---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 10/04/10: 15 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:10 AM - Re: HKS & Kolb (Jimmy Young) 2. 12:52 AM - Re: HKS & Kolb (Jimmy Young) 3. 03:23 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 10/03/10 (Ted Cowan) 4. 05:26 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 10/03/10 (Ted Cowan) 5. 08:41 AM - Re: HKS (McCarthy Tom) 6. 09:09 AM - Re: HKS (McCarthy Tom) 7. 09:14 AM - Re: HKS (McCarthy Tom) 8. 12:43 PM - Re: HKS (robert bean) 9. 12:53 PM - tail boom question (awcbs) 10. 01:06 PM - Re: tail boom question (william sullivan) 11. 05:49 PM - Another new Kolb person (Brian and Laurie) 12. 07:24 PM - Re: tail boom question (awcbs) 13. 08:06 PM - Re: Another new Kolb person (Mike Welch) 14. 08:37 PM - Re: Another new Kolb person (Richard Pike) 15. 09:01 PM - HELP ! SNOW SKI PLANS (ces308) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:24 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS & Kolb From: "Jimmy Young" > I am in the final stage of installing a HKS on my Slingshot. My question to those that have done it on any Kolb are, what gearbox ratio, and is it installed up or down, and what prop type and size are you running. My configuration is a 3.47 gear box mounted up, and a borrowed 68" 3 blade warp set to 17 1/2 degree pitch. There is plenty of room to install up to a 72", but I'm trying to get the most speed and compromise climb. any input would be appreciated. Thom, Here is a link to Jerry Olenik's report on flight testing an HKS on a Slingshot. www.greenskyadventures.com/EnginePricing/HKS/Kolb/image.htm I watched Jerry fly this Slingshot around the pattern in January of '08 at his home field in Forida. It performed fine, and Jerry goes about 210 lbs. or so. I don't see why your Slingshot should perform any differently with the HKS. I had Jerry install an HKS on my Firestar II in July of '09. I've got 140 hrs on the engine and have had no trouble with it at all. My FS II weighs 435 lbs. empty no fuel, and 750 lbs. or so w/ me, 13 gal fuel, & some gear. I get a 550-700 fpm best climb rate on average. Mine has the 2.58 gearbox and a 66" 2-blade Powerfin prop. Good luck with your project - -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314569#314569 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:52:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: HKS & Kolb From: "Jimmy Young" Tom, After looking closely at some photos I took of Jerry flying the HKS powered Slingshot, I noticed the N# is 863GB. That would be your plane. I guess the guy you bought it from removed the HKS for some reason. Well, at least you now know it's had one on before. -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314570#314570 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolb_slingshot_w_hks_700_06_188.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:45 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 10/03/10 I have been listening to all of you talk about thrust line, etc on your kolbs. Some Slingshot talk also. I am wondering at this point if the slingshot people have raised the rear of their engine. If you do not, the thrust will literally push you over. I learned this over five hundred hours ago. Mike Highsmith put me up to it and he was very correct. I have the 912 ul raised in the rear off the mounts 7/8s of an inch higher than the front mount. You see, the angle of attack of the wing on the slingshot is only 9 degrees rather than the 12 degrees of the average other kolbs. The boom of the slingshot flies mostly straight and level at most speeds, including very fast. It does not continually rise as do the MkIIIs and such. If you do not raise the engine in the rear it will push you over and the faster you go the worse it gets. It will work against itself. On take-off I learned very quickly (thanks to Hauck) you only use 75 to 80 percent power until you wheels are clear and you are climbing. Relieves the torque both to the left and nosing over. If you need further information or pics, let me know. I would think 60 hp from an HK would be rather slow for a slingshot. It has such a short wing it needs power to sustain flight. I found a 582 was good but a 912 put some of the weight forward and worked wonders. Actually flew better than the 582. I would not want to fly it with less than 65 hps. Of course, I only burn 3 gals an hour at 80/85 mph cruise compared to the 4/5 gals an hour with the 582. I also went to a longer three blade taper point from warp. Too bad I still have the rom, rom in the engine but thanks to a better muffler system, it is tolerable now. Trial and error brought me to the answers and I hope you have good luck on your experimentation away from a workable solution. Ted Cowan, Alabama 912UL zoom zoom. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:26:48 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 7 Msgs - 10/03/10 I decided to send a pic of my little slingshot idling, waiting to take off. Note the angle of the blade in relation to the boom. Ted Cowan ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:41:41 AM PST US From: McCarthy Tom Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS I have a Firestar I with 5 ribs, that I have never flown. I have been planning to install a Generac on it. Could you tell me why the 5 rib couldn't be upgraded to a 4-stroke? Thanks Geo George, First of all, I make no claims to be an authority on Kolbs, that job clearly belongs to several others on this list that I have great respect for and appreciate very much. My post should have read, "I" wouldn't upgrade a 5 rib Firestar with a four stroke. I believe that Homer designed it only with the 377 Rotax in mind, and I would be cautious to add any more weight on top, and even more afraid of the vibrations that the Generac will create on the entire airframe. When I bought this Firestar many years ago, it had 178 hours on it and I weighed 180 LBS, and the plane weighed 325 LBS, its performance was incredible, all with 35 HP Rotax. I now weigh 215LBS before breakfast, and the performance is still very adequate. If you read between the lines, I guess what I'm saying is to consider a 377 instead of the Generac, it has done well for me over 500 hours. I have experimented quite a bit along the way with different motors, and the 377 performed overall the best "for me". Just for reference, I found that the 447 was OK, but did the same thing using more gas, and felt overpowered, and could exceed my VNE of 90 in a blink. Believe it or not, the smoothest motor was a 2SI 460(new Cayuna), but I got tired of it being finicky and put it on the shelf- If you were local, I would let you try it for yourself. I flew 2 1/2 hours yesterday low and slow- until I couldn't feel my bottom side anymore, and still love the Firestar as much as when I got it. I'll have to part with it soon as 3 planes do not fit well in the hanger. Tom McCarthy N514 TM Zenith 601HD 240 hrs N414 TM Kolb Firestar 377, 594 hrs N863 GB Kolb Slingshot 154 hrs ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:05 AM PST US From: McCarthy Tom Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Tom, Your signature states that you have 154 hours in a Slingshot. What engine have you been flying the slingshot with prior to installing the HKS? The reason I ask is that what you are accustomed to will have some bearing on what your expectations are for the HKS powered Slingshot. Thom, Sorry for being misleading about the hours, the plane has 154 hours, I only put 8 on it, and that was with a borrowed 532 Rotax with a 2.58 gearbox and a 66"GSC 3 blade prop I had laying around. The motor never ran properly from the start, with cooling issues and a dead spot 5100 and 5900 RPM. What I saw I did like very much, max climb on a standard day 1400fpm, and it got to 80mph quickly, but started to overheat immediately, so I never saw a top end. I'm curious about one thing Thom, is you motor mounted parallel with the frame, or lifted up in the back around 7degrees? After my first couple flights, I talked to 2 other slingshot owners, and they both told me to raise the motor in the back about 1 1/2 inches to improve the thrust line, which I did and it made quite a difference. With a perfect forecast for the week, and around a busy work schedule, I hope to get it back in the air. Thanks again, Tom McCarthy N514 TM Zenith 601HD 240 hrs N414 TM Kolb Firestar 377, 594 hrs N863 GB Kolb Slingshot 154 hrs ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:55 AM PST US From: McCarthy Tom Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS Being that you do not have an excess of power, you will probably be better off with a longer prop. A shorter prop with more blades is great for producing high speed thrust, but is very inefficient at the slow speeds where your Kolb will fly. You will just be giving away performance and HP with a shorter prop. Mike, I tend to agree that a longer prop is the way to go. I'll start out with this borrowed 68" 3 blade Warp and go from there. Tom McCarthy N514 TM Zenith 601HD 240 hrs N414 TM Kolb Firestar 377, 594 hrs N863 GB Kolb Slingshot 154 hrs ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:43:42 PM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: HKS that is still a lot of prop for the HKS. My suzuki is rated somewhere around 58 hp and I settled on a two blade 70" warp. It is a perfect match. BB On 4, Oct 2010, at 12:12 PM, McCarthy Tom wrote: > > > Being that you do not have an excess of power, you will probably be better off > with a longer prop. A shorter prop with more blades is great for producing high > speed thrust, but is very inefficient at the slow speeds where your Kolb will > fly. You will just be giving away performance and HP with a shorter prop. > > Mike, > > I tend to agree that a longer prop is the way to go. I'll start out with this borrowed 68" 3 blade Warp and go from there. > > Tom McCarthy > N514 TM Zenith 601HD 240 hrs > N414 TM Kolb Firestar 377, 594 hrs > N863 GB Kolb Slingshot 154 hrs > > > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:53:55 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: tail boom question From: "awcbs" after inspecting the pieces of the mark 3 extra kit I just purchased, It looks like the previous owner fitted the rudder and stabilizer on one end. then must of figured something wasn't right and took it off and fitted to the other end. so there are rivet holes it the end of the tube that attaches to the fuse. does any one see a problem with using the tube? any structural issues, not to worried about cosmetics as it looks like all the holes will be inside the cage. some have rivets put back in the holes Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314655#314655 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:00 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Kolb-List: Re: tail boom question - Could it be that the holes were drilled for the forward attachment, and then dis-assembled so that the cage could be painted?- Can you post phot os? - ------------------------- ---------------- Bill Sullivan ------------------------- ---------------- Windsor Locks, Ct ------------------------- ---------------- FS 447 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:49:08 PM PST US From: "Brian and Laurie" Subject: Kolb-List: Another new Kolb person I went to Oshkosh last July and saw a really nice Mark III Xtra sitting at the Kolb factory booth. When I got home I decided to work on a Twinstar Mark-III (Serial # M1101) that my dad had purchased off E-Bay a couple of years ago. When I temporarily installed the seats into the fuselage and the fiberglass nose cone I found it to really uncomfortable to sit in. My legs were bent at a weird angle and my feet were bumping into things. I was wondering what are the differences are between the Twinstar Mark-III and the Xtra? Has anyone ever tried to convert one into an Xtra? Has anyone ever tried to widen the area around the rudder pedals and move them forward to make it more comfortable? Thank you for your help and suggestions, Brian ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:20 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: tail boom question From: "awcbs" I'll take a few pics tomorrow, but the holes are in the same spot on both ends of the tube , and the number of holes match the other end with the tail on it. Also it is a mark 3 Xtra, not extra, as I seem to have offended at least one member, and I figured out how to attach a signature to my messages. Please bear with me as I go through the newbie stages, I will try to look like an expert by tomorrow. Wait that won't work, looks like I'm gonna be a newbie for a while yet, sorry. hope my signature attaches -------- AJ Waldor MK3 Xtra Newbie Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314730#314730 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:27 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Another new Kolb person >When I got home I decided to work on a Twinstar > Mark-III > I was wondering what are the differences are between the Twinstar Mark-II I > and the Xtra? A lot. The Xtra is 14" wider at the front of the fuselage cage where the nosecone attaches. >has anyone ever tried to convert one into an Xtra? I'm sure someone has=2C but it escapes me at the moment who it was. >Has anyone ever tried to widen the area around the rudder pedals and move them > forward to make it more comfortable? see previous answer > Thank you for your help and suggestions=2C > Brian Brian=2C Converting a "C" into an "X" is a lot of work=2C but not entirely impossi ble. I might have some insights into the matter. Mike Welch MkIII CX ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:25 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Another new Kolb person From: "Richard Pike" Call Travis, tell him you want an Xtra fuselage from the landing gear station forward. He will smile, quote you a price, weld it up, send it to you, and you will be good to go. All you will need to do is cut off your original front end, and splice the new onto the original. (You know it's not that easy, but then - nothing is.) But anything is possible. We are planning for the recertification around Thanksgiving. Richard Pike MIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314738#314738 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1130316_large_258.jpg ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: HELP ! SNOW SKI PLANS From: "ces308" Hello all.... I have seen and even copied plans to covert water skis to snowskis and I can not find them anywhere...I did find some in older post ,but could not make them come up. If you have a set of plans,will you please post them again ?? Thank you in advance !! chris ambrose M3X/Jabiru 154. hrs N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=314742#314742 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.