---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/01/11: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:31 AM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (JC Gilpin) 2. 03:54 AM - 912 carb parts (Ted Cowan) 3. 04:52 AM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (SS568) 4. 05:15 AM - Re: Re: Primer Kit Installed (Michael Welch) 5. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Primer Kit Installed (b young) 6. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Primer Kit Installed (Richard Girard) 7. 01:44 PM - Re: Re: Primer Kit Installed (Richard Girard) 8. 03:30 PM - Re: Re: Primer Kit Installed (Jack) 9. 04:03 PM - 2011 and Christmas lights to music on the Kolb again ! (twoplanekid) 10. 04:24 PM - Re: 2011 and Christmas lights to music on the Kolb again ! (John Hauck) 11. 04:26 PM - Re: Re: Primer Kit Installed (kinne russ) 12. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 11/28/11 (Gary Aman) 13. 07:01 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (Jack B. Hart) 14. 07:23 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (John Hauck) 15. 07:41 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (David Kulp) 16. 07:52 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (John Hauck) 17. 08:23 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (David Kulp) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:31:54 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed From: JC Gilpin * <...If the throttle is not closed, the charge in the enricher well will not be sucked into the engine....> Boy, isn't that the truth! How many times have you seen someone can't get a Rotax 2-stroke to start until you insist that they hold the throttle completely closed, then it fires next pull..... JG * ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:54:08 AM PST US From: "Ted Cowan" Subject: Kolb-List: 912 carb parts Howdy everyone. Been lurking and learning. Have a need for some 912 carb parts. Friend is mounting a 912 from a Pelican (which was sold by Kolb) and is in need of the parts that hold the throttle cables, two (left and right) plates, the little right angle tube for the cable and the nuts and bolts and stuff that hold the other cable. The Pelican was a tractor and is being mounted on a pusher, old Mk III and he is in dire needs for these parts. Of course. Was hoping someone had a generous heart and was willing to help this guy out. Thanks. Ted Cowan, 912 UL zoom zoom ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:37 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed From: "SS568" While we are on this starting issues. If I have a balky starting engine on any of my gadgets. Chain saws, weed eater, tractor etc. I do not wear out the starter nor pull the cord out by the roots. Just a small shot of starter fluid or raw gas. Therefore just a question. Do you use starting fluid on your airplane engine? I have not and probably will not. But I have not seen this mentioned on any of the forums. David d. -------- Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359994#359994 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:15:53 AM PST US From: Michael Welch Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed > > Therefore just a question. Do you use starting fluid on your airplane engine? > -------- > Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head Starting fluid has NO place anywhere near an airplane engine, unless you are going to wash parts in it (ether). Starting fluid places a tremendous strain on an engine, and there is NO way you can determine how much strain you are actually doing to it. If you have to depend on starting fluid to get an airplane motor running, then the fuel delivery system is not set up correctly, or at least the choke/primer is NOT correct. Keep the starting fluid around for your tractor. Keep it away from an airplane. Just my opinion. Mike Welch ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:07 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed Therefore just a question. Do you use starting fluid on your airplane engine? I have not and probably will not. But I have not seen this mentioned on any of the forums. David d. >>>>>>>>>>>.. No,,,, i dont own a can of starting fluid... ive heard of people blowing head gaskets using the stuff. boyd ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:41:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed From: Richard Girard Mike, I'll take the alternate view. I use starting fluid on any bulky starting engine regardless of what it powers, BUT, I only fog it around the aircleaner or, if the intake tract is restrictive, I'll pull the air cleaner cap and fog it, then close up and start. The key is using good sense. If you spray down the carb throat and wash the oil off the cylinders you deserve the damage you'll get. As with most things in life, moderation is the key. Rick Girard On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Michael Welch wrote: > > > > > Therefore just a question. Do you use starting fluid on your airplane > engine? > > -------- > > Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head > > > Starting fluid has NO place anywhere near an airplane engine, unless you > are going to wash > parts in it (ether). Starting fluid places a tremendous strain on an > engine, and there is NO > way you can determine how much strain you are actually doing to it. > > If you have to depend on starting fluid to get an airplane motor running, > then the fuel > delivery system is not set up correctly, or at least the choke/primer is > NOT correct. > > Keep the starting fluid around for your tractor. Keep it away from an > airplane. Just my opinion. > > Mike Welch > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed From: Richard Girard Before I peeled off the left landing gear of dear old Zulu Delta, I had a chance to test which works best, primer or starting carbs (enrichners, but they really are small separate carb that only work when the throttle is completely closed as noted). Whereever my 582 ends up, most probably on my old Firestar, it's will have enrichners and no primer. Ken's 582 starts much easier than mine, especially in cold weather. Rick Girard On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 8:12 PM, SS568 wrote: > > Hi Dennis, > > Was your 503 hard to start? > > Does it also have a choke? > > Thanks, > David d. > > -------- > Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359955#359955 > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:21 PM PST US From: Jack Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed On 12/1/2011 4:40 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > Before I peeled off the left landing gear of dear old Zulu Delta, I > had a chance to test which works best, primer or starting carbs > (enrichners, but they really are small separate carb that only work > when the throttle is completely closed as noted). Whereever my 582 > ends up, most probably on my old Firestar, it's will have enrichners > and no primer. Ken's 582 starts much easier than mine, especially in > cold weather. > > A side note to using the primer with an oil injection engine is your probably shooting raw gas into the cylinders at start up. I don't know if this little bit of raw gas will hurt any thing or not, but might be something to think about. Anybody know the answer? Jack Carillon Akron Oh. FS II > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=359955#359955 > > > ========== > ="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com > ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com > et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > le, List Admin. > ========== > arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > ========== > http://forums.matronics.com > ========== > le, List Admin. > ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ========== > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be > unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:03:54 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: 2011 and Christmas lights to music on the Kolb again ! From: "twoplanekid" For this year, I have added a Christmas tree rotating beacon (military field - blue and white) to honor all veterans http://vimeo.com/32912245 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360040#360040 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:30 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: 2011 and Christmas lights to music on the Kolb again ! For this year, I have added a Christmas tree rotating beacon (military field - blue and white) to honor all veterans http://vimeo.com/32912245 Thanks. Merry Xmas, Kolbers!!! john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:26:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed From: kinne russ Mike, I agree completely. I've seen a generator's camshaft broken by use of ether. I do use it, but only on a cheapie leaf-blower that was wearing out my right shoulder -- if it dies, no big deal. NOT for any aircraft engine use. Russ K On Dec 1, 2011, at 8:13 AM, Michael Welch wrote: > >> >> Therefore just a question. Do you use starting fluid on your airplane engine? >> -------- >> Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head > > > Starting fluid has NO place anywhere near an airplane engine, unless you are going to wash > parts in it (ether). Starting fluid places a tremendous strain on an engine, and there is NO > way you can determine how much strain you are actually doing to it. > > If you have to depend on starting fluid to get an airplane motor running, then the fuel > delivery system is not set up correctly, or at least the choke/primer is NOT correct. > > Keep the starting fluid around for your tractor. Keep it away from an airplane. Just my opinion. > > Mike Welch > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:33:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 11/28/11 From: Gary Aman Boyd, I moved the throttle from the center to the left side right after I bought the MK3.That left me the center mounting pivot for the old throttle availab le for a rudder trim system handle.I used a copper bug nut to clamp a cable to the rudder cable then to a spring attached to a newly fabricated handle that allowed me to apply tension on that cable for trim adjustments.It wor ked but I went back to a fixed tab because it always needed the same amount of trim at cruise. G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: b young Sent: Tue, Nov 29, 2011 10:49 am Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 6 Msgs - 11/28/11 My trim tab is not big enough, so I am pushing with the left foot no matter what I do. Winter project: new trim tab. -------- Richard Pike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i have mentioned this before so someone and they replied they would rather have a trim tab,,,, but my mkiii has springs that pull the rudder pedals forward,,, just put more tension or a bit heavier spring on the left peddle. that way you don't have to install a tab, down side,,, when parked the rudder will be slightly deflected when sitting on the ramp. boyd ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:33 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed Kolbers, When the FireFly was pushed around by the Rotax 447, I used the enricher to get it started. It was a pain in that in cold weather, it took too many pulls to get the engine started. Even though I pumped the carb bowl full of gas, a few times, I pushed the FireFly back in the hangar because I could not get it started. After reading up about the engine, I found that the 447 spark jumps both plugs at the same time. I re gapped the plug to a lesser gap and things improved. When I changed to the Victor 1+, I had the same carburetor, a Bing. I mounted a push bulb on the float bowl. While the FireFly was in the hangar, I would open the valve, squeeze the press bulb two times, close the valve, and then pull the propeller through two compressions. Then I would pull the plane out of the hangar, get into my gear and into the cockpit. By priming early, it gives the gas plenty of time to vaporize inside the crank case and the cylinder. Never fail, the engine would fire up on the first or second turn of the crank. The nice thing about this primer installation is that there are no long connecting tubes to the cockpit. With the MZ 34, I installed the same system on the Tillotson carburetor. This time I used a ready made push bulb rather than one scavenged from a dead weed wacker. The start process is the same as described above, and the engine fires the first time over. If you would like to see these setups the Bing primer may be found at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly89.html And the Tillotson at: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly153.html I do not believe there is any need for concern about shooting enough gas to prime an oil injected engine. The amount is quite minuscule. Also, when I tore down the 447 and the Victor 1+, I was amazed as to how much oil was inside the engine. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:06 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed Also, when I tore down the 447 and the Victor 1+, I was amazed as to how much oil was inside the engine. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack H/Kolbers: Got to turn the engines to clear the crankcases. Low rpm's on a two stroke is murder on them. They like to turn. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:41:54 PM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed Kolbers, I generally allow my FF to idle for a minute or two after landing to cool it down. Is this counter-productive? I like my engine and want to treat it with as much kindness as I can. Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK On 12/1/2011 10:21 PM, John Hauck wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > Also, when I tore down the 447 and the Victor 1+, I was amazed as to how > much oil was inside the engine. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > > > Jack H/Kolbers: > > Got to turn the engines to clear the crankcases. > > Low rpm's on a two stroke is murder on them. They like to turn. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:44 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed I generally allow my FF to idle for a minute or two after landing to cool it down. Is this counter-productive? I like my engine and want to treat it with as much kindness as I can. Dave Kulp Dave K/Kolbers: Engine has probably cooled down during decent and taxi to tie down. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:58 PM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed Good to know. Thanks, John. Dave On 12/1/2011 10:50 PM, John Hauck wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > I generally allow my FF to idle for a minute or two after landing to cool it > down. Is this counter-productive? I like my engine and want to treat it > with as much kindness as I can. > > Dave Kulp > > > Dave K/Kolbers: > > Engine has probably cooled down during decent and taxi to tie down. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.