Kolb-List Digest Archive

Fri 02/18/11


Total Messages Posted: 25



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:26 AM - Re: South Florida Flyers (zeprep251@aol.com)
     2. 07:10 AM - Fw: Plane crash- Ellery (william sullivan)
     3. 07:35 AM - Re: Fw: Plane crash- Ellery (John Hauck)
     4. 07:52 AM - Re: South Florida Flyers (Beauford)
     5. 07:54 AM - Re: South Florida Flyers (Rick Neilsen)
     6. 08:35 AM - Re: South Florida Flyers (zeprep251@aol.com)
     7. 08:52 AM - Re: South Florida Flyers (John Hauck)
     8. 08:54 AM - Re: Sun and Fun 2011 (209GS)
     9. 09:43 AM - Astro Pneumatics (Richard Girard)
    10. 10:05 AM - cheap alternative to SPOT (Thom Riddle)
    11. 01:14 PM - Re: Astro Pneumatics (Mike Welch)
    12. 03:39 PM - Re: Plane crash- Ellery (Kip)
    13. 06:10 PM - Re: South Florida Flyers (George Alexander)
    14. 06:27 PM -  N213 Wreck (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
    15. 06:51 PM - Re: N213 Wreck (Beauford)
    16. 07:06 PM - Re: N213 Wreck (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
    17. 07:08 PM - Re: N213 Wreck (Dana Hague)
    18. 07:24 PM - Re: N213 Wreck (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
    19. 07:35 PM - Re: kolb toe in (b young)
    20. 08:05 PM - Re: N213 Wreck (John Hauck)
    21. 08:40 PM - Re: N213 Wreck (209GS)
    22. 09:25 PM - toe in (b young)
    23. 09:50 PM - Re: Fw: Plane crash- Ellery (Ron @ KFHU)
    24. 10:00 PM - Re: N213 Wreck (Ron @ KFHU)
    25. 10:58 PM - Re: registering an experimental aircraft (Jason Omelchuck)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:26:49 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: South Florida Flyers
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Rick, I'm good for that on Sat,either place.Been off line until today (fri.A.M.)3 30-819-3000 verizon.Let me know G Aman -----Original Message----- From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 16, 2011 2:11 pm Subject: Kolb-List: South Florida Flyers Hey South Florida Flyers or any one that wants to fly in somewhere in Flori da some morning. I don't have my Kolb down here this winter but I'm renting a SportCruiser o ut of Charlotte county and I can meet most any where. How about it? Gary A, Buford, George A, and anyone else want to meet some where? I have a plane available (right now) this Saturday 2/19/ 11 AM we could meet at Arcadia or Wauchula. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:10:31 AM PST US
    From: william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net>
    Subject: Fw: Plane crash- Ellery
    - Ellery is okay. http://new.bangordailynews.com/2011/02/17/news/bangor/ultralight-plane-cras hes-in-stetson/# - ------------------------- ------------------------ Bi ll Sullivan ------------------------- ------------------------ Wi ndsor Locks, Ct. ------------------------- ------------------------ FS 447


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:35:22 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Fw: Plane crash- Ellery
    Ellery is okay. http://new.bangordailynews.com/2011/02/17/news/bangor/ultralight-plane-crashes-in-stetson/# Bill Sullivan Bill S/Kolbers: Glad Ellery is ok. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:52:08 AM PST US
    From: "Beauford " <beauford173@verizon.net>
    Subject: South Florida Flyers
    Brothers Neilsen and Aman: Have just consulted with Brother Alexander. we both would very much like to get together with you gents, but we are both caught up in other prior commitments which may, rpt, MAY prevent our attendance. We are both gonna try to make it. to Wauchula if possible. Will not know until tomorrow morning whether we can successfully escape and evade from the other commitments. How about the FOLLOWING Saturday? More to follow. weak, indefinite and undisciplined Beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL Do Not Archive If you forward this e-mail, please remove my name before sending it... I promise to do the same for you... Thanks... From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of zeprep251@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: South Florida Flyers Rick, I'm good for that on Sat,either place.Been off line until today (fri.A.M.)330-819-3000 verizon.Let me know G Aman -----Original Message----- From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 16, 2011 2:11 pm Subject: Kolb-List: South Florida Flyers Hey South Florida Flyers or any one that wants to fly in somewhere in Florida some morning. I don't have my Kolb down here this winter but I'm renting a SportCruiser out of Charlotte county and I can meet most any where. How about it? Gary A, Buford, George A, and anyone else want to meet some where? I have a plane available (right now) this Saturday 2/19/ 11 AM we could meet at Arcadia or Wauchula. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC ========== tor?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ========== tp://forums.matronics.com ========== bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ==========


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:54:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: South Florida Flyers
    From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com>
    Gary & Other South Florida Kolb Flyers I can't get a plane for tomorrow. How about next Saturday 2/26 Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 8:23 AM, <zeprep251@aol.com> wrote: > Rick, > I'm good for that on Sat,either place.Been off line until today (fri.A.M.) > 330-819-3000 verizon.Let me know > G Aman > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> > To: kolb-list <kolb-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Wed, Feb 16, 2011 2:11 pm > Subject: Kolb-List: South Florida Flyers > > Hey South Florida Flyers or any one that wants to fly in somewhere > in Florida some morning. > > I don't have my Kolb down here this winter but I'm renting a SportCruiser > out of Charlotte county and I can meet most any where. How about it? Gary A, > Buford, George A, and anyone else want to meet some where? I have a plane > available (right now) this Saturday 2/19/ 11 AM we could meet at Arcadia or > Wauchula. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > * > > > ========== > > tor?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > > ========== > > tp://forums.matronics.com > > ========== > > bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > ========== > > * > > * > > * > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 08:35:31 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: South Florida Flyers
    From: zeprep251@aol.com
    Rick, Just give me notice when and where.I could also keep a seat open for a pass enger I could pick up anywhere in between. Thanx G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> Sent: Fri, Feb 18, 2011 10:54 am Subject: Re: Kolb-List: South Florida Flyers Gary & Other South Florida Kolb Flyers I can't get a plane for tomorrow. How about next Saturday 2/26 Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Fri, Feb 18, 2011 at 8:23 AM, <zeprep251@aol.com> wrote: Rick, I'm good for that on Sat,either place.Been off line until today (fri.A.M.)3 30-819-3000 verizon.Let me know G Aman -----Original Message----- From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> Sent: Wed, Feb 16, 2011 2:11 pm Subject: Kolb-List: South Florida Flyers Hey South Florida Flyers or any one that wants to fly in somewhere in Flori da some morning. I don't have my Kolb down here this winter but I'm renting a SportCruiser o ut of Charlotte county and I can meet most any where. How about it? Gary A, Buford, George A, and anyone else want to meet some where? I have a plane available (right now) this Saturday 2/19/ 11 AM we could meet at Arcadia or Wauchula. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC tor?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:52:09 AM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: South Florida Flyers
    Just give me notice when and where.I could also keep a seat open for a passenger I could pick up anywhere in between. Thanx G.Aman Wish I could go with you all, but started an annual inspection on my MKIII yesterday. Will be a while until she is flying again. Still planning on flying to Lakeland about 28 Mar 2011, for S&F. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:54:29 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Sun and Fun 2011
    From: "209GS" <guebbing@aol.com>
    I'll be driving down for the week. Looking forward to meeting up with Bryan, and meeting any other Kolbers! -------- Gerry Uebbing Firestar II 503 b-box (not flying yet) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331421#331421


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:43:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Astro Pneumatics
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    About 4 years ago I bought an Astro Pneumatics PR36 pneumatic pop rivet gun. At the time I bought it specifically for pulling 3/16" stainless steel rivets. If memory serves it was about $70 at the time (I just came across the current price at Pegasus Racing and they're $77 now). Anyway, I was getting ready to make an extended nose piece for pulling some rivets that were exceptionally close to a flange when I discovered the other three nose pieces were missing from the bag I keep the riveter in. The next morning I did a search and found Astro Tools in Mount Airy, NC, got their service dept on the phone and asked them about replacement nose pieces. Maybe it was because it was Valentines Day, I don't know, but they sent me out a new set for free. They didn't even charge for shipping. So, if you're in the market for a pneumatic riveter, Astro Tool makes a good one, and they certainly have my thanks. -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:05:27 AM PST US
    Subject: cheap alternative to SPOT
    From: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr@gmail.com>
    NOT Kolb specific but may be of interest to Kolbers and other aviators. I'm not selling or pushing this just thought some might be interested, if they have an iPhone. If you are not interested, just skip on to the next or flame me, as you see fit. A couple days ago I downloaded a free App to my iPhone, called MotionX GPS Lite. It is the free version of their have-to-pay-for version. Yesterday I tried it out to see how the tracking and notification service went, not in an airplane but in my car. It works. The difference between the free version and the oh-so-expensive version ($3) is the number of tracks and waypoints you can save and a few other features. This is what was sent to my email when I told it to do so. Name: Track 001 Date: Feb 17, 2011 2:18 pm Map: (valid until Aug 16, 2011) View on Map Distance: 22.8 miles Elapsed Time: 39:03.1 Avg Speed: 35.0 mph Max Speed: 59.9 mph Avg Pace: 01' 43" per mile Min Altitude: 526 ft Max Altitude: 626 ft Start Time: 2011-02-17T19:18:30Z Start Location: Latitude: 42.985869 N Longitude: 78.828044 W End Location: Latitude: 42.985917 N Longitude: 78.828064 W The "View On Map" shown above was actually this link: http://maps.google.com/?t=p&z=15&ll=42.985869,-78.828044&q=http://share.gps.motionxlive.com/shr/x/kmz/1eabb671c39da7bbb21cbc14b09e6ca5 For more info, see: http://news.motionx.com/category/motionx-gps/ I don't think it is as functional as SPOT but it appears to do all I want it to do, so I may pop for the expensive $3 version! -------- Thom Riddle Buffalo, NY (9G0) Kolb Slingshot SS-021 Jabiru 2200A #1574 Tennessee Prop 64x32 Don't accept your dog's admiration as conclusive evidence that you are wonderful. Ann Landers Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331430#331430


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:14:37 PM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Astro Pneumatics
    Rick=2C Positive feedback about various companies is always good to hear. My Icom A200 comm radio rubber knob covers were old and dry rotted. I called the Icom Co. to order some more (3 pcs.). The guy said=2C send me y our address via email=2C and I'll ship them out to you. I did=2C and they did =2C for free. It didn't even cost me the postage. Great customer service is ALWAYS good advertisement!!! Thanks for the plug for Astro Pneumatics. We know where to go to get a good riveter! Mike Welch So=2C if you're in the market for a pneumatic riveter=2C Astro Tool makes a good one=2C and they certainly have my thanks. -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks=2C Homer GBYM


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:39:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Plane crash- Ellery
    From: "Kip" <klaurie@mindspring.com>
    Glad to hear that you are OK, Ellery. I like the comments in the article...good job... [Laughing] -------- 2000 Firestar II R503 DCDI VLS 750 2010 Waiex Jabiru 3300 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331454#331454


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:10:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: South Florida Flyers
    From: "George Alexander" <gtalexander@att.net>
    neilsenrm(at)gmail.com wrote: > Gary &Other South Florida Kolb Flyers > > I can't get a plane for tomorrow. How about next Saturday 2/26 > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > There is an "event" at Venice Municipal Airport (KVNC) on 26 Feb. They bill it as an Open House and Fly In. If I get any more info on it, I'll post. -------- George Alexander FS II R503 N709FS http://www.oh2fly.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331474#331474


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:27:10 PM PST US
    Subject: N213 Wreck
    From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
    Well Here is The skinny of me and N213 thursday afternoon I was out flying when all of a sudden I got a real violent Vibration enough to set the ELT off it shook the whole airplane this way and it was violent enough to she d both carbs then I was getting some glider time in, and only one small bo g covered with 3 feet of snow I was not... in a panic mode at all I ended up landing 200 yards short and in the woods the mk3 didnt make it but I got a bruised ankle and a small scratch on the back of my hand, I spent the day with the FAA and talking to the NTSB and insurance company and th e rest of the day taking what was left of the airplane apart and out of th e woods before the airplane pirates could find it The FAA guy said the propellor was the cause of this situation as far as he can see, one of the three Warp Drive Blades lost 2/3 of its blade. I never been fond of Warp drive Props and now I can never change my mind ab out what I thought of them, im Thinking this could have taken my life or worse someone elses life, The NTSB wants to take possession of this Prop Ellery N213 Down & Out


    Message 15


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    Time: 06:51:15 PM PST US
    From: "Beauford " <beauford173@verizon.net>
    Subject: N213 Wreck
    Brother Batchelder: Major congrats on handling what was obviously a tough situation. Glad you are OK. Further testimony to the inherent strength of the Kolb that she didn't come to pieces on you in the air after slinging most of a blade. some other light aircraft designs might have done so. beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL Do not archive If you forward this e-mail, please remove my name before sending it... I promise to do the same for you... Thanks... From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ellery Batchelder Jr Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 9:17 PM Subject: Kolb-List: N213 Wreck Well Here is The skinny of me and N213 thursday afternoon I was out flying when all of a sudden I got a real violent Vibration enough to set the ELT off it shook the whole airplane this way and it was violent enough to shed both carbs then I was getting some glider time in, and only one small bog covered with 3 feet of snow I was not... in a panic mode at all I ended up landing 200 yards short and in the woods the mk3 didnt make it but I got a bruised ankle and a small scratch on the back of my hand, I spent the day with the FAA and talking to the NTSB and insurance company and the rest of the day taking what was left of the airplane apart and out of the woods before the airplane pirates could find it The FAA guy said the propellor was the cause of this situation as far as he can see, one of the three Warp Drive Blades lost 2/3 of its blade. I never been fond of Warp drive Props and now I can never change my mind about what I thought of them, im Thinking this could have taken my life or worse someone elses life, The NTSB wants to take possession of this Prop Ellery N213 Down & Out


    Message 16


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    Time: 07:06:06 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: N213 Wreck
    From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
    I couldnt agree with you any more there are a lot of other flying things I wouldnt want to be in, in that situation Further testimony to the inherent strength of the Kolb that she didn =99t come to pieces on you in the air after slinging most of a blade some other light aircraft designs might have done so. Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Beauford <beauford173@verizon.net> Sent: Fri, Feb 18, 2011 9:49 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: N213 Wreck Brother Batchelder: Major congrats on handling what was obviously a tough situation Glad you are OK. Further testimony to the inherent strength of the Kolb that she didn =99t come to pieces on you in the air after slinging most of a blade some other light aircraft designs might have done so. beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL Do not archive If you forward this e-mail, please remove my name before sending it... I promise to do the same for you... Thanks... From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@ matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ellery Batchelder Jr Sent: Friday, February 18, 2011 9:17 PM Subject: Kolb-List: N213 Wreck Well Here is The skinny of me and N213 thursday afternoon I was out flying when all of a sudden I got a real violent Vibration enough to set the ELT off it shook the whole airplane this way and it was violent enough to she d both carbs then I was getting some glider time in, and only one small bo g covered with 3 feet of snow I was not... in a panic mode at all I ended up landing 200 yards short and in the woods the mk3 didnt make it but I got a bruised ankle and a small scratch on the back of my hand, I spent the day with the FAA and talking to the NTSB and insurance company and th e rest of the day taking what was left of the airplane apart and out of th e woods before the airplane pirates could find it The FAA guy said the propellor was the cause of this situation as far as he can see, one of the three Warp Drive Blades lost 2/3 of its blade. I never been fond of Warp drive Props and now I can never change my mind ab out what I thought of them, im Thinking this could have taken my life or worse someone elses life, The NTSB wants to take possession of this Prop Ellery N213 Down & Out http://www.matronic================ http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web generous nbsp; --> http://www.matronics.com/c ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== ===========


    Message 17


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    Time: 07:08:25 PM PST US
    From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: N213 Wreck
    Ellery, glad to year you're OK, sorry about the plane. Funny, I always had the impression that Warp Drives were the toughest out there? -Dana At 09:16 PM 2/18/2011, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote: > >Well Here is The skinny of me and N213 thursday afternoon I was out flying >when all of a sudden I got a real violent Vibration enough to set the ELT >off it shook the whole airplane this way and it was violent enough to shed >both carbs then I was getting some glider time in, and only one small bog >covered with 3 feet of snow I was not... in a panic mode at all I ended up >landing 200 yards short and in the woods the mk3 didnt make it but I got a >bruised ankle and a small scratch on the back of my hand, I spent the day >with the FAA and talking to the NTSB and insurance company and the rest of >the day taking what was left of the airplane apart and out of the woods >before the airplane pirates could find it >The FAA guy said the propellor was the cause of this situation as far as >he can see, one of the three Warp Drive Blades lost 2/3 of its blade. I >never been fond of Warp drive Props and now I can never change my mind >about what I thought of them, im Thinking this could have taken my life or >worse someone elses life, The NTSB wants to take possession of this Prop > -- Do YOU trust a government that won't obey it's OWN LAWS?


    Message 18


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    Time: 07:24:33 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: N213 Wreck
    From: Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>
    I thought they were the toughest out there but I just didn't like the ide a of how they pitch the blades and the design of the Prop Hub on this particular model Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net> Sent: Fri, Feb 18, 2011 10:05 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: N213 Wreck Ellery, glad to year you're OK, sorry about the plane. Funny, I always had the impression that Warp Drives were the toughest out there? -Dana At 09:16 PM 2/18/2011, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote: Well Here is The skinny of me and N213 thursday afternoon I was out flying when all of a sudden I got a real violent Vibration enough to set the ELT off it shook the whole airplane this way and it was violent enough to she d both carbs then I was getting some glider time in, and only one small bo g covered with 3 feet of snow I was not... in a panic mode at all I ended up landing 200 yards short and in the woods the mk3 didnt make it but I got a bruised ankle and a small scratch on the back of my hand, I spent the day with the FAA and talking to the NTSB and insurance company and th e rest of the day taking what was left of the airplane apart and out of th e woods before the airplane pirates could find it The FAA guy said the propellor was the cause of this situation as far as he can see, one of the three Warp Drive Blades lost 2/3 of its blade. I never been fond of Warp drive Props and now I can never change my mind ab out what I thought of them, im Thinking this could have taken my life or worse someone elses life, The NTSB wants to take possession of this Prop -- Do YOU trust a government that won't obey it's OWN LAWS? ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== ===========


    Message 19


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    Time: 07:35:55 PM PST US
    From: "b young" <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: kolb toe in
    ok kolbers.. my toe in numbers are in. this is quite long,,, and if you are not interested hit delete now. my starting numbers may not be as accurate as I would have liked them to be, my measuring technique improved with time. but not with standing this is what I have. the camber of both wheels was a neg 3 deg. this was due to the way the axels were bent at the factory, when the plane was hoisted in the air the axels were parallel to the ground, and when the weight of the aircraft was put on them, both wheels went neg, and when I climbed in with a passenger it went to 4 1/2 deg neg, the tops of the tires were angled in and the gear looked squatted down. recent post about toe in had me wondering. and I had quoted what was in the mkiii construction manual for "toe in". which was "neutral, and if you have to err, err on the side of toe out." a while back my son bought a very nice pipe bender. so I had him bring it over and we did some work on the gear. my original measurements which may not be as accurate as I would have liked,, best I knew how at the time, were: left wheel .70 deg toe in,,, right wheel 1.000 deg toe in total for both wheels of 1.70 with neg 3 deg camber each side. with the air pressure in the tires low (6 to 8 psi) it drove around what I thought was ok... if I pumped the air pressure up to 15 it would dart across the runway and made it hard to keep the white line between the tires. so for 600 hours I ran low tire pressure. I figured if I was going to put in a bit of positive camber, I could correct the toe in at the same time. so my son and I proceeded to bend steel. and by varying the bend angle, I could adjust for camber and toe in at the same time with one bend. what we ended up with was about 3/4 deg pos camber on the right and 1 deg pos camber on the other right (left), and the toe in was neutral on both sides,,, I was quite thrilled, until I took it out for a drive. from the neutral toe in as I started rolling for take off, the rolling resistance pulled the gear back till I was in a toe out condition. at that time the drag on the wheel increased and the gear flexed back till the tire started sliding, and the gear would spring forward.. it felt like I was riding a jack hammer. so back to the drawing board. a friend and I went out this afternoon and started bending some "toe in" back in the gear. what we ended up with was: left wheel .78 deg right wheel .70 deg both wheels 1.48 deg... my goal was 1.5 deg,, I came real close. it was less then my 1.7 I started with,,, I went for a test taxi and it would dart across the runway,, not as bad as before,,,, and the jack hammer was gone,, I figured if I lowered the tire pressure it would be ok... but we tried one more time. this time we only bent 1 gear, and I ended up with left .52 deg "toe in" and right stayed .7 deg "toe in" total for both wheels 1.22 deg,,, I increased the camber to 1.5 deg pos camber each side. with my friend sitting on the side each side would go to neutral camber. I went for another taxi test,,, the darting across the runway went from manageable to barely noticeable.. but there was a tiny bit of shake in the right side when I hit the brakes. I am quite certain that if I lower the air pressure it will go away. a test for another day. I ran out of daylight. from my experience and if I had computerized bending equipment, I would go with .625 deg toe in per side for 1.25 deg for the combined figure. or I would redesign the landing gear sockets to make them adjustable. for "toe in" then you could dial in exactly what you need. I will fly like this for a while.. but I may experiment again with the tubular steel, hardened to 48 rockwell. my gear is the solid tapered spring steel gear legs that the new kolb company sold for the mark iii. your mileage may vary. the aluminum gear (i think) would not be as flexable, so less toe in would be required. I took a few pictures if any one is interested.. I will have to get them off the camera, resized and posted. boyd young mkiii utah


    Message 20


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    Time: 08:05:29 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: N213 Wreck
    I thought they were the toughest out there but I just didn't like the idea of how they pitch the blades and the design of the Prop Hub on this particular model Ellery Batchelder Jr. Ellery B/Kolbers: What model hub and blades were you flying? Have you talked to Darryl at Warp Drive? First time I have heard of a blade seperating on a Warp Drive. Again, glad you are ok. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama


    Message 21


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    Time: 08:40:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: N213 Wreck
    From: "209GS" <guebbing@aol.com>
    I'm just glad to hear that your ok. Insurance can replace the bird so you can fly again. It does speak volumes on the safety of the design. One of the reasons I picked a Kolb. -------- Gerry Uebbing Firestar II 503 b-box (not flying yet) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331485#331485


    Message 22


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    Time: 09:25:30 PM PST US
    From: "b young" <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
    Subject: toe in
    kolbers,, this is how I calculated the angles for toe in on my mkiii initial figures were done by hanging a pipe under the fuselage on the centerline, then hanging a 5 ft pipe along the outside of the wheel, then measuring from each side to center,, I think this was prone to more error as the pipe along the wheels could vary in angle by whether the pipe was on the sidewall or on a raised letter. subsequent measurements were made after picking the brain of an a&p I made a piece of wood cut to the diameter of the wheel , and placing a piece of sheet metal to keep it centered on the rim. then added a side piece to help hold a carpenter square. then placed the wheel on a grease plate, (2 pieces of floor tile with a layer of grease between them. could use alum sheets) by putting a straight board, or I used a steel angle supported with sections of 2x8 to hold it at the correct height. and held against the back of both tires. then used a carpenters square to hold against the straight angle. and laid it on the wheel bracket. then holding the square against the back of the block measured the distance from the edge of the square to the front of the block. or more specific a spot on the block 5.725 inches from the back edge of the block. this measurement was chosen because of the ratio between the measurement and the angle. if the measurement from the square to the tick mark on the front (left) side of the block was .052 inches the angle is determined by moving the dismal 1 space to the right. or .52 deg (I learned this nice little association with the distance from the square and tick mark at 5.725 inches and angle quite by accident while playing with a spread sheet,) and it will only work while the angles are very small. the tangent of the angle = the measurement of the opposite side divided by the adjacent side. but we know the opposite and adjacent, we use the inverse tangent function. the inverse tangent function = the ratio .052/5.725 or TAN-1 power is .52 deg Toe In. I measured the distance using a caliper depth indicator, on the back of the block it measured 1.5 inches, or the width of the square, and the left side measured at the tick mark 1.552 for the difference of .052 inch. to measure the camber, place the wood block vertical, and hold the square on the floor and against the block going vertical. boyd young mkiii utah


    Message 23


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    Time: 09:50:26 PM PST US
    From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Fw: Plane crash- Ellery
    Great to know Ellery is alright. Ron @ KFHU --- william sullivan <williamtsullivan@att.net> wrote: ============ Ellery is okay. http://new.bangordailynews.com/2011/02/17/news/bangor/ultralight-plane-crashes-in-stetson/# Bill Sullivan Windsor Locks, Ct. FS 447 -- kugelair.com


    Message 24


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    Time: 10:00:35 PM PST US
    From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: N213 Wreck
    Great that you made it out. Well I guess I am not going to get a Warp drive either. I like that Tennessee prop anyway. Too bad they don't make a 3, 4 blader's. ---- Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com> wrote: ============ Well Here is The skinny of me and N213 thursday afternoon I was out flying when all of a sudden I got a real violent Vibration enough to set the ELT off it shook the whole airplane this way and it was violent enough to shed both carbs then I was getting some glider time in, and only one small bog covered with 3 feet of snow I was not... in a panic mode at all I ended up landing 200 yards short and in the woods the mk3 didnt make it but I got a bruised ankle and a small scratch on the back of my hand, I spent the day with the FAA and talking to the NTSB and insurance company and the rest of the day taking what was left of the airplane apart and out of the woods before the airplane pirates could find it The FAA guy said the propellor was the cause of this situation as far as he can see, one of the three Warp Drive Blades lost 2/3 of its blade. I never been fond of Warp drive Props and now I can never change my mind about what I thought of them, im Thinking this could have taken my life or worse someone elses life, The NTSB wants to take possession of this Prop Ellery N213 Down & Out -- kugelair.com


    Message 25


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    Time: 10:58:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: registering an experimental aircraft
    From: "Jason Omelchuck" <jason@trek-tech.com>
    Hello Tom, When you get around to contacting the FAA please update us on your success in getting the operating limitations changed. Especially if they actually remove the wording about flying over congested areas. Jason Thom Riddle wrote: > ..."Does anyone have a sample of their "OPERATOR LIMITATIONS" handbook ..." > > Mike, > > Don't confuse the personal operating handbook you make for your own use in the airplane with the "Operating Limitations" which is the Official FAA Document that must be carried in your aircraft at all times. This is the O part of the AROW documents that must be in the aircraft. > > Make sure that the official FAA Operating Limitations are the latest version which should be no more than 3-4 pages long. The one that the builder of my Slingshot received is 10-11 pages long and had the old "can't fly over congested areas" garbage, along with some other stupid things in it. I've been planning to get that replaced with the new version but have not gotten around to it yet. This spring I will call my FSDO and get that done so my flights which over congested areas won't be illegal. > > do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331491#331491




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