Today's Message Index:
----------------------
0. 12:37 AM - Please Support The Lists... (Matt Dralle)
1. 02:27 AM - Re: Some success at last (Pat Ladd)
2. 02:43 AM - Re: Some success at last (Pat Ladd)
3. 03:49 AM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague)
4. 04:30 AM - Re: Some success at last (william sullivan)
5. 04:44 AM - Re: Some success at last (Michael Welch)
6. 05:13 AM - Re: Where to buy two stroke oil? (Clyde MacQuarrie)
7. 06:16 AM - Re: Some success at last (John Hauck)
8. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - the plane I want! (John Hauck)
9. 06:36 AM - Re: Some success at last (Michael Welch)
10. 07:14 AM - Re: Some success at last (Pat Ladd)
11. 07:37 AM - P-factor, maybe this will help, maybe not! (Lanny Fetterman)
12. 08:27 AM - Re: Some success at last (robert bean)
13. 08:47 AM - Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Tom Stephens)
14. 08:54 AM - Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Tom Stephens)
15. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (John Hauck)
16. 09:23 AM - Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Tom Stephens)
17. 09:41 AM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague)
18. 09:41 AM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague)
19. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Dana Hague)
20. 11:05 AM - Re: Some success at last (Richard Girard)
21. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Phil)
22. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Robert Laird)
23. 01:36 PM - Re: FireFly - the plane I want! (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
24. 01:53 PM - Re: Some success at last (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
25. 03:11 PM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague)
26. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
27. 05:44 PM - Re: Some success at last (Richard Girard)
28. 06:07 PM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague)
29. 06:25 PM - Re: Some success at last (kinne russ)
30. 07:57 PM - Re: Some success at last (Danny)
31. 08:40 PM - Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please? (Dan Breitigam)
Message 0
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Subject: | Please Support The Lists... |
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There
are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Your Contributions
alone keep these services up and running.
Please make your Contribution today at:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
or by dropping a personal check in the mail to:
Matt Dralle / Matronics
581 Jeannie Way
Livermore CA 94550
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
John,
your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font
and blue in colour..
Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere?
Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?.
Pat
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
<<when you are in a climb, the prop disk is no longer perpendicular to
the air flow>>
Really? I know I may be behind on the learning curve but could someone
explain this to me.
That means that someone in a vertical climb has the airflow approaching
from 90 degrees to the direction of travel which is obviously not so.
Curious
Pat
It seems to me that the airflow is always (apparently) approaching
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
At 05:40 AM 11/17/2011, Pat Ladd wrote:
><<when you are in a climb, the prop disk is no longer perpendicular to the
>air flow>>
>
>Really? I know I may be behind on the learning curve but could someone
>explain this to me.
>
>That means that someone in a vertical climb has the airflow approaching
>from 90 degrees to the direction of travel which is obviously not so.
Pat, this is the usual explanation of P-Factor. If the engine is set so
the shaft is parallel to the airflow at cruise (prop disk perpendicular to
the airflow; the usual condition), then when you're flying slower (as in
climb) and at a greater angle of attack, the shaft is no longer parallel to
the airflow, i.e. the prop disk is no longer perpendicular. In this case
the difference in blade AOA between the blade going up and the blade going
down causes an asymmetric thrust, or P-Factor.
-Dana
--
In general, liberalism consists of A & B getting together to see what they
can make C do for poor old D.
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
- I saw the same as you.-
do not archive
-------------------------
--------------- Bill Sullivan
--- On Thu, 11/17/11, Pat Ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com> wrote:
From: Pat Ladd <pj.ladd@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last
=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AJohn,=0Ayour post is coming through too large to fit
on the =0Ascheme, large font and blue in colour..=0AHave you inadvertently
changed a setting =0Asomewhere?=0AAnyone else with the same problem or is
=========================0A
========0A=0A
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
Pat,
Yes, I receive (most of) John H's post with really big fonts, lately.
I thought he was just just thoughtful for the "poor sight crowd".
(that was a joke) But those 1/2" tall letters do make it easier for me
to read....and that's NOT a joke.
What is weird is, 'your emails', and several other guys' emails come
in SUPER tiny....I mean really "squint and focus"
tiny. And what's worse, is sometimes they also come in light blue, too.
Very hard to read light blue "warning label
sized print".
Obviously, someone has let loose the font gremlins recently.
Mike Welch
On Nov 17, 2011, at 4:25 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
> John,
> your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font
and blue in colour..
> Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere?
> Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?.
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Where to buy two stroke oil? |
I found Castrol TTS at the local Wal-Mart here in Nova Scotia, Canada
for $28.00 Plus taxes. Clyde MacQuarrie.
From: Richard Girard
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Where to buy two stroke oil?
"Two stroke AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 2 is the first aviation quality oil
that has been specifically developed for Light Sport, Very Light and
Ultralight 2-stroke engines such as the ROTAX=AE air and water-cooled
series engines."
http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/products/lubricants/piston_eng
ine_oils/sports_plus2/
Rick Girard
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com> wrote:
Next topic: What oil do you use, why, and where can you get
quantities, and at what price?
Castrol TTS cannot be found (discontinued).
My bike mechanic (Powersports Honda) recommended Amsoil hp
injector ($35/gal) and Amsoil interceptor ($39/gal, higher temperature
additives for "power valves"). I told him it wasn't for marine, snow or
road transport but for an ultralight, and I wanted all the obvious
qualities involved in feeding my two-stroke engine.
He said HE could no longer get Castrol TTS from either of his
suppliers, either, and suggested Amsoil would be the best.
Phil H.
_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
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Subject: | Some success at last |
John,
your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font and
blue in colour..
Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere?
Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?.
Pat
Patrick/Kolbers:
I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I haven't changed my Outlook
settings, that I know of. That doesn't mean the gremlin didn't change it
for me. Do you think visiting porn sites could do that?
I'll try and write smaller and blacker. ;-)
Our weather has changed from 64F yesterday when I got up to 46F this
morning. The rain is gone. Maybe I can get some flying done if it doesn't
get too windy.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - the plane I want! |
Have any of you or others flown the FireStar and FireFly? I'm curious as to
how they compare.
Tom Stephens
Tom S/Kolbers:
Both aircraft fly extremely well. They are easy to fly and will not bite
you as long as you keep the airspeed above stall and below VNE.
The Firestar has a 27 foot wing span and it 22 feet long, compared to the 22
foot wing span of the Firefly that is 19.5 feet long.
Compared to the longer winged Kolbs, the FF is very much a little hot rod
like its big brother the Slingshot. It has a quick roll rate and is
extremely agile. Does well in rough air.
Basically, all models of Kolb aircraft have the same easy, solid quality of
flight.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
> Do you think visiting porn sites could do that?
> john h
> mkIII
> Titus, Alabama
John H,
hahahaha......hahahahaha....
Doesn't seem to have affected my posts. Eeecks!!
Mike (still chuckling)
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
<<then when you're flying slower (as in climb) and at a greater angle of
attack>>
Thanks Dana,
Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to
climb and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the
airflow direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is
called the apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case
it would appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore
the P factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it?
Still curious
Pat
Message 11
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Subject: | P-factor, maybe this will help, maybe not! |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-factor
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
The answer to yaw problems is to drive a puny airplane. I can fly mine
with my feet flat on the floor. :)
(not that I actually do)
P- factor, as in, "I really need to land soon"
BB
do not archive
On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Pat Ladd wrote:
<<then when you're flying slower (as in climb) and at a greater angle of
attack>>
Thanks Dana,
Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to
climb and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the
airflow direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is
called the apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case
it would appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore
the P factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it?
Still curious
Pat
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit confusing.
I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying lessons (in a
Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a perfect example of a
FireFly I'd like to have.
The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW), there is
no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a plane tied up
outside, or tow it to the airport.
I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But with
the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole plane with
wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time now, but finally
realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly would be perfect in
that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I might be able to find space
in someone's hangar for the folded bird.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358269#358269
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
For those asking where I got Terry's photo: more Kolb photos contained within: http://www.flickr.com/photos/massey_aero/sets/72157623939871980/with/4551780446/
Bill Dougherty is the photographer.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358271#358271
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
If you like the Challenger that much, a Kolb would blow you completely away.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
John,
Oh great, twist the knife ;-)
I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart. I really like being right out
in front. The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool, that's what
I like in being right out there.
So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254? Jack
Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under. I only weigh 160 dressed,
so I figure it should work fine? Not looking for super performance.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358276#358276
Message 17
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Subject: | Some success at last |
John, your last post came through in reasonable sized text, but the lines
don't wrap so I have to scroll back and forth.
Never heard of porn sites changing text size... though they might change
the size of other things :)
do not archive
-Dana
At 09:13 AM 11/17/2011, John Hauck wrote:
> Patrick/Kolbers:
>
>I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I haven't changed my Outlook
>settings, that I know of. That doesn't mean the gremlin didn't change it
>for me. Do you think visiting porn sites could do that?
>
>I'll try and write smaller and blacker. ;-)
>
>Our weather has changed from 64F yesterday when I got up to 46F this
>morning. The rain is gone. Maybe I can get some flying done if it
>doesn't get too windy.
>
>john h
>mkIII
>Titus, Alabama
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that
counts cannot necessarily be counted. -Albert Einstein
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
If you increase power to climb so you keep the same airspeed, then AOA is
the same, and the amount of P-factor (zero or otherwise) should not change.
-Dana
At 10:12 AM 11/17/2011, Pat Ladd wrote:
><<then when you're flying slower (as in climb) and at a greater angle of
>attack>>
>
>Thanks Dana,
>
>Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to climb
>and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the airflow
>direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is called the
>apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case it would
>appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore the P
>factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it?
>
>Still curious
>
>Pat
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that
counts cannot necessarily be counted. -Albert Einstein
Message 19
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
Tom,
You could do what I do... keep your Kolb folded, in an enclosed trailer, at
the airport. I pay the outdoor tiedown rate, the plane is protected, and I
don't have to tow it every time I fly (but it's easy to bring it home to
work on it, or for the winter).
I've never flown a Challenger, but I get the impression from those who have
that the Kolbs are MUCH nicer flying planes.
-Dana
At 11:44 AM 11/17/2011, Tom Stephens wrote:
>The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW),
>there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a
>plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport.
>
>I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But
>with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole
>plane with wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time
>now, but finally realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly
>would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I
>might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird.
--
Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um....
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain
the same?
Rick
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote:
> John, your last post came through in reasonable sized text, but the lines
> don't wrap so I have to scroll back and forth.
>
> Never heard of porn sites changing text size... though they might change
> the size of other things :)
>
> do not archive
>
> -Dana
>
> At 09:13 AM 11/17/2011, John Hauck wrote:
>
>
> P
>
> atrick/Kolbers:
>
>
> I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I haven't changed
> my Outlook settings, that I know of. That doesn't mean the gremlin
> didn't change it for me. Do you think visiting porn sites could do
> that?
>
>
> I'll try and write smaller and blacker.
> ;-)
>
>
> Our weather has changed from 64F yesterday when I got up to 46F this
> morning. The rain is gone. Maybe I can get some flying done
> if it doesn't get too
> windy.
>
>
> john h
>
>
> mkIII
>
>
> Titus,
> Alabama
>
>
> www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forums.matronics.com
> - List Contribution Web Site -
> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> --
> Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that
> counts cannot necessarily be counted. -Albert Einstein
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
I have ordered a Firefly from Travis and I am in the process of mapping out
my winter building schedule. I will be flying in the Spring. I plan on kee
ping it completely 103 legal. This will be my 2nd Kolb.
-
Phil H.
--- On Thu, 11/17/11, Tom Stephens <tom@planeaday.com> wrote:
From: Tom Stephens <tom@planeaday.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
John,
Oh great, twist the knife ;-)
I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart.- I really like being righ
t out in front.- The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool,
that's what I like in being right out there.
So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254?
- Jack Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under.- I only weigh
160 dressed, so I figure it should work fine?- Not looking for super per
formance.
Tom
--------
Tom Stephens
www.planeaday.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358276#358276
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
Tom --
I, too, did my UL training in a 2-seat Challenger. Later I had to chance
to fly two other single-seat Challengers. I've also flown a Firefly, and I
currently own a MkIIIC.
Everyone has their own opinion, but I can tell you unequivocally that the
Firefly is a ~much~ better UL than the Challenger, in virtually every
category. The Challenger is a good aircraft -- and much better than the
first UL that I owned, a Quicksilver MXL -- but the Firefly is just
better... controls are lighter, and the frame and construction is much
stiffer and stronger. The visibility is better, too, in the Firefly. I
wish I'd known about the FF before I bought that Quicksilver. YMMV.
-- Robert
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Tom Stephens <tom@planeaday.com> wrote:
>
> It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit
> confusing. I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying
> lessons (in a Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a
> perfect example of a FireFly I'd like to have.
>
> The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW),
> there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a
> plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport.
>
> I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But
> with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole
> plane with wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time
> now, but finally realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly
> would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I
> might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird.
>
> Tom
>
> --------
> Tom Stephens
> www.planeaday.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358269#358269
>
>
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - the plane I want! |
In a message dated 11/16/2011 4:46:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tom@planeaday.com writes:
I got permission from the photographer of this plane to list. Is this a
member's plane? I like it!
Tom/All
That would be Terry Frantz from the Lancaster, PA area.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 24
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
In a message dated 11/17/2011 11:27:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
slyck@frontiernet.net writes:
P- factor, as in, "I really need to land soon"
OK. Good definition. Nobody laughed at that comment yet, so I will
Hahahahahah.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
Message 25
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain
>the same?
The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative
wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you
increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will
also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop
shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
-Dana
--
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! |
You beat me to that one john I was going to say the same thing
I have flown a couple different challengers and the Kolb Airplanes are a
better airplane
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one!
like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one.
Tom
--------
om Stephens
If you like the Challenger that much, a Kolb would blow you completely away
.
john h
kIII
itus, Alabama
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Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you
now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.
Rick
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote:
> At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>
> Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain
> the same?
>
>
> The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative
> wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you
> increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will
> also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop
> shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
>
> -Dana
> --
> Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
> society.
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 28
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
You're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up by the
same amount. If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have to be the
same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).
Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts aft
relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable angles.
In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus higher
AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.
-Dana
At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you
>now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.
>
>Rick
>
>On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague
><<mailto:d-m-hague@comcast.net>d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote:
>At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>>Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain
>>the same?
>The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative
>wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you
>increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will
>also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop
>shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
>
>-Dana
>--
>Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society.
>
>
>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>
>.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>
>="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>
>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>
>tp://forums.matronics.com
>
>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>--
>Zulu Delta
>Mk IIIC
>Thanks, Homer GBYM
>
>It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
> - Groucho Marx
>
>
>www.aeroelectric.com
><http://www.buildersbooks.com>www.buildersbooks.com
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
--
Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock.
Message 29
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
Tell me why I have to hold right rudder when applying power for
takeoff? If there's no P=factor on the ground ?
On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Dana Hague wrote:
> You're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up
by the same amount. If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have
to be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).
>
> Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts
aft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable
angles.
>
> In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus
higher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.
>
> -Dana
>
> At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>> The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as
you now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net>
wrote:
>> At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:
>>>
>>> Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor
remain the same?
>>
>> The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the
relative wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no
P-factor. If you increase power to climb while maintaining the same
airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning that the airflow is
still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-factor.
>>
>> -Dana
>> --
>> Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on
society.
>>
>>
>>
>> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
>>
>> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
>>
>> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>>
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>>
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Zulu Delta
>> Mk IIIC
>> Thanks, Homer GBYM
>>
>> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
>> - Groucho Marx
>>
>>
>>
>> www.aeroelectric.com
>> www.buildersbooks.com
>> www.homebuilthelp.com
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> Email Forum -
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
>> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> - List Contribution Web Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>
>
> --
> Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock.
>
>
>
Message 30
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Subject: | Re: Some success at last |
Helical propwash... In most planes you soon outrun most of it and can let o
ff on the rudder correction.- Then one more stab on them when the tail co
mes up.- I think that is the gyroscope influence.=0A=0A=0A- DjD=0A=0A=0A_
_______________________________=0AFrom: kinne russ <russk50@gmail.com>=0ATo
: kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:23 PM=0ASu
bject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last=0A=0A=0ATell me why I have to ho
ld right rudder when applying -power for takeoff? If there's no P=facto
r on the ground ? =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Dana Hague wrote
:=0A=0AYou're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up
by the same amount.- If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have t
o be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).=0A>
=0A>Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts a
ft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable angles.=0A
>=0A>In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus h
igher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.=0A>=0A>-Dana=0A>=0A>At 08:42
PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:=0A>=0A>The minute you start to climb
the relative wind direction changes as you now have an upward vector and P
factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.=0A>>=0A>>Rick=0A>>=0A>>On Thu, Nov 17,
2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote: =0A>>At 02:02 P
M 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: =0A>>Dana, "If you increase power to cl
imb", how exactly does P factor remain the same?=0A>>The flight condition w
e were talking about was cruise when the relative wind is parallel to the p
ropeller shaft, so there's no P-factor.- If you increase power to climb w
hile maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning
that the airflow is still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-facto
r.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-Dana =0A>>-- =0A>>Clothes make the man.- Naked people h
ave little or no influence on society. =0A>>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
=0A>>.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com =0A>>="_blank">www.hom
ebuilthelp.com =0A>>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>get
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =0A>>tp://forums.m
atronics.com =0A>>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>=0A>>
=0A>>-- =0A>>Zulu Delta=0A>>Mk IIIC=0A>>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A>>=0A>>It isn'
t necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.=0A>>
- - Groucho Marx=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>www.aeroelectric.com www.builder
sbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution-M
att Dralle, List Admin.Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
r?Kolb-List- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forums.matronics.com/- L
ist Contribution Web Site --Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronic
s.com/contribution =0A>=0A>--=0A>Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you f
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D
Message 31
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Subject: | Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please? |
Looking forward to it Phil. I've only flown once so far (last week), but plan
to fly maybe once or twice a week.
Dan
Do not archive
Excellent! How often do you fly? I'll be looking forward to some trips over there
by air to get together to fly; you, me, Bob G, Scott K...
Phil
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