---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/08/11: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:56 AM - Re: 447 quit (SS568) 2. 06:01 AM - Re: Re: 447 quit (Richard Girard) 3. 09:05 AM - Re: 447 quit (Richard Pike) 4. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: 447 quit (robert bean) 5. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: mounting Video Camera's (Pat Ladd) 6. 11:22 AM - Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (Jimmy Young) 7. 11:34 AM - Re: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (Pat Ladd) 8. 11:52 AM - Re: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (william sullivan) 9. 12:23 PM - Re: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (Pat Ladd) 10. 12:41 PM - Re: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (Dana Hague) 11. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (william sullivan) 12. 12:48 PM - Re: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (william sullivan) 13. 01:18 PM - Re: anybody in Louisiana (SS568) 14. 02:00 PM - Re: anybody in Louisiana (tkben002) 15. 06:47 PM - Re: mounting Video Camera's (Richard Pike) 16. 08:43 PM - Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (Dennis Thate) 17. 09:46 PM - Re: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh (Larry Cottrell) 18. 10:22 PM - Re: Re: 447 quit (DAquaNut@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:56:52 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 447 quit From: "SS568" Thanks for the explanations. Does it usually give any warning before happening? Such as sounds like it is laboring, misfiring, loss of rpm? David d. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345416#345416 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:53 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 quit From: Richard Girard Usually just a few seconds of decreasing RPM and then the engine stops running. The devilish thing is that it only takes a few minutes of cooling for it to free up again the first time so without dropping the exhaust "Y" off the engine and looking at the piston for physical damage it might be passed off as something else. Here's a classic example. Listen to the engine. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnizNsy8Kww Rick Girard On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 5:54 AM, SS568 wrote: > > Thanks for the explanations. > > Does it usually give any warning before happening? Such as sounds like it > is laboring, misfiring, loss of rpm? > > David d. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345416#345416 > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:05:56 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: 447 quit From: "Richard Pike" A cold seizure is what happens when the engine is comparatively cold, power is added rapidly, and the aluminum piston expands faster than the steel cylinder liner, reducing clearance. Here is Mike Stratman's analysis: http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part27.pdf The water cooled Rotax 532/582 is susceptible to a cold seizure if the water is not hot throughout the system. A long glide at idle can get the water cool, so now the thermostat closes, now the water in the radiator gets really cool because the water is hardly circulating, and then you (DOH) go to climb power. The engine starts suddenly generating serious heat so the thermostat opens and dumps the cold water from the radiator into an engine running at full power. Squeeeeak...... That is why Rotax came up with the complicated plumbing situation on the 582 Blue Head version, to try and keep the water that has gotten cool out of the engine until it gets warmed up. Also known as trying to make the engine fool proof, but we keep coming up with ways to be foolish and not give the engine what it wants. Scenario: several years ago Vince & I were doing efficiency tests on a Ivo prop which involved climbing to altitude, pulling the power back to idle, gliding down at best glide to a predetermined altitude, and then going back to full power and climbing back to a predetermined altitude, all while carefully timing the climbs and glides. After gliding down a couple thousand feet, the water temperature gauge always showed I had a cold engine, so I would ease the throttle back in and just arrest the descent at partial power - 4800 rpm or so - until I got it hot enough to go to full power and start another climb cycle. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345449#345449 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:50:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 quit From: robert bean Thanks for the thought about the steel liner. Although the suzuki is a different animal it shares some similarities: all aluminum, including head, with steel liners, water cooled. I have to wait a good period of time before takeoff because, even with a thermostat, an aluminum engine with no load sheds a lot of heat. At takeoff and cruise rpms it generates plenty. Another factor, if you are using the belt redrive, is that the engine grows and at temp the slack comes out of the belt. Not good to load it running loose. Another reason for a thorough warmup is that, even with a water heated manifold muff, the little beast is prone to carb icing. I tend to stay on the ground in weather conducive to ice problems. Even after landing at a function like a fly in, I have to wait longer than a standard airplane to get to a good engine temp. It appears that I now have my fuel contamination issue problems taken care of and it is running perfectly. Last year was a bad one but a learning experience. BTW, those new heavy wall tanks look to be doing ok. BB MkIII, suzuki 2 blade, 70" warp drive On 8, Jul 2011, at 12:03 PM, Richard Pike wrote: > > A cold seizure is what happens when the engine is comparatively cold, power is added rapidly, and the aluminum piston expands faster than the steel cylinder liner, reducing clearance. > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345449#345449 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:59:05 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: mounting Video Camera's Rick, I have just been looking at those interesting `tuft` tests of the airflow around the Xtra. The tufts seem to twist towards the vertical as the speed and RPM increases but is it the speed or the prop sucking more air through that causes the change? Have you tried a similar exercise with the engine OFF.?. That would at least establish if it is the natural airflow or the prop. You just might be able to smooth the flow out with some very careful detail work around the pod (Fit VG`s ????) but if it is the prop there doesn`t seem much that can be done. Cheers Pat .. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:51 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh From: "Jimmy Young" > Sadly in Minnesota liability issues prevents me from inviting you to stay & camp at my 'private' strip. Ok, I'll be the first. Dennis, Regarding your photo selection, are you aware Arty Trost is a female pilot? How about a little respect? -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345471#345471 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:34:30 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh Hi Dennis, <> Good grief. Things are not quite as bad as that in the UK yet. In fact there is a push developing even at governmental level to stop this sort of stupidity. Curtailing no win ,no fee operations and ambulance chasers. Our main government culprit the Health and Safety Department head came out this week and said that she was tired of organisations imposing all sorts of regulations on health and safety grounds when the Department has nothing to do with it. It is just councils and other bodies imposing unpopular rules entirely on their own bat . Schools making kids playing `conkers` wear eye shields, officials turning people off a grass mound at Wimbledon last week because` the grass was wet and someone might slip. My local Council stopped a shopkeeper displaying his goods on the sidewalk, which he has done for about 40 years , in case someone walked into it and hurt themselves. You couldn`t make it up. Perhaps some sanity is returning but don`t hold your breath. Cheers Pat ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:52:26 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh -- "The first thig we have to do is kill all the lawyers.- Then there won't be anyone around to tell us that what we are doing is wrong." - do not archive --- On Fri, 7/8/11, Pat Ladd wrote: From: Pat Ladd Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh Hi Dennis, <> Good grief. Things are not quite as bad as that in the UK yet.- In fact t here is a push developing even at governmental level to stop this sort of s tupidity. Curtailing no win ,no fee operations and ambulance chasers. Our m ain government culprit the Health and Safety Department head came out this week and said that she was tired of organisations imposing all sorts of reg ulations on health and safety grounds when the Department has nothing to do with it. It is just councils and other bodies imposing unpopular rules ent irely on their own bat . Schools making kids playing `conkers` wear eye shi elds, officials turning people off a grass mound at Wimbledon last week bec ause` the grass was wet and someone might slip. My local Council stopped a shopkeeper displaying his goods on the sidewalk, which he has done for abou t 40 years , in case someone walked into it and hurt themselves. You couldn `t make it up. Perhaps some sanity is returning but don`t hold your breath. Cheers Pat le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:23:00 PM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh "The first thig we have to do is kill all the lawyers>> Didn`t one of Shakespeare's characters say that? Even in his day they were a plague. Pat ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh From: Dana Hague You should look at Minnesota's recreational liability statute... most likely it, like most other states' status, protects you from liability as long as you don't charge for the use of your land. -Dana Jimmy Young wrote: > Sadly in Minnesota liability issues prevents me from inviting you to stay & camp at my 'private' strip. Ok, I'll be the first. Dennis, Regarding your photo selection, are you aware Arty Trost is a female pilot? How about a little respect? -------- Jimmy Young Missouri City, TX Kolb FS II/HKS 700 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345471#345471 _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ _____________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:44 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh - I always liked his quotes.- A little more suitable for the List is, " They are all insane but thee and me, and I have my doubts about thee." - do not archive --- On Fri, 7/8/11, Pat Ladd wrote: From: Pat Ladd Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh -"The first thig we have to do is kill all the lawyers>> - Didn`t- one of Shakespeare's characters say that? - Even in his day they were a plague. - Pat ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:36 PM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh - Vermont has a recreational liability release.- If your land is open t o the public, no liability.- if it's posted, it's up to you to enforce it .- I leave mine open, and if I chose to get liability insurance it's only an additional $5 a year on my homeowner's policy. - do not archive --- On Fri, 7/8/11, Dana Hague wrote: From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh You should look at Minnesota's recreational liability statute... most likel y it, like most other states' status, protects you from liability as long a s you don't charge for the use of your land. -Dana Jimmy Young wrote: Search ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: anybody in Louisiana From: "SS568" Hi Travis, I have also been sorta searching . I have not really decided on a single or 2 place Kolb. But in all likely hood it will be a Kolb. Two places to look are Craigs list and Barnstormers dot com And hang around here , often folk will hawk their Kolbs and provide a link. Introduce your self and kick a few tires. David d. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345486#345486 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:42 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: anybody in Louisiana From: "tkben002" I understand that and have been searching barnstormers pretty regularly to see what all comes up (most of which are nowhere close to me). I am looking for someone with one that is close that is not for sale so I can see it in person, sit in it and talk to the unbiased owner (not selling it to me) opinion/experiences with their aircraft. Then and only then will I think I will be able to make a good decision that the Kolb is the right aircraft for me. Travis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345489#345489 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:47:36 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: mounting Video Camera's From: "Richard Pike" Just got done buying a Koday ZI8 camera on ebay, looking forward to taking some movies of my own. Thanks for the tips. Richard Pike MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345508#345508 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:53 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh From: "Dennis Thate" There is no such thing as 'liability release' in Minnesota. If I give consent for a guest pilot to land on my private strip....friend crashes and dies. The life insurance company pays the benefactor and insurance company goes after me to reclaim their losses. Even if friend has signed an 'liability release' agreement not to sue. Which by the way is not legal in Minnesota. Regarding photo; I have "an indelicate sense of humor". You'll have to toughen up a bit. [Wink] -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345521#345521 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:46:11 PM PST US From: "Larry Cottrell" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh Never mind the photo, I was wondering why if you did not intend to offer any help to Arty, did you even bother to reply to her request for friendly places to stop? Larry Note: If you forward this email, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my email address. ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis Thate To: kolb-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 9:41 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Looking for info about route to Oshkosh There is no such thing as 'liability release' in Minnesota. If I give consent for a guest pilot to land on my private strip....friend crashes and dies. The life insurance company pays the benefactor and insurance company goes after me to reclaim their losses. Even if friend has signed an 'liability release' agreement not to sue. Which by the way is not legal in Minnesota. Regarding photo; I have "an indelicate sense of humor". You'll have to toughen up a bit. [Wink] -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=345521#345521 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:20 PM PST US From: DAquaNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: 447 quit Rick and Jack, I went to the hanger today and started the Firefly. I dialed the Ivo in at 6250 rpms. I ran it for about 30 minutes. I made 2 takeoffs and put her right back down on the runway. All seemed normal. Checked compression. Both cylinders read 87 lbs. I pulled the exhaust off and looked in the ports. There appeared to be a few shiny streaks up and down on the pistons, but I could not feel them with my finger. The rings were all loose when pushed with a stick. Looking back to the day it quit , I had it tied down, and running in a nose down attitude with less than a gallon of gas so it could be it was starved for fuel. I am sure what to do at this point. Ed Diebel { In Houston FF 62 ) dated 7/4/2011 1:17:31 P.M. Central Daylight Time, aslsa.rng@gmail.com writes: Take off the exhaust manifold at the port and examine the side of the piston. If it seized that's where you'll find the damage. You're looking for vertical streaks or scratches. If you find evidence one or both pistons seized you can use Muriatic (concrete etch) acid on a rag to clean off the aluminum on the cylinder walls. Be careful to only get it on the iron cylinder liner. You'll need to replace both pistons, too. Rick Girard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.