---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/07/10: 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:20 AM - Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists (Matt Dralle) 1. 04:46 AM - Re: Slingshot thrust line/angle/HKS (McCarthy Tom) 2. 05:09 AM - Re: 4 blade prop - Rick Girard (McCarthy Tom) 3. 08:06 AM - 4 blades to 2 (Richard Girard) 4. 08:40 AM - Re: 4 blades to 2 (robert bean) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:20:53 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Please Make A Contribution To Support Your Lists Dear Listers, There is no advertising income to support the Matronics Email Lists and Forums. The operation is supported 100% by your personal Contributions during the November Fund Raiser. Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these services. You can pick up a really nice gift for making your Contribution too! You may use a Credit Card or Paypal at the Matronics Contribution Site here: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or, you can send a personal check to the following address: Matronics / Matt Dralle 581 Jeannie Way Livermore, CA 94550 Thank you in advance for your generous support! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:46:32 AM PST US From: McCarthy Tom Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Slingshot thrust line/angle/HKS I have turned the gear box down, added more height to the rear mount bringing it up about 1 1/2" total, so the thrust line is parallel to the flight line, and the 68" 3 blade Warp prop is about 3/4" from the boom tube. The result is very nice. I will report the actual numbers when I confirm with a GPS. Early numbers are 4800rpm, cruise at 55mph, 5800rpm, cruise at 80mph, with climb 700fpm, with only slight back pressure through out the power range(no trim tab yet) Tom McCarthy N514 TM Zenith 601HD N414 TM Kolb Firestar N863 GB Kolb Slingshot I wanted to report back to the list regarding this post. After finally solving my high EGT temp problems by blocking the ram air effect on Bings, I found after several hours of flight that slow cruise occurs at 4650 rpm giving 53 mph, and at the max continuous (5800 as per HKS) nets 84 mph. The best overall cruise occurs at 75 mph at 5300 rpm, where as the motor is very quiet and airframe is just cutting through the air with little resistance. I had a chance to do some short field work, and found that to be the weak link. Climb is just not what I expected. I have called Daryl at Warp to talk over the numbers, and he tells me that a 72" pitched down will out perform the 68" on there now with much better climb, without losing any top end, so I took the blades off and sent them in. The owner of the prop (quicksilver/ HKS) needs a 72" anyway so I have nothing to lose but my time. I hope to have the time to continue testing this fall, I will post the numbers if I do. All the numbers I posted above are true air speed accounting for winds and using a gps, however the air temp was around 50 most of the time. I did not post a rate of climb, as I do not trust the VSI on board, it indicates 500-700, but I don't believe it. Tom McCarthy N514 TM Zenith 601HD N414 TM Kolb Firestar N863 GB Kolb Slingshot ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:09:17 AM PST US From: McCarthy Tom Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 4 blade prop - Rick Girard Jim, The last email I sent you last week was returned with a "comcast returned for spam". You may want to adjust your filter. I'll attach it to the bottom of this post so you can read it. First of all, I want to say I have never flown a Firestar 2, so I cannot give any qualified advise. If it were my plane, with a HKS/2.58 gearbox, I would think about calling Daryl at Warp and see if he thinks a 2 or 3 blade 68" might make a difference in your performance. I'm not sure if you have the clearance, but a simple 1" round aluminum shim between the motor and mount would fix that, or even simpler if you have deep rubber mounts, they can be turned 180 degrees to gain an extra inch. Tom McCarthy N514 TM Zenith 601HD N414 TM Kolb Firestar N863 GB Kolb Slingshot This is the mail system at host mail2.netwurx.net. I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below. For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster. If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the attached returned message. The mail system : delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2b.comcast.net[76.96.30.116] refused to talk to me: 554 imta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast 209.242.224.15 Comcast Blocked for spam. Please see http://help.comcast.net/content/faq/BL000000 Reporting-MTA: dns; mail2.netwurx.net X-Postfix-Queue-ID: 4D55915318 X-Postfix-Sender: rfc822; mccarthy@jefnet.com Arrival-Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 06:22:39 -0500 (CDT) Final-Recipient: rfc822; jdy100@comcast.net Original-Recipient: rfc822;jdy100@comcast.net Action: failed Status: 4.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; delivery temporarily suspended: host mx2b.comcast.net[76.96.30.116] refused to talk to me: 554 imta14.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net comcast 209.242.224.15 Comcast Blocked for spam. Please see http://help.comcast.net/content/faq/BL000000 From: McCarthy Tom Subject: Re: HKS & Kolbs JIm, Thanks again for the pic's. I was hoping you had a shot of all the plumbing close up to compare to my installation. The oil tank is mounted right behind the passenger seat, up high enough to easily get to the drain plug and empty. I think I finally solved my temp problems. In the typical HKS install, the giant muffler sits directly in front of the air filters, but on mine, I ran the muffler down the back of the fuse in front of the prop. I now know that the ram air effect causes the slides in the carb's to do crazy things. I made up air deflectors in the air filters and just like that, my EGT's are in the 1250 range. Yesterday the air temp was around 55, and I had the radiator blocked about 2/3 with oil temps around 200, and my CHT's were around 320-330, (which still seems too high). I'm planning on putting several hours on it today and wring it out some. If I ever do make it down to the Houston area, I will let you know. I had planned to take my Zenith down the last two years, but never could get time off when my friend was available, so I might actually take a commercial flight. If I do fly, what airport close to Fulshear would you recommend that I could tie down at? I should mention that I have no transponder, so I need to stay out of Houston airspace. Thanks again, Tom ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: 4 blades to 2 From: Richard Girard I just couldn't put Zulu Delta away for the winter after the unsuccessful experiment with 4 blade Power Fin without trying it as a 2 blade. Just a little bit of work to remove 2 blades and reassemble, so why not. If nothing else it will keep me from having to drain so much fuel from the tanks when I do finally put her up on blocks. Anyway, it took three tries to crank enough pitch back into the prop for a total of over 3 degrees change from 4 blade to 2, and I was still a little off in that the engine can turn 6200 RPM at WOT. I prefer the low end of the RPM / peak HP curve with the engine turning 5900 to 6000 RPM, but interpolating from the performance I got from the last setting it would be a push to find the difference between the 3 blade WD and the PF with 2. Add the smoothness that the 3 blade provides and the nod goes to the WD. There was quite the wind shear this morning even at 7:30 a.m. I got 18 to 20 mph ground speed going into the wind and 103 to 106 downwind. This at only 1000' when Weather Underground and the field wind sock were reporting wind at the surface at 14 to 16. It all made for a fun approach. I held on to my altitude right to the runway threshold, pulled the throttle back to idle and kept the ASI at 50. I landed not quite half way down the runway. Kind of interesting holding the airplane in an almost level attitude while coming down on an approach angle of 45 degrees. I don't think I rolled 80 feet after touchdown before I had to add throttle to keep the plane moving forward. Rick Girard -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:27 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 4 blades to 2 Rick, I went through a similar experiment: WD vs Powerfin. I ended up with parts for four props, 2 & 3 blade 70" WD, 2 & 3 blade 65" PF. The first on the plane, even before it was legal, was the 3 blade WD. I soon found that was too much prop. Next was the 3 blade PF which worked ok but seemed to lock you into a narrow speed band. Then I tried two blades on the PF and that was insufficient prop for the engine. Last was two blade WD and I doubt more performance could be coaxed out of the suzuki than that setup. As a plus I have backup equipment should I ding one and something to hang on the wall. BB parked for the winter. BTW, my "rum rum" phenomenon seems to have gone away. Either hearing loss (quite possible as I have reverse slope loss in one ear and normal geezer loss in the other) -or a new, different brand cog belt run at more tension. On 7, Nov 2010, at 11:04 AM, Richard Girard wrote: > I just couldn't put Zulu Delta away for the winter after the unsuccessful experiment with 4 blade Power Fin without trying it as a 2 blade. Just a little bit of work to remove 2 blades and reassemble, so why not. If nothing else it will keep me from having to drain so much fuel from the tanks when I do finally put her up on blocks. > Anyway, it took three tries to crank enough pitch back into the prop for a total of over 3 degrees change from 4 blade to 2, and I was still a little off in that the engine can turn 6200 RPM at WOT. I prefer the low end of the RPM / peak HP curve with the engine turning 5900 to 6000 RPM, but interpolating from the performance I got from the last setting it would be a push to find the difference between the 3 blade WD and the PF with 2. Add the smoothness that the 3 blade provides and the nod goes to the WD. > There was quite the wind shear this morning even at 7:30 a.m. I got 18 to 20 mph ground speed going into the wind and 103 to 106 downwind. This at only 1000' when Weather Underground and the field wind sock were reporting wind at the surface at 14 to 16. > It all made for a fun approach. I held on to my altitude right to the runway threshold, pulled the throttle back to idle and kept the ASI at 50. I landed not quite half way down the runway. Kind of interesting holding the airplane in an almost level attitude while coming down on an approach angle of 45 degrees. I don't think I rolled 80 feet after touchdown before I had to add throttle to keep the plane moving forward. > > Rick Girard > > -- > Zulu Delta > Kolb Mk IIIC > 582 Gray head > 4.00 C gearbox > 3 blade WD > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. > - G.K. Chesterton > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.