Kolb-List Digest Archive

Wed 07/20/11


Total Messages Posted: 7



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:08 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 07/19/11 (Bob Green)
     2. 08:16 AM - Mk IIIC in Kansas (Richard Girard)
     3. 10:11 AM - new kolber (tkben002)
     4. 12:50 PM - Re: Mk IIIC in Kansas (Mike Welch)
     5. 06:45 PM - Re: new kolber (b young)
     6. 07:13 PM - Re: new kolber (tkben002)
     7. 08:10 PM - Re: Re: new kolber (b young)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:08:53 AM PST US
    From: Bob Green <bgreen@bimi.org>
    Subject: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 07/19/11
    John B. Unless providentially hindered I plan to make it for the Nauga Field gathering. Will be driving since I am not flying the MKIIIX yet... or maybe I will be November??? Hope to see you all. Bob Green N830PB MKIIIX GPAS VW with re-drive.


    Message 2


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    Time: 08:16:50 AM PST US
    Subject: Mk IIIC in Kansas
    From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
    I don't suppose there are any lurkers who are Mk IIIC builders in Kansas or Oklahoma, are there? Preferably with an uncovered fuselage weldment so I can take lots of measurements. Mine took a good twist when the left main gear was pulled off and I have no idea how far the damage spread through the truss. Rick Girard -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 3


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    Time: 10:11:50 AM PST US
    Subject: new kolber
    From: "tkben002" <tkben002@bellsouth.net>
    Hello all, I recently purchased the kolbra with the jabiru 2200 that was on barnstormers. This is my first plane purchase. I have not flown the a/c yet as I as still going over the entire plane. I have a weight and balance question. According the the weight and balance sheet the a/c has a ew of 580.6 and a moment of 17899.9. I weigh in around 225-230. With me in the plane and no fuel I am forward of the forward cg limit of 16" to 22.4". When I add any passenger weight it only gets worse.(i do understand why) Is this normal for other Kolbra owners? I guess the best was to handle this is to loose weight but that is kinda hard to do. I thought about a heavier tailwheel but do not know where to start. Maybe adding lead to the tail. any suggestions. Thanks, Travis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347185#347185


    Message 4


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    Time: 12:50:06 PM PST US
    From: Mike Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Mk IIIC in Kansas
    Rick=2C Although I'm not in Kansas anymore=2C (same as Dorothy & ToTo)=2C I wouldn't mind making dozens of measurementsand LOTs of pictures for you =2C if you want. Just let me know. I'm in Tampa=2C though=2C on a mini-v acation. We're headed back home on Saturday/Sunday. If you could wait unt ilMonday=2C I'll get ya all the info you'll need. Mike Welch(PS. For the r ecord....none of "that" area of my fuselage is altered to be an Xtra....in other words=2C it's identical toyours..just straighter.) Date: Wed=2C 20 Jul 2011 10:14:24 -0500 Subject: Kolb-List: Mk IIIC in Kansas From: aslsa.rng@gmail.com I don't suppose there are any lurkers who are Mk IIIC builders in Kansas or Oklahoma=2C are there? Preferably with an uncovered fuselage weldment so I can take lots of measurements. Mine took a good twist when the left main g ear was pulled off and I have no idea how far the damage spread through the truss. Rick Girard -- Zulu DeltaMk IIICThanks=2C Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:45:48 PM PST US
    From: "b young" <by0ung@q.com>
    Subject: Re: new kolber
    According the the weight and balance sheet the a/c has a ew of 580.6 and a moment of 17899.9. I weigh in around 225-230. Travis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> travis, this is not quite enough information,,,, at least for me... 17899.9/580.6= 30.83 i am guessing this is the cg,,,,,, empty or with you on board? ok i am assuming the datum for cg calculations is the leading edge of the wing, at what % of wing chord does 30.83 represent? what is the arm with you in the pilot seat? and how far does that change the cg with you in the plane? and again with a passenger? assuming the first numbers is the plane empty,,, in order to help we would need the weight of you and the arm,,,, the weight of a passenger and the arm. how much fuel, and the arm.. the limits for the plane, then we would have enough information to help. boyd young mkiii utah. i have a w&b spread sheet i could email... if you want.


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:13:43 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: new kolber
    From: "tkben002" <tkben002@bellsouth.net>
    30.8 is correct on the empty weight cg. The arm for the front seat is -23, rear seat is 6 and fuel is 33 (it only holds 10 gallons). Datum is the leading edge of wing. I did not weigh the aircraft as I assumed all of these calculations are correct, but maybe I should. (the w&b was provided by the previous owner when it was registered) with just me and full fuel I am at 16.7 which is in cg range. If I empty the tank I am 15.56 why is just over the forward limit. I have run many calculations and the worst is up to 14.4 forward cg. I have been trying to read the archives and find out as much as possible and as far as I can tell the forward cg will hurt performance and I will loose elevator authority as slow speeds. I guess I did not do enough homework as I was not expecting to be at the forward cg limit. Apparently there are not very many Kolbra's out there as there is not very much info in the archives for them. Travis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=347251#347251


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:10:33 PM PST US
    From: "b young" <byoungplumbing@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: new kolber
    30.8 is correct on the empty weight cg. The arm for the front seat is -23, rear seat is 6 and fuel is 33 (it only holds 10 gallons). Datum is the leading edge of wing. I did not weigh the aircraft as I assumed all of these calculations are correct, but maybe I should. (the w&b was provided by the previous owner when it was registered) with just me and full fuel I am at 16.7 which is in cg range. If I empty the tank I am 15.56 why is just over the forward limit. I have run many calculations and the worst is up to 14.4 forward cg. I have been trying to read the archives and find out as much as possible and as far as I can tell the forward cg will hurt performance and I will loose elevator authority as slow speeds. I guess I did not do enough homework as I was not expecting to be at the forward cg limit. Apparently there are not very many Kolbra's out there as there is not very much info in the archives for them. Travis empty plane cg is 30,8 with you in the plane the cg moves to 15.55 with 2 gal of fuel it moves to 15.81 full fuel and you goes to 16.75 add a 180 lb passenger it goes to 14.91 you, 180 lb passenger and 2 gal gas 14.04 the worst case I found is 14.04 and assuming 60 inch wide chord the cg in % of wing cord is 23.42" and if a 66 inch wing cord the cg in % of wing is 21.29 my mkiii plans say cg in % of wing should be between 25% and 35% now I am not sure what your plans say is acceptable,,,, and I have not any personal experience with the kolbra,,,,,, but "MY" mkIIIC flies better in the back half of the cg range,,, than it does in the front half. your mileage may vary. I would try and find out from someone with kolbra experience,,,,, no don't try,,,, do find someone with experience with a kolbra.. if and I say "if" the numbers as cg in % of wing cord are similar to the mkiii... I think I would try and move the engine back,, the battery,,, prop extension. heavier tail wheel, lead, etc..... please don't take anything represented here as anything more than a brain storming episode. again I have no experience with your model plane. boyd young mkiii utah




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