---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 08/23/10: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:40 AM - Re: test () 2. 12:58 AM - Re: Fuel tank () 3. 03:16 AM - Re: OT old date on msg OT (Thom Riddle) 4. 10:19 AM - Re: OT old date on msg OT (Pat Ladd) 5. 02:09 PM - Re: fuel tank (Charlie England) 6. 09:13 PM - Re: Fuel tank (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 7. 09:43 PM - Re: fuel tank (Richard Girard) 8. 09:43 PM - Re: fuel tank (Richard Girard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:40:15 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: test Reached the other side of the world OK Downunder MK111c ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:41 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel tank I have welded a fair bit of alum with ox- acetylene , some as thin as your tank but I would not be keen on welding a fuel tank this way. You need to clean all the oxidization off the aly before starting to weld it ..I think on a tank you may have difficulty with blowing holes ,well I know I would . You may also find that eventually you will get a leak along side your weld . This would depend on stress /vibration .You do loose strength in the area where the weld bonds with the base metal . If it was mine I would look at welding the problem area using argon shield then putting a patch over the weld . I may be wrong with this advise as most of the welding of alum I have done has been boat props and window frames. If you have a good handle on the oxy - acetylene why not get a couple of bits of alum the thickness of your tank and give it a go . I have always had best results by using a unfluxed rod and used a separate flux. From memory its a liquid air flux. Polish both the rod and area to be welded with wire wool first and weld as soon as possible after that . There is a very short time between the base metal { puddling } being ready to weld and slumping away. I have welded a boat prop on the side of the lake using a propane torch and some old alum as a fill simply by polishing { filing } first then not using any flux . Don't know how long it lasted but the boat it was on disappeared off into the distance.What I am trying to say is that yes you can weld this material with oxy - acetylene ,you just need some practice .But a fuel tank ? Please note I am not a welder by trade, I have held a marine welding certificate for electric welding and completed a gas welding course many years ago. There will be others on this list who may have better advise. Regards Downunder MK111c ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:22 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: OT old date on msg OT From: "Thom Riddle" do not archive 'cuz this ain't Kolb related GeoB, Next time you are in the market for a new computer, consider moving to a Mac. This is not a sales pitch, just letting you know that once you move and get used to the slightly different user interface, you won't be happy with less. I switched about 6 years ago and have zero regrets. My wife broke the display on her MacBook a couple months ago... she sat on it :-(. I priced a new display for about $200 installed cost. She decided she wanted to go back to Windows with a new computer and bought a Toshiba netbook for less than $400. Now she is cursing Bill Gates again and is going to bite the bullet and get her 4 year old Mac display fixed, and put the netbook on the shelf... as a bookend and reminder of her folly. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 The world is round; it has no point. - Adrienne E. Gusoff Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=309850#309850 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:19:08 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: OT old date on msg OT George, re Russ Kine warning about backing up. I collect aviation prints . Mainly WW2 actions with signatures of those involved. I have done this for more than 20 years. The signatures are irreplaceable. Douglas Bader, Sailor Malan, Macky Steinhoff, Adolf Galland,Chuck Yeager.etc plus many others not so famous. I had details of their medals, what planes they flew, what squadrons they were in. How many `kills`.The story of the action portrayed... About 10 years ago someone gave me a `Collectors Program` and I collated all this info, arranged it in the same order for every picture and transferred the lot to my comp. The comp. blew up recently and I lost everything. Although a few files were rescued none of my aviation Print files made it. Was I backed up?. Was I *********! I look at the work require to reconstruct my data and I shudder. A lot of the info, what I paid for the prints for example just doesn`t exist any more. All for the want of a backing up routine. 20 years work down the Swannee for the want of a bit of common sense. Pat ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:09:50 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel tank Another option, if you haven't already cut metal, is to rivet them. It's not difficult (it can even be done with 'pop' rivets) & then seal the tank with 'pro-seal' type fuel sealant (multiple brands available), or slosh the tank with some of John's tractor slosh. If this option interests you, I can give you some more info on how to do it. For me, at least, it's *much* easier than trying to weld aluminum. Charlie > Frank: > > Let a pro do it for you. There is probably a shop in Brownsville that > specializes in marine fuel tanks. It is very difficult to weld up a good > aluminum tank that will not have pin holes, even with a good welder and a > TIG outfit. > > I also slosh seal my tanks. If there is a tiny pin hole in there somewhere, > sloshing will insure that it is sealed. I tiny pin hole can drive you nuts > with its constant seep/ooze and the smell of gasoline in the cockpit. > > In addition, I slosh seal antique tractor fuel tanks, the last was 74 years > old. They will leak at their soldered seams, and nearly always have rusted > through on the bottom where moisture collects. > > Of strict importance is to insure the slosh sealer is compatible with auto > gas/alcohol and av gas. > > john h > mkIII ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:13:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel tank From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Do not use wire wool unless it is made of stainless steel or it will cont aminate your area to be welded I have been a welder by trade most of my life the way I would attack that fuel tank is with a welding machine that has High Freq and a tig torch wi th Argon Shielding gas for a good strong good looking weld Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: aoldman@xtra.co.nz Sent: Mon, Aug 23, 2010 3:30 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Fuel tank I have welded a fair bit of alum with ox- acetylene , some as thin as your tank but I would not be keen on welding a fuel tank this way. You need to clean all the oxidization off the aly before starting to weld it .I think on a tank you may have difficulty with blowing holes ,well I know I would . You may also find that eventually you will get a leak along side your weld . This would depend on stress /vibration .You do loose strength in the area where the weld bonds with the base metal . If it was mine I woul d look at welding the problem area using argon shield then putting a patch over the weld . I may be wrong with this advise as most of the welding of alum I have done has been boat props and window frames. If you have a good handle on the oxy - acetylene why not get a couple of bits of alum the thickness of you r tank and give it a go . I have always had best results by using a unflux ed rod and used a separate flux. From memory its a liquid air flux. Polish both the rod and area to be welded with wire wool first and weld as soon as possible after that . There is a very short time between the base meta l { puddling } being ready to weld and slumping away. I have welded a boat prop on the side of the lake using a propane torch and some old alum as a fill simply by polishing { filing } first then not using any flux . Don 't know how long it lasted but the boat it was on disappeared off into the distance.What I am trying to say is that yes you can weld this material with oxy - acetylene ,you just need some practice .But a fuel tank ? Please note I am not a welder by trade, I have held a marine welding certi ficate for electric welding and completed a gas welding course many years ago. There will be others on this list who may have better advise. Regards Downunder MK111c ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel tank From: Richard Girard As long as we're talking alternatives, use composites and slosh the inside. Far easier than riveting of welding. Rick Girard On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Charlie England wrote: > > Another option, if you haven't already cut metal, is to rivet them. It's > not difficult (it can even be done with 'pop' rivets) & then seal the tank > with 'pro-seal' type fuel sealant (multiple brands available), or slosh the > tank with some of John's tractor slosh. > > If this option interests you, I can give you some more info on how to do > it. For me, at least, it's *much* easier than trying to weld aluminum. > > Charlie > >> Frank: >> >> Let a pro do it for you. There is probably a shop in Brownsville that >> specializes in marine fuel tanks. It is very difficult to weld up a good >> aluminum tank that will not have pin holes, even with a good welder and a >> TIG outfit. >> >> I also slosh seal my tanks. If there is a tiny pin hole in there >> somewhere, >> sloshing will insure that it is sealed. I tiny pin hole can drive you >> nuts >> with its constant seep/ooze and the smell of gasoline in the cockpit. >> >> In addition, I slosh seal antique tractor fuel tanks, the last was 74 >> years >> old. They will leak at their soldered seams, and nearly always have >> rusted >> through on the bottom where moisture collects. >> >> Of strict importance is to insure the slosh sealer is compatible with auto >> gas/alcohol and av gas. >> >> john h >> mkIII >> > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:43:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: fuel tank From: Richard Girard Dang, should have been OR welding. Rick On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 9:07 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > As long as we're talking alternatives, use composites and slosh the inside. > Far easier than riveting of welding. > > Rick Girard > > > On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:09 PM, Charlie England wrote: > >> > >> >> Another option, if you haven't already cut metal, is to rivet them. It's >> not difficult (it can even be done with 'pop' rivets) & then seal the tank >> with 'pro-seal' type fuel sealant (multiple brands available), or slosh the >> tank with some of John's tractor slosh. >> >> If this option interests you, I can give you some more info on how to do >> it. For me, at least, it's *much* easier than trying to weld aluminum. >> >> Charlie >> >>> Frank: >>> >>> Let a pro do it for you. There is probably a shop in Brownsville that >>> specializes in marine fuel tanks. It is very difficult to weld up a good >>> aluminum tank that will not have pin holes, even with a good welder and a >>> TIG outfit. >>> >>> I also slosh seal my tanks. If there is a tiny pin hole in there >>> somewhere, >>> sloshing will insure that it is sealed. I tiny pin hole can drive you >>> nuts >>> with its constant seep/ooze and the smell of gasoline in the cockpit. >>> >>> In addition, I slosh seal antique tractor fuel tanks, the last was 74 >>> years >>> old. They will leak at their soldered seams, and nearly always have >>> rusted >>> through on the bottom where moisture collects. >>> >>> Of strict importance is to insure the slosh sealer is compatible with >>> auto >>> gas/alcohol and av gas. >>> >>> john h >>> mkIII >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Kolb Mk IIIC > 582 Gray head > 4.00 C gearbox > 3 blade WD > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be > unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. > - G.K. Chesterton > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. 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