Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Critique my Fuel System. (henry.voris)
2. 07:37 AM - Re: Re: Critique my Fuel System. (Richard Girard)
3. 08:24 AM - Up on a soap box for GeoB (Richard Girard)
4. 09:18 AM - Re: Up on a soap box for GeoB (robert bean)
5. 09:28 AM - Portable press for gear legs (Jmmy Hankinson)
6. 09:32 AM - Hydraulic press (Jmmy Hankinson)
7. 10:28 AM - Re: Portable press for gear legs (Thom Riddle)
8. 11:01 AM - Re: Up on a soap box for GeoB (Thom Riddle)
9. 12:06 PM - FSII rebuild coming along (Richard Pike)
10. 12:21 PM - Re: Critique my Fuel System. (JetPilot)
11. 12:31 PM - Portable press for gear legs (Jmmy Hankinson)
12. 12:55 PM - Re: Portable press for gear legs (Thom Riddle)
13. 01:26 PM - Re: Critique my Fuel System (JetPilot)
14. 01:43 PM - Re: Critique my Fuel System (JetPilot)
15. 01:58 PM - Re: FSII rebuild coming along (robert bean)
16. 02:03 PM - Re: Critique my Fuel System. (gotime242)
17. 02:23 PM - Re: Critique my Fuel System. (JetPilot)
18. 07:23 PM - Re: FSII rebuild coming along (Jack B. Hart)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Critique my Fuel System. |
Larry
Thanks for the info Got off my butt and looked around a bit My Rotax Manual sez
my thundering 447 requires 3 to 7 psi from the fuel pump Facet claims a max
pressure of 6 psi . I think it is safe to ass-u-me that, 6 psi is more than the
output of the pulse pump. But, I wonder if the pressure from the pulse pump
might add to the total pressure at the carbs float valve. If not, I can chuck
the regulator. I think I need to put a pressure gauge next to the carb, do a run-up,
and take a look
Dana,
I worry about crud fouling my fuel pumps too. After my fuel leaves the tank it
falls into a sump (lowest point) before it gets sucked out by the fuel pumps In
a former life, the sump had been a gasolator Hawaii went to ethanol in the
fuel, so I had to make a new gasket and chuck the paper filter. It seems to work
great just operating as a sump. Occasionally Ill catch a bit of crud when I
take a squirt from the sump, but the filter (next to the carb) has remained clean.
With the sump protecting the pumps, Im OK with the filter last in line,
next to the carb, where IMHO it is most effective, standing between the carb and
all sources of contamination, including the fuel pumps.
Thanks guys You help me sort this stuff out.
Aloha,
--------
Henry
Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305159#305159
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| Subject: | Re: Critique my Fuel System. |
Henry, Imagine a beautiful Saturday afternoon at a fly in after a morning o
f
hanging out with the guys and gals of you EAA chapter, watching the kids
take Young Eagles rides, having one of those great all you can eat fly in
breakfasts, and all the other good things that happen at airports. It's
finally time to head for home. You line up, take off and because your Kolb
climbs wonderfully, your at pattern altitude by mid downwind and suddenly
things get far too quiet.
Now it's not such a happy scenario. For me it was crud, a piece of plastic,
that got stuck in the fuel selector valve that was installed before the
filter. The temporary cure, to get me home, was to put a filter in the line
coming from the tank pickup. The full cure was to put pickup screens on the
bottom of the tank pickups.
The point is that your fuel system is a series of constricted passages and
if it gets in there it's trouble. Filters have a fairly large area where a
piece of crud can lodge and fuel can still get around it and get to your
engine (water on a paper filter as you've described is the exception to
this).
Rick Girard
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 2:37 AM, henry.voris <henry_voris@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Larry
>
> Thanks for the info=85 Got off my butt and looked around a bit=85 My Rota
x
> Manual sez my thundering 447 requires 3 to 7 psi from the fuel pump=85 F
acet
> claims a max pressure of 6 psi . I think it is safe to ass-u-me that, 6 p
si
> is more than the output of the pulse pump. But, I wonder if the pressure
> from the pulse pump might add to the total pressure at the carb=92s float
> valve. If not, I can chuck the regulator. I think I need to put a pressur
e
> gauge next to the carb, do a run-up, and take a look=85
>
>
> Dana,
>
> I worry about crud fouling my fuel pumps too. After my fuel leaves the ta
nk
> it falls into a sump (lowest point) before it gets sucked out by the fuel
> pumps=85 In a former life, the sump had been a gasolator =85 Hawaii went
to
> ethanol in the fuel, so I had to make a new gasket and chuck the paper
> filter. It seems to work great just operating as a sump. Occasionally I
=92ll
> catch a bit of crud when I take a squirt from the sump, but the filter (n
ext
> to the carb) has remained clean. With the sump protecting the pumps, I=92
m OK
> with the filter last in line, next to the carb, where IMHO it is most
> effective, standing between the carb and all sources of contamination,
> including the fuel pumps.
>
> Thanks guys=85 You help me sort this stuff out.
>
> Aloha,
>
> --------
> Henry
> Firefly Five-Charlie-Bravo
>
> Do Not Archive
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305159#305159
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
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| Subject: | Up on a soap box for GeoB |
*FIRST: *Give up all engine swap, kitplane, or ready to fly plane ideas, *right
now*.
*DO NOT: *spend another moment thinking about these topics. For darn sure, *DO
NOT SPEND* so much as one thin dime on any of them.
*INSTEAD:* Go to your local airport and take an introductory flight. Take as
many as you can get from different instructors as you can. You are
interviewing candidates to teach you to fly. Get recommendations from anyone
you know who has *SUCCESSFULLY* completed a pilot's license. Doesn't matter
if it's a Sport Pilot or Private ticket, just that their instructor was
capable of getting them through the process and that when the money was on
the table, that instructor's teaching got them through the tests required
for the ticket.
Spend all the money it takes to get *SOLOed. *Once your instructor is
satisfied you know enough to fly around by yourself on HIS/HER ticket, you
are ready to think about other things.
*REMEMBER THIS ABOVE ALL ELSE:* Aviation is like a self cleaning oven. It
deletes the stupid, the ill prepared, and the unlucky with equanimity. The
best you can do to prevent becoming a statistic is training, training, and
more training.
MHO, you will, of course, do as you wish.
Rick Girard
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Up on a soap box for GeoB |
Getting Hooked...
I remember my first ride (aside from a twin convair). It was a perfect
sunny early summer day in south central Ohio.
I was 18, my host was 19 and a member of the
idle rich. We rode out to the little grass airport in his Italian
sportscar
with numerous imposing sidedraft carbs on it.
The plane was red, tandem, and had wood floorboards with cracks to see
the ground below. He had a student license.
What a ride. All kinds of flawless aerobatics, he even put one of those
little plastic change purses on the top of the panel
to show how he could keep it there in all positions. The guy was more
competent than many pilots with a zillion hours.
The impressive part, to me at the time, was how he could figure a
perfect glide slope over the wires when we landed.
Of course that isn't so mysterious to me now. -But I was hooked.
BB
On 17, Jul 2010, at 11:22 AM, Richard Girard wrote:
> FIRST: Give up all engine swap, kitplane, or ready to fly plane ideas,
right now.
> DO NOT: spend another moment thinking about these topics. For darn
sure, DO NOT SPEND so much as one thin dime on any of them.
> INSTEAD: Go to your local airport and take an introductory flight.
Take as many as you can get from different instructors as you can. You
are interviewing candidates to teach you to fly. Get recommendations
from anyone you know who has SUCCESSFULLY completed a pilot's license.
Doesn't matter if it's a Sport Pilot or Private ticket, just that their
instructor was capable of getting them through the process and that when
the money was on the table, that instructor's teaching got them through
the tests required for the ticket.
> Spend all the money it takes to get SOLOed. Once your instructor is
satisfied you know enough to fly around by yourself on HIS/HER ticket,
you are ready to think about other things.
> REMEMBER THIS ABOVE ALL ELSE: Aviation is like a self cleaning oven.
It deletes the stupid, the ill prepared, and the unlucky with
equanimity. The best you can do to prevent becoming a statistic is
training, training, and more training.
> MHO, you will, of course, do as you wish.
>
> Rick Girard
>
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Portable press for gear legs |
This is a portable hydraulic press that I designed to straighten the legs of
my Firefly when I perform a not to good landing, does not happen too often
now.
The unit can be used OFF the Firefly or attached to the leg without removing
the wheel and associated parts.
Parts used.
5 inch wide channel iron
4 ton hydraulic jack, ( Harbor Freight)
I/8 x 1 inch flat iron
Heavy duty chain
Chain connectors
One jack adapter
One 1 inch conduit bending tool
3/8
Message 6
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Please excuse the posting of the e-mail of the hydraulic press.
I was not finished with the article which will include pictures when
finished.
I hit the wrong button.
Jimmy Hankinson
Firefly N6007L
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| Subject: | Re: Portable press for gear legs |
jhankin,
Do you have a photo or two of your gear leg straightener, or just the parts list?
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
We are the people our parents warned us about.
- Jimmy Buffett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305196#305196
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Up on a soap box for GeoB |
Speaking of training, training, training...
I just got back from my 2 hours of instruction required by the FAA every two years
at a minimum, which used to be called a BFR. To expand my flying knowledge
base, I spent a lot more money than would normally be required in a "just get
it over with" BFR. I got arguably the best tailwheel instructor in western NY
to give me an hour of ground school on aerobatics and an hour in-flight in his
Pitts S2B. It was not cheap but well worth the expense for several reasons:
1) I learned how to safely get out of unintended unusual attitudes, like might
occur in wake turbulence or wind shear or other big unpleasant aeronautical surprise.
2) I learned how to do decent aileron rolls, semi-decent loops, piss-poor chandelles,
and fly inverted straight and level for extended periods, among other things.
3) I learned what it feels like to fly a locomotive engine with little stubby wings
and lightening quick roll response and incredibly quick, sensitive and powerful
rudder.
4) I learned what it is like to fly with two wings and an enormous engine cowling
blocking your vision except rearwards.
5) A 260 hp engine doing aerobatics for an hour burns more than 20 gallons of 100LL.
6) MOST IMPORTANTLY, I RE-LEARNED HOW MUCH I LIKE FLYING KOLBS, which are far more
forgiving than a Pitts with infinitely better visibility.
This was an unforgettable experience which also allows me to continue flying for
another two years. To see his Pitts and several other of his airplanes click
on the following:
http://www.countrypilot.com/
Wolfgang (also an A&P I/A) is building a single seat Pitts too.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
We are the people our parents warned us about.
- Jimmy Buffett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305199#305199
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/pitts_157.jpg
Message 9
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| Subject: | FSII rebuild coming along |
Got all the various parts from two wrecks to fit agreeably into one coherent and
properly aligned airframe. Took some creative welding up and redrilling of the
holes in the rear spar fitting, but it's straight now.
Still a few months to go, but it's coming along.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305202#305202
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1170145_large_116.jpg
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Critique my Fuel System. |
Your Fuel Diagram looks very good, you have definitely done your homework and put
thought into your fuel system. Very impressive, most people just copy what
ultralight guys have been doing since the early 80's without putting any thought
into it. These are things I have been saying for years here on the list.
According to EAA, half of all engine failures in experimental aircraft are due
to a problem in the fuel system. You have hit on some very important points,
Use high quality fuel injection line from NAPA, 3.75 a foot, not the cheap 1.50
dollar a foot stuff from NAPA or other places. The injection line has much more
resistance to crushing and pinching than the cheap stuff. The worst stuff
in the world is the clear ultralight fuel tubing, it has a very short life, cracks
easily, and pinches and cuts very easily also. With a properly designed
fuel system, there is no requirement to " See " the fuel in the lines. How many
certified airplanes use cheap fuel lines for some misguided reason such as
to " See the fuel go through the lines ", ZERO ? There is a really good reason
for that.
NEVER suck fuel from above the fuel level of the tank, that just just asking for
a fuel related engine failure. Now in the top draw tanks that Kolb uses, you
can use the metal draw tube, and bring it down over the top side of the tank
with top quality fuel injection line and a fuel injection clamp that puts pressure
evenly around the line, not a cheap 1 dollar home depot clamp... Not perfect,
but good enough if you use the metal tube and top quality fuel line down
to the gascolator below the fuel level. Drilling a fuel pickup on the bottom
of the tank not dis not designed for it can be dangerous and the source of a
big leak. I use the metal tubes feeding down over the side described above,
I have great confidence in it. Mount your gascolator and fuel pump below the
level of the fuel tank, this way a pinhole leak in the hose connection, gascolator
gasket, etc. will be a slight wet spot instead of air flooding into the
system. Once the fuel is under pressure, it wont suck air.. Your fuel filter
can be mounted higher if you like.
There is no need for a pressure regulator, the Facet pumps can be bought that are
rated to deliver the correct pressure for the Rotax engine. Adding a pressure
regulator that is not needed just adds extra complication and is just something
else to go wrong.
What I do not like is your fuel filter, those filters are made in China, with very
cheap materials, there have been a lot of massive and sudden failures reported
with these filters. Each production run is many times different and cheaper
than the last, so one that someone bought years ago is not even close to the
same filter you buy now, even though it looks the same. The metal threads
has been changed to the cheapest, garbage metal available and can strip making
the end come loose, suddenly pouring fuel everywhere. The glass can also break
without warning, suddenly pouring fuel everywhere. The screen in this filter
is not fine enough to adequately protect the carburetor. Rest assured that
any general use Chinese filter you buy today will have the cheapest materials
that can be found, even if it causes the filters to fail quickly, the Chinese
will take saving 10 cents over making a good product any day. The Chinese factory
does not care if the filter fails the week after you install it. The filter
you should use is this high quality 10 micron air filter. It has several
stages of filtering internally, and a large stainless filter mesh that will stop
the smallest debris, yet not become clogged or stopped by water. This filter
is cleanable, so you only buy it once. This is huge added safety, and will
pay for itself over the years.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/micron10.php
78.00 dollars for this filter is a bargain given the huge increase in safety and
performance, and considering that it is the last filter you will ever have to
buy.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305204#305204
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| Subject: | Portable press for gear legs |
Thom, I will try to take a picture of the unit this evening, right now it is
105 here in Georgia right now.
I really wanted to take a picture of it mounted on the gear leg with it
attached to the Kolb.
Jimmy Hankinson
Firefly N6007L
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Portable press for gear legs |
Jimmy,
I know. I follow the weather down there. I'm going to be visiting my daughter in
north Atlanta 1st week of Aug. It should help remind me of why I moved north
upon retirement. It is hot enough here at only 82F or so.
I appreciate whatever photos you have, or can take at your convenience, of your
tube straightening rig.
do not archive
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
We are the people our parents warned us about.
- Jimmy Buffett
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305211#305211
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Critique my Fuel System |
The Aircraft Spruce gascolator has a very fine screen filter built into it. If
you go from Fuel Tank, to Gascolator, then Fuel Pump as in your diagram, you
will have a good source of filtering before the Facet Fuel pump that is sufficient
for its filtering requirements.
I think the system as you have it drawn in your Diagram is the best.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305213#305213
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Critique my Fuel System |
Gottime242,
BTW, I also use a Facet pump to pump fuel from my aux tank into my mains. It pumps
6 gallons into the main tanks in about 20 minutes. Its perfect, I pumps
gas into the mains at least 5 times the rate the engine consumes fuel, but not
so fast that its a problem. I just turn it on when I have used at least 6 gallons
from my mains, and let it run until I hear the facet pump start to get louder,
as is does when it goes dry, and shut it off.
I also have an overflow going to the bottom of the plane from the main tanks, so
that way if I overfill them by accident from the Aux Tank, the extra fuel just
goes into the airstream at the bottom of the plane. Its a fuel proof system,
no way to mess it up to the point of having an engine failure or fuel problem.
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305215#305215
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: FSII rebuild coming along |
The airplane looks pretty straight. Can't say the same for those guys standing
in front.
BB
do not archive
On 17, Jul 2010, at 3:06 PM, Richard Pike wrote:
>
> Got all the various parts from two wrecks to fit agreeably into one coherent
and properly aligned airframe. Took some creative welding up and redrilling of
the holes in the rear spar fitting, but it's straight now.
>
> Still a few months to go, but it's coming along.
>
> Richard Pike
> MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305202#305202
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1170145_large_116.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Critique my Fuel System. |
Jetpilot - Thanks for the words, you make a very good case to get that micron 10
fuel filter. Like you said: its only a little bit expensive ONCE.
You mentioned that you also have a facet pump that you transfer fuel with, are
both the fuel pumps you use model #40105? The ones with 2.5-4.5psi max?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305225#305225
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| Subject: | Re: Critique my Fuel System. |
Yes, I bought several of the Facet fuel Pumps rated for my 912-S, and also for
the Rotax 503 / 447 and used them. I forget the exact model number, but I looked
up the pressure ratings of the two models that CPS carries and bought the
ones of the correct pressure for each engine. I also have 4 of the 10 micro
fuel filters in 4 planes now, 2 flying and 2 under construction / repair. 2
on Rotax 912 - S and 2 of them on 2 stroke 447 engines.
The only difference I have in my installation from your diagram is that my 10 Micron
fuel filter is after the pulse pump and right before the carburetor. Its
seem like a minor difference, and I would feel safe flying either way. On my
Kolb with the 912-S, I have the 10 micron pump before the engine driven pump,
just because I did not want to mount a fuel filter on top of the hot engine,
so like I say, I am happy with either placement depending on physical layout.
With these filters, I check my carb bowls once in a while just to make sure
the floats are not starting to come apart, the carb bowls are always clean enough
to drink wine out of, never a drop of water nor even a spec of debris :)
Mike
--------
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could
have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=305229#305229
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: FSII rebuild coming along |
Richard,
Can't see the wing tips
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
At 12:06 PM 7/17/10 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Got all the various parts from two wrecks to fit agreeably into one coherent and
properly aligned airframe. Took some creative welding up and redrilling of
the holes in the rear spar fitting, but it's straight now.
>
>Still a few months to go, but it's coming along.
>
>Richard Pike
>MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
>
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