---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/17/11: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:37 AM - Please Support The Lists... (Matt Dralle) 1. 02:27 AM - Re: Some success at last (Pat Ladd) 2. 02:43 AM - Re: Some success at last (Pat Ladd) 3. 03:49 AM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague) 4. 04:30 AM - Re: Some success at last (william sullivan) 5. 04:44 AM - Re: Some success at last (Michael Welch) 6. 05:13 AM - Re: Where to buy two stroke oil? (Clyde MacQuarrie) 7. 06:16 AM - Re: Some success at last (John Hauck) 8. 06:25 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - the plane I want! (John Hauck) 9. 06:36 AM - Re: Some success at last (Michael Welch) 10. 07:14 AM - Re: Some success at last (Pat Ladd) 11. 07:37 AM - P-factor, maybe this will help, maybe not! (Lanny Fetterman) 12. 08:27 AM - Re: Some success at last (robert bean) 13. 08:47 AM - Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Tom Stephens) 14. 08:54 AM - Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Tom Stephens) 15. 09:10 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (John Hauck) 16. 09:23 AM - Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Tom Stephens) 17. 09:41 AM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague) 18. 09:41 AM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague) 19. 09:56 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Dana Hague) 20. 11:05 AM - Re: Some success at last (Richard Girard) 21. 11:08 AM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Phil) 22. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Robert Laird) 23. 01:36 PM - Re: FireFly - the plane I want! (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 24. 01:53 PM - Re: Some success at last (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com) 25. 03:11 PM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague) 26. 03:40 PM - Re: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 27. 05:44 PM - Re: Some success at last (Richard Girard) 28. 06:07 PM - Re: Some success at last (Dana Hague) 29. 06:25 PM - Re: Some success at last (kinne russ) 30. 07:57 PM - Re: Some success at last (Danny) 31. 08:40 PM - Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please? (Dan Breitigam) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:37:05 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Kolb-List: Please Support The Lists... Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Matronics Email List Fund Raiser month. There are some very nice incentive gifts to choose from as well! Your Contributions alone keep these services up and running. Please make your Contribution today at: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by dropping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics 581 Jeannie Way Livermore CA 94550 Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:27:56 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last John, your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font and blue in colour.. Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere? Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?. Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:19 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last <> Really? I know I may be behind on the learning curve but could someone explain this to me. That means that someone in a vertical climb has the airflow approaching from 90 degrees to the direction of travel which is obviously not so. Curious Pat It seems to me that the airflow is always (apparently) approaching ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:07 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last At 05:40 AM 11/17/2011, Pat Ladd wrote: ><air flow>> > >Really? I know I may be behind on the learning curve but could someone >explain this to me. > >That means that someone in a vertical climb has the airflow approaching >from 90 degrees to the direction of travel which is obviously not so. Pat, this is the usual explanation of P-Factor. If the engine is set so the shaft is parallel to the airflow at cruise (prop disk perpendicular to the airflow; the usual condition), then when you're flying slower (as in climb) and at a greater angle of attack, the shaft is no longer parallel to the airflow, i.e. the prop disk is no longer perpendicular. In this case the difference in blade AOA between the blade going up and the blade going down causes an asymmetric thrust, or P-Factor. -Dana -- In general, liberalism consists of A & B getting together to see what they can make C do for poor old D. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:30:50 AM PST US From: william sullivan Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last - I saw the same as you.- do not archive ------------------------- --------------- Bill Sullivan --- On Thu, 11/17/11, Pat Ladd wrote: From: Pat Ladd Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last =0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0AJohn,=0Ayour post is coming through too large to fit on the =0Ascheme, large font and blue in colour..=0AHave you inadvertently changed a setting =0Asomewhere?=0AAnyone else with the same problem or is =========================0A ========0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last From: Michael Welch Pat, Yes, I receive (most of) John H's post with really big fonts, lately. I thought he was just just thoughtful for the "poor sight crowd". (that was a joke) But those 1/2" tall letters do make it easier for me to read....and that's NOT a joke. What is weird is, 'your emails', and several other guys' emails come in SUPER tiny....I mean really "squint and focus" tiny. And what's worse, is sometimes they also come in light blue, too. Very hard to read light blue "warning label sized print". Obviously, someone has let loose the font gremlins recently. Mike Welch On Nov 17, 2011, at 4:25 AM, Pat Ladd wrote: > John, > your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font and blue in colour.. > Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere? > Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?. > > Pat > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:23 AM PST US From: Clyde MacQuarrie Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Where to buy two stroke oil? I found Castrol TTS at the local Wal-Mart here in Nova Scotia, Canada for $28.00 Plus taxes. Clyde MacQuarrie. From: Richard Girard Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Where to buy two stroke oil? "Two stroke AeroShell Oil Sport Plus 2 is the first aviation quality oil that has been specifically developed for Light Sport, Very Light and Ultralight 2-stroke engines such as the ROTAX=AE air and water-cooled series engines." http://www.shell.com/home/content/aviation/products/lubricants/piston_eng ine_oils/sports_plus2/ Rick Girard On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Phil wrote: Next topic: What oil do you use, why, and where can you get quantities, and at what price? Castrol TTS cannot be found (discontinued). My bike mechanic (Powersports Honda) recommended Amsoil hp injector ($35/gal) and Amsoil interceptor ($39/gal, higher temperature additives for "power valves"). I told him it wasn't for marine, snow or road transport but for an ultralight, and I wanted all the obvious qualities involved in feeding my two-stroke engine. He said HE could no longer get Castrol TTS from either of his suppliers, either, and suggested Amsoil would be the best. Phil H. _blank">www.aeroelectric.com .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:16:43 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Some success at last John, your post is coming through too large to fit on the scheme, large font and blue in colour.. Have you inadvertently changed a setting somewhere? Anyone else with the same problem or is it me?. Pat Patrick/Kolbers: I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I haven't changed my Outlook settings, that I know of. That doesn't mean the gremlin didn't change it for me. Do you think visiting porn sites could do that? I'll try and write smaller and blacker. ;-) Our weather has changed from 64F yesterday when I got up to 46F this morning. The rain is gone. Maybe I can get some flying done if it doesn't get too windy. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:25:33 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - the plane I want! Have any of you or others flown the FireStar and FireFly? I'm curious as to how they compare. Tom Stephens Tom S/Kolbers: Both aircraft fly extremely well. They are easy to fly and will not bite you as long as you keep the airspeed above stall and below VNE. The Firestar has a 27 foot wing span and it 22 feet long, compared to the 22 foot wing span of the Firefly that is 19.5 feet long. Compared to the longer winged Kolbs, the FF is very much a little hot rod like its big brother the Slingshot. It has a quick roll rate and is extremely agile. Does well in rough air. Basically, all models of Kolb aircraft have the same easy, solid quality of flight. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last From: Michael Welch > Do you think visiting porn sites could do that? > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama John H, hahahaha......hahahahaha.... Doesn't seem to have affected my posts. Eeecks!! Mike (still chuckling) ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:14:49 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last <> Thanks Dana, Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to climb and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the airflow direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is called the apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case it would appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore the P factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it? Still curious Pat ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:01 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: P-factor, maybe this will help, maybe not! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-factor ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:23 AM PST US From: robert bean Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last The answer to yaw problems is to drive a puny airplane. I can fly mine with my feet flat on the floor. :) (not that I actually do) P- factor, as in, "I really need to land soon" BB do not archive On Nov 17, 2011, at 10:12 AM, Pat Ladd wrote: <> Thanks Dana, Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to climb and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the airflow direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is called the apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case it would appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore the P factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it? Still curious Pat ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:25 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! From: "Tom Stephens" It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit confusing. I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying lessons (in a Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a perfect example of a FireFly I'd like to have. The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW), there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport. I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole plane with wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time now, but finally realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird. Tom -------- Tom Stephens www.planeaday.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358269#358269 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:42 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! From: "Tom Stephens" For those asking where I got Terry's photo: more Kolb photos contained within: http://www.flickr.com/photos/massey_aero/sets/72157623939871980/with/4551780446/ Bill Dougherty is the photographer. Tom -------- Tom Stephens www.planeaday.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358271#358271 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:12 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. Tom -------- Tom Stephens If you like the Challenger that much, a Kolb would blow you completely away. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:04 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! From: "Tom Stephens" John, Oh great, twist the knife ;-) I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart. I really like being right out in front. The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool, that's what I like in being right out there. So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254? Jack Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under. I only weigh 160 dressed, so I figure it should work fine? Not looking for super performance. Tom -------- Tom Stephens www.planeaday.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358276#358276 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:15 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Some success at last John, your last post came through in reasonable sized text, but the lines don't wrap so I have to scroll back and forth. Never heard of porn sites changing text size... though they might change the size of other things :) do not archive -Dana At 09:13 AM 11/17/2011, John Hauck wrote: > Patrick/Kolbers: > >I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I haven't changed my Outlook >settings, that I know of. That doesn't mean the gremlin didn't change it >for me. Do you think visiting porn sites could do that? > >I'll try and write smaller and blacker. ;-) > >Our weather has changed from 64F yesterday when I got up to 46F this >morning. The rain is gone. Maybe I can get some flying done if it >doesn't get too windy. > >john h >mkIII >Titus, Alabama > >www.aeroelectric.com >www.buildersbooks.com >http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -- Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -Albert Einstein ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:19 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last If you increase power to climb so you keep the same airspeed, then AOA is the same, and the amount of P-factor (zero or otherwise) should not change. -Dana At 10:12 AM 11/17/2011, Pat Ladd wrote: ><attack>> > >Thanks Dana, > >Humm!. Not completely happy with that. If you have enough power to climb >and NOT slow up, what happens then? As far as I can see the airflow >direction in relation to the plane (what in sailing circles is called the >apparent wind) is still directly on the nose. In that case it would >appear that it is a matter of airspeed, not attitude. Therefore the P >factor should change as you throttle back in the cruise. Does it? > >Still curious > >Pat > >www.aeroelectric.com >www.buildersbooks.com >http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -- Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted. -Albert Einstein ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:00 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! Tom, You could do what I do... keep your Kolb folded, in an enclosed trailer, at the airport. I pay the outdoor tiedown rate, the plane is protected, and I don't have to tow it every time I fly (but it's easy to bring it home to work on it, or for the winter). I've never flown a Challenger, but I get the impression from those who have that the Kolbs are MUCH nicer flying planes. -Dana At 11:44 AM 11/17/2011, Tom Stephens wrote: >The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW), >there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a >plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport. > >I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But >with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole >plane with wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time >now, but finally realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly >would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I >might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird. -- Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the other, er, um.... ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:19 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last From: Richard Girard Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain the same? Rick On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Dana Hague wrote: > John, your last post came through in reasonable sized text, but the lines > don't wrap so I have to scroll back and forth. > > Never heard of porn sites changing text size... though they might change > the size of other things :) > > do not archive > > -Dana > > At 09:13 AM 11/17/2011, John Hauck wrote: > > > P > > atrick/Kolbers: > > > I apologize for the inconvenience. However, I haven't changed > my Outlook settings, that I know of. That doesn't mean the gremlin > didn't change it for me. Do you think visiting porn sites could do > that? > > > I'll try and write smaller and blacker. > ;-) > > > Our weather has changed from 64F yesterday when I got up to 46F this > morning. The rain is gone. Maybe I can get some flying done > if it doesn't get too > windy. > > > john h > > > mkIII > > > Titus, > Alabama > > > www.aeroelectric.comwww.buildersbooks.comwww.homebuilthelp.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forums.matronics.com > - List Contribution Web Site - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin.http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that > counts cannot necessarily be counted. -Albert Einstein > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:08:44 AM PST US From: Phil Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! I have ordered a Firefly from Travis and I am in the process of mapping out my winter building schedule. I will be flying in the Spring. I plan on kee ping it completely 103 legal. This will be my 2nd Kolb. - Phil H. --- On Thu, 11/17/11, Tom Stephens wrote: From: Tom Stephens Subject: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! John, Oh great, twist the knife ;-) I used to kart race, now I have a vintage kart.- I really like being righ t out in front.- The 'shadow' video I put on our home page is soooo cool, that's what I like in being right out there. So what ARE the chances of being able to keep a FireFly legally under 254? - Jack Hart has an MZ34 on his, and says it's well under.- I only weigh 160 dressed, so I figure it should work fine?- Not looking for super per formance. Tom -------- Tom Stephens www.planeaday.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358276#358276 le, List Admin. le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:53 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! From: Robert Laird Tom -- I, too, did my UL training in a 2-seat Challenger. Later I had to chance to fly two other single-seat Challengers. I've also flown a Firefly, and I currently own a MkIIIC. Everyone has their own opinion, but I can tell you unequivocally that the Firefly is a ~much~ better UL than the Challenger, in virtually every category. The Challenger is a good aircraft -- and much better than the first UL that I owned, a Quicksilver MXL -- but the Firefly is just better... controls are lighter, and the frame and construction is much stiffer and stronger. The visibility is better, too, in the Firefly. I wish I'd known about the FF before I bought that Quicksilver. YMMV. -- Robert On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Tom Stephens wrote: > > It was brought to my attention (appreciate it!) that my subject was a bit > confusing. I cannot buy a plane right now, I am still taking flying > lessons (in a Challenger). I found the photo of Terry's plane and is a > perfect example of a FireFly I'd like to have. > > The problem I have been having is that with our 2 airports (nice BTW), > there is no affordable hangar space, which means I have to either leave a > plane tied up outside, or tow it to the airport. > > I like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. But > with the fuselage covered, rather than a tube, I'd have to cover the whole > plane with wing covers. I've wanted to build an airplane for a long time > now, but finally realized I just don't have the time. Thus the FireFly > would be perfect in that I can tow it to the field. And if I'm lucky, I > might be able to find space in someone's hangar for the folded bird. > > Tom > > -------- > Tom Stephens > www.planeaday.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358269#358269 > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:20 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: FireFly - the plane I want! In a message dated 11/16/2011 4:46:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, tom@planeaday.com writes: I got permission from the photographer of this plane to list. Is this a member's plane? I like it! Tom/All That would be Terry Frantz from the Lancaster, PA area. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:29 PM PST US From: WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last In a message dated 11/17/2011 11:27:27 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, slyck@frontiernet.net writes: P- factor, as in, "I really need to land soon" OK. Good definition. Nobody laughed at that comment yet, so I will Hahahahahah. Bill Varnes Original Kolb FireStar Audubon NJ Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:53 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: >Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain >the same? The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-factor. -Dana -- Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! From: Ellery Batchelder Jr You beat me to that one john I was going to say the same thing I have flown a couple different challengers and the Kolb Airplanes are a better airplane Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Thu, Nov 17, 2011 12:10 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: FireFly - Someday, I'd like one like this one! like the Challenger I am flying so much that I'd love to have one. Tom -------- om Stephens If you like the Challenger that much, a Kolb would blow you completely away .. john h kIII itus, Alabama - -= -- Please Support Your Lists This Month -- -= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE Gifts!) - -= November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Click on -= the Contribution link below to find out more about -= this year's Terrific Free Incentive Gifts provided -= by: -= -= * AeroElectric www.aeroelectric.com -= * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com -= * HomebuiltHELP www.homebuilthelp.com - -= List Contribution Web Site: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -= Thank you for your generous support! - -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. - -======================== -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:55 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last From: Richard Girard The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch. Rick On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: > > Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain > the same? > > > The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative > wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you > increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will > also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop > shaft, i.e. still no P-factor. > > -Dana > -- > Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on > society. > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:07:56 PM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last You're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up by the same amount. If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have to be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight). Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts aft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable angles. In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus higher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase. -Dana At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: >The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you >now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch. > >Rick > >On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague ><d-m-hague@comcast.net> wrote: >At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: >>Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain >>the same? >The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative >wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you >increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will >also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop >shaft, i.e. still no P-factor. > >-Dana >-- >Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. > > >_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > >.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > >="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > >_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > >get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > >tp://forums.matronics.com > >_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > >-- >Zulu Delta >Mk IIIC >Thanks, Homer GBYM > >It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > >www.aeroelectric.com >www.buildersbooks.com >http://www.matronics.com/contribution >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -- Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:52 PM PST US From: kinne russ Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last Tell me why I have to hold right rudder when applying power for takeoff? If there's no P=factor on the ground ? On Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Dana Hague wrote: > You're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up by the same amount. If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have to be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight). > > Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts aft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable angles. > > In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus higher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase. > > -Dana > > At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: >> The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch. >> >> Rick >> >> On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote: >> At 02:02 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: >>> >>> Dana, "If you increase power to climb", how exactly does P factor remain the same? >> >> The flight condition we were talking about was cruise when the relative wind is parallel to the propeller shaft, so there's no P-factor. If you increase power to climb while maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-factor. >> >> -Dana >> -- >> Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society. >> >> >> >> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com >> >> .com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com >> >> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com >> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Zulu Delta >> Mk IIIC >> Thanks, Homer GBYM >> >> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. >> - Groucho Marx >> >> >> >> www.aeroelectric.com >> www.buildersbooks.com >> www.homebuilthelp.com >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> Email Forum - >> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - >> http://forums.matronics.com >> - List Contribution Web Site - >> -Matt Dralle, List Admin. >> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> > > -- > Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you find a rock. > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:58 PM PST US From: Danny Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last Helical propwash... In most planes you soon outrun most of it and can let o ff on the rudder correction.- Then one more stab on them when the tail co mes up.- I think that is the gyroscope influence.=0A=0A=0A- DjD=0A=0A=0A_ _______________________________=0AFrom: kinne russ =0ATo : kolb-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 8:23 PM=0ASu bject: Re: Kolb-List: Some success at last=0A=0A=0ATell me why I have to ho ld right rudder when applying -power for takeoff? If there's no P=facto r on the ground ? =0A=0A=0A=0AOn Nov 17, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Dana Hague wrote :=0A=0AYou're climbing, you have an upward vector, but the plane pitches up by the same amount.- If the airspeed is the same, then Cl and AOA have t o be the same to generate the same lift (equal to the plane's weight).=0A> =0A>Actually the above isn't _exactly_ true, as the gravity vector shifts a ft relative to the plane, but the effect is small for reasonable angles.=0A >=0A>In a normal climb, of course, you're flying slower than cruise, thus h igher AOA, and P-factor does in fact increase.=0A>=0A>-Dana=0A>=0A>At 08:42 PM 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote:=0A>=0A>The minute you start to climb the relative wind direction changes as you now have an upward vector and P factor ensues. Sorry, no free lunch.=0A>>=0A>>Rick=0A>>=0A>>On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 5:04 PM, Dana Hague wrote: =0A>>At 02:02 P M 11/17/2011, Richard Girard wrote: =0A>>Dana, "If you increase power to cl imb", how exactly does P factor remain the same?=0A>>The flight condition w e were talking about was cruise when the relative wind is parallel to the p ropeller shaft, so there's no P-factor.- If you increase power to climb w hile maintaining the same airspeed, the AOA will also be the same, meaning that the airflow is still parallel to the prop shaft, i.e. still no P-facto r.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>-Dana =0A>>-- =0A>>Clothes make the man.- Naked people h ave little or no influence on society. =0A>>_blank">www.aeroelectric.com =0A>>.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com =0A>>="_blank">www.hom ebuilthelp.com =0A>>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>get ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List =0A>>tp://forums.m atronics.com =0A>>_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =0A>>=0A>> =0A>>-- =0A>>Zulu Delta=0A>>Mk IIIC=0A>>Thanks, Homer GBYM=0A>>=0A>>It isn' t necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.=0A>> - - Groucho Marx=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>www.aeroelectric.com www.builder sbooks.com www.homebuilthelp.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution-M att Dralle, List Admin.Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigato r?Kolb-List- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -http://forums.matronics.com/- L ist Contribution Web Site --Matt Dralle, List Admin. http://www.matronic s.com/contribution =0A>=0A>--=0A>Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you f D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:24 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly landing gear dimensions, please? From: "Dan Breitigam" Looking forward to it Phil. I've only flown once so far (last week), but plan to fly maybe once or twice a week. Dan Do not archive Excellent! How often do you fly? I'll be looking forward to some trips over there by air to get together to fly; you, me, Bob G, Scott K... Phil Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=358345#358345 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.