---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 11/20/10: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:50 AM - Re: Hoerner wing tip design? (Richard Girard) 2. 09:04 AM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (b young) 3. 02:56 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Richard Neilsen) 4. 03:49 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Richard Girard) 5. 04:06 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (zeprep251@aol.com) 6. 04:10 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (zeprep251@aol.com) 7. 04:36 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (b young) 8. 04:50 PM - Latex paint (Richard Pike) 9. 06:03 PM - Re: Latex paint (gliderx5@comcast.net) 10. 06:40 PM - Re: Latex paint (Richard Girard) 11. 06:41 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Beauford) 12. 07:47 PM - Re: Hoerner wing tip design? (Eugene Zimmerman) 13. 08:00 PM - Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Dennis Thate) 14. 08:58 PM - Re: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage (Richard Neilsen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:14 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hoerner wing tip design? From: Richard Girard John, People say a lot of things, with and without a clue as to what they are talking about. Hoerner tips on most light planes? It would depend on th e mission the plane is flying. Hoerner tips, properly implemented, work in th e low speed regime where they help with induced drag at high lift coefficients. Great for crop dusters, STOL, and like missions, not so great if you spend your time in cruise flight. Good on a Kolb? Maybe, if you have a comprehensive plan to clean up drag sources of all kinds. Personally, I think you could do as much or more by cleaning up and sealing the wing root s to get rid of that unwanted extra set of wing tips. That hurts performance in all regimes so it's probably more bang for the buck, but you won't know until you do the work and document it. Rick Girard On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:31 AM, John Cooley wrote: > > Hello Folks, > > Haven't posted much in the past few years but keep a eye on the list and > read almost daily. I have a MK 3 Classic that I bought from Jeremy Casey > about 6 years ago and worked on for awhile then sort of lost interest. Th is > summer I have discovered 4 or 5 neighbors within 10 miles or so that are > flying that wasn't a few years ago. I have probably put more hours on my FS > II flying with them this summer than I have put on it the past 3 years > combined. This and the fact that I ran into James Tripp at Ronnie Smith's > fly-in has rekindled my desire to finish the Mark 3. James has a beautifu l > MK-3 that he has just finished. He had been flying a Firestar like myself .. > He has also installed the "Hauck Special" landing gear as I have done to the > MK 3 I have in progress. > Now to my question to the group. I have been doing some reading on Hoerne r > wing tips and would like to hear some comments or thoughts about installi ng > these on the MK 3 Classic. I know that TNK makes some for the Xtra out of > fiberglass but was thinking of building my own out of aluminum tubing as > some other Kolb copy cat kit builder has done. Would this be worth the > effort on the Kolb wing? Would the span need to be reduced any due to the > effect the Hoerner tips have of lengthening the effective span? Here is s ome > information on the web from another well known STOL aircraft sight about > these tips: > > "For a long time, I=92ve said that Hoerner wing tips should be used on mo st > light aircraft designs, since they increase the effective wing span from 8" > to over one foot without having to carry any additional weight: As we all > know, there is low pressure on top of the wing, and higher pressure on th e > bottom of the wing, with the pressure difference creating the lift that > allows us to fly. Toward the tip of the wing, the high pressure =91feels =92 that > there is less pressure on the top of the wing (just around the tip), and > wants to go there to equalize the pressure, thus creating a secondary flo w > out toward the tip of the wing. This secondary outward flow generates a > vortex (a circular motion) behind the wing." > > Any and all information or thoughts are appreciated. > > > Thanks, > John Cooley > > -------- > Be Safe, > John Cooley > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320108#320108 > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unabl e to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:04:30 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage Boyd, Ship it down to Rick Neilsen in Fla.He'll keep it warm for you. G.Aman guess if i were not a scardi cat... and most of all if i were retired and had the time... I would fly it down and keep it warm with rick... should have done it last year when my son was in the keys. boyd ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:14 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage From: Richard Neilsen Boyd Hey just a bunch of short hops strung together. It is certainly nice to be retired so time isn't an issue. It's been in the low 80s and sunny in Florida. Come on down. I will miss not having my Kolb down here this winter but not that $300/ month hanger charge. I think it will be cheaper to rent this winter. Tuesday I'm scheduled to get checked out in a Sport Cruiser (this is the new Piper LSA). It will not be anything like a Kolb but it is flying and a bit faster. Gary when you get down here we will need to schedule a flyin. If we can get Buford to leave his home airport again we may be able to talk George A in to joining us???? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:02 PM, b young wrote: > B > oyd, > Ship it down to Rick Neilsen in Fla.He'll keep it warm for you. > G.Aman > > guess if i were not a scardi cat... and most of all if i were retired > and had the time... I would fly it down and keep it warm with rick... > should have done it last year when my son was in the keys. > > boyd > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage From: Richard Girard Rick, You'll like the Piper. Very light handling. I wonder how they set the prop. The Sport Cruiser dealer in Wichita had both his aircraft set so that the 912 could only turn 5200 RPM on take off, but the EFIS showed a nice 138 kt cruise. Not exactly LSA legal, but it sure was fun. Rick Girard On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Richard Neilsen wrote: > Boyd > > Hey just a bunch of short hops strung together. It is certainly nice to be > retired so time isn't an issue. It's been in the low 80s and sunny in > Florida. Come on down. > > I will miss not having my Kolb down here this winter but not that $300/ > month hanger charge. I think it will be cheaper to rent this winter. Tuesday > I'm scheduled to get checked out in a Sport Cruiser (this is the new Piper > LSA). It will not be anything like a Kolb but it is flying and a bit faster. > > Gary when you get down here we will need to schedule a flyin. If we can get > Buford to leave his home airport again we may be able to talk George A in to > joining us???? > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:02 PM, b young wrote: > >> B >> oyd, >> Ship it down to Rick Neilsen in Fla.He'll keep it warm for you. >> G.Aman >> >> guess if i were not a scardi cat... and most of all if i were retired >> and had the time... I would fly it down and keep it warm with rick... >> should have done it last year when my son was in the keys. >> >> boyd >> >> * >> >> "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> ttp://forums.matronics.com* >> >> > * > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage From: zeprep251@aol.com Boyd, Just rubb'in it in a little.Packing up the Mk3 and heading south in about 1 0 days.Tell Becky, Marj says hi. G.A. -----Original Message----- From: b young Sent: Sat, Nov 20, 2010 12:04 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage Boyd, Ship it down to Rick Neilsen in Fla.He'll keep it warm for you. G.Aman guess if i were not a scardi cat... and most of all if i were retired an d had the time... I would fly it down and keep it warm with rick... sh ould have done it last year when my son was in the keys. boyd ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage From: zeprep251@aol.com Rick, Sounds good to me.See you in a couple weeks G.A. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Neilsen Sent: Sat, Nov 20, 2010 5:56 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage Boyd Hey just a bunch of short hops strung together. It is certainly nice to be retired so time isn't an issue. It's been in the low 80s and sunny in Flori da. Come on down. I will miss not having my Kolb down here this winter but not that $300/ mon th hanger charge. I think it will be cheaper to rent this winter. Tuesday I 'm scheduled to get checked out in a Sport Cruiser (this is the new Piper L SA). It will not be anything like a Kolb but it is flying and a bit faster. Gary when you get down here we will need to schedule a flyin. If we can get Buford to leave his home airport again we may be able to talk George A in to joining us???? Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 12:02 PM, b young wrote: B oyd, Ship it down to Rick Neilsen in Fla.He'll keep it warm for you. G.Aman guess if i were not a scardi cat... and most of all if i were retired an d had the time... I would fly it down and keep it warm with rick... sh ould have done it last year when my son was in the keys. boyd "_blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com/" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ttp://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:01 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage Boyd Hey just a bunch of short hops strung together. It is certainly nice to be retired so time isn't an issue. It's been in the low 80s and sunny in Florida. Come on down. I will miss not having my Kolb down here this winter but not that $300/ month hanger charge. I think it will be cheaper to rent this winter. Tuesday I'm scheduled to get checked out in a Sport Cruiser (this is the new Piper LSA). It will not be anything like a Kolb but it is flying and a bit faster. Gary when you get down here we will need to schedule a flyin. If we can get Buford to leave his home airport again we may be able to talk George A in to joining us???? Rick Neilsen just need someone to donate say half a mil... d find a way to get more than 1% interest in the bank.... i would have retired last week. boyd do not archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:50:12 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Latex paint From: "Richard Pike" Forget it. Did the weight and balance today and what a disappointment it turned out to be. Latex is not lighter than the other systems, and it is a lot harder to work with. Ended up using 4 different spray guns, and was not happy with any of them. The airplane will probably look good after the details get touched up, but what a pain this has been compared with using Stits, Randolph, or Certified Coatings. Never again. Hope I have not led anyone else astray, if so, please accept my apologies, this has been a real soup sandwich. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320214#320214 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:03 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Latex paint Richard I'm just now finishing painting the fuselage on my Pietenpol with Behr gloss exterior latex. I too tried several spray guns, having some success with a Harbor Freight touch up gun for small areas, and a Lowes Kobalt Latex spray gun for large areas. I do not have an HVLP system, but I think one might work. I thinned just a touch more than the instructions on the paint can which said 1/2 pint per gallon. I brushed on 3 thinned coats of Glidden gray primer, and sprayed 3 or 4 coats of color. I came out better than I was expecting, but not a professional job for sure. I will post some pictures in a few days. For me, it didn't seem too difficult to work with. The cost, and above all no stinky fumes have me sold on the process. Also I'm painting in my basement. Malcolm Morrison Kolb MKII (for sale) Pietenpol Air Camper ASW-15 http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Pike" Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 7:48:03 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Latex paint Forget it. Did the weight and balance today and what a disappointment it turned out to be. Latex is not lighter than the other systems, and it is a lot harder to work with. Ended up using 4 different spray guns, and was not happy with any of them. The airplane will probably look good after the details get touched up, but what a pain this has been compared with using Stits, Randolph, or Certified Coatings. Never again. Hope I have not led anyone else astray, if so, please accept my apologies, this has been a real soup sandwich. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320214#320214 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Latex paint From: Richard Girard Richard, I'm just about to start on the tail feathers of Zulu Delta so I'm interested. Can you give some more detail on how you did the painting? Sealers and primers? What you'd do different? TIA. Rick Girard On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 6:48 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > Forget it. > > Did the weight and balance today and what a disappointment it turned out to > be. Latex is not lighter than the other systems, and it is a lot harder to > work with. Ended up using 4 different spray guns, and was not happy with any > of them. The airplane will probably look good after the details get touched > up, but what a pain this has been compared with using Stits, Randolph, or > Certified Coatings. > > Never again. Hope I have not led anyone else astray, if so, please accept > my apologies, this has been a real soup sandwich. > > Richard Pike > MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320214#320214 > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:41:32 PM PST US From: "Beauford " Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage Brother Rick. I have a car.and a truck. In the event the Nazi 447 will not start.or the Kleenex Kolb will not fly because my butt and the Macanudo stogie are too heavy. will come anyway. p.s. Brother Alexander is known to be a sucker for these events. Beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL If you forward this e-mail, please remove my name before sending it... I promise to do the same for you... Thanks... From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of b young Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 7:33 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolb Firestar Winter storage Boyd Hey just a bunch of short hops strung together. It is certainly nice to be retired so time isn't an issue. It's been in the low 80s and sunny in Florida. Come on down. I will miss not having my Kolb down here this winter but not that $300/ month hanger charge. I think it will be cheaper to rent this winter. Tuesday I'm scheduled to get checked out in a Sport Cruiser (this is the new Piper LSA). It will not be anything like a Kolb but it is flying and a bit faster. Gary when you get down here we will need to schedule a flyin. If we can get Buford to leave his home airport again we may be able to talk George A in to joining us???? Rick Neilsen just need someone to donate say half a mil... d find a way to get more than 1% interest in the bank.... i would have retired last week. boyd do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:10 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Hoerner wing tip design? John C, I like the way my plane flies with its Hoerner type wing tip modifications. It is very good at slow flight and very stable and controllable even in a deep stall mush. But would I do it all again, or recommend it for others? Probably not. The plans built Kolb is already very good at all that, and any improvement is merely a tweek of what is already every stock Kolb plane's strong point. On Nov 19, 2010, at 12:31 PM, John Cooley wrote: > > Hello Folks, > > Haven't posted much in the past few years but keep a eye on the list and read almost daily. I have a MK 3 Classic that I bought from Jeremy Casey about 6 years ago and worked on for awhile then sort of lost interest. This summer I have discovered 4 or 5 neighbors within 10 miles or so that are flying that wasn't a few years ago. I have probably put more hours on my FS II flying with them this summer than I have put on it the past 3 years combined. This and the fact that I ran into James Tripp at Ronnie Smith's fly-in has rekindled my desire to finish the Mark 3. James has a beautiful MK-3 that he has just finished. He had been flying a Firestar like myself. He has also installed the "Hauck Special" landing gear as I have done to the MK 3 I have in progress. > Now to my question to the group. I have been doing some reading on Hoerner wing tips and would like to hear some comments or thoughts about installing these on the MK 3 Classic. I know that TNK makes some for the Xtra out of fiberglass but was thinking of building my own out of aluminum tubing as some other Kolb copy cat kit builder has done. Would this be worth the effort on the Kolb wing? Would the span need to be reduced any due to the effect the Hoerner tips have of lengthening the effective span? Here is some information on the web from another well known STOL aircraft sight about these tips: > > "For a long time, I=99ve said that Hoerner wing tips should be used on most light aircraft designs, since they increase the effective wing span from 8" to over one foot without having to carry any additional weight: As we all know, there is low pressure on top of the wing, and higher pressure on the bottom of the wing, with the pressure difference creating the lift that allows us to fly. Toward the tip of the wing, the high pressure =98feels=99 that there is less pressure on the top of the wing (just around the tip), and wants to go there to equalize the pressure, thus creating a secondary flow out toward the tip of the wing. This secondary outward flow generates a vortex (a circular motion) behind the wing." > > Any and all information or thoughts are appreciated. > > > Thanks, > John Cooley ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:19 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage From: "Dennis Thate" by0ung Have to admit...this does look like fun Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320230#320230 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolb_on_skis_190.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb Firestar Winter storage From: Richard Neilsen Ohooooo....... Gasp... Is that frozen water????? Some time in my past I remember bone chilling Michigan winters. I have a pair of frozen water skies that I built for my MKIIIC. I used water skies that I glued and screwed a chunk of 2X4 to with blocking for support. The hinge is a standard door hinge with the hinge pin replaced with a bolt for easy (sort of) removal. The skies were attached just inside the wheels just above the ground so that the plane would roll on a hard surface yet slide in deep snow. The pictured restraining cables keep the skies restrained to a limited movement yet allow rotation and movement over snow banks. The bungee shown was doubled and kept the ski tips up in flight. The aluminum tangs shown fit in front and back of the lower wing strut fittings on the fuselage. Rick Neilsen 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 10:57 PM, Dennis Thate wrote: > > by0ung > > > Have to admit...this does look like fun > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=320230#320230 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolb_on_skis_190.jpg > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.