Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:55 AM - Re: Re: club planes? (Malcolm Brubaker)
2. 12:06 PM - Minimum allowable altitude (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN)
3. 12:19 PM - ELT batteries (Mike Welch)
4. 01:35 PM - Re: Minimum allowable altitude (Thom Riddle)
5. 02:59 PM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (ces308)
6. 04:03 PM - Re: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
7. 04:14 PM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Frankd)
8. 04:25 PM - Re: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Richard Girard)
9. 06:31 PM - Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow (Thom Riddle)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: club planes? |
There has been a lot of discussion, mostly positive, and it has all been
=0Ainteresting, much of it very helpful. =0A=0AFrom the Sport Pilot Instruc
tors forum Phil Dietro, Arlynn McMahon, and a few =0Aothers have discussed
the options they have utilized. Thom Riddle has posted =0Asome inciteful qu
estions and possible solutions. =0A=0AThis is what we are looking for : oth
er "outside the box" forward thinking =0Agroups or individuals who can help
us generate a solution to the growing problem =0Aof SPCFI shortages and th
e costs involved in being able to operate. =0A=0AArlynn has offered to shar
e info regarding how an SPCFI might go about =0A"affordably" operating with
out the backing of a "regular" flight school. This is =0Anot a sarcastic st
atement. =0A=0APhil mentioned the addition of PPC & WS training - are there
existing LODAs in =0Aforce to provide for that training in ELSAs? =0A=0AHa
ving come up through the ranks of Ultralight to Sport Pilot, I also know ma
ny =0Anew UL flyers who are desperate for training they can't get. =0A=0AOu
r focus is how to go about establishing an LLC and fractional ownership pla
n =0Acentered around ELSA craft & EABs to use for the additional purpose of
training =0ASP & UL student pilots; and making this information available
to all SPCFIs. =0A=0AI have priced even the USED (aka- well flown) SLSAs, t
here aren't many =0Aavailable, and they are still in the $70,000 to $100,00
0 range. =0A=0ANot exactly within the "affordable" range of even a school w
ith more than 1 =0Ainstructor. =0A=0AThere has been response from the NAFI
(National Association of Flight =0AInstructors) that has been on a positive
note. They are very interested in =0Aworking on this solution as well. =0A
=0AAs a group, Sport Pilot may simply need to do the same thing that other
=0Aminorities have done in the past, Stand up, be counted, be recognized, a
nd not =0Atake NO for an answer. It will take time. We all realize this. Bu
t with more of =0Aus working toward the same goal, we will obtain it sooner
rather than later.-=0A-Malcolm Brubaker =0AMichigan Sport=0APilot Repa
ir =0ALSRM-A, PPC, WS=0A(989)513-3022 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: kolb-lis
t@matronics.com=0ASent: Fri, February 11, 2011 2:58:00 PM=0ASubject: Re: Ko
lb-List: Re: club planes?=0A=0AOn 2/11/2011 11:01 AM, Malcolm Brubaker wrot
e: =0AAnother point of view, same basic subject - flight training in ELSA,
a different =0Aconcept of dealing with it.=0A>Roger Mills has posted this f
ollowing a conversation with EAA.=0A>=0A>Date: Thu, February 10, 2011 11:58
am=0A>To: <fly-ul@yahoogroups. com>=0A>=0A>Per EAA---(as of 1 hour ago)=0A
>An E is an E is an E! Regardless of whether it is kit or plans built, EAB
or =0A>ELSA.=0A>An experimental category aircraft of any type cannot be for
mally rented out or =0A>used by anyone "for hire" in any way!!!!!=0A>Cost s
haring for 'friendly' use by other than the owner is OK to a point--be =0A>
ready to prove it.=0A>A group of people can form a "club" as an LLC, corp o
r partnership for the =0A>purpose of building, owning and flying any experi
mental aircraft.=0A>The orgainization that functions as a fund raiser must
be a separate entity from =0A>the one that owns the experimental aircraft.
=0A>The members or partners can be the same people, BUT, separate organizat
ional =0A>chart etc.=0A>(Even EAA chapters, as the rules stand now, can bui
ld but not own an aircraft. =0A>This is being worked on to correct.)=0A>Pla
ns or scratch built automatically qualify for the "51%", only approved kits
=0A>qualify, ELSA can be any % but exacly like the SLSA.=0A>A repairmans c
ertificate for an EAB can be issued to only one person for any =0A>specific
aircraft by N number only.=0A>A repairmans certificate for an ELSA require
s the course and MAY include the =0A>model???=0A>Without a repairmans certi
ficate only an AP or better can sign the annual.=0A>Any flight instructor c
an be paid to teach in any experimental aircraft as long =0A>as they have t
he qualifications necessary.=0A>The flight instructor may or may not be an
owner/partner in the aircraft.=0A>Flight instruction may be given to the le
vel allowed by the equipment installed =0A>in the aircraft.=0A>(I think thi
s last one means that you can get full IFR if the aircraft has the =0A>stuf
f)=0A>The individual owner/builder of a two place aircraft, who has receive
d an N =0A>number for that aircraft, is the only one who can "teach" anyone
else to fly =0A>that aircraft until an otherwise qualified flight instruct
or has been "taught".=0A>(I am not sure how to really works--on the surface
it seems to mean that if you =0A>built it, flew off the restrictions and g
ot an N number-you are a qualified =0A>flight instructor for that aircraft
only?????, and can be paid to teach in that =0A>aircraft???)=0A>(I was spec
ifically told that since flight instruction is desired--the FAA has =0A>not
restricted the ability of a flight instructor to teach in an experimental-
=0A>--EAB or ELSA. You just CANNOT charge a fee for the aircraft itself.)
=0A>(I was also told that insurance is problematic in an experimental of an
y =0A>kind--Falcon insurance does it---rates are much different for a Chris
ten Eagle =0A>vs a Pete etc. I have not spoken with them.)=0A>=0A>Again, Pe
r the EAA. (my comments)=0A>=0A>-One small item to add--my comment---base
d on the sum of the conversation and =0A>not specifically stated:=0A>=0A>Th
e way the rule is written it gets real grey if one partner pays more than h
is =0A>or her share of the hourly cost. Say 6 people form a partnership to
build an =0A>experimental aircraft---If one partner pays the entire cost of
a one hour flight =0A>then the others partners benefit. Confused me for a
while but I can see where =0A>the FAA may see that as 5 owners renting the
aircraft to the sixth partner. I =0A>suspect that this kind of thing is why
the FAA frouns on "club" ownership of an =0A>experimental.=0A>Posted by :
Roger Mills on UL forum=0A>=0A>=0A>-Malcolm Brubaker =0A>Michigan Sport
=0A>Pilot Repair =0A>LSRM-A, PPC, WS=0A>(989)513-3022=0A>A couple of though
ts:=0A=0Aquote=0AThe individual owner/builder of a two place aircraft, who
has received an N =0Anumber for that aircraft, is the only one who can "tea
ch" anyone else to fly =0Athat aircraft until an otherwise qualified flight
instructor has been "taught".=0Aunquote=0A=0AI've never seen that in the f
orm that it's written. I wonder if it is specific =0Ato the 'exemption' for
transition training in a homebuilt experimental. That =0Aexemption isn't f
or what most would consider flight training; it's an exemption =0Ato provid
e *transition* instruction for a qualified pilot to get comfortable in =0A*
that particular design*, new-to-him/her experimental a/c. For example, a 50
00 =0Ahr ex-military pilot who's only flown C-130's & never a light plane,
would need =0Ainstruction to handle a taildragger homebuilt like a Thorp T-
18 (or Kolb).=0A=0AOn the overall question of 'club' a/c: people may be get
ting the wrong =0A(undesirable) answer because they are asking the wrong qu
estion. The word 'club' =0Aprobably does trigger a reaction from the FAA, b
ecause most clubs operate as =0Abusinesses, charging monthly dues, etc. If
the question was phrased as 'multiple =0Aowners', or 'partnership',- ther
e would probably be a different answer. If you =0Asearch FAA records, you'l
l find many experimental homebuilts registered to =0Apartnerships, and even
corporations. As the EAA said, any experimental can be =0Aused for instruc
tion, as long as there is no payment to the owner for the use of =0Athe a/c
(commercial use). I have read about (but have no direct experience) that
=0Aan experimental can even be loaned to a non-owner for training. Memory i
s less =0Aclear on whether a third-party instructor can be paid in that sce
nario. The =0Aquestion of 5 owners 'renting' to the 6th owner probably woul
dn't come up as =0Along as most of the owners fly at least occasionally, &
all share more or less =0Aequally in fixed costs like insurance & annuals.
=0A=0A=0AI'd bet that a more likely problem is going to be finding an instr
uctor whose =0Aliability insurance will cover him while instructing in a ho
mebuilt. Not saying =0Ait makes sense; it's just an unfortunate reality.=0A
================= =0A=0A=0A=0A
Message 2
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| Subject: | Minimum allowable altitude |
(NOTE - subject line changed, to reflect current topic. Formerly
"registering an experimental aircraft.")
"Frankd" wrote: << BTW, she told me there is no FAA definition of
congested areas so I guess its up for interpretation.. (Loop hole!) >>
Frank, and Kolb Friends -
The reason a clear definition of "congested areas" is important to us is
so we know when it's necessary to keep 1000 feet above the ground, as
dictated to us by the FARs. Due to a lack of a definitive definition
for this term, the criteria I use is the yellow area on a sectional
chart that depicts towns and cities. Many other pilots I know also use
this as their interpretation of a "congested area." If I'm not flying
over yellow, I know it's legal to be only 500 feet above the ground and
man-made structures. And if it's a remote area with no man-made
structures (which is most of the state of New Mexico), the FARs allow us
to fly as low as we wish, consistent with safety.
How could the FAA ever argue against THAT interpretation?
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul in
Sandia Park, NM
Message 3
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Cristal=2C
I gave you the wrong battery number for the little battery in the ELT rem
ote unit.
The battery number I gave you is the Duracell "D" batteries=2C that go to t
he main unit=2C
and according to the booklet=2C it is mandatory to use that specific Durace
ll brand and
that specific battery number=2C the MN1300 "D" cells.
I should have given you the correct remote unit number=2C which is "DL1/3
NB".
If you need me to scan the battery R&R directions=2C let me know=2C and I c
an scan
the sections on battery replacements.
Mike Welch
MkIII
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Minimum allowable altitude |
"How could the FAA ever argue against THAT interpretation?
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul in
Sandia Park, NM "
The FAA argues whatever it wants to argue and each case is taken in context of
whatever else they can think of. There have been many cases (I can't quote them
but have read about them) where the FAA ruled against pilot flying less than
1,000' over a group of three houses close together but a long way from any other
buildings. If the FAA wants to rule against you they will with little reliance
on logic.
The cynic in me says they refuse to quantitatively define a congested area for
just that reason, as a catch all infraction. Because it is not quantified it is
applied inconsistently and could probably be beat by a good expensive attorney.
But even if you win, then you are on their "we don't like you" list. Once
you are on that list, I suspect some FAA employees take great pleasure in making
your life less fun than it should be.
Because of that I rarely fly below 1,000' AGL in western New York, which is nothing
at all like New Mexico's outback. The only places in this part of the world
that don't have communities fairly close together are the swamps, forests and
of course the Great and Finger Lakes... and who wants a close to ground engine
out over these areas?
If I lived in NM, I'd probably fly a lot lower a lot of the time.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.
Ann Landers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331160#331160
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Hello all....
Well,I got the head back on yesterday and flew it todayfor .5 hrs and it
ran perfect ! Ellery's catch can worked perfect and my fuel pressure stays
between 1.4 to 1.7 and absolutely no problems running what so ever!
Thank you Thom for making me look closer and the crankcase vent system as that
was my problem from the start. I believe condensation in the line froze blocking
the venting and raising the pressure in the engine causing the fuel pump to
go wild!. It was 16* today when I flew it and all was good ! Now to build trust
in her again...lol
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru A-2200 175.0 hrs
N327CS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331167#331167
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Glad to hear you got it all straightened out and back on the flight line
:o)
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: ces308 <ces308@ldaco.com>
Sent: Tue, Feb 15, 2011 5:57 pm
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow
Hello all....
Well,I got the head back on yesterday and flew it todayfor .5 hrs an
d it
an perfect ! Ellery's catch can worked perfect and my fuel pressure sta
ys
etween 1.4 to 1.7 and absolutely no problems running what so ever!
Thank you Thom for making me look closer and the crankcase vent system as
that
as my problem from the start. I believe condensation in the line froze blo
cking
he venting and raising the pressure in the engine causing the fuel pump to
go
ild!. It was 16* today when I flew it and all was good ! Now to build trus
t in
er again...lol
hris ambrose
3X/Jabiru A-2200 175.0 hrs
327CS
ead this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331167#331167
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Hi Chris,
Glad its back working again. Good to hear your back in the air
Fly safe.
FrankD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331175#331175
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Chris, all, One trick to keep the oil vent line from freezing shut is to cut
a slit in the line about 1/3rd of the line diameter near where the line
attaches to the engine. In normal usage the slit won't leak as the structure
of the line keeps it closed. Should condensation freeze the line shut the
slit is near enough to the warmth of the engine there will be no ice there
and the excess pressure will be vented. Picked this one up from the LongEZ
drivers.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM, ces308 <ces308@ldaco.com> wrote:
>
> Hello all....
>
> Well,I got the head back on yesterday and flew it todayfor .5 hrs and
> it ran perfect ! Ellery's catch can worked perfect and my fuel pressure
> stays between 1.4 to 1.7 and absolutely no problems running what so ever!
>
> Thank you Thom for making me look closer and the crankcase vent system as
> that was my problem from the start. I believe condensation in the line froze
> blocking the venting and raising the pressure in the engine causing the fuel
> pump to go wild!. It was 16* today when I flew it and all was good ! Now to
> build trust in her again...lol
>
>
> chris ambrose
> M3X/Jabiru A-2200 175.0 hrs
> N327CS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331167#331167
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Kolb/Jabiru carb overflow |
Chris,
I am happy to have helped and more importantly, that you found and fixed the problem.
--------
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Kolb Slingshot SS-021
Jabiru 2200A #1574
Tennessee Prop 64x32
Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful.
Ann Landers
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331187#331187
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