Kolb-List Digest Archive

Thu 06/24/10


Total Messages Posted: 5



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 07:09 AM - Re: New guy with repair questions (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN)
     2. 07:26 AM - Re: New guy with repair questions (Chris_A)
     3. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions (carl tosh)
     4. 01:42 PM - Re: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions (carl tosh)
     5. 06:25 PM - Re: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 07:09:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New guy with repair questions
    From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" <Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil>
    << From: "Chris_A" How do you guys with open trailers deal with the wings? >> Hi, Chris - I have an open, flatbed trailer that I use to transport my Mark-3 occasionally. For ground handling and for transporting, I built a tail support dolly, which also contains padded saddles for the wings when they are folded. The wheel assemblies (2) on the dolly have some shock absorption in the form of springs, and this is plenty for the usual in-and-out of the hangar. But for trips on the trailer, I place an old car tire, with partially-inflated inner tube, under the dolly. This provides superb shock dampening for the airplane. I designed the dolly specifically to be able to straddle a car tire for this purpose. Check out George Alexander's excellent website, where he has a folder with a collection of various Kolb trailering ideas. Good luck with your boom tube repair! Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul Sandia Park, NM


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:26:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: New guy with repair questions
    From: "Chris_A" <50calibercruiser@cox.net>
    Dennis, I found the pictures of your rig on his site, I like the tire idea. But I still don't understand how you keep the wings in their saddles going down the road. Thanks, Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302372#302372


    Message 3


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    Time: 11:57:04 AM PST US
    From: carl tosh <carl.tosh@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions
    I agree with- Ellery on the paper. I cut the old tube and sectioned it fo r the rivet location. Drilled the two end holes, clecoed it used the sectio n as a template for the rest of the holes. I had to warp my new H section s lightly to be able to use the old boom tube. Just opposite of what has been discussed, and cussed. My H section was very poorly fabricated by original builder. - Carl Tosh Ultrastar Rebuilder, Micro Mong Builder Machinist, Welder, Millwr ight - --- On Thu, 6/24/10, Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com> wrote: From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions I am not trying to make anyone mad but have you ever tried to use Paper for a template working with Metal- I have been a Welder Fabricator most of m y life and Paper does not work-very well- other than to make drawings o n Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Chris_A <50calibercruiser@cox.net> Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 7:49 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > On Jun 22, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > > > > Rick, I feel stupid. I've wondered how one would replace a tailboom > > and match the rivet holes. I never thought of the obvious, replace > > the H-section with a new undrilled one along with the tailboom. > > > > -Dana > > > > > > > Kolb Rebuilders, > > The best way to exactly match rivet holes and reuse the H-section is > to make a paper tube template. After removing all the rivets and the > H-section, wrap the tube tightly with a large piece of paper and tape > the paper together so that will remain together in the shape of a > paper tube after it is slid off the undamaged end of the boom tube. To > secure the paper to the boom, temporarily tape this paper tube to the > boom over the rivet holes and the bolt hole and then drill all the > holes in the paper. Now you have made an exact template. Carefully > slide the paper sleeve from the old boom and slide it in place over > the new tube and tape it securely. Carefully center punch and drill > the holes in the paper for the main bolt first, and then do the four > rivets at the ends of each leg of the H-section. Now carefully > reinsert the H-section in place and insert the main bolt. Then rivet > the ends of the H-section legs in place, MAKING SURE the H-section > legs are WEDGED TIGHT against the inside of the boom tube before > riveting. Then center punch, drill, and rivet the remaining holes. > > p.s. > > Make sure all burrs are removed from the rivet holes in the H-section > before sliding in place. A 2x4 on either side of the boom with a C > clamp to squeeze the tube a slight bit will make a tight fitting H- > section much easier to install. > > Gene Gene, Thank you for posting this. This is exactly what I came up with after racki ng my brain last night. My plan was to do this for both ends of the tube and veri fy with the plans. Is that an unrealistic expectation? Thank you guys for all the advice, none of it has fallen on deaf ears. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302303#302303 rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A


    Message 4


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    Time: 01:42:20 PM PST US
    From: carl tosh <carl.tosh@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions
    What I forgot to say is I used the sectioned old tube to drill holes to reu se old end hoops of the wings to install new tubes on false spars on Ultras tar. Sorry for the confusion. I think I confused my self. I have old timers you know. I just used original boom tube holes to locate rivet holes for n ew rear H section on the Ultrastar. Carl, Ultrastar Driver in Kansas --- On Thu, 6/24/10, carl tosh <carl.tosh@yahoo.com> wrote: From: carl tosh <carl.tosh@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions I agree with- Ellery on the paper. I cut the old tube and sectioned it fo r the rivet location. Drilled the two end holes, clecoed it used the sectio n as a template for the rest of the holes. I had to warp my new H section s lightly to be able to use the old boom tube. Just opposite of what has been discussed, and cussed. My H section was very poorly fabricated by original builder. - Carl Tosh Ultrastar Rebuilder, Micro Mong Builder Machinist, Welder, Millwr ight - --- On Thu, 6/24/10, Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com> wrote: From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions I am not trying to make anyone mad but have you ever tried to use Paper for a template working with Metal- I have been a Welder Fabricator most of m y life and Paper does not work-very well- other than to make drawings o n Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Chris_A <50calibercruiser@cox.net> Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 7:49 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > On Jun 22, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > > > > Rick, I feel stupid. I've wondered how one would replace a tailboom > > and match the rivet holes. I never thought of the obvious, replace > > the H-section with a new undrilled one along with the tailboom. > > > > -Dana > > > > > > > Kolb Rebuilders, > > The best way to exactly match rivet holes and reuse the H-section is > to make a paper tube template. After removing all the rivets and the > H-section, wrap the tube tightly with a large piece of paper and tape > the paper together so that will remain together in the shape of a > paper tube after it is slid off the undamaged end of the boom tube. To > secure the paper to the boom, temporarily tape this paper tube to the > boom over the rivet holes and the bolt hole and then drill all the > holes in the paper. Now you have made an exact template. Carefully > slide the paper sleeve from the old boom and slide it in place over > the new tube and tape it securely. Carefully center punch and drill > the holes in the paper for the main bolt first, and then do the four > rivets at the ends of each leg of the H-section. Now carefully > reinsert the H-section in place and insert the main bolt. Then rivet > the ends of the H-section legs in place, MAKING SURE the H-section > legs are WEDGED TIGHT against the inside of the boom tube before > riveting. Then center punch, drill, and rivet the remaining holes. > > p.s. > > Make sure all burrs are removed from the rivet holes in the H-section > before sliding in place. A 2x4 on either side of the boom with a C > clamp to squeeze the tube a slight bit will make a tight fitting H- > section much easier to install. > > Gene Gene, Thank you for posting this. This is exactly what I came up with after racki ng my brain last night. My plan was to do this for both ends of the tube and veri fy with the plans. Is that an unrealistic expectation? Thank you guys for all the advice, none of it has fallen on deaf ears. Chris Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302303#302303 rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:25:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions
    From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
    Mike W Laxan works great as you explained I use it my self when I feel the nee d being transparen is a plus Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:15 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions Ellery, Maybe Gene used stiff paper, I don't know. His method seems to work wel l for him. I recall needing to match rivet holes on something once, I can't remembe r exactly what it was. If I needed to match all the rivets holes along a line (like a boom tube ), I would do this method again; 1) First, drill out each end rivet completely (just the end rivet!). 2) Then cut a piece of Lexan big enough to cover every rivet hole in the line sufficiently (say, 2" x 16"). 3) Drill a hole near one end of the Lexan, and secure it in place with a cleco, to that one drilled hole. 4) Now, with the Lexan taped firmly, visually line up and drill through the other end rivet hole, and insert your second cleco. 5) Now, you've got a rectangular piece of Lexan stuck in place with a cle co at each end of the line of rivets. 6) Since it is transparent, you can now drill a 1/16" hole perfectly cent ered on each rivet. You do NOT want to drill out the rivet.....it's only a locating hole for every remaining rivet. 7) Next, after you've drilled a tiny hole centered on every remaining riv et, remove the Lexan. You can now drill out all the rivets, and remove th e "H" brace. 8) When reinstalling the H brace, all you need is to do is locate the end rivet holes, and hold the H brace in place with clecos, but you'll want to make sure you include your Lexan when you put your clecos in. 9) All that's left is to drill each locating hole deep enough into your boom tube with that 1/16" drillbit to where when you drill the holes bigg er the 1/8" drillbit doesn't wander. If you've got a good, sharp 1/16" dr illbit, you could probably go ahead and drill each hole all the way throug h. Lexan may be an alternate for some cases where paper might not work. Just an idea I did once........ Mike Welch MkIII Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions From: elleryweld@aol.com I am not trying to make anyone mad but have you ever tried to use Paper fo r a template working with Metal I have been a Welder Fabricator most of my life and Paper does not work very well other than to make drawings on Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Chris_A <50calibercruiser@cox.net> Sent: Wed, Jun 23, 2010 7:49 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Ko lb-List: New guy with repair questions ugene Zimmerman wrote: On Jun 22, 2010, at 11:16 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > Rick, I feel stupid. I've wondered how one would replace a tailboom > and match the rivet holes. I never thought of the obvious, replace > the H-section with a new undrilled one along with the tailboom. > > -Dana > > Kolb Rebuilders, The best way to exactly match rivet holes and reuse the H-section is to make a paper tube template. After removing all the rivets and the H-section, wrap the tube tightly with a large piece of paper and tape the paper together so that will remain together in the shape of a paper tube after it is slid off the undamaged end of the boom tube. To secure the paper to the boom, temporarily tape this paper tube to the boom over the rivet holes and the bolt hole and then drill all the holes in the paper. Now you have made an exact template. Carefully slide the paper sleeve from the old boom and slide it in place over the new tube and tape it securely. Carefully center punch and drill the holes in the paper for the main bolt first, and then do the four rivets at the ends of each leg of the H-section. Now carefully reinsert the H-section in place and insert the main bolt. Then rivet the ends of the H-section legs in place, MAKING SURE the H-section legs are WEDGED TIGHT against the inside of the boom tube before riveting. Then center punch, drill, and rivet the remaining holes. p.s. Make sure all burrs are removed from the rivet holes in the H-section before sliding in place. A 2x4 on either side of the boom with a C clamp to squeeze the tube a slight bit will make a tight fitting H- section much easier to install. Gene ene, Thank you for posting this. This is exactly what I came up with after rack ing my rain last night. My plan was to do this for both ends of the tube and veri fy ith the plans. Is that an unrealistic expectation? Thank you guys for all the advice, none of it has fallen on deaf ears. Chris ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=302303#302303 rget=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution ttp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List onics.com w.matronics.com/contribution The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Ho tmail. 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