---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/13/11: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:37 AM - Re: Heavy Passengers (Thom Riddle) 2. 07:36 AM - registering an experimental aircraft (Mike Welch) 3. 08:08 AM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (Mike Welch) 4. 08:46 AM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (John Hauck) 5. 08:50 AM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (fducker@aol.com) 6. 08:51 AM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (frank goodnight) 7. 08:54 AM - Re: Heavy Passengers (Ralph B) 8. 08:54 AM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (Frankd) 9. 09:14 AM - Registering an aircraft (Richard Girard) 10. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: registering an experimental aircraft (Mike Welch) 11. 12:30 PM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (ces308) 12. 12:55 PM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (b young) 13. 01:36 PM - Re: Re: registering an experimental aircraft (John Hauck) 14. 03:03 PM - Re: Re: registering an experimental aircraft (Mike Welch) 15. 03:25 PM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (Frankd) 16. 07:36 PM - Re: Re: registering an experimental aircraft (Ellery Batchelder Jr) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Heavy Passengers From: "Thom Riddle" ..."During one test of the rear CG limit, John stalled the Kolbra to discover it would not recover from the stall. Full power was required to get out of the stall and fly again..." John, You just pointed out one of the very few, if not the only, real advantages of high thrust line aircraft like our Kolbs. Other aircraft with "normal" thrust lines may not have been able to recover from this condition. -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful. Ann Landers Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330867#330867 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:18 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: Kolb-List: registering an experimental aircraft Kolb guys=2C I am nearing the final stages of building my MkIII=2C or at least I can s ee light at the end of the tunnel. If I were to 'guess' at this point when I think I may be finished=2C I'd say around May. (one things for sure=2C I can get more don e when the temos warm up!! Supposed to be upper 50s today...woo hoo!!) Back to my point. I have just gone to the EAA "OSHKOSH 365" for members =2C and read their directions for registering an experimental aircraft. First question=3B Has anyone bought their "$12.99 forms/instructions kit "=2C and found it not worth the money......or is it a pretty good deal? The reason I ask is because they do list all the forms=2C etc=2C online =2C and give a brief synopsis of the steps involved. They even provide links to all the referen ced forms so a guy could print them. Any thoughts on their kit? Since I have never gone through this process=2C I have very little idea o f what to expect. I have plenty and sufficient=3B photos=2C receipts=2C logs=2C parts brochures=2C etc. I think I have this part covered fairly well. Of course=2C I will have the W&B and Aircraft Limitations already filled out. Does anyone have a sample of their "OPERATOR LIMITATIONS" handbook they are proud of=2C and wouldn't mind sharing a copy of?? From your experience=2C what are the types of things a DAR is going to lo ok for? Will he be mostly concerned with documentation=2C or will he be focused on the airplane itself? Or both?? Do you have any recommendations=2C so I can save myself the added expense of a second trip for him? Like I said=2C I'm beginning the initial stages of registration. All adv ice and pointers are greatly appreciated. Mike Welch MkIII ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:37 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: registering an experimental aircraft Kolb guys=2C when the 'temps' warm up. I'm not sure what a temo is. M ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:49 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registering an experimental aircraft Like I said, I'm beginning the initial stages of registration. All advice and pointers are greatly appreciated. Mike Welch Call your nearest FSDO. Get them to send you a packet for registration and inspection of your homebuilt. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:50:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registering an experimental aircraft From: fducker@aol.com Hi Mike/Gang. I just got my Airworthyness Cert last week. I did all my registration paperwork using the KOLB instructions and sending all that off to the FAA before I got the EAA package. That part is straightforward and you just need the correct documents and ma il it all off. Don't forget to get correct notarization. The EAA package is worth it , IMHO, because they give you the stickers you need. and its all very clear. I only got one "EXPERIMENTAL" sticker but wan ted two, so got some more from Aircraft Spruce. They even send you a firep roof plate to attach to the tail after you get it engraved. All the rest to label the cockpit was in the package. I got in touch with the Local EAA chapter and got a volunteer to come and d o an inspection of my plane, boy was I surprised at all the stuff he "Sugg ested" I change.. mostly making sure bolts and nuts were put on correctly a nd had two treads showing on locknuts. This cost me lunch..Good deal. I would highly recommend this step. This REALLY helped. Then I called the FSDO and they said use a DAR. I cal led the DAR and he quoted $500 to come do the airworthyness check, but he would also do a thorough inspection.,. (But Expensive!!) I got back in touch with the FSDO after talking to my local flight school a nd getting a contact they deal with, and got a schedule for an inspection within a week... Great. They came and took a look at the aircraft, asked a few questions and then w e sat down and went thru the paperwork for the Airworthyness.. and that wa s it... Cost = Taxes $0. = Cool. The contents of the EAA package were complete and the FSDO folks liked what they saw. I'm sure it would work for a DAR too. Good luck, frankD M3X, N1014S. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Welch Sent: Sun, Feb 13, 2011 8:08 am Subject: RE: Kolb-List: registering an experimental aircraft Kolb guys, when the 'temps' warm up. I'm not sure what a temo is. M ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:46 AM PST US From: frank goodnight Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registering an experimental aircraft The $ 12.99 was, for me money well spent.- My DAR was mostly interested i n =0Apaperwork.=0AFor what it's worth=0AFrank=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________ _________________=0AFrom: Mike Welch =0ATo: kolb-l ist@matronics.com=0ASent: Sun, February 13, 2011 9:25:14 AM=0ASubject: Kolb -List: registering an experimental aircraft=0A=0AKolb guys,=0A-=0A- I a m nearing the final stages of building my MkIII, or at least I can see =0Al ight=0Aat the end of the tunnel.- If I were to 'guess' at this point when I think I may =0Abe =0A=0Afinished, I'd say around May.- (one things for sure, I can get more done when =0Athe =0A=0Atemos warm up!!- Supposed to be upper 50s today...woo hoo!!)=0A-=0A- Back to my point.-- I have just gone to the EAA "OSHKOSH 365" for members, =0Aand read their directio ns for registering an experimental aircraft.=0A-=0A- First question;- Has anyone bought their "$12.99 forms/instructions kit", and =0Afound =0A =0Ait not worth the money......or is it a pretty good deal?-- =0A- Th e reason I ask is because they do list all the forms, etc, online, -and g ive =0Aa brief =0A=0Asynopsis-of the steps involved.- They even provide links to all the-referenced =0Aforms =0A=0Aso a guy could print them.- ------Any thoughts on their kit?=0A-=0A- Since I have never gone through this process, I have very little idea-of what=0Ato expect. -- I have plenty and sufficient; photos, receipts, logs, parts =0Abroch ures, etc.=0AI think I have this part covered fairly well.- Of course, I will have the W&B =0Aand=0AAircraft Limitations already filled out.=0A- D oes anyone have a sample of their "OPERATOR LIMITATIONS" handbook they=0Aar e proud of, and wouldn't mind sharing a copy of??=0A-=0A- From your exp erience, what are the types of things a DAR is going to look for?=0AWill he be mostly concerned with documentation, or will he be focused on the=0Aair plane itself?- Or both??=0A- Do you have any recommendations, so I can save myself the added expense of =0Aa second trip for him?=0A-=0A- Like I said, I'm-beginning the-initial stages of registration.- All advic e and =0Apointers are =0A=0Agreatly appreciated.=0A-=0AMike Welch=0AMkIII ============== =0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:48 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Heavy Passengers From: "Ralph B" I hope this fellow doesn't mind me using his picture to show for weight and balance purposes. He would be the limit on passenger weight I would take in my Kolbra. On takeoff with the 80hp 912, it climbed ever so slow. I let him have the stick after reaching altitude and we flew for about 15 minutes. I brought him back to the airport and came in hotter than usual to make a very smooth landing. He was impressed and it was a good day. The weight and balance states that I can take no more than 250 lbs in passenger weight with a full tank of fuel. I feel more comfortable with 200 lbs or less. He was well over 200 lbs and over 6 feet. I'm at 200 lbs and my wife is a 200 lb lady, so I got used to carrying heavy loads. Ralph B -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 1000 hours 24 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 3 years flying it 150 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330892#330892 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/paul__139.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:49 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft From: "Frankd" Hi Mike/Gang. I just got my Airworthyness Cert last week. I did all my registration paperwork using the KOLB instructions and sending all that off to the FAA before I got the EAA package. That part is straightforward and you just need the correct documents and mail it all off. Don't forget to get correct notarization. The EAA package is worth it , IMHO, because they give you the stickers you need. and its all very clear. I only got one "EXPERIMENTAL" sticker but wanted two, so got some more from Aircraft Spruce. They even send you a fireproof plate to attach to the tail after you get it engraved. All the rest to label the cockpit was in the package. I got in touch with the Local EAA chapter and got a volunteer to come and do an inspection of my plane, boy was I surprised at all the stuff he "Suggested" I change.. mostly making sure bolts and nuts were put on correctly and had two treads showing on locknuts. This cost me lunch..Good deal. I would highly recommend this step. This REALLY helped. Then I called the FSDO and they said use a DAR. I called the DAR and he quoted $500 to come do the airworthyness check, but he would also do a thorough inspection.,. (But Expensive!!) I got back in touch with the FSDO after talking to my local flight school and getting a contact they deal with, and got a schedule for an inspection within a week... Great. They came and took a look at the aircraft, asked a few questions and then we sat down and went thru the paperwork for the Airworthyness.. and that was it... Cost = Taxes $0. = Cool. The contents of the EAA package were complete and the FSDO folks liked what they saw. I'm sure it would work for a DAR too. Good luck, frankD M3X, N1014S. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330893#330893 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:14:47 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Registering an aircraft From: Richard Girard No matter FSDO or DAR, make sure you get your repairman's certificate for the aircraft. Without it you'll be paying an A & P for an annual conditional inspection every 12 months. Some do it without being asked, some don't. Just be sure you get it. Rick Girard -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:11 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft Frank=2C Thank you for that very informative=2C and up-to-date response!! I'll pr int it out and make sure I have all the bases covered you suggested. Excellent detail of what I'm about to go through. Thanks! Rick=2C Yeah=2C re=3B the repairman's certificate. That's a biggie for me. I sa w the form and it is one of my "favorites". Thanks for the reminder!! John H=2C I did contact my FSDO a couple of years ago=2C and had then send me some of the necessary registration forms=2C but it's been so long=2C I can't rem ember exactly what the guy sent. (I'll bet it didn't include the rep'r certifica te form). I wanted to know if spending the money on the EAA kit was worth it. (but it looks like I have this part covered thanks to Mike S) I think rounding up all the right forms is one of the easier parts of the process. Like I said=2C the EAA membership can download all the forms from their onl ine tutorial. If I can do that=2C I will=2C otherwise I will get ahold of my a rea FSDO=2C like you suggested. Thanks!!! Mike Sharp=2C Mike Sharp had purchased the EAA registration kit=2C and has sent me a co py of the booklet. All I need now are the actual forms. Thanks=2C Mike!!! Th e only thing I don't get is the 'experimental' stickers=2C or the engraveable plate. No problem on those=2C I know they are obtainable elsewhere. All=2C I appreciate everyone's help. Thanks a bunch!! I have one more question regarding DAR's and FSDO inspectors. Do I have to find a DAR AND also a FSDO inspector? Can just the FSDO guy do the job?? There's not likely going to be even a DAR near me. I'll probably have to r un the plane up to K.C. or St Louis.=2C or does the FSDO guy come to me if I ask him to? Mike Welch MkIII installing the ELT ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:30:31 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft From: "ces308" Mike... check with FSDO on your repairman's cert too...Here in Michigan, you had to do it on line and they gave you a number for one of the FSDO guys to look over then I had to bring my build book,and all paperwork for them to go over,then we both sat at the computer and filled out the rest of the forms...Whew !! an hour and a half later I had my temporary cert. It's not like it used to be ,so make sure you check ! Good luck! chris ambrose M3X/Jab N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330914#330914 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:51 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: registering an experimental aircraft Back to my point. I have just gone to the EAA "OSHKOSH 365" for members, and read their directions for registering an experimental aircraft. First question; Has anyone bought their "$12.99 forms/instructions kit", and found it not worth the money......or is it a pretty good deal? Mike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I called the fsdo and they sent all the papers for free!!! the faa inspector also came for free... he wanted to see the log,,,, I told him I did not write down what I did every time I went into the garage... but showed him a photo log.. which he accepted. then he went over the plane with a coarse tooth comb. he made a few recommendations, which I did, called him on the phone and told him I was complete with his list, then he sent the paperwork without an additional inspection. boyd young mkiii do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:02 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft I did contact my FSDO a couple of years ago, and had then send me some of the necessary registration forms, but it's been so long, I can't remember exactly what the guy sent. (I'll bet it didn't include the rep'r certificate form). I wanted to know if spending the money on the EAA kit was worth it. (but it looks like I have this part covered thanks to Mike S) Mike W/Kolbers: The Birmingham FSDO will send you a packet, as I mentioned in my previous. This packet will consist of all necessary instructions and forms to prepare for your upcoming aircraft inspection and air worthiness certificate. I can not vouch for other FSDO's, but I would think they would also offer a similar packet for homebuilt/experiemental aircraft. May have to ask them. Never know when you might be talking to a newbie that does not know about the packet. It worked for me in 1991, bet it will still work. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:19 PM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft > The Birmingham FSDO will send you a packet=2C as I mentioned in my previo us. > This packet will consist of all necessary instructions and forms to prepa re > for your upcoming aircraft inspection and air worthiness certificate. > john h Hi John=2C Yep=2C that's what I'm gonna do=2C first thing tomorrow morning. I need to do this to get the forms=2C and maybe find out how my local FSDO handles experiment al registrations. While I have them on the phone=2C I can find out about an i nspector=2C repairmen's certificate like Chris & Rick mentioned=2C ...lots of things. I hope things go as smoothly as what Boyd went through. I do want someon e to go over my plane with a fine tooth comb=2C but I don't want someone who thi nks he hasn't done his job unless he finds a boatload of things to re-do. I don't even mind re-doing things=2C providing changing them actually imp roves something. Thanks=2C Mike W Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:45 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft From: "Frankd" Hi Mike, Regarding my local FSDO, San Jose, Ca. they used to be open to walk-ins, now the door is locked and you have to schedule a visit by phone. The reply I first got when I called was " We don't have the manpower to do air worthyness inspections, go see a DAR!" OK. It took me awhile to find a cooperative person and they came to where the plane was hangered, 42 miles from the office.. No charge. The DAR would have come to the plane too but would have charged $100 for travel. I guess that manpower scheduling is an issue and that cutbacks are part of the FSDO around here. I hope you have an easier time. I asked about the repairman cert and was told to fly off the 40Hrs first and then apply, so I don't believe you have to hurry about that, but its a good thing to have. One document I got from the FSDO years ago (When the doors were open) is the Advisory Circular "Amateur-built aircraft and ultralight flight testing handbook" AC No:- 90-89A. Its full of advise on preparing for test flight, and its my bible right now. Have fun FrankD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=330947#330947 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft From: Ellery Batchelder Jr Mike the kit is well worth the price but dont expect to get the FAA to be there in a week I have waited as long as a month for them to arrive on some of the airplanes I have buil t Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Welch Sent: Sun, Feb 13, 2011 6:00 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: registering an experimental aircraft > The Birmingham FSDO will send you a packet, as I mentioned in my previou s. > This packet will consist of all necessary instructions and forms to prep are > for your upcoming aircraft inspection and air worthiness certificate. > john h Hi John, Yep, that's what I'm gonna do, first thing tomorrow morning. I need to do this to get the forms, and maybe find out how my local FSDO handles experimenta l registrations. While I have them on the phone, I can find out about an in spector, repairmen's certificate like Chris & Rick mentioned, ...lots of things. I hope things go as smoothly as what Boyd went through. I do want someo ne to go over my plane with a fine tooth comb, but I don't want someone who thin ks he hasn't done his job unless he finds a boatload of things to re-do. I don't even mind re-doing things, providing changing them actually impr oves something. Thanks, Mike W Do not archive ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.