---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/22/11: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:07 PM - Re: Astro Pneumatics (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN) 2. 03:45 PM - Re: The winter fly-in experience (ropermike) 3. 04:56 PM - Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar? (Masqqqqqqq@aol.com) 4. 05:46 PM - Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar? (TheWanderingWench) 5. 06:15 PM - Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar? (Dana Hague) 6. 06:15 PM - Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar? (Dana Hague) 7. 06:25 PM - Extended riveter nose (Richard Girard) 8. 06:51 PM - Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar? (TheWanderingWench) 9. 07:54 PM - Re: The winter fly-in experience (Ralph B) 10. 09:16 PM - Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar? (slowaero) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:07:36 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Astro Pneumatics From: "Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN" << Positive feedback about various companies is always good to hear. >> Fellow Kolbers - I also have a similar story: A few years ago, I needed a new strobe head for my Kolb, from Kuntzleman Electronics. (my old one got dunked in salt water and died - remember THAT unpleasant story?!) Same thing - they simply sent me a new one, free of charge. (Thanks again, Dick!) Acts of good will like these are good for business - makes a customer happy to bring return business to them again. Dennis Kirby Mark-3, 912ul Sandia Park, NM do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:45:18 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: The winter fly-in experience From: "ropermike" I'd give my left one for a radio that sounds that good! -------- The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing!...Mike Hillger Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331871#331871 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:17 PM PST US From: Masqqqqqqq@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop for 447 on UltraStar? I have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop, and a 4 blade Ultra Prop. Both are ground adjustable, but I don't remember the pitch I used. First thing I had to do was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio. My overall preference is for the 2 blade prop. Because I had to fold and trailer the machine every time I used it, the 4 blade prop had to be removed every time, and the 2 blade could stay on. I never tried a 3 blade, and don't know if the wings can fold over it. Another thing I noticed was the 4 blade prop took a little longer to wind up, because of the extra weight. It was also a little noticeable in maneuvering, giving a gyroscopic lag to changing direction. But not much really. The four blade was a bit quieter than the 2 blade prop. I only flew it a couple times with the original Cuyuna before it coughed up a piston, so can't speak about the climb rate............but it's very good with the Rotax. I was getting about 800 fpm, until I gained some weight (me not the machine). I tried to sell my equipment about a year ago, and I guess I asked way too much, so it's still all available. Maybe you need an engine mount for that Rotax? In a message dated 2/19/2011 8:36:23 P.M. Central Standard Time, d-m-hague@comcast.net writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague My UltraStar currently has the original Cuyuna engine with the 50x30 Culver prop. I just acquired a 447, which I plan to install. Can anybody tell me what is a good prop for this combination? I believe (need to confirm) that it's a 2.58 ratio B box. I'm thinking 3 blades due to the limited diameter possible on the US, can't go 4 blades and fold the wings... perhaps even smaller than 50" to give better ground clearance? A friend gave me the engine in the interest of me being quieter than I am with the 447; a number of people have commented on how loud my plane is. Also for anybody who's flown the US with both engines, how much performance increase should I expect? I calculate about 350fpm better climb in theory. -Dana -- Art and technical perfection are not the same thing in cars, and hard-core car buffs often prefer art. Which is why they own so many tools. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:48 PM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop for 447 on UltraStar? I have a friend to whom I'm going to loan my 4-blade ultraprop for his Ultr astar, on which he's putting a 447. Reading this thread, I realize that he may not want to use it. He has to fold his wings to get in the hangar. Also, you write that: "the first thing I had to do was have the B box conve rted to a 2:1 ratio." I've been using the prop with a 2:58 ratio B gear box on a 503. Is this jus t too much for a 447? Is that why you had to reduce the ratio? Arty Trost Sandy, Oregon www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Masqqqqqqq@aol.com wrote: From: Masqqqqqqq@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop for 447 on UltraStar? =0A=0A =0A=0AI have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop, and a 4 =0Ablade Ul tra Prop.- Both are ground adjustable, but I don't remember the =0Apitch I used.=0A--- First thing I had to do was have =0Athe B box converted to a 2:1 ratio.=0A---- My overall preference is for =0Athe 2 blade prop.- Because I had to fold and trailer the machine every time =0AI use d it, the 4 blade prop had to be removed every time, and the 2 blade could =0Astay on.- I never tried a 3 blade, and don't know if the wings can fol d =0Aover it.=0A-- Another thing I noticed was the 4 blade =0Aprop took a little longer to wind up, because of the extra weight.- It was =0Aalso a little noticeable in maneuvering, giving a gyroscopic lag to changing =0Adirection.- But not much really.- The four blade was a bit quieter =0Athan the 2 blade prop.=0A-- I only flew it a couple times with the =0Aoriginal Cuyuna before it coughed up a piston, so can't speak about the climb =0Arate............but it's very good with the Rotax.- I was gettin g about =0A800- fpm, until I gained some weight (me not the =0Amachine). =0A---- I tried to sell-my =0Aequipment about a year ago, and I g uess I asked way too much, so it's still all =0Aavailable.- Maybe you nee d an engine mount for that =0ARotax?=0A--In a message dated 2/19/2011 8 :36:23 P.M. =0ACentral Standard Time, d-m-hague@comcast.net writes:=0A=0A-- > =0A Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague =0A My UltraStar currently has the original =0A Cuyuna engine with the 50x30 C ulver prop.- I just acquired a 447, =0A which I plan to install.- Can anybod y tell me what is a good prop for =0A this combination?- I believe (need to confir m) that it's a 2.58 ratio =0A B box.- I'm thinking 3 blades due to the limited d iameter possible on =0A the US, can't go 4 blades and fold the wings... perhaps ev en smaller than =0A 50" to give better ground clearance? A friend gave me the engine in the =0A interest of me being quieter than I am with the 447; a number of people =0A have commented on how loud my plane i s. Also for anybody who's flown =0A the US with both engines, how much perfor mance increase should I =0A expect?- I calculate about 350fpm better climb in =0A theory. -Dana -- Art and technical perfection are not the same =0A thing in cars, and hard- core car buffs often prefer art.- Which is =0A why they own so many =0Ae =0Ai es =0Aay =0A - - - - - -- - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS =0A - - - - -- - List Contribution Web Site =0Ap; - =0A - - - - - - - - - - - =0A =0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:13 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop for 447 on UltraStar? At 08:44 PM 2/22/2011, TheWanderingWench wrote: >I have a friend to whom I'm going to loan my 4-blade ultraprop for his >Ultrastar, on which he's putting a 447. Reading this thread, I realize >that he may not want to use it. He has to fold his wings to get in the hangar. > >Also, you write that: "the first thing I had to do was have the B box >converted to a 2:1 ratio." >I've been using the prop with a 2:58 ratio B gear box on a 503. Is this >just too much for a 447? Is that why you had to reduce the ratio? Arty, what diameter is your Ultraprop? The US is limited to 50", which isn't all that big. If your 503 was turning it with a 2.58 box it would probably be too much for a 447. I would think a 4 blade prop on a 447 would have to set to a really flat pitch to spin up to speed with a 2:1 box; GSC and WD recommend a 2 blade prop for that ratio. How did the Ultraprop work for you? I don't hear real good things about them... since you have it to loan to your friend I assume you replaced it with something else? -Dana -- "You sure it's broken? Let me make sure..." ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:13 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop for 447 on UltraStar? At 07:47 PM 2/22/2011, Masqqqqqqq@aol.com wrote: >I have used both a 2 blade Precision Prop, and a 4 blade Ultra Prop. Both >are ground adjustable, but I don't remember the pitch I used. > First thing I had to do was have the B box converted to a 2:1 ratio. That's what I though I needed to do, but both the GSC and WD people say their 3 blade is OK with the 2.58, though I'd need a 2 blade if I regeared the box to 2:1.. > My overall preference is for the 2 blade prop. Because I had to > fold and trailer the machine every time I used it, the 4 blade prop had > to be removed every time, and the 2 blade could stay on. I never tried a > 3 blade, and don't know if the wings can fold over it. The wings will clear a 3 but not a 4, so the 4 is out. Were both of yours 50" diameter? > I only flew it a couple times with the original Cuyuna before it > coughed up a piston, so can't speak about the climb rate............but > it's very good with the Rotax. I was getting about 800 fpm, until I > gained some weight (me not the machine). That's good to hear... I think mine is around 500 with the Cuyuna. > I tried to sell my equipment about a year ago, and I guess I asked > way too much, so it's still all available. Maybe you need an engine > mount for that Rotax? Maybe... what does the Rotax mount look like? I was thinking of an adapter plate for the Cuyuna mount, but that will put the prop lower than the original, so less ground clearance. Were you trying to sell the whole plane or just bits and pieces? -Dana -- "You sure it's broken? Let me make sure..." ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Extended riveter nose From: Richard Girard Three problems with the horizontal stabilizer brackets on the Mk IIIX I'm working on. The first was that the brackets were mounted a bit more than 3/8" off to each other (about a degree of incidence). Second it is a Mk IIIC to X conversion and when the wider X brackets were mounted further toward the center of the boom tube it spread the front of the stabilizers such that the hinges were binding so much that you could feel them pop over center. Surely not a way to prolong the life of the elevator hinges. Third, the builder drilled the mounting holes so close to the flanges of the bracket it was impossible to get the rivet square with the bracket even after I solved problem 2 by cutting down the flanges of the brackets and moving the top hole inboard 3/8". First I made an extended nose for my air riveter. I won't bore you with the details, but it could just as easily be done with a piece of 3/8" X .125 tubing (yes, Spruce has that size) 3/4" of an inch long and holding it in place, or getting an extra nose piece and use some JB Weld to stick it on. I elected to do it the hard way, although I did cheat and use a loose 3/8-26 thread to approximate a 10mm X 1.0 (.393-25.4 in inches) Then I had to make a hybrid rivet to accommodate the longer nose. McMaster Carr carries 3/16" stainless steel rivets in grip lengths out to 1.00 inch. At 75 cents each by the time you pay shipping this trick gets expensive real quick, but I only needed 14 and they come in boxes of 10 so it was tolerable. As you can see from the picture I took the mandrel from a 1.00" grip rivet and put it in a 1/8-1/4" grip rivet. By the time it was all said and done each hybrid rivet cost about $1.10 but it worked, the rivets are tight and all three problems are solved. Rick Girard -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:29 PM PST US From: TheWanderingWench Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop for 447 on UltraStar? I've gotten lots of flak for using an Ultraprop - folks are constantly tell ing me that it is very inefficient and a poor choice. Since I've never flow n my Drifter with another prop, I have no comparison as to efficiency facto rs. I stuck with the Ultraprop because of its extreme hardiness, which I've never seen matched in another prop. I've had small screws go through it, a nd it just kept flying. When it gets dinged, the cracks never travel. It's very easy to repair in the field. And since I do a lot of rough field out-i n-the-middle-of-nowhere landings, that's extremely important to me. I'm not giving up on the ultraprop; I've just put my Drifter in storage for a while, since I bought a Talon. Since I won't be using the Drifter, I fig ured I could loan the Ultraprop to a friend. But I'll have to measure it, s ince it very well may be longer than the 50" limit you said an Ultrastar ca n take. Arty Trost Sandy, Oregon www.LessonsFromTheEdge.com/uladventure2009.htm =0A =0A"Life's a daring adventure or nothing" =0A Helen Keller =0A =0A"I refuse to tip toe through life just to arrive safely at death." --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Dana Hague wrote: From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: prop for 447 on UltraStar? =0AAt 08:44 PM 2/22/2011, TheWanderingWench wrote: =0AI have a friend to whom I'm going=0Ato loan my 4-blade ultraprop for his Ultrastar, on which he's putting a=0A447. Reading this thread, I realize t hat he may not want to use it. He=0Ahas to fold his wings to get in the han gar. =0AAlso, you write that: "the first thing I had to do was have the B=0Abox converted to a 2:1 ratio." =0AI've been using the prop with a 2:58 ratio B gear box on a 503. Is this =0Ajust too much for a 447? Is that why you had to reduce the=0Aratio? =0AArty, what diameter is your Ultraprop?- The US is limited to=0A50", wh ich isn't all that big.- If your 503 was turning it with=0Aa 2.58 box it would probably be too much for a 447. =0AI would think a 4 blade prop on a 447 would have to set to a really flat =0Apitch to spin up to speed with a 2:1 box; GSC and WD recommend a 2 blade =0Aprop for that ratio. =0AHow did the Ultraprop work for you?- I don't hear real good things=0Aa bout them... since you have it to loan to your friend I assume you=0Areplac ed it with something else? =0A-Dana =0A--=0A"You sure it's broken?- Let me make sure..."=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:43 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: The winter fly-in experience From: "Ralph B" ropermike > I'd give my left one for a radio that sounds that good! It's a Microair 760 panel mount radio. I think it sounds better recorded in the camera because the cabin noise is drastically reduced when it bypasses the headset sending the audio signal directly to it. My ears hear the cabin noise and it doesn't sound as clear when listening through the headset, but then my hearing is getting worse as time passes on. The patch cords are shielded which helps cutting out engine noise too. I have to say that I was impressed myself when I played the video back and could hear everything recorded in the cockpit except a few transmissions that were very noisy like that guy that tried to contact me when taking off from Gilligans. Ralph -------- Ralph B Original Firestar 447 N91493 E-AB 1000 hours 24 years flying it Kolbra 912UL N20386 3 years flying it 150 hrs Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331908#331908 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: prop for 447 on UltraStar? From: "slowaero" I this one had a three blade IVO. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=331914#331914 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/copy_of_daves_thumb2_167.jpg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.