---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/29/10: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:23 AM - Re: Sonex or GP VW (George Bearden) 2. 03:11 AM - Re: Christmas Day flight (Pat Ladd) 3. 03:39 AM - power loss (Ted Cowan) 4. 03:55 AM - Re: power loss (Richard Girard) 5. 04:48 AM - Re: Christmas Day flight (Pat Ladd) 6. 07:33 AM - Re: 912 Tach Malfunction (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN) 7. 08:09 AM - Re: Re: Sonex or GP VW (Rick Neilsen) 8. 10:04 AM - Re: Re: Sonex or GP VW (zeprep251@aol.com) 9. 10:07 AM - Re: power loss (zeprep251@aol.com) 10. 10:08 AM - Re: to Kolb/Jabiru guys... (Frankd) 11. 10:20 AM - Re: Re: to Kolb/Jabiru guys... (zeprep251@aol.com) 12. 07:35 PM - Re: Re: Sonex or GP VW (Charlie England) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:23:19 AM PST US From: "George Bearden" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sonex or GP VW > Direct drive Kolbs do not do well and have never performed well on any model Kolb. I hear you, but would like a few more details. I have been following this thread because I have a Kolb FS-1. I read about the Kolb powered by the Generac, and the struggles Mr. young had. He said his plane (FSII) weighed in at 435 dry and empty. I *think* mine will come in between 280-300# with Generac (if I go that way). I have been considering trying out the Generac direct-drive on there. > When compared to an engine with a reduction drive, there is a marked performance increase with reduction drives. I understand that this will cost me performance. I am just wondering how much. I can/probably will get a PSRU, but want to look at direct-drive before giving up on it. Would any of you care to throw out some guesses as to how it would perform? I weigh a lil more than 210# but getting lighter as we speak. > As a direct drive Kolbster,I could not agree with you more. > G.Aman Mr. Aman! What kind of setup do you have? > Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Mark Twain had a lot of things right, but a man such as himself isn't qualified to speak on 'faith'. He doesn't know diddly about it. But I respect your right to quote him, and would fight to the death to protect my right to needle you about it a lil bit. :-) "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase". - Martin Luther King, Jr. And I would add, "particularly when you know who built it" GeoB ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:11:35 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Christmas Day flight You too, Patrick L. ;-)>> Gee, I have been specialy selected. Did that message come from Readers Digest? No? I did not fly my Kolb over Christmas. Does that make this Kolb related? I spent Boxing Day with 10 visitors in the house, including 3 children, 2 burst pipes and a hole in the kitchen ceiling and the outside temps at 12C below.. First the water went off as the pipes froze, great with 10 people waiting to use the lavatories, then the water came back on as the pipes thawed, and burst and water poured through the ceiling. Sorry this is not Kolb related John. I promise that this is the last time I send such a message in 2010 I trust things went more smoothly at the Hollow. Happy New Year John and to everyone on the list Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:49 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: power loss hello all, hope you had a great holiday season so far. got a question for someone smarter than I. I know and understand rotax engines but this is more for a hirth 3503. Friend has one that ran great and then after several times just taxiing, started acting up. first it would just stop and then get where it required the enrichers to be on. it will not go past 3000 rpm which should be more at 6000. I picked up the carb needles and it would run without the enrichers being on, idle also. helped but not cure. we are going to put the old larger main jets in and see. it feels as though the prop is pitched too high, dead throttle the last quarter. if it were a rotax, I would suspect stuck rings. checked plugs which were black soot and wet, no carbon build up. it ran great in the air before then but I suspect he might have overheated it on the ground taxiing. gauges did not work well so I really dont know. got to pull the exhaust and see what I see and of course, do a comp test today. any more ideas? dont want to tear this piece of work down. if it were up to me to send it somewhere, it would be to the dump. my good friend cannot afford a new engine or another engine or to rebuild this on. I love my little 912 even with the rum rum. all ideas welcome even off list. by the way, I get about the same rpm and speed that the jabiru SS does. we should fly together and see one day. ted cowan, slingshot, 912ul, rum rum. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: power loss From: Richard Girard Ted, Sounds like you have most of the bases covered already. I hope you don't find any metal transfer when you look at the exhaust side of the piston. All I can think to add is carb ice or a split in the carb connector. Good luck. Rick Girard On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Ted Cowan wrote: > > hello all, hope you had a great holiday season so far. got a question for > someone smarter than I. I know and understand rotax engines but this is > more for a hirth 3503. Friend has one that ran great and then after several > times just taxiing, started acting up. first it would just stop and then > get where it required the enrichers to be on. it will not go past 3000 rpm > which should be more at 6000. I picked up the carb needles and it would run > without the enrichers being on, idle also. helped but not cure. we are > going to put the old larger main jets in and see. it feels as though the > prop is pitched too high, dead throttle the last quarter. if it were a > rotax, I would suspect stuck rings. checked plugs which were black soot and > wet, no carbon build up. it ran great in the air before then but I suspect > he might have overheated it on the ground taxiing. gauges did not work well > so I really dont know. got to pull the exhaust and see what I see and of > course, do a comp test today. any more ideas? dont want to tear this piece > of work down. if it were up to me to send it somewhere, it would be to the > dump. my good friend cannot afford a new engine or another engine or to > rebuild this on. I love my little 912 even with the rum rum. all ideas > welcome even off list. by the way, I get about the same rpm and speed that > the jabiru SS does. we should fly together and see one day. ted cowan, > slingshot, 912ul, rum rum. > > -- Zulu Delta Kolb Mk IIIC 582 Gray head 4.00 C gearbox 3 blade WD Thanks, Homer GBYM It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. - G.K. Chesterton ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:56 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Christmas Day flight Hi Eddie, Great pics. Nice looking plane. I like the red struts. They really pick out the line. Mine is red/white also but not as neat as yours. The weather has broken down here in the south. Roads are clear and all snow is gone. Floods to look forward to now I suppose. Not forgetting the fact that we shall probably get the tailend of the snow now falling in American East Coast in about a week. Cheers and have a good New Year Pat By the way did you read my `Parlez-vous franglais` letter in Microlight Flying?. Caused a few chuckles on my field. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:33:24 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 912 Tach Malfunction From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" << The tach needle was jumping around erratically on my Mark-3 >> Kolb Friends - Here's a quick update on my erratic tach situation: It turned out to be a simple matter of corrosion on the tach terminals. Easy fix - I just pulled off each of the three electrical terminals on the back of the tachometer, then re-attached them to achieve positive contact again. On close inspection of the terminal posts, I could see a slight surface coating of corrosion - probably leftover from my salt flats landing in 2006. (ugh) Flew the airplane, and the tach worked just fine. Am glad I did not have to open up to instrument to investigate the innards. My thanks to Dana, Rick G, Mike W, Boyd and Cap'n Ron for your various ideas and thoughts. It's what makes this List so valuable. Dennis K. New Mexico ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:09:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Sonex or GP VW From: Rick Neilsen George I don't think the direct drive Generac option is a good choice for at least two reasons. First, it doesn't sound like you will be happy with the performance if it will even fly. Another reason is the ability of that engine to accept a direct drive prop. My experience with the VW conversion indicates that there was a long and checkered development process in getting a reliable engine. The first concern is a prop hub attachment. Does anyone make a prop hub for direct attachment to the Generac? Next is how will the Generac handle the gyroscopic and harmonic loads of a direct drive prop? VWs had to change to forged crankshafts with a hardened key way and a custom deep drilled and taped prop mounting bolt hole to handle the harmonic loads and then they require only wood props. Also this is with a engine that has fairly even firing pulses. The Generac has two cylinders in a V configuration. This is not a good choice for driving a prop. I know Valley had to develop a custom one way slipping redrive to handle the Generac's nasty harmonics. To handle the gyroscopic loads most VW engines now use a custom main bearing machined into the prop end of the engine case. It is four or five times the surface area of the original. Oh yes and one final issue is the thrust loading on the crank. Besides that no big deal go for it. Again as always worth what you paid for it. Rick Neilsen 1st Redrive VW powered MKIIIC On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 5:15 AM, George Bearden wrote: > > > Direct drive Kolbs do not do well and have never performed well on any > model Kolb. > > I hear you, but would like a few more details. I have been following this > thread because I have a Kolb FS-1. I read about the Kolb powered by the > Generac, and the struggles Mr. young had. He said his plane (FSII) weighed > in at 435 dry and empty. I *think* mine will come in between 280-300# with > Generac (if I go that way). I have been considering trying out the Generac > direct-drive on there. > > > When compared to an engine with a reduction drive, there is a marked > performance increase with reduction drives. > > I understand that this will cost me performance. I am just wondering how > much. I can/probably will get a PSRU, but want to look at direct-drive > before giving up on it. Would any of you care to throw out some guesses as > to how it would perform? I weigh a lil more than 210# but getting lighter > as > we speak. > > > As a direct drive Kolbster,I could not agree with you more. > > G.Aman > > Mr. Aman! What kind of setup do you have? > > > Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain > > Mark Twain had a lot of things right, but a man such as himself isn't > qualified to speak on 'faith'. He doesn't know diddly about it. But I > respect your right to quote him, and would fight to the death to protect my > right to needle you about it a lil bit. :-) > > "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole > staircase". > - Martin Luther King, Jr. > > And I would add, "particularly when you know who built it" > > GeoB > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Sonex or GP VW From: zeprep251@aol.com George, Had a FS2 with 503 which of course is redrive equipped.I now fly a MK3C jab iru 2200a direct drive w/Sensenich wood prop.It is slower than a redrive mk 3 912ul although both are 80 hp.I love this engine but it makes a lot of no ise.My most desired setup would be Jabiru w/PSRU which Jabiru could do beca use the case is CNC milled from billet stock,they could put attach surfaces on the case easily IMHO. G.Aman MK-3-C Jabiru 2200A Sensenich 600hrs -----Original Message----- From: George Bearden Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 5:23 am Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Sonex or GP VW > Direct drive Kolbs do not do well and have never performed well on any model Kolb. I hear you, but would like a few more details. I have been following this thread because I have a Kolb FS-1. I read about the Kolb powered by the Generac, and the struggles Mr. young had. He said his plane (FSII) weighed in at 435 dry and empty. I *think* mine will come in between 280-300# with Generac (if I go that way). I have been considering trying out the Generac direct-drive on there. > When compared to an engine with a reduction drive, there is a marked performance increase with reduction drives. I understand that this will cost me performance. I am just wondering how much. I can/probably will get a PSRU, but want to look at direct-drive before giving up on it. Would any of you care to throw out some guesses as to how it would perform? I weigh a lil more than 210# but getting lighter a s we speak. > As a direct drive Kolbster,I could not agree with you more. > G.Aman Mr. Aman! What kind of setup do you have? > Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Mark Twain had a lot of things right, but a man such as himself isn't qualified to speak on 'faith'. He doesn't know diddly about it. But I respect your right to quote him, and would fight to the death to protect my right to needle you about it a lil bit. :-) "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase". - Martin Luther King, Jr. And I would add, "particularly when you know who built it" GeoB ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:07:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: power loss From: zeprep251@aol.com Ted, Check exhaust system. -----Original Message----- From: Ted Cowan Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 6:39 am Subject: Kolb-List: power loss hello all, hope you had a great holiday season so far. got a question for someone smarter than I. I know and understand rotax engines but this is more for a hirth 3503. Friend has one that ran great and then after severa l times just taxiing, started acting up. first it would just stop and then get where it required the enrichers to be on. it will not go past 3000 rpm which should be more at 6000. I picked up the carb needles and it would ru n without the enrichers being on, idle also. helped but not cure. we are going to put the old larger main jets in and see. it feels as though the prop is pitched too high, dead throttle the last quarter. if it were a rotax, I would suspect stuck rings. checked plugs which were black soot an d wet, no carbon build up. it ran great in the air before then but I suspect he might have overheated it on the ground taxiing. gauges did not work wel l so I really dont know. got to pull the exhaust and see what I see and of course, do a comp test today. any more ideas? dont want to tear this piec e of work down. if it were up to me to send it somewhere, it would be to the dump. my good friend cannot afford a new engine or another engine or to rebuild this on. I love my little 912 even with the rum rum. all ideas welcome even off list. by the way, I get about the same rpm and speed that the jabiru SS does. we should fly together and see one day. ted cowan, slingshot, 912ul, rum rum. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:08:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: to Kolb/Jabiru guys... From: "Frankd" HI Guys, I got my Jabiru 2200 started yesterday for the first time since I purchased it- 3 years ago!. YEAH.. But, I had fuel going from the carb clear line into the air filter and then dripping out onto the plane , so the engine run was short. Can someone confirm that this line is the overflow from the bowl as the schematics I have don't show it. I believe that this is just like the issue Chris had where the float needle valve is not functioning correctly and overflowing the float bowl. I have the Bing 94/40, standard for engine # 902. I think that sitting around for three years may have gummed up the float needle valve, and will take it apart and clean it and also check for wear like chris suggested. I'll look for a pink tip. Any other advise?? while I'm doing this. The solenode issue was solved and once started the Jab ran smoothly at idle power. I did not get to run it up due to the fuel drip issue. One step closer to flight! Frank D M3X , 0hrs, Jab 2200 started! Fuel dripping. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324930#324930 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: to Kolb/Jabiru guys... From: zeprep251@aol.com Frank, That line is a bowl vent.It insures that the atmospheric pressure on the fu el in the bowl is the same as the pressure of the air at the carb air inlet .If fuel comes out of that line, the the seal at needle and seat is faulty. A microscopic fiber can cause the problem.Keep a good filter between fuel t ank and carb and a soft tipped needle if you still have a brass one. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Frankd Sent: Wed, Dec 29, 2010 1:08 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: to Kolb/Jabiru guys... HI Guys, I got my Jabiru 2200 started yesterday for the first time since I purchased it- 3 years ago!. YEAH.. But, I had fuel going from the carb clear line into the air filter and then dripping out onto the plane , so the engine run was short. Can someone confirm that this line is the overflow from the bowl as the schematics I have don't show it. I believe that this is just like the issue Chris had where the float needle valve is not functioning correctly and overflowing the float bowl. I have the Bing 94/40, standard for engine # 902. I think that sitting arou nd for three years may have gummed up the float needle valve, and will take it apart and clean it and also check for wear like chris suggested. I'll look for a pink tip. Any other advise?? while I'm doing this. The solenode issue was solved and once started the Jab ran smoothly at idle power. I did not get to run it up due to the fuel drip issue. One step closer to flight! Frank D M3X , 0hrs, Jab 2200 started! Fuel dripping. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=324930#324930 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:07 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Sonex or GP VW One of the Generac's attractions for me is that it's designed from the start as an industrial, run all day at rated power, almost any kind of load type of engine. While the power pulses are uneven & may give a reduction drive fits, the engine & in particular the crank should handle almost anything short of a serious resonance issue. VW & other auto engines were never designed to take side loads on the end of the crank, but the Generac crank has a pulley mounted to it in many applications (exception would be direct drive generators). I could be wrong, but I would think that a wood prop on a direct drive Generac would present less load than the crank sees while driving 4 feet of steel blades through ant hills, small logs, etc with the load transferred to the crank through a cantilevered pulley. FWIW, Charlie On 12/29/2010 10:06 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote: > George > I don't think the direct drive Generac option is a good choice for at > least two reasons. First, it doesn't sound like you will be happy with > the performance if it will even fly. > Another reason is the ability of that engine to accept a direct drive > prop. My experience with the VW conversion indicates that there was a > long and checkered development process in getting a reliable engine. > The first concern is a prop hub attachment. Does anyone make a prop > hub for direct attachment to the Generac? > Next is how will the Generac handle the gyroscopic and harmonic loads > of a direct drive prop? VWs had to change to forged crankshafts with a > hardened key way and a custom deep drilled and taped prop mounting > bolt hole to handle the harmonic loads and then they require only wood > props. Also this is with a engine that has fairly even firing pulses. > The Generac has two cylinders in a V configuration. This is not a good > choice for driving a prop. I know Valley had to develop a custom one > way slipping redrive to handle the Generac's nasty harmonics. To > handle the gyroscopic loads most VW engines now use a custom main > bearing machined into the prop end of the engine case. It is four or > five times the surface area of the original. Oh yes and one final > issue is the thrust loading on the crank. > Besides that no big deal go for it. > Again as always worth what you paid for it. > Rick Neilsen > 1st Redrive VW powered MKIIIC > > On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 5:15 AM, George Bearden > wrote: > > > > > > Direct drive Kolbs do not do well and have never performed well > on any > model Kolb. > > I hear you, but would like a few more details. I have been > following this > thread because I have a Kolb FS-1. I read about the Kolb powered > by the > Generac, and the struggles Mr. young had. He said his plane (FSII) > weighed > in at 435 dry and empty. I *think* mine will come in between > 280-300# with > Generac (if I go that way). I have been considering trying out the > Generac > direct-drive on there. > > > When compared to an engine with a reduction drive, there is a marked > performance increase with reduction drives. > > I understand that this will cost me performance. I am just > wondering how > much. I can/probably will get a PSRU, but want to look at direct-drive > before giving up on it. Would any of you care to throw out some > guesses as > to how it would perform? I weigh a lil more than 210# but getting > lighter as > we speak. > > > As a direct drive Kolbster,I could not agree with you more. > > G.Aman > > Mr. Aman! What kind of setup do you have? > > > Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain > > Mark Twain had a lot of things right, but a man such as himself isn't > qualified to speak on 'faith'. He doesn't know diddly about it. But I > respect your right to quote him, and would fight to the death to > protect my > right to needle you about it a lil bit. :-) > > "Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole > staircase". > - Martin Luther King, Jr. > > And I would add, "particularly when you know who built it" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.