---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 08/02/11: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:50 AM - New Owner, Enlighten me please (Dennis Thate) 2. 06:09 AM - Re: New Owner, Enlighten me please (robert bean) 3. 06:18 AM - Re: New Owner, Enlighten me please (gotime242) 4. 07:08 AM - Re: History of Kolb aircraft (David Kulp) 5. 09:53 AM - Re: History of Kolb aircraft (Richard Girard) 6. 10:44 AM - Re: History of Kolb aircraft (Dennis Thate) 7. 10:46 AM - Re: History of Kolb aircraft (robert bean) 8. 01:05 PM - Re: History of Kolb aircraft (Richard Girard) 9. 04:59 PM - Re: New Owner, Enlighten me please (Dennis Thate) 10. 05:28 PM - Re: History of Kolb aircraft (Dana Hague) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:51 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: New Owner, Enlighten me please From: "Dennis Thate" My Kolb Firestar II / Rotax 503 Experimental with only 80 hours on the airframe & engine, now needs it's first annual inspection in August . I'm now the second owner, I didn't build it so I need an A&P to do the inspection. What does this inspection consist of ? What forms do I need to provide the A&P with ? What forms does he need to sign. What is a typical cost of this condition inspection. What does the A&P inspect? Any accurate info would for a legal inspection would be appreciated. [Question] Thanks -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348351#348351 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: New Owner, Enlighten me please From: robert bean The same procedure as an annual but called a "condition inspection" Log book entry BB On 2, Aug 2011, at 8:48 AM, Dennis Thate wrote: > > My Kolb Firestar II / Rotax 503 Experimental with only 80 hours on the airframe & engine, now needs it's first annual inspection in August . I'm now the second owner, I didn't build it so I need an A&P to do the inspection. > > What does this inspection consist of ? What forms do I need to provide the A&P with ? What forms does he need to sign. What is a typical cost of this condition inspection. What does the A&P inspect? > > Any accurate info would for a legal inspection would be appreciated. > > [Question] Thanks > > -------- > Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern > > > Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348351#348351 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:57 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Owner, Enlighten me please From: "gotime242" The cost really depends on who you get to do it. Most AP's will never touch and aircraft such as a kolb to do a condition inspections...or anything else for that matter. So you will have to find one that is comfortable with these experimental airplanes. What most people end up doing is having a freind who is an AP do it for a couple hundred bucks or less. If you took it to a shop that you dont know at all, and they agree to do it...i cant say what it might cost, could be quite a bit. As far as forms go, once complete he will need to add an Annual Condition Inspection log entry to your airframe and engine logbooks, and he will check your a/c registration and airworthiness. Thats really about it aside from whatever he has you fill out. The AP will inspect the condition of the entire aircraft. I attached a non-official inspection checklist that someone else on this forum had for a Kolbra and changed it a little bit, to give you an idea of what to look for. Hope this helps. -Dylan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348355#348355 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/annual_inspection_checklist_174.doc ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:08:33 AM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: History of Kolb aircraft Time: 12:35:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: History of Kolb aircraft From: "Dennis Thate" Thanks, Great Post and new to me. Homer's early design seemed a fish out of water in the early years of the ultra lite movement. But his three axis control set him apart from some of the weight shift death traps of the early days. Hello Kolbers, I don't get some attachments so I don't know if this has been included in the thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ultralight movement began in the '80s when they began hanging engines on hang gliders, hence the wight shift models. However, as you can see in the attached photo, Homer was building real three axis "ultralights" about 30 years before they existed. This photo is from '56 which puts Homer in his early 20s. The aircraft was powered by 4 chainsaw engines. This is early history of the fine aircraft we are fortunate enough to fly. Best, Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: History of Kolb aircraft From: Richard Girard Actually it was the mid 70's. I had a Mac 101 powered Easy Riser in '76 and a Soarmaster power pack on a Phoenix 8 Sr. in '78. Rick Girard On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:05 AM, David Kulp wrote: > > Time: 12:35:17 PM PST US > Subject: Re: History of Kolb aircraft > From: "Dennis Thate" > > > Thanks, Great Post and new to me. Homer's early design seemed a fish > out of water > in the early years of the ultra lite movement. But his three axis > control set > him apart from some of the weight shift death traps of the early days. > > Hello Kolbers, > > I don't get some attachments so I don't know if this has been included in > the thread. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ultralight movement began in the > '80s when > they began hanging engines on hang gliders, hence the wight shift models. > However, > as you can see in the attached photo, Homer was building real three axis > "ultralights" > about 30 years before they existed. > > This photo is from '56 which puts Homer in his early 20s. The aircraft was > powered > by 4 chainsaw engines. This is early history of the fine aircraft we are > fortunate > enough to fly. > > Best, > > Dave Kulp > Bethlehem, PA > FireFly 11DMK > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: History of Kolb aircraft From: "Dennis Thate" Airframe Info Manufacturer: Kolb Model: KOLB FEATHER Search all Kolb KOLB FEATHER Year built: 0000 Construction Number (C/N): K2 Number of Seats: 1 Number of Engines: 1 Aircraft Registration Number: N2HK Mode S Code: 50307012 Current Status: Deregistered http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/N2HK.html Well Homer was definitely a pioneer ! -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348403#348403 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:38 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: History of Kolb aircraft Several years ago I had stopped in at a neighbor's place who has a back yard strip and watched a pterodactal fly. Being a guy with a license and a real airplane, I was content with my lot in life but, just the same, quite curious about these rigs of cable and slipcover wings. -the better ones were actually sort of inviting. The driver was a hippie looking guy, ponytail and berkenstocks. Seemed a little standoffish or aloof. About what, I don't know. He spent a long time on his preflight which, considering the plane, was certainly in order. Then he climbed aboard, started and took off. -alarming angle of climb, leveling off a couple hundred feet above and did a turn tight enough that the inboard wingtip could have been on a pivot post. Well maybe it WAS capable of the climb angle, but I knew for certain that if that thing quit he was in a pickle. Sure enough, I talked to the neighbor a few years after that event and was informed that he had been seriously broken up in an accident. Maybe one of you guyz who did fly these early kits can tell me why you would have spent as much money on one as a real airplane. ???? I might have bought one but the economics looked like a bad deal. BB MkIII, suzuki -close enough to a real airplane for me On 2, Aug 2011, at 12:50 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > Actually it was the mid 70's. I had a Mac 101 powered Easy Riser in '76 and a Soarmaster power pack on a Phoenix 8 Sr. in '78. > > Rick Girard > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:05 AM, David Kulp wrote: > > Time: 12:35:17 PM PST US > Subject: Re: History of Kolb aircraft > From: "Dennis Thate" > > > Thanks, Great Post and new to me. Homer's early design seemed a fish out of water > in the early years of the ultra lite movement. But his three axis control set > him apart from some of the weight shift death traps of the early days. > > Hello Kolbers, > > I don't get some attachments so I don't know if this has been included in the thread. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ultralight movement began in the '80s when > they began hanging engines on hang gliders, hence the wight shift models. However, > as you can see in the attached photo, Homer was building real three axis "ultralights" > about 30 years before they existed. > > This photo is from '56 which puts Homer in his early 20s. The aircraft was powered > by 4 chainsaw engines. This is early history of the fine aircraft we are fortunate > enough to fly. > > Best, > > Dave Kulp > Bethlehem, PA > FireFly 11DMK > > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:05:43 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: History of Kolb aircraft From: Richard Girard Oh, man, way back when. The Easy Riser kit was $900 plus about $50 shipping. I found a couple of new MAC 101 engines for $135 each and John Moody's plans were $15. A prop was $50 and I built everything else. No landing gear, foot launched, so I made a couple of skids to keep my butt out of the prop if I should happen to fall on take off or landing. Climb rate was 150 fpm. Scared the peewadden out of me every time I flew it. Sold the Easy Riser, bought the latest hang glider after seeing the Phoenix line at the Nationals in Oklahoma in '77. $950 from a friend who was a dealer. Three of us went in to get the dealer discount on Soarmaster powerpacks. $650 as I recall. The West Bend engine had 8 hp. Climb rate was 75 fpm on a good day, maybe. The first time I flew it I barely cleared the power lines and tree line a half mile from my starting point and then I was over a subdivision. Boy did those people look shocked to see me. As I got higher it was like watching ants coming out of a hive. By the time I came back to land there were a couple of hundred people to watch. By the third flight the local news arrived. Nobody had ever seen some idiot run across the ground and then take off before. They were all sure I was nuts. Probably was. Probably still am. Rick On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:43 PM, robert bean wrote: > Several years ago I had stopped in at a neighbor's place who has a back > yard strip and watched a pterodactal fly. > Being a guy with a license and a real airplane, I was content with my lot > in life but, just the same, quite curious about > these rigs of cable and slipcover wings. -the better ones were actually > sort of inviting. > > The driver was a hippie looking guy, ponytail and berkenstocks. Seemed a > little standoffish or aloof. About what, I don't know. > He spent a long time on his preflight which, considering the plane, was > certainly in order. Then he climbed aboard, > started and took off. -alarming angle of climb, leveling off a couple > hundred feet above and did a turn tight enough that the inboard wingtip > could have been on a pivot post. > > Well maybe it WAS capable of the climb angle, but I knew for certain that > if that thing quit he was in a pickle. > Sure enough, I talked to the neighbor a few years after that event and was > informed that he had been seriously broken up in an accident. > > Maybe one of you guyz who did fly these early kits can tell me why you > would have spent as much money on one as a real > airplane. ???? I might have bought one but the economics looked like a bad > deal. > BB > MkIII, suzuki > -close enough to a real airplane for me > > On 2, Aug 2011, at 12:50 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > > Actually it was the mid 70's. I had a Mac 101 powered Easy Riser in '76 and > a Soarmaster power pack on a Phoenix 8 Sr. in '78. > > Rick Girard > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:05 AM, David Kulp wrote: > >> >> Time: 12:35:17 PM PST US >> Subject: Re: History of Kolb aircraft >> From: "Dennis Thate" >> >> >> Thanks, Great Post and new to me. Homer's early design seemed a fish >> out of water >> in the early years of the ultra lite movement. But his three axis >> control set >> him apart from some of the weight shift death traps of the early >> days. >> >> Hello Kolbers, >> >> I don't get some attachments so I don't know if this has been included in >> the thread. >> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the ultralight movement began in >> the '80s when >> they began hanging engines on hang gliders, hence the wight shift models. >> However, >> as you can see in the attached photo, Homer was building real three axis >> "ultralights" >> about 30 years before they existed. >> >> This photo is from '56 which puts Homer in his early 20s. The aircraft >> was powered >> by 4 chainsaw engines. This is early history of the fine aircraft we are >> fortunate >> enough to fly. >> >> Best, >> >> Dave Kulp >> Bethlehem, PA >> FireFly 11DMK >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:07 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Owner, Enlighten me please From: "Dennis Thate" Thanks so much ! -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern Faith is believing what you know ain't so - Mark Twain Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=348450#348450 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:21 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: History of Kolb aircraft At 01:43 PM 8/2/2011, robert bean wrote: >Maybe one of you guyz who did fly these early kits can tell me why you >would have spent as much money on one as a real >airplane. ???? I might have bought one but the economics looked like a >bad deal. The 'dacs weren't bad planes if flown within their limitations. They were way overpowered with a Cuyuna engine (they could exceed Vne in level flight!), but that must've made them a blast to fly (I never flew one, but a friend of mine remembers his fondly). Yes, I bought my old T-Craft back then for about what a new Quicksilver cost, but the picture might have been different if I didn't already have my pilot certificate. It's all about what kind of flying you want to do. Even today, a new PPG costs as much or more than a used fixed wing ultralight, but PPGs are probably outselling fixed wing ultralights by 10 to 1 or more. As a PPG pilot also, I understand why. -Dana -- Stupidity got us into this mess... why can't it get us out? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.