Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Heavy Passengers (John Hauck)
2. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Heavy Passengers (John Hauck)
3. 08:49 AM - Re: Re: club planes? (Malcolm Brubaker)
4. 11:15 AM - Re: club planes? (Ralph B)
5. 11:21 AM - changing a posting (Ralph B)
6. 11:37 AM - Re: changing a posting (william sullivan)
7. 12:33 PM - Re: changing a posting (chris davis)
8. 01:00 PM - Re: changing a posting (Ralph B)
9. 01:30 PM - Re: Heavy Passengers (Jason Omelchuck)
10. 02:55 PM - Re: Re: changing a posting (Charlie England)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Passengers |
When I was flying off my 40 hours I loaded up the cockpit with a couple of
80# bags of cement and tested the forward limit, I then strapped some diving
weights around the tail to test the aft limit. Jason
Jason O/Kolbers:\
John Williamson did the same thing you did during testing of his Kolbra,
only he took it a bit further. John kept increasing weight until the Kolbra
would not fly, either forward or aft excess cg.
During one test of the rear CG limit, John stalled the Kolbra to discover it
would not recover from the stall. Full power was required to get out of the
stall and fly again.
I sure miss my flying buddy.
john h
MKIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Passengers |
Several heavy pilot vignettes from of old:
Dennis
Dennis S/Kolbers:
Thanks for sharing your stories. I am looking forward to many more. There
is a lot of Kolb history, but most of it is in our memories and not on
paper. What I thought would remain vivid in my memory yesterday is not
necessarily so today.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: club planes? |
for those following this thread in-depth and looking toward a solution, ple
ase =0Aread this article and give your feed-back.=C2- also, looking into
templates for =0Aagreements...=0A=0ACo-Ownership: Navigating Airplane Partn
erships -=C2-Plane=C2-& Pilot...=0A21 Oct 2008=C2- This is t
he simplest=C2-multiple-owner=C2-arrangement.=C2- There are
=0Aseveral agreement=C2-templates=C2-online (for example, try=C2-AOPA
's=C2- indirect operating =0Acosts like pilot=C2-training, han
gars, etc.=C2-=0A=C2-Malcolm Brubaker =0AMichigan Sport=0APilo
t Repair =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS=0A(989)513-3022 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0AFrom: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: ko
lb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, February 11, 2011 2:58:00 PM=0ASubject:
Re: Kolb-List: Re: club planes?=0A=0AOn 2/11/2011 11:01 AM, Malcolm Brubake
r wrote: =0AAnother point of view, same basic subject - flight training in
ELSA, a different =0Aconcept of dealing with it.=0A>Roger Mills has posted
this following a conversation with EAA.=0A>=0A>Date: Thu, February 10, 2011
11:58 am=0A>To: <fly-ul@yahoogroups. com>=0A>=0A>Per EAA---(as of 1 hour a
go)=0A>An E is an E is an E! Regardless of whether it is kit or plans built
, EAB or =0A>ELSA.=0A>An experimental category aircraft of any type cannot
be formally rented out or =0A>used by anyone "for hire" in any way!!!!!=0A>
Cost sharing for 'friendly' use by other than the owner is OK to a point--b
e =0A>ready to prove it.=0A>A group of people can form a "club" as an LLC,
corp or partnership for the =0A>purpose of building, owning and flying any
experimental aircraft.=0A>The orgainization that functions as a fund raiser
must be a separate entity from =0A>the one that owns the experimental airc
raft.=0A>The members or partners can be the same people, BUT, separate orga
nizational =0A>chart etc.=0A>(Even EAA chapters, as the rules stand now, ca
n build but not own an aircraft. =0A>This is being worked on to correct.)
=0A>Plans or scratch built automatically qualify for the "51%", only approv
ed kits =0A>qualify, ELSA can be any % but exacly like the SLSA.=0A>A repai
rmans certificate for an EAB can be issued to only one person for any =0A>s
pecific aircraft by N number only.=0A>A repairmans certificate for an ELSA
requires the course and MAY include the =0A>model???=0A>Without a repairman
s certificate only an AP or better can sign the annual.=0A>Any flight instr
uctor can be paid to teach in any experimental aircraft as long =0A>as they
have the qualifications necessary.=0A>The flight instructor may or may not
be an owner/partner in the aircraft.=0A>Flight instruction may be given to
the level allowed by the equipment installed =0A>in the aircraft.=0A>(I th
ink this last one means that you can get full IFR if the aircraft has the
=0A>stuff)=0A>The individual owner/builder of a two place aircraft, who has
received an N =0A>number for that aircraft, is the only one who can "teach
" anyone else to fly =0A>that aircraft until an otherwise qualified flight
instructor has been "taught".=0A>(I am not sure how to really works--on the
surface it seems to mean that if you =0A>built it, flew off the restrictio
ns and got an N number-you are a qualified =0A>flight instructor for that a
ircraft only?????, and can be paid to teach in that =0A>aircraft???)=0A>(I
was specifically told that since flight instruction is desired--the FAA has
=0A>not restricted the ability of a flight instructor to teach in an exper
imental- =0A>--EAB or ELSA. You just CANNOT charge a fee for the aircraft i
tself.)=0A>(I was also told that insurance is problematic in an experimenta
l of any =0A>kind--Falcon insurance does it---rates are much different for
a Christen Eagle =0A>vs a Pete etc. I have not spoken with them.)=0A>=0A>Ag
ain, Per the EAA. (my comments)=0A>=0A>=C2-One small item to add--my comm
ent---based on the sum of the conversation and =0A>not specifically stated:
=0A>=0A>The way the rule is written it gets real grey if one partner pays m
ore than his =0A>or her share of the hourly cost. Say 6 people form a partn
ership to build an =0A>experimental aircraft---If one partner pays the enti
re cost of a one hour flight =0A>then the others partners benefit. Confused
me for a while but I can see where =0A>the FAA may see that as 5 owners re
nting the aircraft to the sixth partner. I =0A>suspect that this kind of th
ing is why the FAA frouns on "club" ownership of an =0A>experimental.=0A>Po
sted by : Roger Mills on UL forum=0A>=0A>=0A>=C2-Malcolm Brubaker =0A>Mic
higan Sport=0A>Pilot Repair =0A>LSRM-A, PPC, WS=0A>(989)513-3022=0A>A coupl
e of thoughts:=0A=0Aquote=0AThe individual owner/builder of a two place air
craft, who has received an N =0Anumber for that aircraft, is the only one w
ho can "teach" anyone else to fly =0Athat aircraft until an otherwise quali
fied flight instructor has been "taught".=0Aunquote=0A=0AI've never seen th
at in the form that it's written. I wonder if it is specific =0Ato the 'exe
mption' for transition training in a homebuilt experimental. That =0Aexempt
ion isn't for what most would consider flight training; it's an exemption
=0Ato provide *transition* instruction for a qualified pilot to get comfort
able in =0A*that particular design*, new-to-him/her experimental a/c. For e
xample, a 5000 =0Ahr ex-military pilot who's only flown C-130's & never a l
ight plane, would need =0Ainstruction to handle a taildragger homebuilt lik
e a Thorp T-18 (or Kolb).=0A=0AOn the overall question of 'club' a/c: peopl
e may be getting the wrong =0A(undesirable) answer because they are asking
the wrong question. The word 'club' =0Aprobably does trigger a reaction fro
m the FAA, because most clubs operate as =0Abusinesses, charging monthly du
es, etc. If the question was phrased as 'multiple =0Aowners', or 'partnersh
ip',=C2- there would probably be a different answer. If you =0Asearch FAA
records, you'll find many experimental homebuilts registered to =0Apartner
ships, and even corporations. As the EAA said, any experimental can be =0Au
sed for instruction, as long as there is no payment to the owner for the us
e of =0Athe a/c (commercial use). I have read about (but have no direct exp
erience) that =0Aan experimental can even be loaned to a non-owner for trai
ning. Memory is less =0Aclear on whether a third-party instructor can be pa
id in that scenario. The =0Aquestion of 5 owners 'renting' to the 6th owner
probably wouldn't come up as =0Along as most of the owners fly at least oc
casionally, & all share more or less =0Aequally in fixed costs like insuran
ce & annuals. =0A=0A=0AI'd bet that a more likely problem is going to be fi
nding an instructor whose =0Aliability insurance will cover him while instr
ucting in a homebuilt. Not saying =0Ait makes sense; it's just an unfortuna
====================== =0A=0A
=0A=0A =0A_________________________________________________________________
___________________=0ADon't get soaked. Take a quick peek at the forecast
/shortcuts/#loc_weather
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: club planes? |
John Hauck
> Folks, see if you can clean up your posts prior to hitting the send button. Leave
enough of the previous post as a reference to know where you are
> coming from. Helps a whole bunch when we are searching for info in the Kolb
> List Archives.
>
> Thanks,
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
Posts can be cleaned up using the "edit" button to the right. Here's how you do
it: Log in and go to your post that you made. It doesn't matter how old it is.
Click the "edit" button to the right (not the right mouse click) and change/delete
what you need to and click on "submit" below. That's it. Try it and then
look for the new posting.
I thought you guys might like to know since there are a lot of posts that are sent
and later changed by adding a new posting.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
24 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
3 years flying it
150 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330784#330784
Message 5
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| Subject: | changing a posting |
Posts can be cleaned up using the "edit" button to the right. Here's how you do
it: Log in and go to your post that you made. It doesn't matter how old it is.
Click the "edit" button to the right (not the right mouse click) and change/delete
what you need to and click on "submit" below. That's it. Try it and then
look for the new posting.
I thought you guys might like to know since there are a lot of posts that are sent
and later changed by adding a new posting.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
24 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
3 years flying it
150 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330785#330785
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: changing a posting |
- Ralph- I don't have an "edit" button, or a "submit" button.- Maybe yo
u have a different format than I get.
-
-------------------------
-------------------- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------- Windsor Locks,
Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------- FS 447
--- On Sat, 2/12/11, Ralph B <rstar447@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ralph B <rstar447@gmail.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: changing a posting
Posts can be cleaned up using the "edit" button to the right. Here's how yo
u do it: Log in and go to your post that you made. It doesn't matter how ol
d it is. Click the "edit" button to the right (not the right mouse click) a
nd change/delete what you need to and click on "submit" below. That's it. T
ry it and then look for the new posting.
I thought you guys might like to know since there are a lot of posts that a
re sent and later changed by adding a new posting.
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
24 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
3 years flying it
150 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330785#330785
le, List Admin.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: changing a posting |
ME EITHER=0A-Chris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from
crash building Firefly =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AF
rom: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>=0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Sat, February 12, 2011 2:33:03 PM=0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: cha
nging a posting=0A=0A=0A- Ralph- I don't have an "edit" button, or a "sub
mit" button.- Maybe you have a =0Adifferent format than I get.=0A=0A-
-------------------------
------------------- Bill Sullivan=0A
-------------------------
-------------------- Windsor Locks,
Ct.=0A----------------------
----------------------- FS 44
7=0A=0A--- On Sat, 2/12/11, Ralph B <rstar447@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0A=0A>Fr
om: Ralph B <rstar447@gmail.com>=0A>Subject: Kolb-List: changing a posting
=0A>To: kolb-list@matronics.com=0A>Date: Saturday, February 12, 2011, 2:19
m>=0A>=0A>Posts can be cleaned up using the "edit" button to the right. Her
e's how you do =0A>it: Log in and go to your post that you made. It doesn't
matter how old it is. =0A>Click the "edit" button to the right (not the ri
ght mouse click) and =0A>change/delete what you need to and click on "submi
t" below. That's it. Try it =0A>and then look for the new posting. =0A>=0A>
=0A>I thought you guys might like to know since there are a lot of posts th
at are =0A>sent and later changed by adding a new posting. =0A>=0A>=0A>Ralp
h B=0A>=0A>--------=0A>Ralph B=0A>Original Firestar 447=0A>N91493 E-AB=0A>1
000 hours=0A>24 years flying it=0A>Kolbra 912UL=0A>N20386=0A>3 years flying
it=0A>150 hrs=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic online here:=0A>=0A>http:
//forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330785#330785 =0A>http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Kolb-Lis-----> http://forums.matronbsp; - -
- =0A>---- List Contribution Web Site - http://www=====
===================0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A
============ =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: changing a posting |
williamtsullivan(at)att.n
> Ralph- I don't have an "edit" button, or a "submit" button. Maybe you have a
different format than I get.
>
>
William, you can get on the list here instead of getting your Kolb postings in
your email. This will free up your email from the Kolb postings and then you can
edit and post as I stated. This is much better than the email version.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=5
Ralph B
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
24 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
3 years flying it
150 hrs
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330800#330800
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Heavy Passengers |
I understand setting weight and balance for the aft range of the cg envelope. The
question was meant as what did you test? Stalls with all flap settings, both
approach and departure? Stalls while banked to right and left? Accelerated stalls?
Rick Girard
Hello Rick
I did power off stalls only, with flaps and no flaps. All of the other configurations
are too exciting for me.
Jason
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330801#330801
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: changing a posting |
On 2/12/2011 2:58 PM, Ralph B wrote:
> --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Ralph B"<rstar447@gmail.com>
>
> williamtsullivan(at)att.n
>> Ralph- I don't have an "edit" button, or a "submit" button. Maybe you have
a different format than I get.
>>
>>
>
> William, you can get on the list here instead of getting your Kolb postings in
your email. This will free up your email from the Kolb postings and then you
can edit and post as I stated. This is much better than the email version.
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=5
>
> Ralph B
>
> --------
> Ralph B
> Original Firestar 447
> N91493 E-AB
> 1000 hours
> 24 years flying it
> Kolbra 912UL
> N20386
> 3 years flying it
> 150 hrs
Or, if you prefer email, like me, then start with opening your email by
clicking 'reply', as you normally would.
Then, just point your mouse at the starting point of the text you want
to delete, hold down the left mouse button, & drag the mouse to the end
of the text you want to delete, and release the button.
That text will be highlighted (typically changed to a blue background on
a 'stock' windows system).
Then, hit your choice of <enter> or <spacebar> or <backspace> or
<delete> or just about any other text or number key, & all the
highlighted text will disappear & be replaced by one keystroke of
whatever key you hit (enter, space, backspace, etc).
Type your response normally & hit send.
(But please leave enough of the original message that your response has
some context. Some of us get hundreds of emails a day in our inboxes &
may skip to the most recent post to save time.)
While we're talking about list courtesy, how about this: If we reply to
a message that already has a previous reply, try to follow the reply
format of the previous reply (top reply, top reply again, or bottom
reply, bottom reply again). We each have our preferences, but a
half-dozen replies with half on bottom (where they should be :-) ) &
half on top & the email has become nothing but gibberish. It would be
nice to preserve chronological order, even if it's backward order.
Thanks,
Charlie
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