Kolb-List Digest Archive

Wed 09/28/11


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:35 AM - Re: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (Thom Riddle)
     2. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (Thom Riddle)
     3. 07:52 AM - Re: Kolb Firestar II for sale (Ozarkflyer)
     4. 08:10 AM - Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (Ozarkflyer)
     5. 08:57 AM - Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (Michael Welch)
     6. 10:45 AM - Re: Kolb Firestar II for sale (daamille)
     7. 12:14 PM - Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (stevesimmons@charter.net)
     8. 01:21 PM - Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (John Hauck)
     9. 01:56 PM - Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (chris davis)
    10. 02:27 PM - Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (ces308)
    11. 02:53 PM - Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (tkben002)
    12. 03:11 PM - Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (Ozarkflyer)
    13. 05:04 PM - Re: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (Thom Riddle)
    14. 05:24 PM - Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (ces308)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:35:15 AM PST US
    From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    Chris, Jabiru says to put the CHT spark plug ring sensors on the plug nearest the exhaust port, which is the hotter of the two spark plug locations. That is where mine are. Jabiru also states that the spark plug gasket that comes with the spark plug should be removed (temporarily) from the plug that gets the CHT ring, then put back on that plug after the CHT ring is in place. Thus, the CHT ring does not make direct contact with the head. It is sandwiched between the plug and the gasket. However, I remove the spark plug gasket and discard it, replacing it with the CHT sensor ring on that plug. My reason for doing that is three fold. One, the electrode location in the combustion chamber is somewhat important so adding the CHT ring AND the gasket moves it away from its intended location. Two, the CHT sensor gets direct contact with the cylinder head instead of being removed from it by the thickness of the gasket. Three, heat transfer between the head and plug depends upon contact area so adding a bit of thickness reduces this contact area. I've been doing this for a long time on all aircraft engines per other manufacturers' recommendations and what I learned in A&P school. At the Jabiru seminar I recently attended I asked Pete Krotje why they want the gasket between the CHT ring and the head. He said that there have been some cases of leaking around the CHT sensor ring when the gasket is removed. I suggested that that is probably being caused by overtorqueing the spark plugs, a common but bad practice. He agreed that that may be the cause, So, I intend to continue installing the CHT sensor rings on the exhaust side plug without the gasket on that plug, and torqueing properly. I also make sure that the ring to wire connection and the wire itself is laid down between the head fins to keep the junction exposure to airflow to a minimum. I am not sure how important any of these little differences are but the cumulative effect is probably measurable. Thom On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:19 PM, ces308 <ces308@ldaco.com> wrote: > > Thom.... > > Where are your cht sensors on you back cylinders?? I had one on the rear > plug and on eon the front plug not thinking it would make that much > difference,but it does...with the air blowing on the front with the sensor > it read 260....on the other side,air blowing in the same place ,but the > sensor on the rear plug,it read 301...I moved the right side to the front > plug and it now reads 270-280*....and I'm guessing my rocket that sticks up > about 12 in in front of that scoop could be making the 10* dif in temp...??? > you think??? > > Oh yeah...I did turn the carb a little bit more and it is now within a 100* > of each other...(EGT) > > chris ambrose > M3X/Jabiru A -2200 227.5 hrs > N327CS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353367#353367 > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 05:04:32 AM PST US
    From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    My BRS rocket is in the same relative position as all Jabiru engine Kolbs. No meaningful difference from side -to- side but mine has had the baffles/deflectors tweaked to get that result. Regardless of the cause, the cure is the same. Thom On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 9:16 PM, tkben002 <tkben002@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > Chris, > > Jabiru recommends that the cht probes are on the exhaust side plugs of each > cylinder. For us on our 2200 that would be the either front or back plugs > as the intake is the middle 2 on each side. I have a pretty good difference > from side to side on chts and I thought it could be because of the rocket > for brs also. If you see my above pic in an earlier post the rocket is in > front of my hotter side. > > I did not make any baffles yet as I did not get to fly much over the > weekend but I did make the static tube for the carb as recommended by Jabiru > Pacific and it lowered my EGT's by 100 degrees. But I still have some > testing to do. > > Travis Bennett > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353372#353372 > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:52:21 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kolb Firestar II for sale
    From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan@hotmail.com>
    Daryl Is your FS II still for sale? thx Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353414#353414


    Message 4


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    Time: 08:10:48 AM PST US
    Subject: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan@hotmail.com>
    area? I'm seriously considering a FS II but the only Kolb I've actually been next to is John Hauck's when he was passing through Arkansas a year or two ago. I'd like to visit with someone who owns one. What's the recommended transition for a C-172 pilot? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353416#353416


    Message 5


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    Time: 08:57:19 AM PST US
    From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    Larry, Why not get ahold of Dennis Long? He lives fairly close to you. Plus, he just learned to fly the MkIII that he bought earlier this year. Mike Welch On Sep 28, 2011, at 10:08 AM, Ozarkflyer wrote: > > area? I'm seriously considering a FS II but the only Kolb I've actually been next to is John Hauck's when he was passing through Arkansas a year or two ago. I'd like to visit with someone who owns one. What's the recommended transition for a C-172 pilot? > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353416#353416 > > > > > > > > > > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:45:55 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kolb Firestar II for sale
    From: "daamille" <jetborne@hotmail.com>
    Yes it is. Feel free to give me a call (number in the ad) if you are interested. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353439#353439


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:14:15 PM PST US
    From: stevesimmons@charter.net
    Subject: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    The only tail drager time i had before i bought a firefly was about 700 hours in a DC3, not much of a comparison, however I had a friend who owned a 7ac champ, after 35 to 40 to and landings i finally had enough confidence to crow hop the kolb; after about 4 or 5 hops I did one too many on a 5300 foot runway and had no choise but to do a trafic pattern. before I attempted to land I took it out and did some stalls and slow flight and finally landed with supprising ease. I think however there is nothing like proper transition training with a kolb mark iii WITH A COMPETENT INSTRUCTOR GOOD LUCK: On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Ozarkflyer wrote: > > area? I'm seriously considering a FS II but the only Kolb I've > actually been next to is John Hauck's when he was passing through > Arkansas a year or two ago. I'd like to visit with someone who owns > one. What's the recommended transition for a C-172 pilot? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353416#353416 > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 01:21:22 PM PST US
    From: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
    Subject: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    before I attempted to land I took it out and did some stalls and slow flight and finally landed with supprising ease. I think however there is nothing like proper transition training with a kolb mark iii WITH A COMPETENT INSTRUCTOR GOOD LUCK: The Kolb flies nothing like an SR-71. Establish stall speed on first flight, and keep it above that speed until you are back on earth. Folks stall Kolbs at 10 feet AGL and are surprised when they wipe out the main gear. Fly it like an airplane, taking into consideration it has very little inertia. Land it on the ground, not 10 feet up. Keep a good cross check on the ASI during the landing phase. john h mkIII Rock House, Oregon


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:56:08 PM PST US
    From: chris davis <capedavis@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    I agree with John H . and I d even suggest" WHEEL LANDING " if- you have experiance with them . The Kolb will do anything you ask as long as you kee p the speed above stall !-- Good luck=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A=0A=0A________ ________________________=0AFrom: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>=0ATo: ko lb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 4:18 PM=0ASubje ct: RE: Kolb-List: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri=0A=0A--> Kolb-Li st message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Abef ore I attempted to land I took it out and did some stalls and slow =0Afligh t and finally- landed with supprising ease. I think however there =0Ais n othing like- proper transition training with a kolb mark iii WITH A =0ACO MPETENT INSTRUCTOR GOOD LUCK:=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThe Kolb flies nothing like an SR-71.=0A=0AEstablish stall speed on first flight, and keep it above that s peed until you are back on earth.=0A=0AFolks stall Kolbs at 10 feet AGL and are surprised when they wipe out the main gear.=0A=0AFly it like an airpla ne, taking into consideration it has very little inertia.- Land it on the ground, not 10 feet up.- Keep a good cross check on the ASI during the l ===========


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:27:09 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
    Thom..Travis.. I was hoping thats how you got the 260* temp on the back cylinders..I am moving it back to the rear plug...all in all the deflector did lower the temp from 320 to 300,so I can live with that... Just a thought..( it's starting to hurt my little brain though) ,The front intake IS deeper on the left side (because the cylinders are back on that side) ...could that be a factor in the cooling??? chris ambrose M3X/Jabiru A-2200 N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353464#353464


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:53:14 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    From: "tkben002" <tkben002@bellsouth.net>
    I had thought of that also. I figured that the rocket possibly disrupted some airflow (minor) and that the duct on cylinders 1 and 3 was longer before the cylinder starts would have some effect overall on cooling. I have not made my baffles yet but I will start on one side and put the cht probes on both cylinders on the side so I can adjust the front and back at the same time and not worry about overheating either one. When I finish 1 side I will move on to the next side. I agree with Thom that "the cure is the same" that it is just going to take time and trial and error to get the correct baffling from front to back, but once it is done, it will be done and should not have to mess with it again. I do not remember if i posted this but when I moved my spark plug wires from in front of the baffle openings like in the picture a few posts back, to over the top of the ducts and out of the way, that my actual temperatures went up. I was a little suprised by this result but hopefully it will be easy to work thru to get the desired result. Travis Bennett Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353468#353468


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:11:25 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan@hotmail.com>
    Does Dennis Long monitor this forum? Where does he live and how can I contact him? Thanks for the responses. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353470#353470


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:04:07 PM PST US
    From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    The front intake IS deeper on the left side (because the cylinders are back on that side) ...could that be a factor in the cooling??? Chris, I have no idea, in fact I never noticed this. By deeper, do you meant top to bottom of opening or front to back? Thom On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 5:24 PM, ces308 <ces308@ldaco.com> wrote: > > Thom..Travis.. > > I was hoping thats how you got the 260* temp on the back cylinders..I am > moving it back to the rear plug...all in all the deflector did lower the > temp from 320 to 300,so I can live with that... > > Just a thought..( it's starting to hurt my little brain though) ,The front > intake IS deeper on the left side (because the cylinders are back on that > side) ...could that be a factor in the cooling??? > > chris ambrose > M3X/Jabiru A-2200 > N327CS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353464#353464 > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:24:22 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    From: "ces308" <ces308@ldaco.com>
    Thom... from the front of the scoop to the fins are deeper on the left side( cylinder set back) where the right side the fins are right at the front of the scoops.. chris ambrose Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353480#353480




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