Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - That pesky ELSA re-registration problem (Richard Girard)
2. 10:36 AM - Annual Condition Inspection checklist for Kolbra (Ralph B)
3. 11:24 AM - Re: Annual Condition Inspection checklist for Kolbra (Ralph B)
4. 11:52 AM - Scott Thompson's accident (Mike Welch)
5. 02:04 PM - Re: Scott Thompson's accident (Mike Welch)
6. 02:20 PM - Re: Scott Thompson's accident (PCKing)
7. 02:41 PM - my email address (Mike Welch)
8. 04:51 PM - Here's what I have gathered; (Mike Welch)
9. 05:36 PM - Re: Here's what I have gathered; (ces308)
10. 05:42 PM - Re: Here's what I have gathered; (Ralph B)
11. 07:25 PM - Re: Here's what I have gathered; (PCKing)
12. 07:47 PM - Re: Scott Thompson's accident (John Hauck)
13. 07:56 PM - Re: Here's what I have gathered; (Mike Welch)
14. 08:03 PM - Re: Scott Thompson's accident (Daniel Myers)
15. 08:09 PM - Re: Scott Thompson's accident (Mike Welch)
16. 09:27 PM - Re: Here's what I have gathered; (Richard Girard)
17. 09:39 PM - Re: Scott Thompson's accident (Daniel Myers)
18. 10:01 PM - Re: Scott Thompson's accident (Mike Welch)
Message 1
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Subject: | That pesky ELSA re-registration problem |
After much thought about how to make it legal to re-register an ELSA that
the owner has allowed the registration to expire under the terms of the new
rule I sent the following to the applicable FAA personnel this morning.
"Dear Sirs, There is a problem with the new rule for triennial
re-registration of aircraft when it is applied to experimental light sport
aircraft (ELSA) that were registered under the provisions of FAR 21.191
i(1).
If an owner of an ELSA fails to re-register during the applicable period and
the registration expires there is no legal means to register the aircraft
again.
FAR 21.191 i(1) expired on January 3, 2008. Form 8050-88A (Affidavit of
Ownership) that is required to be filed along with 8050-1 to register an
ELSA has been revised so that the only two options for registering an ELSA
are through FAR 21.191 i(2) (aircraft built from a kit of a qualifying
special light sport aircraft (SLSA)) and FAR 21.190 (essentially for
manufacturers who need to register a prototype to do compliance testing of
an SLSA).
I believe there is a simple way to fix this problem. Revise form 8050-88A to
include an option to the effect, "this aircraft was previously registered as
N_______ under the provisions of FAR 21.191 i(1) and the paperwork is on
file with the FAA". I believe wording like this or similar would allow an
errant owner to re-register the aircraft following expiration with a minimum
of problems and prevent those who might try to use the provision to register
an aircraft that had not previously been registered.
Thank you for your time."
I did this after spending a good portion of yesterday morning talking and
writing to various officials in the FAA about the problem. It occurred to me
late last night that the easiest way to get something fixed when there is a
problem is to present a solution to those who can remedy it. What the heck,
it's worth a try.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 2
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Subject: | Annual Condition Inspection checklist for Kolbra |
Travis Brown from Kolb asked it I would post the Annual Condition inspection checklist
for the Kolbra. This checklist will work for other Kolbs too.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
23 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
2 years flying it
120 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312658#312658
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/annual_inspection_checklist_179.doc
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Annual Condition Inspection checklist for Kolbra |
After the inspection is finished, post these words in the aircraft logbook:
date
I certify this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with the scope
and detail of appendix D to Part 43 and found to be in a condition for safe
operation.
Flight time: XXX.X hours
name of inspector
cert #xxxxxxxx
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
23 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
2 years flying it
120 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312666#312666
Message 4
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Subject: | Scott Thompson's accident |
Kolb guys=2C
I have tried to find out exactly what happened to cause Scott's fatal cra
sh.
Why? Because it matters a HELL of a lot to me!! At first=2C I thought I'd
share what
I've found with the entire list=2C then=2C I thought someone may gripe abou
t it.
So=2C if anyone wants to know some of the details about what happened=2C
including
what Scott and I discussed a few days prior to his maiden flight=2C email m
e off
the Kolb list=2C and I will share with you what I have found out.
Mike Welch
Message 5
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Subject: | Scott Thompson's accident |
List members=2C
I've had a few guys check in=2C but I'm waiting a little while for
a few more before we get the conversation going.
The primary reason is for the 'off-list' discussion is I can picture
someone asking me "who the hell do you think you are.....?" Me? Nobody.
Just a friend of Scott's that would like to figure out what happened=2C
that's all. I sick and damn tired of hearing about my Kolb buddies
dieing. I'd like to find out why they died...and do my best not to repeat
their 'mistakes'=2C without trying to pass judgement on them.
Mike Welch
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Scott Thompson's accident |
Mike,
You may not have received many offline requests because everyone on the
list doesn't have your email address.
I met Scott at AirVenture this year. We spoke about where to source
aileron and flap control seals. I was sad to hear that he'd passed away
test flying something he was so proud of.
I'd like to know what happened.
Peter C. King
pc.king@comcast.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:00 PM
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Scott Thompson's accident
List members,
I've had a few guys check in, but I'm waiting a little while for
a few more before we get the conversation going.
The primary reason is for the 'off-list' discussion is I can picture
someone asking me "who the hell do you think you are.....?" Me?
Nobody.
Just a friend of Scott's that would like to figure out what happened,
that's all. I sick and damn tired of hearing about my Kolb buddies
dieing. I'd like to find out why they died...and do my best not to
repeat
their 'mistakes', without trying to pass judgement on them.
Mike Welch
Message 7
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Subject: | my email address |
My email address is=3B mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com (don't forget the '7'!!!)
Mike Welch
Message 8
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Subject: | Here's what I have gathered; |
List members=2C I have had many members ask me to bring this subject matte
r out in the
open. Plus=2C there are way too many people now=2C for me to reply to. (a
pproaching 30+)
Here is what I have this far!!
My initial thought was to discuss Scott's accident openly with this list
=2C but then I thought
I'd be criticized by someone for acting like an investigator. Well=2C I'm
NOT an investigator=2C
but I certainly am curious about the facts that caused Scott's death=2C esp
ecially since I do
not want to duplicate them.
Then=2C I thought maybe the subject would be best discussed privately bet
ween those only
who show an interest. Last count=2C I've had about 14 responders=2C so may
be we should just
bring this out in the open.
(I had the same concern regarding John Ratcliffe's accident a few months
ago. Yet=2C I didn't
say anything=2C and John was soon forgotten=2C it appears. I did some chec
king on his situation=2C
and it seems he must have stalled near turning base to final=2C and nosed i
t in.)
With regard to Scott=2C here is what I have found out. This is by NO me
ans any kind of official
report=2C nor do I profess to have all the answers. Additionally=2C I acce
pt any and all new information
that may correct anything that I may misstate.
A few days before Scott made his intitial flight=2C I asked him where he
had his main wing's and
his h. stabilizers set at (since the Oshkosh photos made the h.s. look like
they were too high)
His answer to me was " the main wing is set at where Bryan (@ Kolb Aircraft
) told him to set them."
He went on to say "the h. stabilizers are set like the factory recommends
=2C but after he's flown
for awhile=2C he can adjust that setting later. (I wish!!)
So=2C at this point=2C as far as I know=2C he had the wing incidences and
hor. stabilizers incidences set
according to the factory recommended locations!
Next=2C when I read one of the news reports from one of the local news s
ources=2C I saw where they
said "according to the initial investigators=2C there didn't 'appear' to be
anything wrong with the
airplane. That would seem to make sense=2C knowing what a perfectionist Sc
ott was.
The weather was basically calm=2C although at 8:00pm=2C when the accident
happened=2C twilight was
setting. Light=2C however=2C is NOT likely to be a factor.
From discussing this situation with 'others'=2C I have been told Scott ha
d some introductory flights
in a MkIII. Most likely=2C Scott would not have flown solo during this int
roductory flight.
In one of the news articles=2C it mentioned Scott got his Sport Pilot li
cense last year. This would
indicate he probably didn't have a lot of flying time=2C especially when yo
u consider he was spending
a lot of time trying to finish building his plane! Scott was=2C you could
say=2C 'a low-time' pilot.
So=2C up to this point=2C the plane itself=2C the weather=2C the lighting
=2C and the wing's incidences=2C don't appear
to have caused the accident.
What's left?? According to Carol=3B Scott took off and flew around a cou
ple of times=2C and when he came
in to land=2C it just nose-dived in. It landed initially on the pacement
=2C but continued to tumble onto the
grass.
What does this tell us? If Carol is complete in her description=2C and a
ll Scott did was "fly around a
couple of times" =2C and then try to land=2C this tells us he did NOT climb
to altitude and explore the plane's
flying parameters. It primarily tells us he did not find out the plane's E
XACT stall speed=2C and now we'll
never know!
With the fact that Scott was=3B
A) a low-time pilot=2C and
B) flying a plane that he may not have known the stall speed of
C) the mishap occurred at the runway threshold=2C coming in for his 1st lan
ding
I am led to believe he stalled the plane on short-final=2C where it nose-di
ved into the runway=2C and rolled.
If these events are indeed accurate and correct=2C I am very sad=2C becau
se they seem to be so avoidable.
I will miss Scott. I'm am sorry he misjudged the situation=2C and let it g
et out of control (if these facts
are accurate).
Training=2C people=2C training!! Having crashed an ultralight similar to
these circumstances=2C all I can say
is these accidents can be avoided=2C or at least minimized with proper flig
ht education.
These are the facts as I've been able to acertain. If anyone knows more
=2C please share it with us.
If I've mistated something=2C please correct the record.
Best regards to all=2C
Mike Welch
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Here's what I have gathered; |
Thank you Mike,
I am sorry for Scott,but it does appear he made a terrible mistake,however,It's
nice to here there doesn't appear to have been a fault of the aircraft.
These are fun airplanes to fly,but to an even greater degree because of there lack
of weight to keep things going,you need to be very aware of your airspeed
on final...where my 172 flies right through a wind gust,my M3X will stop flying
and you can never forget that.
Thanks again for the information...every one CAN learn from this ,if they listen.
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru 150.3 hrs 2500. total
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312697#312697
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Here's what I have gathered; |
Mike, I'm not an accident investigator either, but I do know that many fatal accidents
occur due to stall-spins on landing. I was once told, "If there is any
one thing to remember about flying, it's airspeed". This is especially true upon
landing. It would be better to come in hot and use up runway than to bend
up your airplane or hurt yourself. It's a fine line sometimes to slow it up or
go off the end of a short runway. I tend to keep more speed than most pilots
and maybe this has saved me a few times. Kolb's, like other light aircraft have
more built-in drag than heavy and clean ones. They tend to lose speed more quickly.
This means keeping the power on and nose down until it's on the ground.
It's all about speed. Without that, the wings don't lift.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
23 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
2 years flying it
120 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312698#312698
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Here's what I have gathered; |
Mike,
Thank you.
Brian Carpenter (Rainbow Aviation) just did a webinar titled "GA to LSA:
Make a Safe Transition" He makes a compelling case for maintaining
airspeed on final because of the low mass and high drag of the fat
ultralight LSAs. He describes them as a cotton ball compared to the GA
golf ball. The highest percentage of LSA accidents occur with GA pilots
at the stick.
The webinar is archived at
http://www.eaavideo.org/channel.aspx?ch=ch_webinars
Peter C. King
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 7:48 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Here's what I have gathered;
List members, I have had many members ask me to bring this subject
matter out in the
open. Plus, there are way too many people now, for me to reply to.
(approaching 30+)
Here is what I have this far!!
My initial thought was to discuss Scott's accident openly with this
list, but then I thought
I'd be criticized by someone for acting like an investigator. Well,
I'm NOT an investigator,
but I certainly am curious about the facts that caused Scott's death,
especially since I do
not want to duplicate them.
Then, I thought maybe the subject would be best discussed privately
between those only
who show an interest. Last count, I've had about 14 responders, so
maybe we should just
bring this out in the open.
(I had the same concern regarding John Ratcliffe's accident a few
months ago. Yet, I didn't
say anything, and John was soon forgotten, it appears. I did some
checking on his situation,
and it seems he must have stalled near turning base to final, and
nosed it in.)
With regard to Scott, here is what I have found out. This is by NO
means any kind of official
report, nor do I profess to have all the answers. Additionally, I
accept any and all new information
that may correct anything that I may misstate.
A few days before Scott made his intitial flight, I asked him where
he had his main wing's and
his h. stabilizers set at (since the Oshkosh photos made the h.s. look
like they were too high)
His answer to me was " the main wing is set at where Bryan (@ Kolb
Aircraft) told him to set them."
He went on to say "the h. stabilizers are set like the factory
recommends, but after he's flown
for awhile, he can adjust that setting later. (I wish!!)
So, at this point, as far as I know, he had the wing incidences and
hor. stabilizers incidences set
according to the factory recommended locations!
Next, when I read one of the news reports from one of the local
news sources, I saw where they
said "according to the initial investigators, there didn't 'appear' to
be anything wrong with the
airplane. That would seem to make sense, knowing what a perfectionist
Scott was.
The weather was basically calm, although at 8:00pm, when the
accident happened, twilight was
setting. Light, however, is NOT likely to be a factor.
From discussing this situation with 'others', I have been told Scott
had some introductory flights
in a MkIII. Most likely, Scott would not have flown solo during this
introductory flight.
In one of the news articles, it mentioned Scott got his Sport Pilot
license last year. This would
indicate he probably didn't have a lot of flying time, especially when
you consider he was spending
a lot of time trying to finish building his plane! Scott was, you
could say, 'a low-time' pilot.
So, up to this point, the plane itself, the weather, the lighting,
and the wing's incidences, don't appear
to have caused the accident.
What's left?? According to Carol; Scott took off and flew around a
couple of times, and when he came
in to land, it just nose-dived in. It landed initially on the
pacement, but continued to tumble onto the
grass.
What does this tell us? If Carol is complete in her description,
and all Scott did was "fly around a
couple of times" , and then try to land, this tells us he did NOT
climb to altitude and explore the plane's
flying parameters. It primarily tells us he did not find out the
plane's EXACT stall speed, and now we'll
never know!
With the fact that Scott was;
A) a low-time pilot, and
B) flying a plane that he may not have known the stall speed of
C) the mishap occurred at the runway threshold, coming in for his 1st
landing
I am led to believe he stalled the plane on short-final, where it
nose-dived into the runway, and rolled.
If these events are indeed accurate and correct, I am very sad,
because they seem to be so avoidable.
I will miss Scott. I'm am sorry he misjudged the situation, and let
it get out of control (if these facts
are accurate).
Training, people, training!! Having crashed an ultralight similar
to these circumstances, all I can say
is these accidents can be avoided, or at least minimized with proper
flight education.
These are the facts as I've been able to acertain. If anyone knows
more, please share it with us.
If I've mistated something, please correct the record.
Best regards to all,
Mike Welch
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Scott Thompson's accident |
Mike W:
Have you discussed your findings with the NTSB?
Maybe your information would help in their investigation and their
determination of the cause of the accident.
john h
mkIII
Rock House, OR
I have tried to find out exactly what happened to cause Scott's
fatal crash.
Why? Because it matters a HELL of a lot to me!! At first, I thought
I'd share what
I've found with the entire list, then, I thought someone may gripe
about it.
So, if anyone wants to know some of the details about what happened,
including
what Scott and I discussed a few days prior to his maiden flight,
email me off
the Kolb list, and I will share with you what I have found out.
Mike Welch
Message 13
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Subject: | Here's what I have gathered; |
Peter=2C
Certainly there is no disputing that some GA pilots do seem to have troub
le
transitioning from the factory iron to the lighter=2C less mass SLA or ligh
tplanes.
However=2C in Scott's case=2C I'm afraid that "transitioning" wasn't the
issue=2C because
since he only got his Sport Pilot license last year=2C he couldn't have had
very many
hours in GA airplanes. At least=2C that's what I'm led to believe.
Additionally=2C Carol described him as 'coming in for a landing' and then
he sort of
"nose-dived". This scenario is much more indicative of an approach-to-land
ing-
stall=2C rather than the typical GA to LSA failure to handle the mass diffe
rences
between the two (at touchdown).
Airspeed is one thing you cannot ignor when flying an airplane=2C lest th
e ground
rise up and smite thee!!!
Mike Welch
Mike=2C
Thank you.
Brian Carpenter (Rainbow Aviation) just did a webinar titled "GA to LSA: Ma
ke a Safe Transition" He makes a compelling case for maintaining airspeed o
n final because of the low mass and high drag of the fat ultralight LSAs. H
e describes them as a cotton ball compared to the GA golf ball. The highest
percentage of LSA accidents occur with GA pilots at the stick.
The webinar is archived at
http://www.eaavideo.org/channel.aspx?ch=ch_webinars
Peter C. King
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Welch
Sent: Thursday=2C September 16=2C 2010 7:48 PM
Subject: Kolb-List: Here's what I have gathered=3B
List members=2C I have had many members ask me to bring this subject matte
r out in the
open. Plus=2C there are way too many people now=2C for me to reply to. (a
pproaching 30+)
Here is what I have this far!!
My initial thought was to discuss Scott's accident openly with this list
=2C but then I thought
I'd be criticized by someone for acting like an investigator. Well=2C I'm
NOT an investigator=2C
but I certainly am curious about the facts that caused Scott's death=2C esp
ecially since I do
not want to duplicate them.
Then=2C I thought maybe the subject would be best discussed privately bet
ween those only
who show an interest. Last count=2C I've had about 14 responders=2C so may
be we should just
bring this out in the open.
(I had the same concern regarding John Ratcliffe's accident a few months
ago. Yet=2C I didn't
say anything=2C and John was soon forgotten=2C it appears. I did some chec
king on his situation=2C
and it seems he must have stalled near turning base to final=2C and nosed i
t in.)
With regard to Scott=2C here is what I have found out. This is by NO me
ans any kind of official
report=2C nor do I profess to have all the answers. Additionally=2C I acce
pt any and all new information
that may correct anything that I may misstate.
A few days before Scott made his intitial flight=2C I asked him where he
had his main wing's and
his h. stabilizers set at (since the Oshkosh photos made the h.s. look like
they were too high)
His answer to me was " the main wing is set at where Bryan (@ Kolb Aircraft
) told him to set them."
He went on to say "the h. stabilizers are set like the factory recommends
=2C but after he's flown
for awhile=2C he can adjust that setting later. (I wish!!)
So=2C at this point=2C as far as I know=2C he had the wing incidences and
hor. stabilizers incidences set
according to the factory recommended locations!
Next=2C when I read one of the news reports from one of the local news s
ources=2C I saw where they
said "according to the initial investigators=2C there didn't 'appear' to be
anything wrong with the
airplane. That would seem to make sense=2C knowing what a perfectionist Sc
ott was.
The weather was basically calm=2C although at 8:00pm=2C when the accident
happened=2C twilight was
setting. Light=2C however=2C is NOT likely to be a factor.
From discussing this situation with 'others'=2C I have been told Scott ha
d some introductory flights
in a MkIII. Most likely=2C Scott would not have flown solo during this int
roductory flight.
In one of the news articles=2C it mentioned Scott got his Sport Pilot li
cense last year. This would
indicate he probably didn't have a lot of flying time=2C especially when yo
u consider he was spending
a lot of time trying to finish building his plane! Scott was=2C you could
say=2C 'a low-time' pilot.
So=2C up to this point=2C the plane itself=2C the weather=2C the lighting
=2C and the wing's incidences=2C don't appear
to have caused the accident.
What's left?? According to Carol=3B Scott took off and flew around a cou
ple of times=2C and when he came
in to land=2C it just nose-dived in. It landed initially on the pacement
=2C but continued to tumble onto the
grass.
What does this tell us? If Carol is complete in her description=2C and a
ll Scott did was "fly around a
couple of times" =2C and then try to land=2C this tells us he did NOT climb
to altitude and explore the plane's
flying parameters. It primarily tells us he did not find out the plane's E
XACT stall speed=2C and now we'll
never know!
With the fact that Scott was=3B
A) a low-time pilot=2C and
B) flying a plane that he may not have known the stall speed of
C) the mishap occurred at the runway threshold=2C coming in for his 1st lan
ding
I am led to believe he stalled the plane on short-final=2C where it nose-di
ved into the runway=2C and rolled.
If these events are indeed accurate and correct=2C I am very sad=2C becau
se they seem to be so avoidable.
I will miss Scott. I'm am sorry he misjudged the situation=2C and let it g
et out of control (if these facts
are accurate).
Training=2C people=2C training!! Having crashed an ultralight similar to
these circumstances=2C all I can say
is these accidents can be avoided=2C or at least minimized with proper flig
ht education.
These are the facts as I've been able to acertain. If anyone knows more
=2C please share it with us.
If I've mistated something=2C please correct the record.
Best regards to all=2C
Mike Welch
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.
com/Navigator?Kolb-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Scott Thompson's accident |
Class move John I like it
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 16=2C 2010=2C at 3:23 PM=2C "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrot
e:
> Mike W:
>
> Have you discussed your findings with the NTSB?
>
> Maybe your information would help in their investigation and their determ
ination of the cause of the accident.
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Rock House=2C OR
> I have tried to find out exactly what happened to cause Scott's fatal
crash.
> Why? Because it matters a HELL of a lot to me!! At first=2C I thought I
'd share what
> I've found with the entire list=2C then=2C I thought someone may gripe ab
out it.
>
> So=2C if anyone wants to know some of the details about what happened
=2C including
> what Scott and I discussed a few days prior to his maiden flight=2C email
me off
> the Kolb list=2C and I will share with you what I have found out.
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>
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>
Message 15
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Subject: | Scott Thompson's accident |
>Mike W:
>Have you discussed your findings with the NTSB?
>Maybe your information would help in their investigation and their determi
nation of >the cause of the accident.
>john h
>mkIII
John H=2C
No=2C I haven't=2C but I will be calling them tomorrow. But the fact is
=2C I shared
what little information I dug up=2C and packaged into one concise email. T
he
information I gathered was either reading it in news articles relating to t
he
crash (in otherwords...public information)=2C my emails with Scott=2C just
prior
to his flight=2C and telephone conversations with a couple of Kolb list mem
bers.
I'm simply trying to save lives. Do you have a problem with my discussi
on?
Am I supposed to contact that NTSB to show a concern for Kolb pilots?
Mike Welch
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Here's what I have gathered; |
Whoa! Let's get something straight. Gusts and wind affect glide path and
ground speed, not airspeed. The danger is inexperienced pilots who get
fixated on a point and pull back on the stick in an effort to maintain glide
toward that point. The only thing that counts is airspeed, period.
As I told Mike when we talked on Sunday, I have a mantra that goes on in my
head, and sometimes out loud, from the moment I pull power back from cruise
to set up an approach. It's just two words, Hold 50. If you watched the
video I made about the sight picture as it changes for flap settings, you
can hear me over the sound of the 582 saying, "turning final, HOLD 50". It's
my choice of approach airspeed for my Mk III based upon the stall speeds I
documented. It makes absolutely no difference if I hold some power in
reserve or close the throttle completely, it's HOLD 50 and it stays HOLD 50
until I pull back on the stick to round out and let her settle to the
ground. If I'm a little too high on approach, which I actually prefer, I can
slip Zulu Delta to lose altitude a little faster, and I still HOLD 50.
Rick Girard
On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 9:18 PM, PCKing <pc.king@comcast.net> wrote:
> Mike,
>
> Thank you.
>
> Brian Carpenter (Rainbow Aviation) just did a webinar titled "GA to LSA:
> Make a Safe Transition" He makes a compelling case for maintaining airspeed
> on final because of the low mass and high drag of the fat ultralight LSAs.
> He describes them as a cotton ball compared to the GA golf ball. The highest
> percentage of LSA accidents occur with GA pilots at the stick.
>
> The webinar is archived at
>
> http://www.eaavideo.org/channel.aspx?ch=ch_webinars
>
> Peter C. King
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
> *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 7:48 PM
> *Subject:* Kolb-List: Here's what I have gathered;
>
> List members, I have had many members ask me to bring this subject matter
> out in the
> open. Plus, there are way too many people now, for me to reply to.
> (approaching 30+)
> Here is what I have this far!!
>
> My initial thought was to discuss Scott's accident openly with this
> list, but then I thought
> I'd be criticized by someone for acting like an investigator. Well, I'm
> NOT an investigator,
> but I certainly am curious about the facts that caused Scott's death,
> especially since I do
> not want to duplicate them.
> Then, I thought maybe the subject would be best discussed privately
> between those only
> who show an interest. Last count, I've had about 14 responders, so maybe
> we should just
> bring this out in the open.
>
> (I had the same concern regarding John Ratcliffe's accident a few months
> ago. Yet, I didn't
> say anything, and John was soon forgotten, it appears. I did some checking
> on his situation,
> and it seems he must have stalled near turning base to final, and nosed it
> in.)
>
> With regard to Scott, here is what I have found out. This is by NO
> means any kind of official
> report, nor do I profess to have all the answers. Additionally, I accept
> any and all new information
> that may correct anything that I may misstate.
>
> A few days before Scott made his intitial flight, I asked him where he
> had his main wing's and
> his h. stabilizers set at (since the Oshkosh photos made the h.s. look like
> they were too high)
> His answer to me was " the main wing is set at where Bryan (@ Kolb
> Aircraft) told him to set them."
> He went on to say "the h. stabilizers are set like the factory recommends,
> but after he's flown
> for awhile, he can adjust that setting later. (I wish!!)
> So, at this point, as far as I know, he had the wing incidences and hor.
> stabilizers incidences set
> according to the factory recommended locations!
>
> Next, when I read one of the news reports from one of the local news
> sources, I saw where they
> said "according to the initial investigators, there didn't 'appear' to be
> anything wrong with the
> airplane. That would seem to make sense, knowing what a perfectionist
> Scott was.
>
> The weather was basically calm, although at 8:00pm, when the accident
> happened, twilight was
> setting. Light, however, is NOT likely to be a factor.
>
> From discussing this situation with 'others', I have been told Scott had
> some introductory flights
> in a MkIII. Most likely, Scott would not have flown solo during this
> introductory flight.
> In one of the news articles, it mentioned Scott got his Sport Pilot
> license last year. This would
> indicate he probably didn't have a lot of flying time, especially when you
> consider he was spending
> a lot of time trying to finish building his plane! Scott was, you could
> say, 'a low-time' pilot.
>
> So, up to this point, the plane itself, the weather, the lighting, and
> the wing's incidences, don't appear
> to have caused the accident.
>
> What's left?? According to Carol; Scott took off and flew around a
> couple of times, and when he came
> in to land, it just nose-dived in. It landed initially on the pacement,
> but continued to tumble onto the
> grass.
> What does this tell us? If Carol is complete in her description, and all
> Scott did was "fly around a
> couple of times" , and then try to land, this tells us he did NOT climb to
> altitude and explore the plane's
> flying parameters. It primarily tells us he did not find out the plane's
> EXACT stall speed, and now we'll
> never know!
>
> With the fact that Scott was;
> A) a low-time pilot, and
> B) flying a plane that he may not have known the stall speed of
> C) the mishap occurred at the runway threshold, coming in for his 1st
> landing
>
> I am led to believe he stalled the plane on short-final, where it
> nose-dived into the runway, and rolled.
>
> If these events are indeed accurate and correct, I am very sad, because
> they seem to be so avoidable.
> I will miss Scott. I'm am sorry he misjudged the situation, and let it get
> out of control (if these facts
> are accurate).
>
> Training, people, training!! Having crashed an ultralight similar to
> these circumstances, all I can say
> is these accidents can be avoided, or at least minimized with proper flight
> education.
>
> These are the facts as I've been able to acertain. If anyone knows more,
> please share it with us.
> If I've mistated something, please correct the record.
>
> Best regards to all,
> Mike Welch
>
>
> *
>
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c*
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Scott Thompson's accident |
Mike=2C my uncle died in my kolb and no one knows what happened except for
him. Kolbs Are great planes but are very unforgiving. I continue to fly Kol
bs only because I know not to get close to that stall speed. I have only ow
ned two Kolbs but I know the limits..this guy was on his first flight=2C it
's a terrible situation because he didn't know the kolb and it's limits.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhoned
On Sep 16=2C 2010=2C at 11:06 PM=2C Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com> wr
ote:
> >Mike W:
>
> >Have you discussed your findings with the NTSB?
>
> >Maybe your information would help in their investigation and their deter
mination of >the cause of the accident.
>
> >john h
> >mkIII
>
> John H=2C
>
> No=2C I haven't=2C but I will be calling them tomorrow. But the fact i
s=2C I shared
> what little information I dug up=2C and packaged into one concise email.
The
> information I gathered was either reading it in news articles relating to
the
> crash (in otherwords...public information)=2C my emails with Scott=2C jus
t prior
> to his flight=2C and telephone conversations with a couple of Kolb list m
embers.
>
> I'm simply trying to save lives. Do you have a problem with my discus
sion?
> Am I supposed to contact that NTSB to show a concern for Kolb pilots?
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Scott Thompson's accident |
Mike=2C my uncle died in my kolb and no one knows what happened except for
him. Kolbs Are great planes but are very unforgiving. I continue to fly Kol
bs only because I know not to get close to that stall speed. I have only ow
ned two Kolbs but I know the limits..this guy was on his first flight=2C it
's a terrible situation because he didn't know the kolb and it's limits.
Daniel
Daniel=2C
You are exactly right (with your last statement). I am afraid it is poss
ible it is as simple as
he may have simply misjudged what he was doing. Of course=2C we will never
know the whole truth now.
It is only my intention to help educate those of us who fly=2C or are yet
to fly=2C their Kolb aircraft.
Crashing and dieing does little good to both the families left behind and t
he reputation of the aircraft. I
would like to reduce the damage by analyzing what we know=2C and learn from
our errors. Believe it or
not=2C there may be people who have a problem with that.
Mike Welch
My condolences regarding your uncle=2C Daniel.
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