Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:40 AM - intro and request (Lee Morgan)
2. 05:59 AM - Re: intro and request (Richard Girard)
3. 06:43 AM - Re: rain tolerant prop (willuribe@aol.com)
4. 07:00 AM - Re: rain tolerant prop (Thom Riddle)
5. 07:18 AM - Re: rain tolerant prop (Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN)
6. 07:45 AM - Re: rain tolerant prop ()
7. 08:45 AM - Re: Re: rain tolerant prop (Thom Riddle)
8. 09:28 AM - Re: Re: rain tolerant prop (robert bean)
9. 03:13 PM - Re: intro and request (gliderx5@comcast.net)
10. 05:34 PM - Re: intro and request (gliderx5@comcast.net)
11. 06:51 PM - New FireStar II Owner (FIRESTARII)
12. 07:10 PM - Re: New FireStar II Owner (Herb)
13. 07:27 PM - Re: New FireStar II Owner (Richard Girard)
14. 07:57 PM - Re: Re: rain tolerant prop (Ron @ KFHU)
15. 09:59 PM - Re: New FireStar II Owner (Beauford)
16. 10:58 PM - Re: New FireStar II Owner (Renee)
Message 1
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Subject: | intro and request |
Hi,
I am new to this list, I recently purchased a Twinstar MK II Kolb that has
been a hanger queen for some years.
I plan on going thru it this winter and also recovering the fuselage
section. I recently received a copy of the builders manual from someone
on the yahoo list but I then had a computer crash and had to rebuild my
system. In the rebuild I lost the manual and my email contacts.
I am looking for another copy of this manual and any additional info that
someone would share.
Thanks for any help.
Lee..
currently flying a CGS Hawk Classic with a 532 rotax.
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: intro and request |
Lee, Where are you located?
Rick Girard
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 6:36 AM, Lee Morgan <lmorgan100@charter.net> wrote:
> Hi,****
>
> I am new to this list, I recently purchased a Twinstar MK II Kolb that has
> been a hanger queen for some years.****
>
> I plan on going thru it this winter and also recovering the fuselage
> section. I recently received a copy of the builders manual from someone **
> **
>
> on the yahoo list but I then had a computer crash and had to rebuild my
> system. In the rebuild I lost the manual and my email contacts.****
>
> I am looking for another copy of this manual and any additional info that
> someone would share.****
>
> Thanks for any help.****
>
> Lee..****
>
> currently flying a CGS Hawk Classic with a 532 rotax.****
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: rain tolerant prop |
Thom,
It is a 62" 3 blade IVO Prop and in the picture the EIS is showing 6330 RPM
s
Regards,
Will Uribe
FireStar II
El Paso, TX
But next month I will be working in Tonowanda, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: Thom Riddle
Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2011 3:19 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rain tolerant prop
Thanks for the additional suggestions.
Will,
What rpm is your prop turning and what is its diameter? The reason I ask is
that my Jabiru was turning about 2900 rpm (direct drive) while trying to g
et home fast in the rain. This is about 150 rpm more than my normal cruise.
Only the outermost 6-7 inches of the 64" prop showed any damage. At 2900 R
PM and air speed of 90 mph. The tips were moving thru the air at about 640
mph and the inner most point of the damage it was about 520 mph. At speeds
less than that, the TN prop leading edge seems fine.
In the future, when flying in the rain, I will consider slowing down to 65
mph and 2400 rpm which will mean the tip speed is about 520 mph.
Thom
On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM, wrote:
I have flown my FireStar II in the rain with an IVO prop with no damage.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: rain tolerant prop |
Will,
Based on your numbers, assuming you have 2.58:1 gearbox and you are flying
at 65 mph airspeed, then your prop tip speed is about 517 mph under those
conditions. Based on your data and mine (admittedly small sample) about 520
mph or thereabouts seems to be the limit of at least composites before rain
begins to cause damage.
Thom
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 9:41 AM, <willuribe@aol.com> wrote:
> Thom,
>
>
> It is a 62" 3 blade IVO Prop and in the picture the EIS is showing 6330
> RPMs
>
> Regards,
> Will Uribe
> FireStar II
> El Paso, TX
> But next month I will be working in Tonowanda, NY
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thom Riddle
> To: kolb-list <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Mon, Sep 12, 2011 3:19 pm
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: rain tolerant prop
>
> Thanks for the additional suggestions.
>
> Will,
> What rpm is your prop turning and what is its diameter? The reason I ask
> is that my Jabiru was turning about 2900 rpm (direct drive) while trying to
> get home fast in the rain. This is about 150 rpm more than my normal cruise.
> Only the outermost 6-7 inches of the 64" prop showed any damage. At 2900 RPM
> and air speed of 90 mph. The tips were moving thru the air at about 640 mph
> and the inner most point of the damage it was about 520 mph. At speeds less
> than that, the TN prop leading edge seems fine.
>
> In the future, when flying in the rain, I will consider slowing down to
> 65 mph and 2400 rpm which will mean the tip speed is about 520 mph.
>
> Thom
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM, wrote:
>
>>
>> I have flown my FireStar II in the rain with an IVO prop with no damage.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: rain tolerant prop |
<< I'll get some Power Fin plastic tape and try it out as sacrificial
material. Thom >>
Thom R - Where can you get Powerfin tape these days? I thought the
company went out of business.
Dennis Kirby
Mark-3, 912ul
Sandia Park, NM
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: rain tolerant prop |
Based on your data and mine (admittedly small sample) about 520
> mph or thereabouts seems to be the limit of at least composites before rain
> begins to cause damage.
>
> Thom
Without the protection of the nickle steel leading edge, rain will eat up a Warp
Drive solid carbon fiber prop blade.
In the old days, WD was limited to a 12" steAel edge. During my first flight to
Alaska, in 1994, I ended up flying in hours of very heavy rain. When I landed
at Arlington, WA, a gent named Bob, that worked for WD, told me to fix the
erosion with JB Weld or I was going to blow a steel edge off. Rain had erroded
a couple inches inboard of the steel edge, plus was trying to lift the inboard
end of it. Did a field expedient repair on the airfield with avgas, a plastic
picnic knife, and some sandpaper.
Today, WD has the technology to use 15" nickle steel leading edges. This takes
care of that small area that was not protected by the old 12" edges.
john h
mkIII
Morgan, UT
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: rain tolerant prop |
Denis,
It did go out of business but someone bought them out and started selling
them again, about a year ago or perhaps a little longer. I have not checked
in recent months so don't know if they are still afloat. Google should tell
you.
Thom
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 10:15 AM, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN <
Dennis.Kirby@kirtland.af.mil> wrote:
> << I'll get some Power Fin plastic tape and try it out as sacrificial
> material. Thom >>****
>
> ** **
>
> Thom R - Where can you get Powerfin tape these days? I thought the company
> went out of business.****
>
> ** **
>
> Dennis Kirby****
>
> Mark-3, 912ul****
>
> Sandia Park, NM****
>
> ** **
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: rain tolerant prop |
Dennis, I once bought some "authentic" prop tape which turned out to
too old to adhere to anything,
so I bought some heavy packing tape which worked very well. I don't
remember what brand it was so you
may have to buy more than one roll. Since it comes two inches wide you
will have to cut it down the middle.
One inch seems to be a perfect width. Stick the center on the leading
edge at the middle first, then press down the
curved edge (rear on a kolb:) and last, the flat side.
The tape on my warp is starting to look a little ratty near the tips now
so I should think about redoing them next spring.
BB
On 13, Sep 2011, at 10:15 AM, Kirby, Dennis Civ USAF AFMC AFNWC/EN
wrote:
> << I'll get some Power Fin plastic tape and try it out as sacrificial
material. Thom >>
>
> Thom R - Where can you get Powerfin tape these days? I thought the
company went out of business.
>
> Dennis Kirby
> Mark-3, 912ul
> Sandia Park, NM
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: intro and request |
Hi Lee
If you are recovering the fuselage it's a good time to put in a larger fuel tank
(depending what you currently have of course). I replaced my 5 gallon with a
10 gallon poly dune buggy tank. It worked out very well. I can send pictures
if it would help.
Malcolm
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/kolb.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Morgan" <lmorgan100@charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:36:30 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: intro and request
Hi,
I am new to this list, I recently purchased a Twinstar MK II Kolb that has been
a hanger queen for some years.
I plan on going thru it this winter and also recovering the fuselage section. I
recently received a copy of the builders manual from someone
on the yahoo list but I then had a computer crash and had to rebuild my system.
In the rebuild I lost the manual and my email contacts.
I am looking for another copy of this manual and any additional info that someone
would share.
Thanks for any help.
Lee..
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: intro and request |
I just put some pictures of the tank installation on my web site. It's about half
way down the page.
Malcolm
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/kolb.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: gliderx5@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: intro and request
Hi Lee
If you are recovering the fuselage it's a good time to put in a larger fuel tank
(depending what you currently have of course). I replaced my 5 gallon with a
10 gallon poly dune buggy tank. It worked out very well. I can send pictures
if it would help.
Malcolm
http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/kolb.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Morgan" <lmorgan100@charter.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 7:36:30 AM
Subject: Kolb-List: intro and request
Hi,
I am new to this list, I recently purchased a Twinstar MK II Kolb that has been
a hanger queen for some years.
I plan on going thru it this winter and also recovering the fuselage section. I
recently received a copy of the builders manual from someone
on the yahoo list but I then had a computer crash and had to rebuild my system.
In the rebuild I lost the manual and my email contacts.
I am looking for another copy of this manual and any additional info that someone
would share.
Thanks for any help.
Lee..
Message 11
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Subject: | New FireStar II Owner |
:D Hello everybody, My name is Seth Miller I live in Ohio just south of Medina.
I recently purchased "GoTime's" FSII airplane. To date I have logged a little
over 40 hours in the airplane and thats in less than a month of ownership!
I have flown many, many different airplanes and have logged a little over
9800 hours. I currently hold a first class medical, an ATP with a type in the
EMB-145, an ME-CFII and all the other ratings that go alone with that! The FSII
by far the most fun, easiest to fly, and rewarding aircraft I have flown to
date. Since my purchase I have installed new much larger tires in order to
get in and out of my meager 600' strip at my farm in southern Ohio. I also installed
the Stol Speed VG's and the difference, although not "profound", is noticeable
and significant and I would recommend them to any Kolb owner. The low
speed handling and feel was dramatically improved and the stall, although alrealy
mild became a very predictable "mush", both power on and off. The reason
for my post is the airplane is equipped with the 3 blade IVO quick adjust
prop and, because I am spoiled, I want an in-flight, constant speed, adjustable
prop. IVO offers this but only at a steep price. I am curious if any body
has had experience with this set up and weather or not its worth the weight and
complexity penalty. As far as flight conditions go I almost always have one
of my two boys with me or my "Hot Wife"(who, surprisingly absolutely loves the
airplane) so I fly fairly heavy off an otherwise very short strip. The prop,
not sure of the actual pitch, is set with a max static RPM of 6800 so its pure
TO/CLIMB and cruise suffers some what. I would like a happy medium and/or
that adjustable/constant speed retro fit that IVO offers. Any input/advise would
really be appreciated. Thanks everybody and I really enjoy all your post(religious
or not) the information really helped me after the purchase of my airplane.
--------
Low and Slow FireStar II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352221#352221
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: New FireStar II Owner |
I have a three blade in air adjustable ivo...for 503 and 582...Half
price...Herb
At 08:49 PM 9/13/2011, you wrote:
>
>:D Hello everybody, My name is Seth Miller I live in Ohio just
>south of Medina. I recently purchased "GoTime's" FSII airplane. To
>date I have logged a little over 40 hours in the airplane and thats
>in less than a month of ownership! I have flown many, many
>different airplanes and have logged a little over 9800 hours. I
>currently hold a first class medical, an ATP with a type in the
>EMB-145, an ME-CFII and all the other ratings that go alone with
>that! The FSII by far the most fun, easiest to fly, and rewarding
>aircraft I have flown to date. Since my purchase I have installed
>new much larger tires in order to get in and out of my meager 600'
>strip at my farm in southern Ohio. I also installed the Stol Speed
>VG's and the difference, although not "profound", is noticeable and
>significant and I would recommend them to any Kolb owner. The low
>speed handling and feel was dramatically improved and the stall,
>although alrealy mild became a very predictable "mush", both p!
> ower on and off. The reason for my post is the airplane is
> equipped with the 3 blade IVO quick adjust prop and, because I am
> spoiled, I want an in-flight, constant speed, adjustable prop. IVO
> offers this but only at a steep price. I am curious if any body
> has had experience with this set up and weather or not its worth
> the weight and complexity penalty. As far as flight conditions go
> I almost always have one of my two boys with me or my "Hot
> Wife"(who, surprisingly absolutely loves the airplane) so I fly
> fairly heavy off an otherwise very short strip. The prop, not sure
> of the actual pitch, is set with a max static RPM of 6800 so its
> pure TO/CLIMB and cruise suffers some what. I would like a happy
> medium and/or that adjustable/constant speed retro fit that IVO
> offers. Any input/advise would really be appreciated. Thanks
> everybody and I really enjoy all your post(religious or not) the
> information really helped me after the purchase of my airplane.
>
>--------
>Low and Slow FireStar II
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352221#352221
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: New FireStar II Owner |
Seth, You didn't say what engine you have so forgive me if I assume wrong,
but I would guess either a 447 or 503 Rotax. At any rate a two stroke. If
you install an inflight adjustable prop you're going to find yourself
chasing CHT and EGT readings all over the map because the prop is part of
the intake and exhaust tuning on a two stroke. If you increase pitch you'll
find your CHT readings going high, if you set the base for an ultra climb
setting, the CHT's will drop but the EGT readings will go high.
I am not a fan of IVO props. I've had both a two blade and three blade on a
447 powered trike and a 377 powered Minimax respectively. They don't seem to
have much quality control over either how the crank is welded on the wire or
how it's anchored in the blade. I honestly don't know which is the case, but
when I put my Warp Drive propeller protractor on either of them I never
found two blades the same. Both props had a one degree variation in pitch
between the blades and with their system you cannot adjust it out.
I also found I had to machine the blocks on the two blade to make them equal
to the prop thickness otherwise the aluminum cover plate had to bend in
order to contact the blades.
My 2 cents.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Sep 13, 2011 at 8:49 PM, FIRESTARII <CCMFarms@aol.com> wrote:
>
> :D Hello everybody, My name is Seth Miller I live in Ohio just south of
> Medina. I recently purchased "GoTime's" FSII airplane. To date I have
> logged a little over 40 hours in the airplane and thats in less than a month
> of ownership! I have flown many, many different airplanes and have logged a
> little over 9800 hours. I currently hold a first class medical, an ATP with
> a type in the EMB-145, an ME-CFII and all the other ratings that go alone
> with that! The FSII by far the most fun, easiest to fly, and rewarding
> aircraft I have flown to date. Since my purchase I have installed new much
> larger tires in order to get in and out of my meager 600' strip at my farm
> in southern Ohio. I also installed the Stol Speed VG's and the difference,
> although not "profound", is noticeable and significant and I would recommend
> them to any Kolb owner. The low speed handling and feel was dramatically
> improved and the stall, although alrealy mild became a very predictable
> "mush", both p!
> ower on and off. The reason for my post is the airplane is equipped with
> the 3 blade IVO quick adjust prop and, because I am spoiled, I want an
> in-flight, constant speed, adjustable prop. IVO offers this but only at a
> steep price. I am curious if any body has had experience with this set up
> and weather or not its worth the weight and complexity penalty. As far as
> flight conditions go I almost always have one of my two boys with me or my
> "Hot Wife"(who, surprisingly absolutely loves the airplane) so I fly fairly
> heavy off an otherwise very short strip. The prop, not sure of the actual
> pitch, is set with a max static RPM of 6800 so its pure TO/CLIMB and cruise
> suffers some what. I would like a happy medium and/or that
> adjustable/constant speed retro fit that IVO offers. Any input/advise would
> really be appreciated. Thanks everybody and I really enjoy all your
> post(religious or not) the information really helped me after the purchase
> of my airplane.
>
> --------
> Low and Slow FireStar II
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=352221#352221
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 14
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From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: rain tolerant prop |
This is a little off the top, so hold on to your hats, but since I know that my
Alum prop handles rain pretty well, in fact its not an issue that ever
came up, why not place an alum prop on the M3 sized Kolbs for the rainy day fliers.
I have not looked into the weight penalty
and all of the rest of it, but .... ?
Has anyone tried it at all, a two blade Sensenitch as goes on a C-150, maybe?
Everybody relax just wondering out loud. Furiously digging a fox hole. :-)
Ron @ KFHU
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: New FireStar II Owner |
Brother Miller:
Welcome to the list... You are certainly well qualified, Sir.
I am what's left of Beauford, and I do my best to operate a FireFly with a
447.
For ratings, I currently hold a Florida driver's license backed up with a
moderately
oversized prostate.
The FS II is a sweetheart and I bet you will have a lot of fun with her;
Congrats.
You didn't mention your engine... so will assume you have either a 447 or
503 2-stroke Rotax.
Re your prop... 6,800 static sounds a tad high...6,800 is 447/503 redline
and only for one minute... so that setting will likely put you well over
redline on full throttle climb.... and the 2-strokes do need to climb wide
open to get the extra cooling from the rich mixture.
Most folks seem to like them set somewhere around 62 or 63 hundred
static.... which will let it run at somewhere just below redline
wide open in level flight. Having a little heavier prop loading will also
help out with your EGT's, which are likely to be running a bit
on the toasty side right now with that light prop loading.
There are some really good 2-strokers on this here list... and I don't claim
to be one of 'em... But if you haven't fooled around with these pesky
little
engines before, you are about to have a whole new world open before your
bewildered eyes... There is a 4-way devil dance between CHT, EGT, carb
setup and the IVO...all done on the edge of a razor blade. Once a delicate
truce is established among these warring parties, most of the two-stroke
people I know tend to tiptoe around and speak in hushed tones when near the
Rotax lest the sleeping dragon awake and exact some perverse
2-stroke vengeance upon their body or their wallet. Changes to any one of
the four factors is likely to cause a change in one or more of the others,
so
I am not sure how well a variable pitch prop would work... you could well
have some unintended consequences.
Might be worth a trip through the Kolb List archives to see what you can
find on this, or even calling some of the Rotax sales & service folks for
their
opinions. In the meantime, I don't think you would go wrong by backing
that IVO center screw out a bit and loading the engine up some... down below
redline anyway.
Worth what ye paid fer it...
2-steppin' beauford
FF-076
Brandon, FL
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:49 PM
Hello everybody, My name is Seth Miller I live in Ohio just south of
Medina. I recently purchased "GoTime's" FSII airplane.
Any input/advise would really be appreciated--------
Low and Slow FireStar II
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: New FireStar II Owner |
Hi Seth. Welcome
I am a previous owner of a firestar kxp with 337 and wood prop. Currently have
a rans s14, 503, ivo 3 blade. I agree with the idea that increasing pitch will
decrease egt only because it increases loading and not tuning. Want proof (get
ready for a blown engine), try a powered decent. Very easy to do wrong and i
have always been advised against it. I am a strong believer of two concepts though.
Recommeded carb jetting and a grand rapids eis. Then play with pitch as
much as you want and monitor for changes in egt and cht.
Now in my humble opinion, 6800 static is too high. It means you cant go full throttle
on takeoff without exceeding max rpm, therefore a wasted range of throttle.
I would want 6500 to 6800 on climb out with full throttle myself if i were
pitching for a climb prop ( i prefer about 6200 static to get 6500 on climbout.
For cruise pitch, maybe closer to 6200 on climbout( my preference for the
rans due to high vne).
On a legal note, i dont know if your registration is elsa or amatuer built. If
it is elsa, and faa finds out you ever had a in flight adjustable on it, they
can void the certificate. I only bring it up here because of the number of errors
i see on ads for sale as i shop for a kolbra or mark III, prefer xtra elsa.
Renee
Bas spellong blaned on ophone :)
On Sep 13, 2011, at 9:56 PM, "Beauford " <beauford173@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Brother Miller:
>
> Welcome to the list... You are certainly well qualified, Sir.
> I am what's left of Beauford, and I do my best to operate a FireFly with a
> 447.
>
> For ratings, I currently hold a Florida driver's license backed up with a
> moderately
> oversized prostate.
>
> The FS II is a sweetheart and I bet you will have a lot of fun with her;
> Congrats.
>
> You didn't mention your engine... so will assume you have either a 447 or
> 503 2-stroke Rotax.
>
> Re your prop... 6,800 static sounds a tad high...6,800 is 447/503 redline
> and only for one minute... so that setting will likely put you well over
> redline on full throttle climb.... and the 2-strokes do need to climb wide
> open to get the extra cooling from the rich mixture.
>
> Most folks seem to like them set somewhere around 62 or 63 hundred
> static.... which will let it run at somewhere just below redline
> wide open in level flight. Having a little heavier prop loading will also
> help out with your EGT's, which are likely to be running a bit
> on the toasty side right now with that light prop loading.
>
> There are some really good 2-strokers on this here list... and I don't claim
> to be one of 'em... But if you haven't fooled around with these pesky
> little
> engines before, you are about to have a whole new world open before your
> bewildered eyes... There is a 4-way devil dance between CHT, EGT, carb
> setup and the IVO...all done on the edge of a razor blade. Once a delicate
> truce is established among these warring parties, most of the two-stroke
> people I know tend to tiptoe around and speak in hushed tones when near the
> Rotax lest the sleeping dragon awake and exact some perverse
> 2-stroke vengeance upon their body or their wallet. Changes to any one of
> the four factors is likely to cause a change in one or more of the others,
> so
> I am not sure how well a variable pitch prop would work... you could well
> have some unintended consequences.
>
> Might be worth a trip through the Kolb List archives to see what you can
> find on this, or even calling some of the Rotax sales & service folks for
> their
> opinions. In the meantime, I don't think you would go wrong by backing
> that IVO center screw out a bit and loading the engine up some... down below
> redline anyway.
>
>
> Worth what ye paid fer it...
>
> 2-steppin' beauford
> FF-076
> Brandon, FL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 9:49 PM
>
>
> Hello everybody, My name is Seth Miller I live in Ohio just south of
> Medina. I recently purchased "GoTime's" FSII airplane.
>
> Any input/advise would really be appreciated--------
> Low and Slow FireStar II
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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