Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:25 PM - N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (Frankd)
2. 05:10 PM - Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (Ralph B)
3. 06:25 PM - Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (Arksey@aol.com)
4. 06:37 PM - Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (Richard Girard)
5. 06:51 PM - Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (Frankd)
6. 06:56 PM - Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (ces308)
7. 07:17 PM - Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (b young)
8. 08:37 PM - Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D (ces308)
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| Subject: | N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
Had my first flight in my M3X today. For those who remember that day here is my
experience.
Wind was calm and we were waiting for some low clouds (Fog) to burn off at Hollister,
Ca. Decided to do some high speed taxi tests to help run-in the brakes
and had three runs up to 35-40mph with good control. On the forth run added Just
a little more power to see if I could get into ground effect but was fully
ready to fly.. Sure enough, off she went up to about 20feet. Started to lower
the nose to put it back on the runway but found I got a rather sudden few oscillations
in pitch as I tried to get used to the elevator. Put in full power
to gain altitude and went up. Found I had to hold LOTS of forward stick to
keep it above 60 and continued to climb. Jabiru 2200 Engine ran fine.
Went to 1500 feet directly over the runway and varied the engine RPM. VERY heavy
forward stick needed to maintain straight and level even with cruise RPMs
of 2500. CHT showed 380 Deg F so decided to land.
Eased back to 2000 RPM and started a decent. Still needed forward stick about
3inches forward from where the elevator was level with the Horz Stab. Stabilized
any oscillations. Set up an approach but it seemed high about way down
the runway and so I did a circuit and lined up at the start of the runway. Eased
off to about 1500 rpm, stick still pushing forward, 60 MPH, nice decent
rate, came into ground effect and had a good landing about 1/3 down the runway.
A few things:-
1/ Thank God for 6000 foot runways, my plane is WAY out of trim. And having LOTS
of runway allowed me to not over control at a critical time.
2/ Take some time in a flying kolb with a pilot if you can, I flew in a MarkIII
the day before and it really helped (Thanks ChrisB).
3/ FLY the plane. In calm no-wind conditions for the first flight.
WHY SO MUCH DOWN ELEVATOR NEEDED?
a/ During my building I got an update to the plans that set the LE of the horizontal
Stab just above centerline of the boom tube. The original plans called for
the LE to be level with the TOP of the Boom tube.
B/ I always thought my wing incidence compared to the Horizontal Stab. was very
high so will recheck the wing root attachment to make sure I did not miscalculate
and drill incorrectly.
Does anyone have data about the angles of incidence between the Wing bottom, the
Horzontal Stab and the engine thrust line for a MK3?
B/ My Weight and Balance may be off but I triple checked it Time to do again.
I calculated my CG was 16inches from the wing LE Mid range.
Its good to have flown but better to have survived!
Will post Pics and video later.
FrankD
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=333901#333901
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| Subject: | Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
Frank, when you carry a passenger you won't need to hold forward stick.
Do you have a trim tab on the elevator?
If not, you need one. My Kolbra has a ground adjustable tab
with a motorized bungee trim on the stick. I adjust the elevator tab
for a heavy passenger and when I fly solo, I need more forward stick,
so the bungee trim pulls the stick forward with the flick of a switch.
If you plan to do more solo flying, you could adjust the elevator tab for
that and I could too, but the motorized bungee makes it easier. The
elevator trim tab is a course adjustment, and the bungee trim is a fine
adjustment.
Ralph
--------
Ralph B
Original Firestar 447
N91493 E-AB
1000 hours
24 years flying it
Kolbra 912UL
N20386
3 years flying it
150 hrs
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| Subject: | Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
good for you...sounds like you did the correct thing on your lst
flight...keep us posted on your future flights...you did a good job....safe
flying...jim swan
Jim Swan Kolb Firestar ll, 503 Rotax , 6147 Wilcox Rd., Eaton Rapids, Mi
48827 ph 517-663-8488 GPS GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581 W084deg 44.825
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
Attached is a picture of the tail incidence on a Mk IIIX I have in the shop
right now. I think it's fair to say the incidence of the HS on your airplan
e
is a couple of degrees lower (based on TLAR estimate that about .40" change
at the leading edge is one degree).
One thing you might look at before dealing with stabilizers is how your
flaps and ailerons are rigged. If they have a bit of reflex to them you wil
l
get the same effect, i.e. stick forward required for level flight. If you
have them rigged so that the bottom of the wing and the bottom of the flaps
and ailerons are parallel, you could try a turn or two on the control rods
to crank in a bit of camber. A little won't effect drag very much and might
solve your problem.
If you find you need to move the brackets on the boom, I have some boom
tubing that Travis was generous enough to send along to me at no charge so
I
could make patch plates for the airplane pictured (a Mark IIIC to X
conversion). Least I can do is send along a piece if you want to make cover
plates to hide the extra holes.
Rick Girard
On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Frankd <frankd@foundrynet.com> wrote:
>
> Had my first flight in my M3X today. For those who remember that day here
> is my experience.
> Wind was calm and we were waiting for some low clouds (Fog) to burn off a
t
> Hollister, Ca. Decided to do some high speed taxi tests to help run-in th
e
> brakes and had three runs up to 35-40mph with good control. On the forth
> run added =93Just a little more power=94 to see if I could get into groun
d
> effect but was fully ready to fly.. Sure enough, off she went up to about
> 20feet. Started to lower the nose to put it back on the runway but found
I
> got a rather sudden few oscillations in pitch as I tried to get used to t
he
> elevator. Put in full power to gain altitude and went =93up=94. Found
I had
> to hold =93LOTS=94 of forward stick to keep it above 60 and continued to
climb.
> Jabiru 2200 Engine ran fine.
> Went to 1500 feet directly over the runway and varied the engine RPM. VE
RY
> heavy forward stick needed to maintain straight and level even with cruis
e
> RPM=92s of 2500. CHT showed 380 Deg F so decided to land.
> Eased back to 2000 RPM and started a decent. Still needed forward stick
> about 3inches forward from where the elevator was level with the Horz Sta
b.
> Stabilized any oscillations. Set up an approach but it seemed high ab
out
> =BD way down the runway and so I did a circuit and lined up at the start
of
> the runway. Eased off to about 1500 rpm, stick still pushing forward, 6
0
> MPH, nice decent rate, came into ground effect and had a good landing ab
out
> 1/3 down the runway.
> A few things:-
> 1/ Thank God for 6000 foot runways, my plane is WAY out of trim. And havi
ng
> LOTS of runway allowed me to not over control at a critical time.
> 2/ Take some time in a flying kolb with a pilot if you can, I flew in a
> MarkIII the day before and it really helped (Thanks ChrisB).
> 3/ FLY the plane. In calm no-wind conditions for the first flight.
>
> WHY SO MUCH DOWN ELEVATOR NEEDED?
> a/ During my building I got an update to the plans that set the LE of the
> horizontal Stab just above centerline of the boom tube. The original plan
s
> called for the LE to be level with the TOP of the Boom tube.
> B/ I always thought my wing incidence compared to the Horizontal Stab. wa
s
> very high so will recheck the wing root attachment to make sure I did not
> miscalculate and drill incorrectly.
>
> Does anyone have data about the angles of incidence between the Wing
> bottom, the Horzontal Stab and the engine thrust line for a MK3?
>
> B/ My Weight and Balance may be off but I triple checked it ' Time to d
o
> again. I calculated my CG was 16inches from the wing LE ' Mid range.
>
> Its good to have flown but better to have survived!
> Will post Pics and video later.
> FrankD
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=333901#333901
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/kolb_2_462.jpg
>
>
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>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
Hi Ralph,
thanks for this info. I do think that this is WAY out of trim and I should have
to use back pressure in cruise flight not Fwd pressure. It was nowhere near
neutral or close to normal control.
I'm going to call Travis tomorrow and see what they say about my set-up.
I believe I should have about 7deg positive wing incidence (LE higher) in level
flight and the elevator and horizontal Stabilizer should be level at that time
(or slightly Neg, LE lower than TE)
I also believe that the ideal engine thrust line is a few degrees down towards
the nose, relative to level flight stance.
Would like feedback on others set-ups.
Tkx
FrankD
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| Subject: | Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
Hi Frank !
Great job ! How's it feel to be a test pilot ! Now analyzing everything that
just happened ! One thing at a time now... and the plane looks great ! Isn't
that Jaber sweet !
Keep us posted,
chris ambrose
M3X/Jabiru A-2200
N327CS
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| Subject: | Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
WHY SO MUCH DOWN ELEVATOR NEEDED?
a/ During my building I got an update to the plans that set the LE of
the horizontal Stab just above centerline of the boom tube. The original
plans called for the LE to be level with the TOP of the Boom tube.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
in a super cub the trim handle raises and lowers the leading edge of the
stabilizer,, if you lower the stabilizer leading edge it is adding
more up trim.
you can change the flying position of the plane by changing the
incidence of the wing,,,, if you increase the incidence of he wing,
you need to increase the incidence of the stabilizer... and doing this
would make the plane fly nose down.
if you need to push hard to fly level,,, the fix should be to raise the
leading edge of the stabilizer..
boyd young
mkiii
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| Subject: | Re: N1014S MarkIII Xtra first flight - Frank D |
Boyd,
Yours sounds like mine....seee picture...
chris ambrose
M3X/Jab
N327CS
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