---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/13/11: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:02 AM - Re: High Temperature Silicone (Pat Ladd) 2. 04:25 AM - Re: High Temperature Silicone (Dana Hague) 3. 04:48 AM - insurance (Pat Ladd) 4. 04:51 AM - insurance 2 (Pat Ladd) 5. 06:34 AM - Re: High Temperature Silicone (Pat Ladd) 6. 07:00 AM - Re: High Temperature Silicone (Roger Lee) 7. 10:38 AM - trying a new prop (Jimmy Young) 8. 11:16 AM - Trees = gusts and eddies (Dennis Thate) 9. 11:17 AM - Re: Downwind landing tips? (Dennis Thate) 10. 12:27 PM - Re: trying a new prop (chris davis) 11. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: High Temperature Silicone (John Hauck) 12. 01:54 PM - Re: trying a new prop (Richard Girard) 13. 02:00 PM - Re: trying a new prop (Richard Girard) 14. 02:38 PM - Re: 2nd Flight! (Dennis Thate) 15. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (Rick Neilsen) 16. 06:54 PM - Re: 2nd Flight! (Richard Pike) 17. 06:54 PM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 18. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (b young) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:07 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Temperature Silicone I'm looking for a High Temperature Silicone to use on my Rotax exhaust springs>> Hi Dennis, I am intrigued by this. What is the silicone supposed to do?. As far as I am aware the springs do nothing but hold the two sections of the exhaust tightly together at the ball joint. When I was running a 503 i had the springs on, wired of course to stop them falling through the prop. When they got rusty I painted them with black Radiator paint or whatever heat resistant paint I had about, or replaced them. They are so cheap it was hardly worth the bother. What else do they do that makes it worthwhile taking extra trouble? Intrigued Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:25:16 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Temperature Silicone Pat, the silicone damps the vibration. Without it, the springs vibrate all the time, resulting in much shorter life due to metal fatigue and wear at the ends. -Dana At 06:59 AM 4/13/2011, Pat Ladd wrote: > >I'm looking for a High Temperature Silicone to use on my Rotax exhaust >springs>> > >Hi Dennis, >I am intrigued by this. What is the silicone supposed to do?. As far as I >am aware the springs do nothing but hold the two sections of the exhaust >tightly together at the ball joint. >When I was running a 503 i had the springs on, wired of course to stop >them falling through the prop. When they got rusty I painted them with >black Radiator paint or whatever heat resistant paint I had about, or >replaced them. They are so cheap it was hardly worth the bother. >What else do they do that makes it worthwhile taking extra trouble? -- Smallpox has been largely destroyed - should the virus be given endanged species status? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:35 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: insurance hi, My flying insurance has just come up for renewal and with the detail on my desk I thought a comparison of charges etc.,. might be interesting. Incidentally 3rd Party Ins. is compulsory here. Insurance is for me as named pilot plus any accredited test pilot. Hull Ins. Value =A320,000 Transit and Ground risk (=A3500 excess on each claim) Cost =A3250 Liability.for Bodily injury/property damage up to =A31 million liability to Passengers/Personal articles up to =A31 million Cost =A3240 Total cost including Tax and Admin charges =A3529.40. For what it is worth Pat ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:56 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Kolb-List: insurance 2 Whoops, finger trouble Liability in respect to injury to passengers is NOT =A31million IT is =A3125,000. each accident Sorry about that. Pat ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:20 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: High Temperature Silicone the silicone damps the vibration>> hi . thanks for the info. I dont know what quantity of of the silicone you have to buy but for the cost of replacing the springs every couple of years I wouldn`t have thought it was worth while. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:14 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: High Temperature Silicone From: "Roger Lee" You can use, and many do, the Permatex Copper or Black silicone. They are rated for 600F-700F which is more than enough. You can buy these at most hardware or automotive stores. There are two ways to apply this and it strictly depends on you. One is to lay a bead 1/2" wide and a 1/4" tall down each spring and work it into the coils. If you don't apply a big enough bead and it is thin and narrow it will not function as properly because it has no body and strength. The second accepted method is to actually fill the spring with the silicone. I prefer the beed. This in fact does help with the pulsation coming from the exhaust system which causes premature spring failure and excessive wear on the springs where it loops connects over the loop. The silicone is not a replacement for safety wiring the springs, but in addition to. This is in the Rotax manual, there was an SB out on it many years ago and is a standard practice. -------- Roger Lee Tucson, Az. Light Sport Repairman - Maintenance Rated Rotax Repair Center Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST Cell 520-349-7056 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336821#336821 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:38:33 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: trying a new prop From: "Jimmy Young" Gang, I am trying out a Warp Drive 3 - blade 64" prop on my Firestar. I flew it about 20 minutes this morning in "perfect" air ( 60 deg, low humidity, calm). My main reason for getting the Warp is I wanted a more durable prop. I'm going to fly a few more times before I make an evaluation compared to the 66" 2 - blade Powerfin, but I will say the first flight #'s were pretty good. The prop was very smooth and had a more immediate response to the throttle than the 2 - blade. My only concern is the HKS is similar to the Rotax "B" box in that it calls for a max. 3000 kg moment of inertia on the prop. I do not know what the MOI is for this prop and am having trouble finding anyone who does. I am aware of the measuring proceedure available from Rotax and CPS, just would like to find the info first rather than go through the exercise. Does anyone have any MOI data on their 3 - blade Warp Drive props? -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336833#336833 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_0153_243.jpg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:28 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Trees = gusts and eddies From: "Dennis Thate" CLR Prop I just put in a new 800 strip this last fall for my Firestar II. I would be just as, if not more concerned about gusts and eddies from your close proximity to the row of trees during quartering crosswind landings and takeoff's. Main thing... maintain your airspeed ! Fly Safe -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336841#336841 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:41 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Downwind landing tips? From: "Dennis Thate" CLR Prop I just put in a new 800 strip this last fall for my Firestar II. I would be just as, if not more concerned about gusts and eddies from your close proximity to the row of trees during quartering crosswind landings and takeoff's. Main thing... maintain your airspeed ! Fly Safe -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336842#336842 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:03 PM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trying a new prop Whynot ask Warp Drive?Chris Davis KXP 503 492 hrs Glider Pilot Disabled from crash building Firefly ----- Original Message ---- From: Jimmy Young Sent: Wed, April 13, 2011 1:36:08 PM Subject: Kolb-List: trying a new prop Gang, I am trying out a Warp Drive 3 - blade 64" prop on my Firestar. I flew it about 20 minutes this morning in "perfect" air ( 60 deg, low humidity, calm). My main reason for getting the Warp is I wanted a more durable prop. I'm going to fly a few more times before I make an evaluation compared to the 66" 2 - blade Powerfin, but I will say the first flight #'s were pretty good. The prop was very smooth and had a more immediate response to the throttle than the 2 - blade. My only concern is the HKS is similar to the Rotax "B" box in that it calls for a max. 3000 kg moment of inertia on the prop. I do not know what the MOI is for this prop and am having trouble finding anyone who does. I am aware of the measuring proceedure available from Rotax and CPS, just would like to find the info first rather than go through the exercise. Does anyone have any MOI data on their 3 - blade Warp Drive props? -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336833#336833 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_0153_243.jpg ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:08 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: High Temperature Silicone The silicone is not a replacement for safety wiring the springs, but in addition to. -------- Roger Lee Roger L/Gang: Not to be argumentive, but I haven't used safety wire on exhaust springs in many years. The silicone seal (ordinary/normal) works great and captures hooks and coils should they break, preventing them from going through the prop on our pusher Kolbs. Springs are heat treated and very hard. They will put a ding in a warp drive prop that will have to be repaired. If the hooks/loops and coils are sealed up with silicone seal, the broken parts will stay in place and not through your prop. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:11 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trying a new prop From: Richard Girard >From the inertia tests I did on a number of props in 2007: Warp Drive 66" 3 blade CNC hub Wt. 9 lb. 12 oz. Average time to 30 oscillations, 180 seconds *Inertia* 5200 Kg cm^2 I should add that this prop had bare, untapered blades. Can you use it as a reference for yours, probably, since it's unlikely that you're going to get to 3000 or under. Tapering will help, stainless steel blade guards will hurt. You might ask Green Sky, or whoever distributes this engine if they've come around to allowing Mobil 1 synthetic with gearbox additives. When Flight Designs was importing the engine they always told me absolutely not, just plain Mobil 1 5W-30. The only other thing you can do is set the idle RPM up a bit, say 2200 RPM minimum and run a magnet through your oil at each change. It you see iron shards it can only come from one place in this engine, the gears. Rick Girard On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Jimmy Young wrote: > > Gang, > > I am trying out a Warp Drive 3 - blade 64" prop on my Firestar. I flew it > about 20 minutes this morning in "perfect" air ( 60 deg, low humidity, > calm). My main reason for getting the Warp is I wanted a more durable prop. > > I'm going to fly a few more times before I make an evaluation compared to > the 66" 2 - blade Powerfin, but I will say the first flight #'s were pretty > good. The prop was very smooth and had a more immediate response to the > throttle than the 2 - blade. > > My only concern is the HKS is similar to the Rotax "B" box in that it calls > for a max. 3000 kg moment of inertia on the prop. I do not know what the MOI > is for this prop and am having trouble finding anyone who does. I am aware > of the measuring proceedure available from Rotax and CPS, just would like to > find the info first rather than go through the exercise. Does anyone have > any MOI data on their 3 - blade Warp Drive props? > > -------- > Jimmy Young > Missouri City, TX > Kolb FS II/HKS 700 > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336833#336833 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_0153_243.jpg > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: trying a new prop From: Richard Girard Jimmy, I didn't see the picture, sorry. Untapered blades and stainless steel guards, yeah, you're going to be pushing the 6000 kg cm^2 limit pretty hard. I think you can forget about getting anywhere near 3000. Rick On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > From the inertia tests I did on a number of props in 2007: > > Warp Drive 66" 3 blade CNC hub > Wt. 9 lb. 12 oz. > Average time to 30 oscillations, 180 seconds > *Inertia* 5200 Kg cm^2 > > I should add that this prop had bare, untapered blades. Can you use it as a > reference for yours, probably, since it's unlikely that you're going to get > to 3000 or under. Tapering will help, stainless steel blade guards will > hurt. You might ask Green Sky, or whoever distributes this engine if they've > come around to allowing Mobil 1 synthetic with gearbox additives. When > Flight Designs was importing the engine they always told me absolutely not, > just plain Mobil 1 5W-30. The only other thing you can do is set the idle > RPM up a bit, say 2200 RPM minimum and run a magnet through your oil at each > change. It you see iron shards it can only come from one place in this > engine, the gears. > > Rick Girard > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:36 PM, Jimmy Young wrote: > >> >> Gang, >> >> I am trying out a Warp Drive 3 - blade 64" prop on my Firestar. I flew it >> about 20 minutes this morning in "perfect" air ( 60 deg, low humidity, >> calm). My main reason for getting the Warp is I wanted a more durable prop. >> >> I'm going to fly a few more times before I make an evaluation compared to >> the 66" 2 - blade Powerfin, but I will say the first flight #'s were pretty >> good. The prop was very smooth and had a more immediate response to the >> throttle than the 2 - blade. >> >> My only concern is the HKS is similar to the Rotax "B" box in that it >> calls for a max. 3000 kg moment of inertia on the prop. I do not know what >> the MOI is for this prop and am having trouble finding anyone who does. I am >> aware of the measuring proceedure available from Rotax and CPS, just would >> like to find the info first rather than go through the exercise. Does anyone >> have any MOI data on their 3 - blade Warp Drive props? >> >> -------- >> Jimmy Young >> Missouri City, TX >> Kolb FS II/HKS 700 >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336833#336833 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/100_0153_243.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! From: "Dennis Thate" Just curious why such a concern on this forum about bending landing gear on Kolbs. Is it a poor design ? ..or simply poor pilot technique.... stalling to high, versus the less stressful wheel landings. ? ? -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336864#336864 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:19 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! From: Rick Neilsen Dennis It is defiantly poor pilot technique that causes bent landing gear. The worst offenders are GA pilots that used to the heavy iron that take time to slow down. Kolbs are very light high drag airplanes. I was a GA pilot and yes I have the bent gear to prove it. They slow down below stall speed very quickly. You need to fly them to within a few inches of the ground before you flare. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:35 PM, Dennis Thate wrote: > > Just curious why such a concern on this forum about bending landing gear on > Kolbs. Is it a poor design ? ..or simply poor pilot technique.... stalling > to high, versus the less stressful wheel landings. ? ? > > -------- > Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist > invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern > > > Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336864#336864 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:31 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! From: "Richard Pike" capt_riney(at)yahoo.com wrote: > > > Next step is to install a trim tab on the rudder and tweak the left flap down a hair to compensate for slight left wing low (I fly from the left seat). Any suggestions as to how big the trim tab should be? Also I need to get book binding tape from Travis to gap seal the flaps and ailerons. Stall speed clean was about 42 mph. > > Mark Rinehart > N68MR > > Sent from my iPad Make yourself an adjustable trim tab, that way you won't have to be annoyed when carrying a passenger because it is no longer in trim. http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg6.htm With VG's you ought to be able to get that stall down below 30. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336890#336890 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:31 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! From: Ellery Batchelder Jr It is for sure Poor Pilot technique The Kolb airplanes are well built, Yo u can bend the Landing gear on about any airplane stalling it to high Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Dennis Thate Sent: Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:35 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! Just curious why such a concern on this forum about bending landing gear on olbs. Is it a poor design ? ..or simply poor pilot technique.... stalling to igh, versus the less stressful wheel landings. ? ? -------- oth optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist inve nts he airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern aith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain ead this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336864#336864 ======================== =========== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:40 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! tweak the left flap down a hair to compensate for slight left wing low Any suggestions as to how big the trim tab should be? > Mark Rinehart >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much pressure is required on the stick? boyd young mkiii ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.