Kolb-List Digest Archive

Sat 10/01/11


Total Messages Posted: 10



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:21 AM - Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (John Bickham)
     2. 07:55 AM - Re: Kolb Web Site (Dennis Thate)
     3. 12:03 PM - Re: Defective fuel pickup (Ron @ KFHU)
     4. 03:44 PM - Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (Frankd)
     5. 04:21 PM - Re: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (Thom Riddle)
     6. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (Thom Riddle)
     7. 06:25 PM - Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri (Ozarkflyer)
     8. 09:01 PM - Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners (Frankd)
     9. 11:03 PM - Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    10. 11:04 PM - Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:21:14 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    From: "John Bickham" <gearbender@bellsouth.net>
    Seems like you got some leads a lot closer and this may be too far to drive and not fit your timeline. There will be some Kolbs gathering at my place just north of Baton Rouge the weekend of Nov 11. Might be interesting for a C-172 driver to see what these planes can do with a short field. I used to own a C-172 too. There should be Kolbs from Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas. There should also be a Highlander from TX and a Rans from NM. More than welcome. Let me know if you need more details. -------- Thanks too much, John Bickham Mark III-C w/ 912UL St. Francisville, LA I know many pilots and a few true aviators. There is a distinct difference that I have the greatest respect for. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353691#353691


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:55:05 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Kolb Web Site
    From: "Dennis Thate" <retroman@frontier.com>
    Now that is pretty cool. http://www.kolbaircraft.com/ -------- Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern These flying machines are just a fad and will never catch on Unknown Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353697#353697


    Message 3


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    Time: 12:03:43 PM PST US
    From: "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net>
    Subject: Defective fuel pickup
    John I think the old adage where " I rather be lucky than good" proves itself yet again. I can tell you about my second flight in the terducktyle but then I may be banned even riding my Harley, suffice it to say I came back from a flight with only two nuts holding the c-430 motor mount and they were about 1/4 each threaded out, no locking nuts no nothing was between them and the tubes. It was the last time I ever let anyone work on that Ultralight, from then on it was only I and the damn thing was locked in the hanger. Yes the motor was canted about 30 degrees on the two remaining attach points. Could not see a thing behind but it did feel weird in the last 15 minutes of flight. ---- John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote: ============ Was surprised how small the mess was on the inlet screen. Very susceptible to blockage. I pull out of the bottom of my tank through a standard aviation mesh finger strainer, then through the facet pump which is lower than the bottom of the tank, and up through the fuel filter and into the engine driven pump on my 912. Have pumped around 15,500 gals through that system in the last 3,100+ hours without a problem. Can't remember when I did it, but I pulled the finger strainer a thousand hours or so ago. Found some pretty interesting stuff living on the strainer. Makes me wonder how I was able to get that much trash through the fuel filler. ;-) john h mkIII Rock House, Oregon From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ellery Batchelder Jr Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 7:07 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Defective fuel pickup I had the same problems in my first ultralight many years ago with only two 2.5 gallon tanks but it never left the neiborhood with so little gas onboard I would never use any screen or check valve inside a fuel tank system in anything that flys I like a gascolator much better Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Pike <richard@bcchapel.org> Sent: Thu, Sep 29, 2011 6:12 pm Subject: Kolb-List: Defective fuel pickup This last week end we had a failure of the fuel pickup on one gas tank of FSII N582EF. After landing, one tank had approx 1.5 gallons left, the other tank was full. Disassembling the fuel lines, hoses and the pickup, it was discovered that the fuel pickup would not allow any gas to pass through it. This is the in-tank fuel filter that California Power Systems sells as part #7129, and Aircraft Spruce sells as #05-01031. Further investigation revealed that this is not simply a fuel pickup, it is also a ball-check valve, and the ball was stuck. Taking the valve to the work bench and smacking the ball with a drift & hammer got it freed up, however I will be replacing it with a simple finger strainer type pickup, and the identical pickup from the other tank will be discarded and replaced with a simple finger strainer type pickup. In my opinion, this is a non-airworthy design. There is no reason to have a ball check valve as part of a fuel pickup. I realize that not having a ball check valve in the system can allow the fuel to drain back downhill from the carbs into the gas tank, but that is why they sell fuel pumps. Had the flight lasted 30 minutes longer, the outcome probably would have been a media event. The partially disassembled one is the one that stuck, I was trying to see if the ball check valve can be removed. Not readily. The other one is original. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353561#353561 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/p1200766_large_128.jpg <http://forums.matronics.com/files/p1200766_large_128.jpg> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List p://forums.matronics.com blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- kugelair.com


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:44:10 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    From: "Frankd" <FDucker@aol.com>
    Hi guys, Been reading the posts and working on my cooling at the same time. Over the past few months I've been struggling to get my CHT's below 360Deg. and EGT's below 1400.. Way too lean. I saw the post about the static port for the tube into the carb and did that after I spoke to Jim at Jabiru Pacific. when the tube was inserted into the air filter it apparently caused a negative pressure drop that kept the mixture lean.. Ok, fixed that. I've changed my main jet to 240 and needle jet to 2.85.. I put the baffle's on the front of the airscoops. I use the EIS that has 4 CHT's and EGT's . Today I flew and got 340deg in climb with 1350EGT's max. In cruise the rear left cylinder was hottest at 335Deg and EGT's were just under 1300. I'm getting there! I've included pics of the static port to the carb and also my current wing and tail angles . Finally getting to just fly the plane and not mess with it. If you guys have any other ideas, I'd love to know what works well. Tom, you said you use 250 main and 2.90 jet? Maybe I can go somewhat richer. Thanks FrankD Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353721#353721 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_lift_106.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_alignment_258.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_right_113.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_left_150.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/static_port_to_carb_991.jpg


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:21:41 PM PST US
    From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    FrankD, I know you said that Jabiru Pacific said to do the "static port" the way you show in your photo but ALL the Jabiru's I've ever seen or heard about have the float bowl vent (not static) connected to the inside of the air cleaner by way of a the end of the conical air filter. In other words, the tube from the float bowl vent goes into the end of the air cleaner so that the float bowl has the same air pressure as the inlet side of the carb. Not sure why Jabiru Pacific recommended you do it that way. I didn't hear anything about doing it that way from Pete Krotje two weeks ago in his seminar. Maybe that is an accepted alternate way of doing. Beats me. When I replaced the Bing jet needle with the Jabiru jet needle I changed the needle jet (cruise jet) to 280 and the main jet to the closest to recommended(220 to 250) by Jabiru that I had on hand, #255. Configured like this, at low altitude, my cruise EGT is right on the target 1325F. It gets richer as I climb to higher altitudes. Only during my first flight after this change did I still get a hotter than desired EGT during WOT climb at Vy. On subsequent flights, inexplicably, the WOT at Vy EGT was colder than target, so I might go to a bit lower number main jet, maybe. Thom On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Frankd <FDucker@aol.com> wrote: > > Hi guys, > > Been reading the posts and working on my cooling at the same time. > > Over the past few months I've been struggling to get my CHT's below 360Deg. > and EGT's below 1400.. Way too lean. > > I saw the post about the static port for the tube into the carb and did > that after I spoke to Jim at Jabiru Pacific. when the tube was inserted > into the air filter it apparently caused a negative pressure drop that kept > the mixture lean.. Ok, fixed that. > > I've changed my main jet to 240 and needle jet to 2.85.. > > I put the baffle's on the front of the airscoops. > > I use the EIS that has 4 CHT's and EGT's . > > Today I flew and got 340deg in climb with 1350EGT's max. > In cruise the rear left cylinder was hottest at 335Deg and EGT's were just > under 1300. > > I'm getting there! > I've included pics of the static port to the carb and also my current wing > and tail angles . > > Finally getting to just fly the plane and not mess with it. > > If you guys have any other ideas, I'd love to know what works well. > > Tom, you said you use 250 main and 2.90 jet? Maybe I can go somewhat > richer. > > Thanks > FrankD > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353721#353721 > > > Attachments: > > http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_lift_106.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_alignment_258.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_right_113.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_left_150.jpg > http://forums.matronics.com//files/static_port_to_carb_991.jpg > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:23:34 PM PST US
    From: Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    FrankD, Forgot to mention in previous email. In these photos, it looks to me like the deflectors at the top of the duct are vertical. This could be an optical illusion since the photos is taken head on. In any case, they should be angle back(at the bottom) roughly 45 degrees or so, not vertical and the one over the front cylinder should be shorter than the one over the aft cylinder to allow air flow to reach the aft cylinder deflector. These are just general recommendations so if your CHTs are in line the way you have them, then great! As I stated before, my CHTs typically run 270-290F in cruise. You may or may not get them that low. As long as they stay in the green, that is good. Thom On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Thom Riddle <riddletr@gmail.com> wrote: > FrankD, > I know you said that Jabiru Pacific said to do the "static port" the way > you show in your photo but ALL the Jabiru's I've ever seen or heard about > have the float bowl vent (not static) connected to the inside of the air > cleaner by way of a the end of the conical air filter. In other words, the > tube from the float bowl vent goes into the end of the air cleaner so that > the float bowl has the same air pressure as the inlet side of the carb. Not > sure why Jabiru Pacific recommended you do it that way. I didn't hear > anything about doing it that way from Pete Krotje two weeks ago in his > seminar. Maybe that is an accepted alternate way of doing. Beats me. > > When I replaced the Bing jet needle with the Jabiru jet needle I changed > the needle jet (cruise jet) to 280 and the main jet to the closest to > recommended(220 to 250) by Jabiru that I had on hand, #255. Configured like > this, at low altitude, my cruise EGT is right on the target 1325F. It gets > richer as I climb to higher altitudes. Only during my first flight after > this change did I still get a hotter than desired EGT during WOT climb at > Vy. On subsequent flights, inexplicably, the WOT at Vy EGT was colder than > target, so I might go to a bit lower number main jet, maybe. > > Thom > > > On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Frankd <FDucker@aol.com> wrote: > >> >> Hi guys, >> >> Been reading the posts and working on my cooling at the same time. >> >> Over the past few months I've been struggling to get my CHT's below >> 360Deg. and EGT's below 1400.. Way too lean. >> >> I saw the post about the static port for the tube into the carb and did >> that after I spoke to Jim at Jabiru Pacific. when the tube was inserted >> into the air filter it apparently caused a negative pressure drop that kept >> the mixture lean.. Ok, fixed that. >> >> I've changed my main jet to 240 and needle jet to 2.85.. >> >> I put the baffle's on the front of the airscoops. >> >> I use the EIS that has 4 CHT's and EGT's . >> >> Today I flew and got 340deg in climb with 1350EGT's max. >> In cruise the rear left cylinder was hottest at 335Deg and EGT's were >> just under 1300. >> >> I'm getting there! >> I've included pics of the static port to the carb and also my current >> wing and tail angles . >> >> Finally getting to just fly the plane and not mess with it. >> >> If you guys have any other ideas, I'd love to know what works well. >> >> Tom, you said you use 250 main and 2.90 jet? Maybe I can go somewhat >> richer. >> >> Thanks >> FrankD >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353721#353721 >> >> >> >> >> Attachments: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/wing_lift_106.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/tail_alignment_258.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_right_113.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/baffle_left_150.jpg >> http://forums.matronics.com//files/static_port_to_carb_991.jpg >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:25:25 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Any Kolbs in the Arkansas/ So. Missouri
    From: "Ozarkflyer" <lragan@hotmail.com>
    John I've been keeping an eye on your planned event and if doable plan on trying to make it down there. I was fortunate enough to run into Dennis Long and Larry Duncan with their Mk III's today at a small fly-in less than thirty miles from home. First Kolb's I've seen around here since John Hauck stopped for fuel on one of his cross-country trips. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353738#353738


    Message 8


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    Time: 09:01:11 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Thom, Chris or Jabiru owners
    From: "Frankd" <FDucker@aol.com>
    Hi Thom, thanks for the feedback. The top deflectors are about 60Deg angled back.. Since the back cylinder was the hottest, i took the front deflector off today , to try to balance out the temp difference. I would love to be under 300 Deg CHT in cruise, thats my goal. So I think I'm going to try slightly bigger jets and continue to work the baffles. If I can get the radio noise down and a real Trim tab for the elevator, that would be the best of all worlds. Fun, Fun.. thanks for all feedback, if anyone else has the jabiru magic set-up, I'd love to hear about it. Rgds Frankd Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=353748#353748


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:03:16 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Kolb-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Kolb-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Kolb-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. 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The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Kolb-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Kolb-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Kolb-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Kolb-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Kolb-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Kolb-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Kolb-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Kolb ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kolb-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kolb-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:04:43 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Kolb-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Kolb-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Kolb-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Kolb-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Kolb-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Kolb-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Kolb-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Kolb-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Kolb-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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