Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:42 AM - Re: Happy First Flight Day ()
2. 06:14 AM - Richard Pearse (robert bean)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: Richard Pearse (Dana Hague)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Richard Pearse (Jack B. Hart)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Happy First Flight Day (Pat Ladd)
6. 08:10 AM - Re: Happy First Flight Day (Ron @ KFHU)
7. 08:14 AM - Re: Richard Pearse (Pat Ladd)
8. 08:25 AM - Re: Happy First Flight Day (Pat Ladd)
9. 08:39 AM - Re: Richard Pearse (Ron @ KFHU)
10. 09:00 AM - Re: Richard Pearse (Dennis Thate)
11. 09:07 AM - Re: Richard Pearse (Richard Girard)
12. 11:11 AM - Re: Richard Pearse ()
13. 11:22 AM - Re: Happy First Flight Day ()
14. 02:13 PM - Re: Happy First Flight Day (robert bean)
15. 11:36 PM - Re: Happy First Flight Day ()
16. 11:45 PM - Re: Happy First Flight Day ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
Now Pat that's a bit like telling a American they did not invent apple
pie.
My kolb is hangered at Richard Pearse airport in South Canterbury .
There are believers and non believers here as well .If there is any
interest I can post some material on Richard Pearse and his airoplane.
It was advanced in that it did have elevator and rudder control and roll
was controlled by flaps set into the wing. The engine was a horizontally
opposed twin with each cylinder firing in both directions { Pat may
remember a Austin truck engine that was set up much the same way in the
50s } The engine did work as I have done some work on a replica and
taxied it around .
I personally believe the concept to be sound but the aircraft may have
been effected by propeller torque with out enough rudder authority to
keep the aircraft flying straight.
Weather just coming right here now 33c yesterday.Pat I will now be over
your way in June . Staying a few days in Newquay. Unfortunatly will not
be there for long before we fly out again.
I am hoping to get some Kolb time in this week as I will be away boating
for a couple of weeks from Friday
Regards to all.
Have a merry Xmas and happy new year and safe flying to all .
Downunder
MK111c
Message 2
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Thank you for the info on this fellow. The aileron position at the
center of the wing tips is an interesting
concept.... part aileron, part spoiler. If flutter could be avoided at
dead center it might work quite well.
BTW, Edison got all the PR but Tesla was the genius.
BB
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Richard Pearse |
Many people had solved parts of the flight problem before the Wrights, but
Wilbur and Orville were the first to put all the pieces together and
realize that they needed to learn to _fly_ the airplane, rather than trying
to make a stable machine that could be steered like a boat. Just as
important, once they flew successfully, they did it again and again... not
unlike the current prizes offered for space flight which require multiple
flights within a certain time, to eliminate disposable spacecraft. Also
they documented every step of the process, like the good scientists and
engineers they were.
Here in Connecticut, there's a small but enthusiastic group that claims
Gustave Whitehead flew before the Wrights. Certainly he was working on the
problem, but he left no records and no proof of a successful experiment.
-Dana
P.S. Bob, agree on Tesla vs. Edison. How about Marconi? Tesla invented
and demonstrated radio before Marconi, too, but saw it only as a means for
remote control of vessels (like a remote control torpedo), not for
communications, so Marconi gets the credit.
-Dana
--
Democracy is three wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Richard Pearse |
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
>
Many people had solved parts of the flight problem before the Wrights, but
Wilbur and Orville were the first to put all the pieces together and realize
that they needed to learn to _fly_ the airplane, rather than trying to make
a stable machine that could be steered like a boat.
>
Dana,
I agree and much credit should go to Otto Lilienthal. I swiped the
following from a web site.
"German engineer, Otto Lilienthal, studied aerodynamics and worked to design
a glider that would fly. Otto Lilienthal was the first person to design a
glider that could fly a person and was able to fly long distances.
Otto Lilienthal was fascinated by the idea of flight. Based on his studies of
birds and how they fly, he wrote a book on aerodynamics that was published
in 1889 and this text was used by the Wright Brothers as the basis for their
designs.
After more than 2500 flights, Otto Lilienthal was killed when he lost
control because of a sudden strong wind and crashed into the ground."
It would seem that after 2,500 flights, Otto had put all the pieces
together. Flying a glider is no different, control wise, than flying
powered aircraft.
Have a good holiday!
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
Ever hear of a Gustave Whitehead ?
Hi Jim,
that is completely new to me.The article makes interesting reading.
I am sure that there were many unsung heroes who were on the verge of
flying around that time and either never made it or their records, like
Whiteheads were overlooked. There is certainly such a thing as `an idea
whose time has come` and inventions all over the world emerge more or less
simultaneously. A strange phenomenon, particularly in a world were instant
communication does not exist.
I didn`t intend to denigrate the work that the Wrights did but the bit about
`before them everyone just jumped of buildings with umbrellas` stuck in my
craw.
It is difficult to go against `what everyone knows`. It is impossible to
convince anyone that radar was a British invention. `Everyone knows` the
Americans invented it.. Of course we called it `radiolocation` and had it
working (just about) before the war. Then we gave the secret to the US as
good allies and they developed it and called it `Radar`. It is obvious that
`radar` is a much more marketable and easily remembered name and so a myth
is born.
Publicity is all.
Cheers
Pat
Message 6
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| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
The Wrights did a great job and their names are in the history books and that is
what everyone accepts.However they didn`t just conjure all this out of thin
air and a bit of credit for the guys whose shoulders they stood on would not go
amiss
Cheers
Pat
==================================
Hey Pat take it easy brother, just remember the Wrights were English in origin
so you Brits can certainly take credit for that, as in "if it wasn't for us brits
you Yankee Bastards wouldn't even have the Wright brothers, and the Kolb".
As far as shoulders to stand on you gotta give the most credit to their Mom and
Pops and Gulliver.
Bahmbug!
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Richard Pearse |
and realize that they needed to learn to _fly_ the airplane>.
Hi Dana,
Not strictly true. Several people had made numerous glider flights,
Lilienthal,(over 2000 flights I believe) Pilcher etc.,.
They could certainly control their flight pretty well. Had they not been
able to they would have crashed or killed themselves very early in the
game.
What is amazing is that the Wrights ever got away with such a cock a
mamie control system as the one they used. Presumably they used the same
system for their preliminary glider flights but looking at it
dispassionately it seems unbelievable that a couple of guys as bright as
they obviously were didn`t invent the simple stick and rudder system
which almost every other pioneer used.
They must have had a lot of faith in their ability to control the plane
to go flying with an experimental machine in those winds.
We would think twice about making a first flight in a new plane now,
even with a tested design in 20mph winds.. They had a lot of guts.
cheers
Pat
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
<<aircraft may have been effected by propeller torque ..>>
Hi,
I have seen what is supposed to be Pearses plane in Auckland Museum.
Didn`t think much of the prop at all. As I remember it looked as though
he had pinched it from the farm wind pump.
I shall be showing an American friend around the Normandy beaches about
June 6th. If you are here later in the month we might arrange a
meeting. If you let me have your dates I will let you know if there are
any fly ins in that area in any case.
33 degrees?. Yee Ha. I have driven very tentatively through the snow
this morning to put some props under my hangar roof. More snow forecast.
This time last year I was heading for a month on the beach in the Bay of
Islands
Cheers
Message 9
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| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Richard Pearse |
Pat you forget Icarus the greek! He was the first, wasn't it Leo Da Vinci who was
there too among the giants, of course there was the first Rocketeer Eliyja
in Biblical times. Like you said publicity is everything.
The facts remain, there was no aviation before the Wrights and there was aviation
as we know it after the Wrights. We can prove for certain the Wrights flew,
but we can't prove for certain the others did (excluding Lilintal, brother Mongolfiers,
but that was not Aeroplane flying).
Its all academic brother, their accomplishments is what made Aviation what it is
today; our mighty Kolb is a direct descendent from the Wrights and their spirit
of innovation and invention. No question about that.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Richard Pearse |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity
The "Collective Consciousness' might help explain why ideas seem to pop up all
over the world at about the same time. About 20 years ago Public TV once hosted
a mini series hosted by an American Asian professor about this very concept.
--------
Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. George Bernard
Shaw
Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=323819#323819
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Richard Pearse |
Just to further the discussion, try this.
Rick
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Pat you forget Icarus the greek! He was the first, wasn't it Leo Da Vinci
> who was there too among the giants, of course there was the first Rocketeer
> Eliyja in Biblical times. Like you said publicity is everything.
> The facts remain, there was no aviation before the Wrights and there was
> aviation as we know it after the Wrights. We can prove for certain the
> Wrights flew, but we can't prove for certain the others did (excluding
> Lilintal, brother Mongolfiers, but that was not Aeroplane flying).
>
> Its all academic brother, their accomplishments is what made Aviation what
> it is today; our mighty Kolb is a direct descendent from the Wrights and
> their spirit of innovation and invention. No question about that.
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Richard Pearse |
Kolb only Please
---- Pat Ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote: > They must have had a lot of faith
in their ability to control the plane to go flying with an experimental machine
in those winds.
> We would think twice about making a first flight in a new plane now, even with
a tested design in 20mph winds.. They had a lot of guts.
>
>
> cheers
>
> Pat
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
Please keep it Kolb related
---- Pat Ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Ever hear of a Gustave Whitehead ?
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> that is completely new to me.The article makes interesting reading.
> I am sure that there were many unsung heroes who were on the verge of
> flying around that time and either never made it or their records, like
> Whiteheads were overlooked. There is certainly such a thing as `an idea
> whose time has come` and inventions all over the world emerge more or less
> simultaneously. A strange phenomenon, particularly in a world were instant
> communication does not exist.
> I didn`t intend to denigrate the work that the Wrights did but the bit about
> `before them everyone just jumped of buildings with umbrellas` stuck in my
> craw.
> It is difficult to go against `what everyone knows`. It is impossible to
> convince anyone that radar was a British invention. `Everyone knows` the
> Americans invented it.. Of course we called it `radiolocation` and had it
> working (just about) before the war. Then we gave the secret to the US as
> good allies and they developed it and called it `Radar`. It is obvious that
> `radar` is a much more marketable and easily remembered name and so a myth
> is born.
> Publicity is all.
>
> Cheers
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
Opinions may vary but the observation of first flight is not up for debate. These
pioneers, the wrights and their contemporaries
got us where we are today. I give them a grateful and hearty salute.
BB
On 19, Dec 2010, at 2:17 PM, <lhaggerty@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Please keep it Kolb related
>
>
> ---- Pat Ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ever hear of a Gustave Whitehead ?
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> that is completely new to me.The article makes interesting reading.
>> I am sure that there were many unsung heroes who were on the verge of
>> flying around that time and either never made it or their records, like
>> Whiteheads were overlooked. There is certainly such a thing as `an idea
>> whose time has come` and inventions all over the world emerge more or less
>> simultaneously. A strange phenomenon, particularly in a world were instant
>> communication does not exist.
>> I didn`t intend to denigrate the work that the Wrights did but the bit about
>> `before them everyone just jumped of buildings with umbrellas` stuck in my
>> craw.
>> It is difficult to go against `what everyone knows`. It is impossible to
>> convince anyone that radar was a British invention. `Everyone knows` the
>> Americans invented it.. Of course we called it `radiolocation` and had it
>> working (just about) before the war. Then we gave the secret to the US as
>> good allies and they developed it and called it `Radar`. It is obvious that
>> `radar` is a much more marketable and easily remembered name and so a myth
>> is born.
>> Publicity is all.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Pat
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
No Pat not true, I knew you guys got there first . Just think the world owes
TV to the limmys
Downunder
MK111c
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Happy First Flight Day |
Stand behind it at 800 rpm . It sure shifts some air
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