Kolb-List Digest Archive

Thu 08/19/10


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:33 AM - Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer (Dana Hague)
     2. 06:02 AM - Alum gas tank (frank goodnight)
     3. 06:02 AM - Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer (Larry Cottrell)
     4. 06:11 AM - Re: Re: VGs (zeprep251@aol.com)
     5. 06:22 AM - Re: Alum gas tank (John Hauck)
     6. 08:31 AM - Re: Alum gas tank (Mike Welch)
     7. 09:45 AM - Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer (chris davis)
     8. 12:04 PM - Re: Alum gas tank (John Hauck)
     9. 01:31 PM - Re: Alum gas tank (Jim ODay)
    10. 01:46 PM - Re: Re: Alum gas tank (John Hauck)
    11. 02:37 PM - Re: VGs (ces308)
    12. 02:48 PM - Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer (russ kinne)
    13. 02:59 PM - Re: Alum gas tank (Jim ODay)
    14. 03:11 PM - Re: Re: Alum gas tank (John Hauck)
    15. 03:32 PM - Re: Alum gas tank (Jim ODay)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:33:56 AM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer
    I was going to suggest a light wooden frame and fabric, but then I reread it and saw you wanted security. My trailer (which I didn't build, only rebuilt) also appears to be built on a boat trailer. The extra framing is perforated steel angle and some channel, like they build industrial shelving units out of, all welded together. Floor is 3/4" plywood, lower sides are 3/8" plywood, upper sides and roof are 20GA stainless (which would NOT be cheap; the previous owner must have had it laying around). I had to replace pretty much all the wood. I looked at lots of options but using plywood again was about the cheapest. Some pictures are at <http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v486/flyparafan/Kolb/Trailer/> -Dana At 02:56 AM 8/19/2010, GeoB wrote: > >I recently bought a Kolb FS-I. A trailer came with. It is a semi-converted >tilt boat trailer. It has heavy steel square tubing welded on the >periphery to widen it. Works OK, no big problem. > >I want to keep my plane out of the weather plus I want better security. I >am puzzling over the best way to enclose the thing. > >I need to keep the cost down. I have been thinking of using 1/2 EMT and >bend it to form stringers for sides and a roof with a curving transition. >I am thinking of fastening patio roofing panels, corrugated roofing, or >something on there for skin. > >I expect to use a light plywood for flooring. I may use a heavier grade >for the two tracks that the main gear roll on. > >The trailer is lightly sprung, and is great for the light-weight plane. I >need to keep weight down so I don't have to add a leaf to the springs >making the ride harsher. > >The tilt feature isn't all that important to me. It has a hand-crank boat >winch with a wide nylon strap near the front. I may do a spring-over-axle >conversion in order to get more ground clearance, and to better match my >4x4. This would tend to minimize scraping the rear of the trailer on >valley-gutters. > >Thinking of a vertical sort of boat prow on the front and the back. > >I am looking for ideas on skin and the stringers and well... really, ideas >on everything. How to join the stringers to one another? What would be a >cheap(ish) available light(ish) skin material? Shower enclosure gelcoat >fiberglass panels? I have been watching craigslist for used aluminum or >galvanized roofing panels. Maybe corrugated fiberglass panels? > >Thanks >GeoB > >-------- >GeoB > >&quot;Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR >drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors&quot; > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309357#309357 > > -- As I learn the innermost secrets of the people around me, they reward me in many ways to keep me quiet.


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:02:46 AM PST US
    From: frank goodnight <frank.goodnight@att.net>
    Subject: Alum gas tank
    Hi All,=0A=0AI need to make an alum gas tank for my firestar. Not sure- w hat thickness- or =0Awhat type of alum I need to order.=0Acan anyone out there help me? Thanks..=0A=0AFrank- Goodnight=0Afirestar2 HKS=0ABrownsvil le , Tx=0A


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:02:46 AM PST US
    From: "Larry Cottrell" <lcottrell@fmtcblue.com>
    Subject: Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer
    What would be a cheap(ish) available light(is) skin material? Shower enclosure gel coat fiberglass panels? I have been watching craigslist for used aluminum or galvanized roofing panels. Maybe corrugated fiberglass panels? I guess it all depends on how long you want it to last. I built a trailer for my Firestar and used corrugated roofing material in the color that I liked. I long ago gave up building anything temporary. Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address.


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:11:09 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: VGs
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Thanks Chris, When I became the owner of Will.s MK-3 the VGs had already been installed. Never had the chance to fly it without them,so a comparison wasn't practic al.BUT, I had the chance to fly another MK-3C 100 hp without VGs and with a modified tail assy,(offset vertical, lowered horiz ontal).Now that owner is looking at VGs and he has some time in my MK-3 an d likes the difference in performance. I could not determine the brand tha t are on mine hence the inquiry to Will. You had the chance to see the difference, with/without VGs didn't you? What is your take on them in your MK-3? Thanks G.Aman Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: ces308 <ces308@ldaco.com> Sent: Wed, Aug 18, 2010 6:37 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: VGs Gary, I put the AIR WAVE VG's on mine,,,....$50.00 for a box of 100....I put I think ,96 on the wing and 68 I believe it was on the tail...vertical and horizontal... chris ambrose M3X/Jabiru 143.8 hrs N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309321#309321 ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== ======================== ===========


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:22:35 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Alum gas tank
    Frank/Gang: I find that .050" 5052 aluminum works well. Marine and aviation fuel tank fabricators use 5052. Brother Jim built my fuel tank in 1991. Since then it has flown more than 3,000.0 hours and had more than 15,000 gals of gas pumped through it. Still sealed up tighter than Dick's hat band. john h mkIII ----- Original Message ----- From: frank goodnight Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:59 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Alum gas tank Hi All, I need to make an alum gas tank for my firestar. Not sure what thickness or what type of alum I need to order. can anyone out there help me? Thanks.. 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b+6OV0LM1SVuTu6JLv5cJqLP7ncF5ckpTnKQy7Z8JDKU59udqeGZNjb/ADfr8vkx/ls2bNm3/ucR prs1ja8zJtTs+TZt2N/Dy7fLj/02Ej8JbeD+BajTU8d6bp+jDwvV0K6Oj6jhp081OpVq9vD4I55v LWgBACAEAIAQB1nH1f5r9b3YyUxY+kPqx7n6vux82hTnj4ZFKb6/9Nrv/ob97t3/AFI/03++JfvP yv0f9pRE3Tvjdr/b4zraF/dJ8TtfC+J/I5tl/wDRxf6B/ey/6cfwX6sPT/afd+TTDUfifievxGOs /wBx+N/u8ZcsQjliAEAeJkn8Cun8N+on/GP3D4P3j5H3YAjv/IP/ACt+7f8A0H1n4n5UAf/Z


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:31:17 AM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Alum gas tank
    >I find that .050" 5052 aluminum works well. (for fuel tanks) >john h >mkIII John=2C Frank=2C Kolb guys in general=2C Don't forget to include baffles in your tank design=2C Frank. BTW=2C since you mentioned aluminum=2C I thought I'd pass along my favorite supplier=2C Online Metal Supply. They don't carry everything =2C but what they do have is the best prices I've seen. http://www.onlinemetalsupply.com/ I have to call them in a couple of minutes for some .050 AL sheet & some 3/4" angle AL. Tell Diane Mike sent ya. Mike Welch MkIII


    Message 7


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    Time: 09:45:45 AM PST US
    From: chris davis <capedavis@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer
    George I built a trailer for my firestar KXP out of an old boat trailer that I lightened up the springs on and added better shocks to it worked great . I covered it with the shrinkwrap that they use to wrap boatsfor winter storage , I thought it would last one year and it lasted FIVE ! it only cost me a couple hundred dollars installed and I bet if I had done it again I could do it myself as it is very much like heat shrinking aircraft fabric only easier cause you can use a torch to shrink it and glue it together!Hope this helps and Im sure you can buy the shrinkwrap from a marine supplycatalog you find online. Chris Chris Davis KXP 503 492 hrs Glider Pilot Disabled from crash building Firefly ----- Original Message ---- From: GeoB <gab16@sbcglobal.net> Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 2:56:03 AM Subject: Kolb-List: Ideas on enclosing trailer I recently bought a Kolb FS-I. A trailer came with. It is a semi-converted tilt boat trailer. It has heavy steel square tubing welded on the periphery to widen it. Works OK, no big problem. I want to keep my plane out of the weather plus I want better security. I am puzzling over the best way to enclose the thing. I need to keep the cost down. I have been thinking of using 1/2 EMT and bend it to form stringers for sides and a roof with a curving transition. I am thinking of fastening patio roofing panels, corrugated roofing, or something on there for skin. I expect to use a light plywood for flooring. I may use a heavier grade for the two tracks that the main gear roll on. The trailer is lightly sprung, and is great for the light-weight plane. I need to keep weight down so I don't have to add a leaf to the springs making the ride harsher. The tilt feature isn't all that important to me. It has a hand-crank boat winch with a wide nylon strap near the front. I may do a spring-over-axle conversion in order to get more ground clearance, and to better match my 4x4. This would tend to minimize scraping the rear of the trailer on valley-gutters. Thinking of a vertical sort of boat prow on the front and the back. I am looking for ideas on skin and the stringers and well... really, ideas on everything. How to join the stringers to one another? What would be a cheap(ish) available light(ish) skin material? Shower enclosure gelcoat fiberglass panels? I have been watching craigslist for used aluminum or galvanized roofing panels. Maybe corrugated fiberglass panels? Thanks GeoB -------- GeoB &quot;Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors&quot; Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309357#309357


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:04:13 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Alum gas tank
    >I find that .050" 5052 aluminum works well. (for fuel tanks) >john h >mkIII John, Frank, Kolb guys in general, Don't forget to include baffles in your tank design, Frank. BTW, since you mentioned aluminum, I thought I'd pass along my favorite supplier, Online Metal Supply. Mike Welch MkIII Mike W/Gang: I try to get all my material from Kolb Aircraft. Travis knows what the requirements are, and usually has the item on hand to ship immediately. It is in the best interest of all Kolb enthusiast, especially those of us that have been with Kolb for many years, and hope for many more years of support from them, to help them out as much as we can. Baffles are one of many requirements for fabricating a good fuel tank for a Kolb. Thanks for that bit of info. Do have other requirements one should consider when building an aluminum fuel tank for a Kolb? john h mkIII - Kolb customer for more than 26 years...


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:31:27 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alum gas tank
    From: "Jim ODay" <jimoday@hotmail.com>
    This is the set up I had in my FSII. The tank is .070 (forgot the alloy) and it held 8 gallons. BARELY fit into the spot without cutting any tubes. Tank had a 1/2 baffle installed. Had a sight gauge on it but was worried about that so I took it off and welded the holes shut. Had a sending unit on the tank with a float and that worked very well and was accurate. Used it when flying and filling. The tank had two outlets so that it could drain from both the front and rear, on opposite corners to minimize the chance to un-port the supply to the strainer. The pic with blue tape on the tank was during the time I installed a new fill fitting, the original did not work well. I ended up with a male cam lock on the tank and a female cam lock cap. The locking arms could be secured when used in flight and easily opened for fueling. I ended up making a set up to fill it remote using clear hose and cam lock couplers, that worked well and as long as I did not over fill, the operation was dry. It was a nice set up, but I always wished I would have had the plastic tanks, easier to fill, watch, see inside, can get more fuel on board........ Fly safe guys and gals. Jim -------- Jim O'Day Fargo, ND Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309451#309451


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:46:27 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Alum gas tank
    Had a sight gauge on it but was worried about that so I took it off and welded the holes shut. Had a sending unit on the tank with a float and that worked very well and was accurate. Used it when flying and filling. Jim O'Day Fargo, ND Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot Hi Jim O/Gang: Hardly worth all the money and effort for an additinal 3 gals of fuel. I built an 18 gal tank for my original FS. Used the area up top and behind the bulkhead to mount it. This opened up the area below for my cargo compartment. I use the same set up in my MKIII, but had room for a 25 gal tank. I also use a fuel sight gauge. Have gotten excellent service out of it for the life of the tank with no problems. john h mkIII


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:37:58 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: VGs
    From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
    Gary.. if you go to You Tube and search ces308 I have videos on there from before and after....there is on on there where I am cruising at 35 mph,making turns and what ever and I could not do that before...I never got slower than 45...it just felt like it wanted to stop flying. chris ambrose m3x/jab Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309458#309458


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:48:30 PM PST US
    From: russ kinne <russkinne@mac.com>
    Subject: Re: Ideas on enclosing trailer
    Chris Some members may not know this, but up north, in the spring, there are ACRES of boat shrink-wrap peeled off of winter-stored boats & available for free. It is recycled and melted down but you can get a whole bunch for the asking. Good stuff too, even glue-able into bigger sheets. On Aug 19, 2010, at 12:39 PM, chris davis wrote: > > George I built a trailer for my firestar KXP out of an old boat > trailer that I > lightened up the springs on and added better shocks to it worked > great . I > covered it with the shrinkwrap that they use to wrap boats for > winter storage , > I thought it would last one year and it lasted FIVE ! it only cost > me a couple > hundred dollars installed and I bet if I had done it again I could > do it myself > as it is very much like heat shrinking aircraft fabric only easier > cause you can > use a torch to shrink it and glue it together! Hope this helps and > Im sure you > can buy the shrinkwrap from a marine supply catalog you find > online. Chris > Chris Davis > KXP 503 492 hrs > Glider Pilot > Disabled from crash building Firefly > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: GeoB <gab16@sbcglobal.net> > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 2:56:03 AM > Subject: Kolb-List: Ideas on enclosing trailer > > > I recently bought a Kolb FS-I. A trailer came with. It is a semi- > converted tilt > boat trailer. It has heavy steel square tubing welded on the > periphery to widen > it. Works OK, no big problem. > > I want to keep my plane out of the weather plus I want better > security. I am > puzzling over the best way to enclose the thing. > > I need to keep the cost down. I have been thinking of using 1/2 EMT > and bend it > to form stringers for sides and a roof with a curving transition. I > am thinking > of fastening patio roofing panels, corrugated roofing, or > something on there > for skin. > > I expect to use a light plywood for flooring. I may use a heavier > grade for the > two tracks that the main gear roll on. > > > The trailer is lightly sprung, and is great for the light-weight > plane. I need > to keep weight down so I don't have to add a leaf to the springs > making the ride > harsher. > > > The tilt feature isn't all that important to me. It has a hand- > crank boat winch > with a wide nylon strap near the front. I may do a spring-over-axle > conversion > in order to get more ground clearance, and to better match my 4x4. > This would > tend to minimize scraping the rear of the trailer on valley-gutters. > > Thinking of a vertical sort of boat prow on the front and the back. > > I am looking for ideas on skin and the stringers and well... > really, ideas on > everything. How to join the stringers to one another? What would be > a cheap(ish) > available light(ish) skin material? Shower enclosure gelcoat > fiberglass panels? > I have been watching craigslist for used aluminum or galvanized > roofing panels. > Maybe corrugated fiberglass panels? > > Thanks > GeoB > > -------- > GeoB > > &quot;Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like > NASCAR > drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors&quot; > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309357#309357 > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:59:56 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alum gas tank
    From: "Jim ODay" <jimoday@hotmail.com>
    John and Gang, A lot of the things I did along the build were hardly worth the money or effort. The entire inside was all lined with a nice fuzzy fabric, just like a trunk of a nice car. Function - none. I was thinking that this thing would be light enough to be an UL but as things not worth the money and effort were added, it became fat. I called the tank a 5 gallon tank but it held 8, but if you only put 5 in it, I figured it could be called that. Before the bird found its new home, I was scoping out how to add more fuel. And, 8 was not enough fuel on board, more gallons = more options. I was looking at the plastic tanks thinking I could get 12 gallons on. Never saw a way to add 18! OMG, that would is a bladder expander. Relief tube would be added next. And, yes, the sight guage was fine and dead ass simple and reliable, but, I could not see it so, the electric gauge.....hardly worth the effort or money, yep agree. And with unnecessary money and effort the topic, I had a nice electric clock installed on my panel, not a digital thing stick on thing, one with real hands and a sweep second hand. I always wear a watch, what was I thinking. Jim Still watching you guys and what you are up to. I am enjoying my Citabria a lot, I take the door off in nice days and it reminds me of the view from the Kolb, but not even close to the view from a Kolb. -------- Jim O'Day Fargo, ND Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309464#309464


    Message 14


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    Time: 03:11:17 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Alum gas tank
    Jim O/Gang: Sorry you took my comments the wrong way. The way to get an 18 gal tank in the top rear of an original FS was build it the same shape as the area it was going to be placed in... We did the same thing to get a 25 gal tank in the MKIII. An 18 gal tank is no more difficult to build than an 8 gal. john h mkIII A lot of the things I did along the build were hardly worth the money or effort. Jim Still watching you guys and what you are up to. I am enjoying my Citabria a lot, I take the door off in nice days and it reminds me of the view from the Kolb, but not even close to the view from a Kolb. -------- Jim O'Day Fargo, ND Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot


    Message 15


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    Time: 03:32:30 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alum gas tank
    From: "Jim ODay" <jimoday@hotmail.com>
    I never take anything the wrong way. My wife reminds me all the time that is a good thing that not everyone thinks like me. And after 30 years of constant reminding, I do listen and learn from others. Your comment just reminded me of messing with that little bird, and fond memories for sure. She was a custom build, but aren't they all. My post was the result of laughing at myself thinking about that clock! It did look cool with the snazzy red second hand. :D But that nice black interior lining, that was over the top! -------- Jim O'Day Fargo, ND Former Firestar II Builder/Pilot Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309468#309468




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