---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 10/14/11: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:42 AM - Oil (API-TC) (SS568) 2. 04:40 AM - Re: Oil (API-TC) (Dana Hague) 3. 04:41 AM - Foam struts (Ted) 4. 06:41 AM - Re: Oil (API-TC) (SS568) 5. 07:03 AM - Re: Re: Oil (API-TC) (b young) 6. 07:25 AM - Re: Re: Oil (API-TC) (Richard Girard) 7. 09:41 AM - WTT: Yamaha WR250R for Kolb (Luke) 8. 10:11 AM - Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA (Luke) 9. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: Oil (API-TC) (Dana Hague) 10. 10:41 AM - Re: Oil (API-TC) (SS568) 11. 11:02 AM - Re: Re: Oil (API-TC) (John Hauck) 12. 11:15 AM - Re: Oil (API-TC) (Eugene Zimmerman) 13. 12:27 PM - Re: Re: Oil (API-TC) (Richard Girard) 14. 04:48 PM - Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA (mburdge39) 15. 05:00 PM - quieting those control wires (Lanny Fetterman) 16. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: This may offend some (russ kinne) 17. 06:56 PM - Re: Re: Oil (API-TC) (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 18. 07:03 PM - Re: quieting those control wires (FIRESTARII) 19. 07:14 PM - Re: WTT: Yamaha WR250R for Kolb (FIRESTARII) 20. 07:33 PM - Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA (FIRESTARII) 21. 10:29 PM - Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (SAILNROCK) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:42:07 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Oil (API-TC) From: "SS568" I have downloaded the ops manual for my Rotax 582. All it says about the oil to use is to use API TC. Now I certainly do not want to start a "brand to use" debate. Just what does the TC encompass. Such as blended or straight Multi viscosity? Can it be labeled for motorcycle with no mention of aircraft 2cy. TIA David d. -------- Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354976#354976 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:17 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Oil (API-TC) At 06:37 AM 10/14/2011, SS568 wrote: > >I have downloaded the ops manual for my Rotax 582. All it says about the >oil to use is to use API TC. >Now I certainly do not want to start a "brand to use" debate. >Just what does the TC encompass. >Such as blended or straight >Multi viscosity? >Can it be labeled for motorcycle with no mention of aircraft 2cy. It's a industry specification for air cooled 2-stroke oil. Not multi viscosity, that's a 4 stroke oil thing. Pennzoil aircooled oil is one brand of API TC oil, whereas the Pennzoil marine is not (the marine oil is TC-W3 which is for water cooled engines). Could be sold as a bike oil but I believe most bike oils are synthetic now. -Dana -- When Columbus came to America, there were no taxes, no debts, and no pollution. The women did all the work while the men hunted or fished all day. Ever since then, a bunch of idiotic do-gooders have been trying to "improve" the place. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:41:17 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Foam struts From: Ted To cover the foam on the struts you can go to a model plane shop and get coverite fabric. It has heat sensitive glue on it. It can be painted or comes in colors. Has anyone been blocked by barracuda(?). Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:41:58 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) From: "SS568" I went by Oriely parts store this morning. They have only one brand (not house oil). It said "exceeds the TC rating. It is a blended oil. Does it hurt to mix blended or unblended as long as they are rated TC? This brand or blended may not be available a few months down the road. DD -------- Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354987#354987 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:03 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) I went by Oriely parts store this morning. They have only one brand (not house oil). It said "exceeds the TC rating. It is a blended oil. Does it hurt to mix blended or unblended as long as they are rated TC? This brand or blended may not be available a few months down the road. DD -------- Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some oils are not compatable with each other and will jell up in the oil tank causing oil starvation,,, you should try and remove all the old oil before adding the new. boyd young ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:55 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) From: Richard Girard I sent this to the group in June; Awhile back I posted a request for information about the compatibility of Pennzoil Air Cooled two stroke oil and Pennzoil Marine two stroke oil. The question came up again because a customer's airplane with a 582 has Air Cooled in both the injection and rotary valve reservoirs and my stock of Air Cooled is nearly gone. This morning I called Shell's technical hot line (Shell Oil owns the Pennzoil brand). The answer is, Air Cooled *CANNOT* be mixed with Marine or any other oil that meets the TC-W3 specs. The additive packages are incompatible and will cause coagulation. So, the systems have to be purged of the Air Cooled oil when a change over is made (Air Cooled is no longer available once stocks are gone, if they aren't already). So, if you or your customers are using Pennzoil Air Cooled you might want to start thinking about the necessary service to purge the system(s). Rick Girard On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 9:00 AM, b young wrote: > > > I went by Oriely parts store this morning. They have only one brand (not > house oil). > It said "exceeds the TC rating. It is a blended oil. Does it hurt to mix > blended or unblended as long as they are rated TC? > > This brand or blended may not be available a few months down the road. > > DD > > -------- > Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > some oils are not compatable with each other and will jell up in the oil > tank causing oil starvation,,, you should try and remove all the old oil > before adding the new. > > boyd young > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:15 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: WTT: Yamaha WR250R for Kolb From: "Luke" This might be a long shot but thought I'd throw it out there anyway: I have a 2008 Yamaha WR250R dual sport motorcycle w/ ~9000 miles. Bike is equipped with heavy duty handguards, racks and saddle bags, skidplate, tank bag, and small saddle bags. This is the ultimate minimalist touring bike and can go pretty much anywhere. It will take you through pretty much anything you can throw at it offroad, and still cruise comfortably at 70MPH on the highway. It's fuel injected, and gets about 70mpg. Oil has been changed regularly and the valves don't need to be checked until 26k miles. New chain and front sprocket. Bike is located in Denver, CO but am willing to haul it for the right deal. Would like to trade straight across for a Kolb Firefly/Firestar. -------- "The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355006#355006 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:35 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA From: "Luke" BTW: Love the olive drab paint job! -------- "The LORD is a warrior; the LORD is his name." Exodus 15:3 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355012#355012 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:59 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) At 10:23 AM 10/14/2011, Richard Girard wrote: >I sent this to the group in June; > >Awhile back I posted a request for information about the compatibility of >Pennzoil Air Cooled two stroke oil and Pennzoil Marine two stroke oil. The >question came up again because a customer's airplane with a 582 has Air >Cooled in both the injection and rotary valve reservoirs and my stock of >Air Cooled is nearly gone. >This morning I called Shell's technical hot line (Shell Oil owns the >Pennzoil brand). The answer is, Air Cooled CANNOT be mixed with Marine or >any other oil that meets the TC-W3 specs. The additive packages are >incompatible and will cause coagulation. So, the systems have to be purged >of the Air Cooled oil when a change over is made (Air Cooled is no longer >available once stocks are gone, if they aren't already). >So, if you or your customers are using Pennzoil Air Cooled you might want >to start thinking about the necessary service to purge the system(s). Shell seems to have replaced the Air Cooled Outdoor oil with the new "Aeroshell Sport 2" 2-stroke oil. Whether this is the same oil with a new name, or something new, is unclear, as is whether they are compatible. I'm trying to contact Shell to ask, but their website is messed up. -Dana -- New Yorkers like to boast that if you can survive in New York, you can survive anywhere. But if you can survive anywhere, why live in New York? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) From: "SS568" Awhile back I posted a request for information about the compatibility of Pennzoil Air Cooled two stroke oil and Pennzoil Marine two stroke oil. The question came up again because a customer's airplane with a 582 has Air Cooled in both the injection and rotary valve reservoirs and my stock of Air Cooled is nearly gone. This morning I called Shell's technical hot line (Shell Oil owns the Pennzoil brand). The answer is, Air CooledCANNOTbe mixed with Marine or any other oil that meets the TC-W3 specs. The additive packages are incompatible and will cause coagulation. So, the systems have to be purged of the Air Cooled oil when a change over is made (Air Cooled is no longer available once stocks are gone, if they aren't already). So, if you or your customers are using Pennzoil Air Cooled you might want to start thinking about the necessary service to purge the system(s). Rick Girard Rick, with all due respect the above is still confusing. Mixing tc-w with any air cooled is a no no. Not only the mixing but using water cooled oil in an air cool is the problem. Now I suppose mixing could cause coagulation, but it should not ever be used any way. Since I am not sure of what is in the reservoir now I will drain the old out. Now the statement about air cooled (tc) is no longer available, so what is the intended new oil? By the way is mixing brands allowed as long as it is TC oil? DD -------- Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355023#355023 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:27 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) Not only the mixing but using water cooled oil in an air cool is the problem. DD Folks: Not arguing any of the above reference brands, types, etc. We used Walmart TCW-3 for well over 1,000 hours in our 582, 503, 447, and all the other air and watercooled two strokes, from weed whackers to kickers, with nary a problem. Some of that oil was 15 years old. My question is: How does a two stroke know if the oil is air cooled or water cooled? john h Window Rock, Arizona ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:23 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) From: "Eugene Zimmerman" Ok guys, here is a resource that you may find helpful regarding your 2-stroke oil questions. http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Portals/0/2%20stroke%20oil%20specs.pdf Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355026#355026 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:27:20 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) From: Richard Girard Same experience here, John. My only contact with Pennzoil Air Cooled in the rotary valve reservoir of my 582 and in both reservoirs of a customers 582. Whatever difference TC-W3 makes except the coagulation issue, I have no idea. Rick On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 1:00 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > Not only the mixing but using water cooled oil in an air cool is the > problem. > > DD > > > Folks: > > Not arguing any of the above reference brands, types, etc. > > We used Walmart TCW-3 for well over 1,000 hours in our 582, 503, 447, and > all the other air and watercooled two strokes, from weed whackers to > kickers, with nary a problem. Some of that oil was 15 years old. > > My question is: How does a two stroke know if the oil is air cooled or > water cooled? > > john h > Window Rock, Arizona > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:22 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA From: "mburdge39" Thanks Luke! I took a liking to it as well. When it is nice out I am getting taxi time in the Firefly, airtime in the Cub. When it is raining outside I am reading Stick & Rudder by Wolfgang Langewiesche & Powered Ultralight Flying by Dennis Pagen. My feet are starting to link up with my brain! The Kolb "clang" is a bit annoying, any quick, easy tips for quieting those control wires? -------- Mike Firefly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355053#355053 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:14 PM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: quieting those control wires >Mike, Once your airborne they don`t rattle anymore. ;-) Do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: This may offend some From: russ kinne A detail - but just to keep the List prim & proper -- perhaps say "because they are urinated"? On Oct 13, 2011, at 10:26 PM, Bob wrote: > > Yup ....Inappropriate for the list and in general.......Pan Am world is long gone .....I only care that my cabin crew is the best in the event of mishap and that they don't pull the evacuation chute cause they are pissed........... > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- From: FIRESTARII > Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2011 1:44 PM > To: kolb-list@matronics.com > Subject: Kolb-List: Re: This may offend some > > > :D Guys I spent 7 years flying for a regional airline and the only "Hot Dishes" I ever saw came out of the microwave!!!! It's not what it used to be :( Picture a bus driver except with longer hours and WAY LESS PAY and your getting the idea! > > -------- > Low and Slow FireStar II > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=354944#354944 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:32 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) Here is another good report on two stroke oil: _www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm_ (http://www.sea-doo.net/techarticles/oil/oil.htm) Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ In a message dated 10/14/2011 2:15:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, etzimm@gmail.com writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Eugene Zimmerman" Ok guys, here is a resource that you may find helpful regarding your 2-stroke oil questions. http://www.7thgear.net/7thGear/Portals/0/2%20stroke%20oil%20specs.pdf Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355026#355026 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:36 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: quieting those control wires From: "FIRESTARII" :D Your right about them being quiet once airborne but, Dang! They sure do drive me nuts on landing and taxi in the grass! Doesn't do much to make pax new to little airplanes very comfortable either, nor does it inspire alot of confidence. I once had a well qualified commercial pilot/A&P/IA tell me "Real Airplanes" don't rattle like that....I nearly knocked the man outta the "Arm Chair" he flies all the time! I told him "Real Airplanes" actually fly, "Arm Chairs" do not! [Laughing] He was my father by the way. Still love him to death though [Wink] -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355064#355064 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:41 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: WTT: Yamaha WR250R for Kolb From: "FIRESTARII" :D I got a WR450 that I'd trade in a heart beat for any Kolb, flying or not! Chances are I would live longer and have more fun doing so as Kolb's are way safer than any motorcycle I have ever ridden. So far my FSII has not sent me to the hospital once...motorcycle, well I am on a first name basis with the wonderful EMS folks in my town! Fly safe everybody [Wink] -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355065#355065 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:42 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA From: "FIRESTARII" :D High guys I am not tooting my Horne her please don't take it the wrong way. I am a ME-CFII, ATP, and Advanced Ground Instructor and have very near nine thousand hours in every thing you can dream up and some you've probably never even heard of, I have been very fortunate. :D I only say this because I live in Ohio just south of CLE near CAK. If you have access to an airplane regardless of the type and it has dual controls I would be more than happy to donate my time to help any Kolber transition. I will even take you up in my FSII, but I'm not gonna let ya fly her! I love her way too much for that. I am also open to helping out with BFR's, IPC's, transition training or any thing that you may need. I would also be open to initial training but not for free as the demands on my time are too significant for that. Mind you it's not for the hours like a new CFI. I could care less about that it's simply about helping the folks who feel they need it and to make the skies safer for all of us. Feel free to contact me any time day or night if you need help or get stuck. I have had a wonderful group of guys help me along the way and I simply want to return the favor. Thanks to every body on this list and fly safe. Thanks, Seth A. Miller -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355068#355068 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:09 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 From: "SAILNROCK" Hi All Has any one made flaps or done flaperons like on the firefly? On the Firestar 11 And if so how did it come out and with what benefits? Thanks Bob Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355079#355079 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.