Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:36 AM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Thom Riddle)
2. 05:57 AM - Re: throttle cable splitter failure (Richard Pike)
3. 06:45 AM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Dana Hague)
4. 06:46 AM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Roger Lee)
5. 08:58 AM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Frankd)
6. 09:33 AM - Re: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (John Hauck)
7. 10:41 AM - Re: throttle cable splitter failure (Jimmy Young)
8. 11:57 AM - Re: Re: throttle cable splitter failure (Richard Girard)
9. 02:13 PM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (zeprep251@aol.com)
10. 02:30 PM - Re: throttle cable splitter failure (George Alexander)
11. 02:41 PM - Re: throttle cable splitter failure (b young)
12. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: throttle cable splitter failure (frank goodnight)
13. 03:02 PM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (ces308)
14. 06:14 PM - Re: Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin for VW Engines (George Bearden)
15. 07:01 PM - Re: Re: Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin for VW Engines (Richard Girard)
16. 07:40 PM - Interesting video (Richard Girard)
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Rick's recommendations are good ones and hitting on the most probable causes. However,
the Jabiru installation manual states that the acceptable maximum fuel
pressure is only 3 psi.
>From Jabiru Installation manual:
4.4 Pressure to Carburettor (above ambient)
Maximum 20 kPa (3 psi)
Minimum 5 kPa (0.75 psi)
and
11.3 Mechanical Fuel Pump
The mechanical fuel pump is mounted on the engine crankcase and is camshaft driven.
It is
designed to supply fuel at the pressure described in the following paragraph. If
fitted, the
electrical boost pump must also fulfill the fuel input criteria for the carburettor,
given below.
11.4 Carburettor
A Bing constant depression type 94/40 is used. This carburettor has a minimum delivery
pressure of 5 kPa (0.75 Psi) and a maximum pressure of 20 kPa (3 psi). To confirm
that the
fuel system is capable of delivering this pressure a fuel flow test must be performed.
To check pressure, insert a T piece between the mechanical pump and the carby.
Test boost pump with engine off, then mechanical fuel pump with engine on, then
combine with electrical boost pump as well, before first flight.
A method for performing a fuel flow test is available from Jabiru if required.
A drip deflector
to deflect overflowing fuel from the exhaust system is supplied as standard equipment
on the
engine.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
If you make up your own cables, you can easily guarantee that the cables will not
pull out of the swedge. There is a countersunk end on the swedge, push the
cable through so that the countersunk end is at the cable end. Push about 3/32"
of cable through and then rat tail it severely with a small tool, and then pull
it back in as far as it will go, it should be physically impossible to pull
it through. If that is the case, then solder it.
The attached pictures ought to give you the idea.
Richard Pike
MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
At 12:18 AM 1/9/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>...but all it takes is one imperfection to make it leak. Get a magnifying
>glass and look the brass seat over carefully. If in doubt replace it.
How often should one replace the float needle/seat? Or put another way,
how often do they fail?
Not the same engine or carb, (mine is a Cuyuna with Mikuni carb), but I had
what appears to be the same thing, engine flooding while running, after it
had been running fine all year. Happened once before, a few years back,
and although the needle/seat didn't look bad then, I replaced it and the
problem didn't happen again (until now). This time it almost put me down
in a farm field. I haven't taken the carb apart yet,but I've ordered a
Viton tipped needle (the old one was steel).
-Dana
--
Society is like a stew. If you don't keep it stirred up, you get a lot of
scum on top.
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Fuel venting causes:
1. float arms not adjusted properly. Fuel level to high in the bowl. (number
one cause and an easy fix)
2. rough running engine or poor engine mounts causing the engine to shake
so the floats can't properly control the level.
3. boost pump in series and running all the time and has too much fuel
pressure to the carb. (not always a problem, but needs to be ruled out)
4. carb not mounted straight. Tilted to one side or the other too much.
5. debris around the carb needle and not effectively controlling fuel flow.
Go after number 1 first and make sure your carb is not tilted.
--------
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated
Rotax Repair Center
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Hi guys,
thanks for the suggestions.
I do have an electric pump mounted at the bottom level of the tanks and it is a
Facet (P/N4015) 4.5Max PSI , but I did not have it on while I get this condition.
I now see that Aircraft spruce have a lower PSI pump (!).
I have checked that the carb is not tilting side to side and one thing that came
to mind is that it does tilt front to back due to the angle of the whole airframe
so I can adjust the floats to close sooner. The overflow holes are towards
the rear of the bowl.
Engine Vibration appears normal, actually quite smooth so this is not a concern.
I will double check the fuel pressure from the mechanical pump if adjusting the
floats to close sooner does not work. I will also test both pumps operating
in sequence to see if this causes a problem.
Replacing the brass insert is on the list if none of the above works.
Lots to do, thanks again for the pointers.
FrankD
Soon to be fixed M3X
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
thanks for the suggestions.
FrankD
Frank D/Folks:
Correct float bowl level is critical to proper carb operation, as is the
fuel float bowl static port and the static port in the intake lip of the
carb.
Float level to high, engine runs rich. Float level to low, engine runs
lean. Set the level per your engine manufacturer's specs.
Correct length and location of the float bowl chamber static port tubing is
also very important. The engine manufacturer or Bing should be able to
provide that information.
That little port and tube are not vents, but static ports. The front and
float bowl chamber static ports should read the same static pressure in
order to operate correctly.
The configuration of the Bing carbs on the 912 series engines, the way they
are delivered new is the correct set up, per the Rotax folks. However, I
discovered that configuration of accessories and location can affect airflow
and the proper static pressure. To preclude this I run my float bowl
chamber static port tube to the inside of my carb air filter covers. This
has proven to work well on my airplane.
What works for N101AB, may not work for you.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Already up to 30F from a low of 24 last night. Forecast is
snow and cold for the next week. Ugh!!!
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
List,
I think my problem was I did not have my throttle stop positioned properly. At
full throttle I still had about 3/8" to go to get to the throttle stop, so I've
probably been flying around for the past year & a half over-stressing the cable.
I'll take car of that.
Rick, The ferrule was soldered. The only kind of soldering I know of is hot, don't
know what cold soldered is. Guess I should learn though.
Rev. Pike, thanks for the photos and tip. I'll do that as well.
Frank Goodnight suggested I set the throttle cable at the carbs to go to full throttle
upon any cable failure and explained how to do it, probably will do that
too.
Thanks for the help-
--------
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
Jimmy, A cold solder joint is a defective one. Instead of bright and shiny,
the solder looks dull and leaden.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 12:38 PM, Jimmy Young <jdy100@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> List,
>
> I think my problem was I did not have my throttle stop positioned properly.
> At full throttle I still had about 3/8" to go to get to the throttle stop,
> so I've probably been flying around for the past year & a half
> over-stressing the cable. I'll take car of that.
>
> Rick, The ferrule was soldered. The only kind of soldering I know of is
> hot, don't know what cold soldered is. Guess I should learn though.
>
> Rev. Pike, thanks for the photos and tip. I'll do that as well.
>
> Frank Goodnight suggested I set the throttle cable at the carbs to go to
> full throttle upon any cable failure and explained how to do it, probably
> will do that too.
>
> Thanks for the help-
>
> --------
> Jimmy Young
> Missouri City, TX
> Kolb FS II/HKS 700
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326123#326123
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Frank,
I had this issue as well.it would happen occasionally,and I dropped the bow
l removed the needle and flushed the seat using the aux pump.It would be OK
for a while ,then flood again,even after the new needle.When it happened,
I could shut off the fuel run the engine till it leaned out which let the f
loat drop and the needle pull off the seat, then open the fuel valve and it
flushed the trash off the needle and seat and it would run fine for a few
days.Some microscopic fuzz can do it.
Starting at the tanks,new paper element filter,new lines all the way throu
gh the gascolater,aux pump to the engine driven pump and to the carb, which
IS tilted 20 degrees to even up the exhaust temps.No more problems even id
le all the time.
G.Aman MK-3C Jabiru 2200a 600hrs
-----Original Message-----
From: Frankd <frankd@foundrynet.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 8, 2011 11:32 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow
Hi guys,
looking for suggestions here about the 94/40 Bing Carb on the Jabiru 2200
engine.
I have started my engine but am getting fuel overflow at idle. I switched
out
the float needle valve as recommended with the black tipped one and cleaned
out
everything I could around the needle valve area.
It still overflows at idle.
Any ideas on how to fix this and what the issue may be?
My thoughts are:- a/ the floats are getting stuck somehow in the bowl.
b/ The needle valve seat still has some microscopic fibers or something I c
an't
see.
c/ There is a blockage of vents causing an air pocket and the floats are no
t
fully lifting (one would think the overflow vent would stop this)
Any ideas and suggestions for a fix are welcome
Thanks
Frankd
M3X
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
Without trying to refute what some of our learned colleagues have said about soldering
cable ends.......
For another view, here is the contents of a post April 2006:
George Alexander wrote:
> MAY BE A DUPLICATE RESPONSE... but anyway
> Although nico sleeves weren't involved, from a personal experience, I would like
to support what Ted said about heating the cable.
>
> In my case, the throttle cable was heated and solder applied to keep it from
slipping through the connector to the throttle lever. The good news is that it
snapped, on the ground, as part of my regular preflight. (Open the throttle to
full and close it listening for the infamous "click" of the slides as they return
home. They certainly clicked this time when the cable let go and they went
home in a hurry!)
>
> On examination, there was noticeable discoloration from the point that was soldered,
back about 1". The general consensus, of those that examined it, was that
the break was caused by the effect on the cable of the heat application. (The
failure may have been accelerated by the humid conditions here in FL.) The
cable actually rusted through. Miffed that I didn't see the rust before it broke.
Some of the discoloration/rust protruded from the connector enough to be
seen. Conceptually a good idea, with not so good results.
tc1917(at)hughes.net wrote:
> I would like to add something to the 'solder the end of the cable to keep it
> from slipping through the nico' discussion.
>
> If you heat a steel/SS cable even to solder it, it seems to lose its ability
to flex and will become brittle and break upon bending.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
After seeing how the cable splitter works, (I had never opened one up
before this) I am interested if anyone else on the Kolb list has ever
had this happen? It's something you will not catch on a pre-flight.
--------
the best prevention for this happening is to have a throtle quadrant
stop,, adjusted so the cable can't be over tight when pulled to idle for
the 912's or WOT on the 2 strokes.
boyd young
mkiii
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: throttle cable splitter failure |
Hi George,=0AI believe- accepted procedure is to dip the cable in molten
solder rather than =0Aheating the cable.=0AThat way the cable never gets ov
er 300 degrees or whatever temp the solder is. I =0Adon't think the cable
=0A=0Ais affected when it's done this way.I have also had a cable corode un
till it =0Abroke ( I live near salt water & =0A=0Athe salty air got it) , n
ot visable on even a good preflight only wa-to check is =0Ato desolder th
e cable and remove=0Ait from the housing and resolder afterwards---I do it
-2 times a year, takes less =0Athan an hour, worth it to me.=0AFor-what
its worth.=0AFrank Goodnight-=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: George Alexander <gtalexander@att.net>=0ATo: kolb-list@matroni
cs.com=0ASent: Sun, January 9, 2011 4:28:14 PM=0ASubject: Kolb-List: Re: th
Alexander" <gtalexander@att.net>=0A=0AWithout trying to refute what some o
f our learned colleagues have said about =0Asoldering cable ends.......=0A
=0AFor another view, here is the contents of a post April 2006:=0A=0AGeorge
Alexander wrote:=0A=0A> MAY BE A DUPLICATE RESPONSE... but anyway =0A> Alt
hough nico sleeves weren't involved, from a personal experience, I would
=0A>like to support what Ted said about heating the cable. =0A>=0A> =0A> In
my case, the throttle cable was heated and solder applied to keep it from
=0A>slipping through the connector to the throttle lever. The good news is
that it =0A>snapped, on the ground, as part of my regular preflight. (Open
the throttle to =0A>full and close it listening for the infamous "click" of
the slides as they =0A>return home. They certainly clicked this time when
the cable let go and they =0A>went home in a hurry!) =0A>=0A> =0A> On exami
nation, there was noticeable discoloration from the point that was =0A>sold
ered, back about 1". The general consensus, of those that examined it, was
=0A>that the break was caused by the effect on the cable of the heat applic
ation. =0A>(The failure may have been accelerated by the humid conditions h
ere in FL.) The =0A>cable actually rusted through. Miffed that I didn't see
the rust before it =0A>broke. Some of the discoloration/rust protruded fro
m the connector enough to be =0A>seen. Conceptually a good idea, with not s
o good results. =0A>=0A=0A=0Atc1917(at)hughes.net wrote: =0A=0A> I would li
ke to add something to the 'solder the end of the cable to keep it =0A> fro
m slipping through the nico' discussion. =0A>- =0A> If you heat a steel/S
S cable even to solder it, it seems to lose its ability to =0A>flex and wil
l become brittle and break upon bending.=0A=0A=0A--------=0AGeorge Alexande
r=0AFS II R503- N709FS=0Ahttp://www.oh2fly.net=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this to
pic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=326148#
====================
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Hi Jabbers..
As you all know I had the problem with the float needle too and after replacing
the needle had the same problem...after 3 successful forced landings in 3 weeks,we
finally fixed it today...I'm not so sure it was even the float needle to
start with...today I got a fuel pressure reading and it was putting out 7 lbs
of pressure ! Disconnected the mechanical pump and ran it on the electric pump
that was putting out 2-3.2 lbs and it ran perfect ! I removed the mechanical
pump,placed an extra .030 gasket between the pump and the engine and the fuel
pressure went from 7 lbs to 3.2 and stayed right there and ran great...
Why it started pumping so much more gas I have no idea...
chris ambrose
M3X/jabiru A-2200
N327CS
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| Subject: | RE: Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin for VW Engines |
> "Some folks" aren't very bright.
You have passed judgment already?
> You torque the case while rotating the crank to make sure a main bearing
hasn't jumped off it's locating dowel pin.
If "some folks" are fairly resourceful and careful, might they not have
anticipated this need and provided for it?
> Piston drag will mask the symptom until damage is done.
Unless someone has anticipated the problem and provided for it.
These VW engines were not used in aircraft applications.
> Good way to ruin parts without even running the engine.
I bought an expensive Pontiac someone had rebuilt and locked up this way.
When it wouldn't turn over after engine installation they let it sit for a
coupla years then sold it to me for a fraction of its value. WITH an engine
full of new parts. :-)
Ran good after reassembly.
GeoB
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin for VW Engines |
George, Build four or five VW engines and report back.
Rick
On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 8:11 PM, George Bearden <gab16@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > "Some folks" aren't very bright.
>
> You have passed judgment already?
>
> > You torque the case while rotating the crank to make sure a main bearing
> hasn't jumped off it's locating dowel pin.
>
> If "some folks" are fairly resourceful and careful, might they not have
> anticipated this need and provided for it?
>
> > Piston drag will mask the symptom until damage is done.
>
> Unless someone has anticipated the problem and provided for it.
>
> These VW engines were not used in aircraft applications.
>
> > Good way to ruin parts without even running the engine.
>
> I bought an expensive Pontiac someone had rebuilt and locked up this way.
> When it wouldn't turn over after engine installation they let it sit for a
> coupla years then sold it to me for a fraction of its value. WITH an engine
> full of new parts. :-)
>
> Ran good after reassembly.
>
> GeoB
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
Message 16
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| Subject: | Interesting video |
If you remember when one of the boys from the A/V dept brought the projector
to class and set it up to run, you'll love this.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Kolb Mk IIIC
582 Gray head
4.00 C gearbox
3 blade WD
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable
to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
- G.K. Chesterton
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