other parts of the world.
Never was interested in gyrocopters.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
John,
The heavy bird that I refer to is just a 172, when I can afford it, I
have a IFR rating and about 250 hrs. I am the commander of my local
Civil Air Patrol Squadron and we are the custodial unit of a 172P. A
nice plane for about $70.00 for 1.5 hrs. It sounds like you have had a
very interesting career with aviation, have you had any experience with
gyrocopters?
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Greg:
First time I heard anyone refer to our Kolb aircraft as "weekend
toys to go buzzing around in". However, one old Kolber down in South
Florida refers to his as the Kleenex Kolb.
What kind of "heavy" aircraft do you fly?
Many of us Kolbers are/were professional pilots in another life,
both military and civilian. Yep, we made a living at it. Still hard to
believe the Army paid me to fly helicopters that I would have flown for
free. Sure beat walking walking though.
Good luck with your new toy.
john hauck
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 5:37 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I am sure that it is a lot different from heavy aircraft, and I
know one of the innovators of ultralight/light sport designers. I know I
will have a lot to learn, and I have already picked up a few pointers on
this list. I look forward to flying my kolb, I think that it is going to
be a great week end toy to go buzzing around in, but I am still a GA
pilot also.
----- Original Message -----
From: zeprep251@aol.com
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Greg,
A lot of us on the list come from GA background,and I believe
most of us would agree that our experience in heavier aircraft did not
prepare us adequately for the performance of high drag,low inertia,
light sport aircraft.The list is a good source of info.
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg <gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com>
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tue, Jun 8, 2010 9:06 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
I have to say that I am a GA pilot and I do know what flying is
all about, I haven't got to fly in my Kolb yet, but I have made quite a
few steep approaches with full flaps in a 172. Its all about airspeed.
----- Original Message -----
From: John Hauck
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
GA pilots do not know what flying is all about.
I think helicopter pilots make good Kolb pilots because the
sight picture for approach and landing is very similar. The big
windscreen is also similar to the excellent visibility of helicopters.
When I was hauling passengers, I tried to remember to warn
them of the steep approach. Dennis Souder scared me on my first mkIII
flight, when he let the bottom fall out, and landed next to Homer's
hanger on the taxiway.
john h
mkIII
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Neilsen
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: flap info for MK lll needed
Jim
You have been busy. Send photos of the plane. You be careful
you might just end up with a second airplane or selling that firestar.
You should also have some hanger space.
I rarely use full flaps but they are really nice if you need
to lose altitude. Full flaps produce so much drag that they increase the
deceleration of the plane on round out so much that you can easily end
up below stall speed while still airborne.
I use one notch of flaps to get off the ground with standard
length gear legs of my MKIIIC to get off the ground quickly then retract
them right after take off.
I have found that my plane flies the same with one notch of
flap with some power on landing as no power (engine failure) and no
flaps.
I got my check ride with a GA instructor yesterday in my
MKIIIC. He said I should warn GA trained passengers before landing. I
guess I scared him with my high angle of decent and low round out. I did
some of my best landings ever in spite of 430 lbs. of human cargo. After
a half an hour in the air he said he had seen enough and was ready to
sign my log book.
Rick Neilsen
1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:03 PM, <Arksey@aol.com> wrote:
Hi group,
my neighbor purchased a used MK lll after watching me
flying around in the firestar enjoying life. I told him he could use my
strip and I would get him lined up with a instructer to get his license.
I did not use the flaps on the trip as I did know the proper use of
them....I was very impressed with the plane and the performace that the
rotax 912 80 hp provides. after getting home I went up solo and tried
the flaps at low speed and I was impressed at full flaps how the plane
handled and it decreased stall speed...so I landed it with full flaps
which i thought was a big plus....my question is this. what is the
proper use of flaps for take off if any? I think the MK lll performs
excellent with the 912 80 hp solo. I also noticed a lot of difference
in trim requiement from dual to solo....another question: at high speed
the door lexan pops inward and has to be pushed back out my hand after
landing...have any of you had this problem and what is the fix? Thanks
in advance Jim Swan
Do not archive
FIRESTAR ll 503 Michigan jswan
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
ibution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 17
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| Subject: | Travis Brown's Father |
This is a late getting out to the Kolb family, and I appologise. I only
found out late this afternoon, our Travis Brown at Kolb Aircraft lost his
Dad, after an extended illness, on 1 June 2010.
Please accept my sincere condolences during your time of sorrow.
john h
mkIII
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