---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/15/11: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:45 AM - Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (racerjerry) 2. 04:55 AM - Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (Dana Hague) 3. 05:13 AM - Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (Ozarkflyer) 4. 05:24 AM - Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (william sullivan) 5. 05:29 AM - Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (FIRESTARII) 6. 06:36 AM - Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (Ozarkflyer) 7. 06:38 AM - Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA (racerjerry) 8. 06:55 AM - Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (Richard Pike) 9. 07:20 AM - Re: Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (b young) 10. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (Dana Hague) 11. 08:59 AM - Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (racerjerry) 12. 09:18 AM - Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (David Kulp) 13. 09:52 AM - Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (Richard Pike) 14. 10:28 AM - oil-- thanks (frank goodnight) 15. 11:30 AM - Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (chris davis) 16. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (Dana Hague) 17. 11:56 AM - Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) (Dana Hague) 18. 01:56 PM - Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (Eugene Zimmerman) 19. 03:28 PM - Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA (mburdge39) 20. 04:54 PM - Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 (John Hauck) 21. 05:43 PM - Re: Oil (API-TC) (SS568) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:45:17 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 From: "racerjerry" Yes, years ago I duplicated the Firefly flaperon design into my Firestar II during construction. My main purpose was to qualify for FAR part 103; just as the Firefly did with its shorter wings and not for a performance gain. I had shortened my Firestar wings by eliminating the wing spar spliced in tube sections toward the wingtips. The graph in Appendix 2 of AC 103-7 Determining Power Off Stall Speed allowed a much better lift factor for a wing with flaps. I was really a newbie pilot at the time and did not notice much difference in performance with flaps or without. Also, I have not flown my Firestar in a very long time, so I cannot give you much in the way of performance data. I suspect that If I cleaned up the airplane with wing strut and gear leg fairings that a difference may have been more noticeable. I did experiment once with the flaperons adjusted to reflex them up in flight and that seemed to improve cruise speeds somewhat but probably not worth the effort. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355087#355087 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:21 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Kolb-List: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) Here's a short video of two Kolbs and a gyro fying to a fly-in in eastern Connecticut. -Dana -- Press any key to continue or any other key to quit... ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:32 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) From: "Ozarkflyer" Link doesn't work for me. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355093#355093 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:09 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) - Nice video.- I had no problem with the link.- Keep them coming. -do not archive ------------------------- --------------------- Bill Sulliv an --- On Sat, 10/15/11, Dana Hague wrote: From: Dana Hague Subject: Kolb-List: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) Here's a short video of two Kolbs and a gyro fying to a fly-in in eastern C onnecticut. -Dana -- Press any key to continue or any other key to quit... le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:02 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 From: "FIRESTARII" :D Thanks for posting this as it is something I have put a great deal of thought into and an even greater lack of effort! I once saw a FSII listed on Barnstormers with flaps and the guys claim to fame was that it was the "slowest flying Kolb in the US". I have no idea weather that is true or not. Most GA airplanes I have flown show a significant improvement in lift with the flaps in the 10 to 20 degree range and any thing more than that just increases drag to allow for a steeper approach angle. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure thats exactly what the Cessna POH's say. For me personally, based on my pseudo dangerous grass strip I have at my farm I see a substantial benefit from both the increased lift as well as the steeper approach angle! Simply because it's one way in and one way out with trees on the west end and power lines on the other. I have big plans of a full on restoration and re power of my FSII this winter and I will be incorporating flaps if I can do so safely and legally. Can you say 65HP Hirth :D I would be curious to hear from the Mark III guys and any other Kolber's with flaps if they feel the flaps are a worth while addition to an already great flying airplane. Fly safe everybody! -------- Low and Slow FireStar II Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355096#355096 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:35 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) From: "Ozarkflyer" I couldn't hyper-link it the first time so I copy and pasted and it wouldn't link. After I posted I came back and tried again and success. Best of all, what a great video and music. Thanks for sharing. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355102#355102 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA From: "racerjerry" Lots of good advice here, but I would much prefer for you to have dual training in a Mark III. Just remember that because of the high thrust line, very light weight and draggy airframe, when you chop power; be ready to get the stick FORWARD or the nose will come UP and forward airspeed will go down IMMEDIATELY. Do yourself a favor and fly the Firefly all the way to the ground with some power, especially in the beginning, lest you retract the landing gear. The Firefly is a sweet flying airplane but does not land like a Cub. -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355103#355103 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:20 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 From: "Richard Pike" FIRESTARII wrote: > :D Thanks for posting this as it is something I have put a great deal of thought into and an even greater lack of effort! I once saw a FSII listed on Barnstormers with flaps and the guys claim to fame was that it was the "slowest flying Kolb in the US". I have no idea weather that is true or not. Most GA airplanes I have flown show a significant improvement in lift with the flaps in the 10 to 20 degree range and any thing more than that just increases drag to allow for a steeper approach angle. I could be wrong but I am pretty sure thats exactly what the Cessna POH's say. For me personally, based on my pseudo dangerous grass strip I have at my farm I see a substantial benefit from both the increased lift as well as the steeper approach angle! Simply because it's one way in and one way out with trees on the west end and power lines on the other. I have big plans of a full on restoration and re power of my FSII this winter and I will be incorporating flaps if I can do so safely and legally. Can you say 65HP Hirth :D I would be curious to hear from the Mark III guys and any other Kolber's with flaps if they feel the flaps are a worth while addition to an already great flying airplane. Fly safe everybody! IMO, the flaps lower the stall speed as much as VG's and can be used in combination for best effect. However they also create a real change in lift distribution on the wing and cranking in the flaps requires either retrimming the airplane A LOT, or holding about twice as much stick back pressure. They do allow a much steeper approach angle and shorten the roll out, as the airplane will not float once you round out. The best way to get out of the field better is obviously more power. However, I am not terribly impressed with the 65 Hirth, the few we have had around here have been pretty meh. One friend of mine has had to helicore the spark plug holes because the thing has vibrated the originals out. If you do go the 65HP route, Kolb says you ought to beef up the upper fuselage structure, it was not designed for the torque of a 65 hp engine. Here is how we did it on FS N582EF: http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/582%20Mods.html If we had it to do over again, a dual carb 503 would have been simpler. On the plus side, the skinny FSII cruises happily at 65 mph with the 582 loafing at 4800 rpm and burning under 3 gph. At which rpm it ought to go forever without needing an overhaul. And it does pop off the ground quick and go up at an insane climb angle. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355105#355105 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:26 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 I would be curious to hear from the Mark III guys and any other Kolber's with flaps if they feel the flaps are a worth while addition to an already great flying airplane. Fly safe everybody! -------- Low and Slow FireStar II >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>. I did some experimenting with the flaps, my mkiii has 0, 20, 40 deg settings, during take off 20 deg allowed a 100 ft shorter takeoff roll, 0 and 40 were about the same roll for takeoff, for landing 20 feels just right for me, I have practiced 40 deg landings,,, and it would seem that the steep approach would only be necessary in an emergency, with 20 deg and idle, I can scare most ga pilots with my approach angle with only 20 deg, if I were to redesign the flap handle set up, I think I would build a multi position bracket, designed like the elevator trim in the mkiiic. that way I could have more selections available, I would add 10 and 30 deg, and maybe experiment with reflex, boyd young mkiii utah ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:24 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) At 09:34 AM 10/15/2011, Ozarkflyer wrote: > >I couldn't hyper-link it the first time so I copy and pasted and it >wouldn't link. After I posted I came back and tried again and >success. Best of all, what a great video and music. Thanks for sharing. After you posted I went back and made it clickable. -Dana -- Computers run on smoke. If it leaks out, they don't work. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:06 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) From: "racerjerry" Where is the Chester ultralight field located? -------- Jerry King Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355116#355116 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:29 AM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) Looks like a fun day, Dana. What engine is in the gyro? He pretty much changes the landscape when he does a to. Some of the area I fly is pretty unforgiving, but yours wins the prize!! Better keep that Cuyuna tuned up! Think you might fly around a bit and take some vids in a couple of weeks. The colors should be spectacular. Thanks for posting it. Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK On 10/15/2011 7:52 AM, Dana Hague wrote: > > Here's a short video of two Kolbs and a gyro fying to a fly-in in > eastern Connecticut. > > > > -Dana > > -- > Press any key to continue or any other key to quit... > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:53 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 From: "Richard Pike" byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c wrote: > > I did some experimenting with the flaps, my mkiii has 0, 20, 40 deg > settings, during take off 20 deg allowed a 100 ft shorter takeoff roll, > 0 and 40 were about the same roll for takeoff, for landing 20 feels just > right for me, I have practiced 40 deg landings,,, and it would seem > that the steep approach would only be necessary in an emergency, with 20 > deg and idle, I can scare most ga pilots with my approach angle with only > 20 deg, if I were to redesign the flap handle set up, I think I would > build a multi position bracket, designed like the elevator trim in the > mkiiic. that way I could have more selections available, I would add 10 > and 30 deg, and maybe experiment with reflex, > > boyd young mkiii > > utah I am very pleased with being able to put the flaps in multiple positions, even reflex. With the current setup, max is about 35 degrees, and that seems plenty. Since my place is a very short strip with "go around" not being a good option at all, I always land with full flaps. Actually, I always land everywhere with full flaps, because that is what I am used to, and what you are used to doing is what you do best. Pictures and details here: http://www.bcchapel.org/pages/0003/pg3.htm -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355123#355123 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:28:28 AM PST US From: frank goodnight Subject: Kolb-List: oil-- thanks Hi All, Thanks to everyone that responded to my request for info about oil. It's nice to know people on this list!! Frank Goodnight Firestar 2 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:53 AM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) Nice video thank you----- and--- I really liked the Music ! !!!!=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from c rash building Firefly=0A=0AFrom: william sullivan =0ATo: kolb-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, October 15, 2011 8:21 AM =0ASubject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolbs in Connecticut (video)=0A=0A- Nice video .- I had no problem with the link.- Keep them coming.=0A=0A-do not ar chive =0A---------------------- ------------------------ Bi ll Sullivan=0A=0A--- On Sat, 10/15/11, Dana Hague w rote:=0A=0A=0A>From: Dana Hague =0A>Subject: Kolb-Li st: Kolbs in Connecticut (video)=0A>To: kolb-list@matronics.com=0A>Date: Sa turday, October 15, 2011, 7:52 AM=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Kolb-List message posted b y: Dana Hague Here's a short video of two Kolbs and a gyro fying to a fly-in in eastern Connecticut.-Dana--Press any key to continue or any other key to qusp;----> http================= ======================== == ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:02 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) At 11:56 AM 10/15/2011, racerjerry wrote: > >Where is the Chester ultralight field located? It's just south of the Chester-Hadlyme ferry, across from Gillette Castle (both of which you can see in the video). Not on the chart. -Dana -- End rush hour traffic now! Legalize vehicular weaponry! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:02 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Kolbs in Connecticut (video) At 12:15 PM 10/15/2011, David Kulp wrote: > >Looks like a fun day, Dana. What engine is in the gyro? He pretty much >changes the landscape when he does a to. > >Some of the area I fly is pretty unforgiving, but yours wins the >prize!! Better keep that Cuyuna tuned up! Think you might fly around a >bit and take some vids in a couple of weeks. The colors should be spectacular. The gyro has a Subaru, and boy, is it loud! Yeah, a lot of Connecticut is pretty unforgiving. I usually try to pick a route that keeps me near some kind of field in case of trouble. Last year was spectacular, color wise... this year is a bit muted due to the storms, but still pretty nice. -Dana -- End rush hour traffic now! Legalize vehicular weaponry! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:18 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 On Oct 15, 2011, at 1:26 AM, SAILNROCK wrote: > > Hi All > Has any one made flaps or done flaperons > like on the firefly? On the Firestar 11 > And if so how did it come out and with what benefits? > Thanks Bob > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355079#355079 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:28:10 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: New Firefly owner looking for Mark III training in PA From: "mburdge39" I am very grateful to the previous owner for giving me a DVD of my Firefly in flight & landings with the ASI and stick in the video frame. All of his landings were at a fairly steep approach angle(compared to the Cub) and 60 with half flaps(0, half, and full on the Firefly), his roundout would reduce his speed to around 55, and the wheels would touch between 45-50. His landings were very consistent with the airspeed. All landings and takeoffs he used the half flap setting. Once again this video he gave me is worth it's weight in gold to me as it confirms everything everyone has said about flying it to the ground. Thanks again, Mike -------- Mike Firefly Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355151#355151 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:54:23 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Flaps or falparon on the Firestar 11 Gene Z/Gang: The last photo was shot at Homer's, wasn't it. Looks good. john h mkIII Checotah, Oklahoma and heading for hauck's holler, alabama. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:29 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Oil (API-TC) From: "SS568" Thanks Bill for that article. And thanks to all that responded. I will use only API-TC. After all that is exactly what the manual says. David d. -------- Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=355161#355161 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.