---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/15/11: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:24 AM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (Dana Hague) 2. 07:01 AM - Re: Landing Light...How do you aim them.. (Richard Pike) 3. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (Rick Neilsen) 4. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (b young) 5. 08:04 AM - Re: Cristal's Merry Dawn is finally airborne again (NeilsenRM@gmail.com) 6. 08:24 AM - Re: Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (NeilsenRM@gmail.com) 7. 11:29 AM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (Richard Girard) 8. 11:31 AM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (Mike Welch) 9. 01:50 PM - register plane (b young) 10. 02:34 PM - Re: register plane (Herb) 11. 04:28 PM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (Gregor Taylor) 12. 08:50 PM - Re: Re: 2nd Flight! (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:24:02 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! At 10:59 PM 4/14/2011, Larry Cottrell wrote: >All of this advice is good, but of course I didn't do it that way for my >Firestar. I merely cut a piece of lexan long enough to fit over two ribs, >put a bend in it, and rivet it onto the wing. Take it up in the air, if it >is too much, take a pair of tin snips and trim it, take it up again, and >keep trimming until it flies like you want it to hands off. The nice part >about lexan is that it takes on the color of the paint that it is attached >to, and you can see where to drill the holes. I used thin aluminum (easier to bend) for my elevator trim tabs, but I used #4-40 button head screws instead of rivets to hold them on... I drilled and tapped the trailing edge and rib tubes. I figured if the threads didn't hold in the thin aluminum tubing I could drill them out and use rivets, but it hasn't been necessary. I'm intrigued by the Gurney flap though; I might try that for a rudder trim. -Dana -- Inflation is a result of legalized counterfeiting. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:01:39 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Landing Light...How do you aim them.. From: "Richard Pike" I would aim them forward, but that's just me. (BAD preacher, No! No!) Ok, sorry, I'll try to behave. Here are some pictures of the landing lights on the FSII, this was a sort of trial and error thing so that they work for landing and taxi. They are aimed so that they converge on the grass about 40' in front of the airplane when it is sitting in it's normal position. I would assume that would also work as an anti-collision light in flight, with each wing light catching the opposite side with a diverging angle. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) [Twisted Evil] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=337000#337000 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1190455_medium_138.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1190454_medium_115.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1190453_medium_769.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1190452_medium_828.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1190451_medium_985.jpg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! From: Rick Neilsen Mark Call Travis at New Kolb and get one of their adjustable wing attachment fittings. You will be able to trim the the plane to fly level without having flaps or ailerons fighting the wing for where it wants to go. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 7:41 PM, wrote: > In case lowering the left flap isn't enough, it wasn't for me, the > following might be of use. > > Regarding the size of the trim tab, I suggest the following, as done on my > Mark III classic: > > - Find a suitable piece of aluminum, as thin as .016, about two feet long > and roughly six inches wide. > > - At the edge of the long side, bend 2" by about 30 degrees. > > - Tape, (yes tape it, it doesn't need to be with 600 MPH stuff), to the > underside of the right aileron, > letting only the 2" protrude beyond the end of the aileron. > > - The tab is to face down, to push the aileron up, to push the right wing > down, > to compensate for the heavy left wing. > > - Now you can test fly and see the results. If too much/too little. change > the tab. > Just don't leave the tape on too long, like weeks, for it may pull the > paint when removed. > > - Once you're happy with results, the real fun starts, making a final > mount. > - Center your tab to cover at least two "ribs". Mark precisely where they > are on the tab. > - Scallop your tab to form two fingers forward, for attachment to those > narrow "rib" tubes. > - Drill and cleco the tab to the rear spar of the aileron. Approximately > 2" spacing. > - Now, *most precisely*, mark the center line of the "ribs" at the end > of the fingers. > - Remove the tab and drill a 1/16" hole near the end of the fingers, on > that centerline! > - Deburr everything. > - Re-attach the tab with clecos and > check how precise those !/16" holes line up with the centerline of the > "ribs" > - If precise, now use the tab hole as a guide to drill a 1/16 hole into > that narrow #$%^& rib. > One hole in each finger will do. > - Use 1/16' rivets to attach the fingers, 1/8' rivets for the spar > portion. > > Go Fly, enjoy and fix the next thing, like maybe the rudder trim, or > longitudinal trim, or prop pitch, or...... > > Herb Graff > > Kolb 246KY > > > In a message dated 4/14/2011 12:10:49 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > byoungplumbing@gmail.com writes: > > > tweak the left flap down a hair to compensate for slight left wing low > > Any suggestions as to how big the trim tab should be? > > > Mark Rinehart > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:37 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! Kolbers, Last year about this time I bought a Firestar 1 for a really good price, I thought. I wasn't thinking about registration when I bought it I was looking at ultralight class. I have since talk to the FAA and have been informed that the only way I can legally fly this plane is under part 103, Thanks Greg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ok someone help fill in the blanks here, is this a possibility,,, or am i just a hopefull daydreamer. since the plane has never been registered,,,,can you tell the faa that you bought a kit as an unfinished project,,, and that you are finishing the kit, and you want to register it as experimental armature built when you get finished.... they will allow this (I think) if you can get the builders logs, and add your builders log to the end of theirs. even though it may be that you didn't like the way something was done,, and you document and log the way you re do the repairs and finish the projuct. seems that you don't have to build the entire airplane in order to licence experimental,,,, just be able to document that the previous builders met the requirements for their part. and you met the requirements for your part. worth what ya pd boyd young mkiii ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:01 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Cristal's Merry Dawn is finally airborne again From: NeilsenRM@gmail.com Cristal Good to here your airborne again. I'm so glad you didn't sell your winged baby. I have been flying a non Kolb rental all winter and looking forward to getting back to Michigan to my baby and flying it again. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Apr 14, 2011 5:47pm, cristalclear13 wrote: > cristalclearwaters@gmail.com> > I got to fly my Kolb Mark II on Saturday evening for a few laps around > the field and a couple landings as I watched the sun go down. She flew > great and it felt great being in the air again. It had been 11 months > since I flew her!! > After having a baby and doing the following, she's as good as new...me > too, I think! :) > New battery, cleaned carbs, new fuel lines and fuel filter, cleaned gas > tanks with replaced elbow joint, vacuumed and washed, went ahead and > completed the annual inspection. > -------- > Cristal Waters > Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 > Private Pilot Aug 2008 > ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008 > Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009 > Read this topic online here: > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=336922#336922 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! From: NeilsenRM@gmail.com Greg It seems like Boyd is right. People buy unfinished airplanes all the time and get them registered. You are likely going to have problems getting a repairman's certificate (they get real picky about proving you were the builder) but at least you can fly it. I don't know about flying it as a ultralight. Seems like it would be too heavy. The maximum weight is 254 Lbs. Sometimes people get away with things like over weight, over max speed and higher stall speed but you would really be asking for trouble if you have the ability to carry more than 5 gallons of fuel or a passenger. Do you feel lucky. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Apr 15, 2011 10:40am, b young wrote: > Kolbers, > Last year about this time I bought a Firestar 1 for a really good > price, I thought. I wasn't thinking about registration when I bought it I > was looking at ultralight class. I have since talk to the FAA and have > been > informed that the only way I can legally fly this plane is under part 103, > Thanks Greg > ok someone help fill in the blanks here, is this a possibility,,, or am i > just a hopefull daydreamer. > since the plane has never been registered,,,,can you tell the faa that > you bought a kit as an unfinished project,,, and that you are finishing > the kit, and you want to register it as experimental armature built when > you get finished.... they will allow this (I think) if you can get the > builders logs, and add your builders log to the end of theirs. even > though it may be that you didn't like the way something was done,, and > you document and log the way you re do the repairs and finish the > projuct. seems that you don't have to build the entire airplane in order > to licence experimental,,,, just be able to document that the previous > builders met the requirements for their part. and you met the > requirements for your part. > worth what ya pd > boyd young > mkiii ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:29:20 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! From: Richard Girard Boyd, I've been around this topic with the FAA, both with my local FSDO and the Light Sport Branch in OK City. The problem with the approach you suggest is simple, airplanes that have been flown look like it. Particularly true if the aircraft has a two stroke spewing oil mist all over the empenage. Hangar rash, dirt, wear marks all add up. How do you explain that you've been flying the plane without having an airworthiness certificate and the inspection that precedes it? Feel free to try, but most likely all you're going to do is hack off the people you really don't want to. Rick Girard On Fri, Apr 15, 2011 at 9:40 AM, b young wrote: > > Kolbers, > Last year about this time I bought a Firestar 1 for a really good > price, I thought. I wasn't thinking about registration when I bought it I > was looking at ultralight class. I have since talk to the FAA and have been > informed that the only way I can legally fly this plane is under part 103, > Thanks Greg > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > ok someone help fill in the blanks here, is this a possibility,,, or am i > just a hopefull daydreamer. > > since the plane has never been registered,,,,can you tell the faa that you > bought a kit as an unfinished project,,, and that you are finishing the > kit, and you want to register it as experimental armature built when you > get finished.... they will allow this (I think) if you can get the > builders logs, and add your builders log to the end of theirs. even though > it may be that you didn't like the way something was done,, and you > document and log the way you re do the repairs and finish the projuct. seems > that you don't have to build the entire airplane in order to licence > experimental,,,, just be able to document that the previous builders met > the requirements for their part. and you met the requirements for your > part. > > > worth what ya pd > > boyd young > mkiii > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:31:07 AM PST US From: Mike Welch Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! > since the plane has never been registered=2C=2C=2C=2Ccan you tell the faa that you > bought a kit as an unfinished project=2C=2C=2C and that you are finishing the > kit=2C and you want to register it as experimental amateur built when you > get finished> boyd young > mkiii Boyd=2C If it were me=2C yes=2C I'd do exactly what you suggest (since I have a P PL). But=2C as I understood Greg=2C he doesn't want to fly it as a private pilot (or SP L)=2C he wants to fly it as an ultralight. Mike Welch MkIII with an N number....finally ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:50:23 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: register plane Boyd, I've been around this topic with the FAA, both with my local FSDO and the Light Sport Branch in OK City. The problem with the approach you suggest is simple, airplanes that have been flown look like it. Particularly true if the aircraft has a two stroke spewing oil mist all over the empenage. Hangar rash, dirt, wear marks all add up. How do you explain that you've been flying the plane without having an airworthiness certificate and the inspection that precedes it? Feel free to try, but most likely all you're going to do is hack off the people you really don't want to. Rick Girard Rick thanks for the input and your insight. i did not even consider the looks aspect of things....i dont know how much time is on it,,, or how much static testing that was done,,,, i am not advocating breaking the rules,,,,, just trying to find another set of rules that may be useful, that he was not aware of,,,,, i am only trying to think outside the box.... with most government rules,,, there is an exception,,, just have to find it. i dont know,,, maybe it is a lost cause... i hope Greg appreciates all the input he is getting. he is paying the right price for it. what ever he does he will have to work through it with the faa. maybe he can make the UL weight,,, i know if you add a parachute,,, it weighs less than the allotment, he might squeak in under weight. boyd young ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:38 PM PST US From: Herb Subject: Re: Kolb-List: register plane I do not know the details, but buying an n number from a wrecked plane might work? They are quite valuable . I do know that... Herb At 03:40 PM 4/15/2011, you wrote: >Boyd, I've been around this topic with the FAA, both with my local >FSDO and the Light Sport Branch in OK City. The problem with the >approach you suggest is simple, airplanes that have been flown look >like it. Particularly true if the aircraft has a two stroke spewing >oil mist all over the empenage. Hangar rash, dirt, wear marks all >add up. How do you explain that you've been flying the plane without >having an airworthiness certificate and the inspection that precedes >it? Feel free to try, but most likely all you're going to do is hack >off the people you really don't want to. > >Rick Girard > >Rick >thanks for the input and your insight. > > i did not even consider the looks aspect of things....i dont know > how much time is on it,,, or how much static testing that was > done,,,, i am not advocating breaking the rules,,,,, just trying > to find another set of rules that may be useful, that he was not > aware of,,,,, i am only trying to think outside the > box.... with most government rules,,, there is an > exception,,, just have to find it. > i dont know,,, maybe it is a lost cause... i hope Greg > appreciates all the input he is getting. he is paying the right > price for it. what ever he does he will have to work through it > with the faa. >maybe he can make the UL weight,,, i know if you add a >parachute,,, it weighs less than the allotment, he might squeak >in under weight. > >boyd young > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:17 PM PST US From: "Gregor Taylor" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! Kolbers, I appreciate all the info, I have the plane down to roughly about 288, with no BRS. The faa told me I basically had to options, use my firestar to repair one that is currently registered, or get it down to 254 LBS. My biggest worry with flying it as a fat ultralight is if they were to ramp check me and find it overweight what my punishment would be, or how would it affect my private/instrument rating. ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Welch To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 3:28 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! > since the plane has never been registered,,,,can you tell the faa that you > bought a kit as an unfinished project,,, and that you are finishing the > kit, and you want to register it as experimental amateur built when you > get finished> boyd young > mkiii Boyd, If it were me, yes, I'd do exactly what you suggest (since I have a PPL). But, as I understood Greg, he doesn't want to fly it as a private pilot (or SPL), he wants to fly it as an ultralight. Mike Welch MkIII with an N number....finally ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:50:27 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 2nd Flight! In a message dated 4/15/2011 7:28:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gtaylor35918@roadrunner.com writes: I have the plane down to roughly about 288, with no BRS. Greg/All, The UL weight allowance for a BRS (or any other brand parachute) is 24 lbs. Adding that to 254 equals 278 lbs. maximum empty weight. Since you already weigh in at 288 without the BRS, adding it (maybe 15 or 20 lbs installed) you would be at 303 to 308 lbs. Just doesn't look possible to reduce the weight that much to reach 278. Homer's original 1985 model FireStar was advertised as "probably needing a parachute to be a legal UL". And that model had the 5 rib wing with .028 " wall thickness leading and trailing spars, 1" dia. aluminum landing gear legs (talk about bending gear legs - hahaha) with plastic wheels and no brakes. A very small wind screen allowed just enough drag to prevent the Rotax 377 35 HP powerplant from exceeding the allowable 63 MPH top speed. I think. 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