---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/02/11: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:29 AM - 2011 and Christmas lights to music on the Kolb again (Lanny Fetterman) 2. 07:35 AM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (Jack B. Hart) 3. 07:49 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 12/01/11 (b young) 4. 08:08 AM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (John Hauck) 5. 09:09 AM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (Ron @ KFHU) 6. 03:05 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (Beauford) 7. 04:01 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (Richard Pike) 8. 07:36 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (Jack B. Hart) 9. 09:54 PM - Re: Primer Kit Installed (robert bean) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:00 AM PST US From: Lanny Fetterman Subject: Kolb-List: 2011 and Christmas lights to music on the Kolb again COOL BEANS! I think you should fly it like that. Can you imagine the UFO reports you could generate? Happy Holidays to you all! Lanny FSII Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:04 AM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed At 09:21 PM 12/1/11 -0600, you wrote: > >Jack H/Kolbers: > >Got to turn the engines to clear the crankcases. > >Low rpm's on a two stroke is murder on them. They like to turn. > >john h Kolbers, >From the above, the implication is that I run my engines too slow. The 447 was running wide open when it seized on climb out due to contaminated Amsoil. The Victor 1+ was flown for a half an hour at cruise speed and then I returned to the airport, landed, taxied back to the hangar and shut it down. Upon pulling it into the hangar I found a coolant leak. Fried the cylinder and piston but not to the point of seizer. Think about it, the non volatile oil is splashed all through out the case by the rotating and oscillating parts where it adheres to the case wall and all other parts. Some proceeds on through into the combustion chamber were it burns and is blown out the exhaust. After shut down, the oil that has been plastered against the case and clinging to other parts, by gravity flows or drips downward to the bottom of the case. The other implication of John's statement is that you should run your two stroke wide open to prevent lubrication problems. If you run your engine within the range published by the engine manufacturer, and you properly set up your injection system and/or mix your fuel correctly you will not have any lubrication problems. If you would like to check out how much oil remains in the case, take the cover off you two stroke weed wacker and take a peek. You will find the parts well coated with oil. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:04 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 17 Msgs - 12/01/11 From: Gary Aman Boyd, I moved the throttle from the center to the left side right after I bought the MK3.That left me the center mounting pivot for the old throttle availab le for a rudder trim system handle.I used a copper bug nut to clamp a cable to the rudder cable then to a spring attached to a newly fabricated handle that allowed me to apply tension on that cable for trim adjustments.It wor ked but I went back to a fixed tab because it always needed the same amount of trim at cruise. G.Aman >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gary that is why i mentioned put a stiffer spring, for one side only, in the nose cone, pulling on one rudder peddle harder than the other. as for me, my flying shoes has a sole that extends out a bit,,, i push on the right peddle and shove the lip of my shoe under the copilot left peddld. that works out just about right. boyd ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:15 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed The other implication of John's statement is that you should run your two stroke wide open to prevent lubrication problems. If you run your engine within the range published by the engine manufacturer, and you properly set up your injection system and/or mix your fuel correctly you will not have any lubrication problems. Jack B. Hart FF004 Jack H/Gang: Should have done a better job on my last post. Yes, run the two stroke wide open on takeoff and at other times when deemed necessary. I was thinking more in the way of keeping the engine cleared out by operating at the manufacturer's recommended power setting for an airplane. The slower a two stroke is operated, the more oil will be retained in the engine. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:28 AM PST US From: "Ron @ KFHU" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed My take on idle is that John is right, about the idle being a motor destructor on a 2cycle, all the more so when people use 100/1 ratio. there is simply not enough oil at these low rpm's to coat the cyl walls, surfaces effectively, at higher revs plenty of fuel/oil are running through and there is enough residual oil left to keep everything lubed, too little in my opinion but I keep hearing about that phenomenal ratio so I have to believe it be true. Anyway I do 40/1 and if it starts being too gooi than 45/1 till I get as much oil in there as I can without fouling, the caveat is synthetic oil. Oh yes I also usually use a hotter plug. Ron @ KFHU ======================= ---- David Kulp wrote: ============ Kolbers, I generally allow my FF to idle for a minute or two after landing to cool it down. Is this counter-productive? I like my engine and want to treat it with as much kindness as I can. Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA FireFly 11DMK On 12/1/2011 10:21 PM, John Hauck wrote: > --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" > > > Also, when I tore down the 447 and the Victor 1+, I was amazed as to how > much oil was inside the engine. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > > > Jack H/Kolbers: > > Got to turn the engines to clear the crankcases. > > Low rpm's on a two stroke is murder on them. They like to turn. > > john h > mkIII > Titus, Alabama > > -- kugelair.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:05:06 PM PST US From: "Beauford " Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed Brother Hart: I enjoyed your detailed items on primer-bulb plumbing... Very instructive, sir... Thanks for those. You mentioned that the cause for your 447 problem was "contaminated Amsoil"... Would you mind elaborating on how that Amsoil problem occurred? Was it due to the age of the oil, or some other factor(s)...? Appreciate it... Curious beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed (snip) > The 447 was running wide open when it seized on climb out due to contaminated Amsoil. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:55 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Primer Kit Installed From: "Richard Pike" beauford wrote: > Brother Hart: > > You mentioned that the cause for your 447 problem was "contaminated > Amsoil"... Would you mind elaborating on how that > Amsoil problem occurred? Was it due to the age of the oil, or some other > factor(s)...? > Appreciate it... > Curious beauford > FF-076 > Brandon, FL > -- Has something gotten lost in the translation here? Contaminated Amsoil? I was told to use Amsoil in my Rotax 277 back in the Hummer/1983 days, and the 277 was not happy at 100:1. I broke it in at 50:1, then went to 75:1, and everything was lovely. Went to 100:1 and after about an hour in flight, the thing started to rattle! I nursed it home, dreading the worst. The next day, since I figured it was toast anyway, decided to see what would happen if I took it back to 50:1 for a bit - started it up at 50:1 and in just a few seconds the rattle went away, and many years later it had 750 hours on it when I sold it. It was on it's second piston/ring set. Concerning using ether to start an engine: the 532 I had on my Anglin J-6 was always the most contrary starting engine I have ever had - don't know why - but when cold it required ether to start. Sprayed a shot of ether on the air cleaner and pulled the rope and away she would go. Never had any problems that could have been related to using ether. On the MKIII/582, I do not have starting problems, but if it gets contrary, I have no qualms at all about using a shot of ether on the air cleaner. OTOH, I can see where giving it a shot down the carb throat into the crank could be a short trip to a quick engine death... Years ago I had a VW Dasher diesel, and on one occasion when it was below freezing and the stupid car would not start, I gave it a shot of ether. It survived - barely - but I will NEVER do that again... -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=360086#360086 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:23 PM PST US From: "Jack B. Hart" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed At 06:02 PM 12/2/11 -0500, you wrote: > > >Brother Hart: > >I enjoyed your detailed items on primer-bulb plumbing... Very instructive, >sir... Thanks for those. > >You mentioned that the cause for your 447 problem was "contaminated >Amsoil"... Would you mind elaborating on how that >Amsoil problem occurred? Was it due to the age of the oil, or some other >factor(s)...? > >Appreciate it... > >Curious beauford Beauford, >From my flight log: June 25, 2001 Flight 144 - 3 minutes, 57:36 tt. Tried the aluminum foil and acrylic glue on the axles and it seemed to work. Pulled it out and went flying. Took off to the south on the center taxiway. Climbed at 6400 rpm at 50 mphi. Just about 1500 agl the engine rpm dropped 200, and I jiggled the throttle and it quit. Banked 180 and headed for the airport at 40 mphi. I jigged a little to see if there was something under me that I could land on, but it was all tall corn and beans. I made it to with in 100 yards of the airport and landed in a bean field with the rows where the beans were about six inches high............................ On tear down, I discovered the inside head and top piston surfaces glazed with hard carbon that look almost like black glass. It was very difficult to remove. Also the same material was found under the piston rings. I believe this is what caused the seizure. The rings could not expand, move and collapse back into the piston slot. Running the engine hard with the aluminum pistons expanding faster than the steel cylinder liners generated too much heat and scored the piston. At the time I was running with just one EGT and it of course was on the cylinder that did not seize. I looked at everything that I thought could have caused the problem. Finally, I checked out my oil. Early on I had decided to use Amsoil and I purchased a case in late 1998 and stored it in my hangar in the Mississippi River bottoms. So the oil had been in an essentially 100% humidity environment for 2.5 years. When I dumped the remaining oil out of the last bottle opened, I found a black residue in the bottom of the bottle. So then I opened a bottle from the bottom of the case that had been setting on the gravel hangar floor and poured it over into the bottle I had just emptied. There was about a half inch of jelled material in the bottom of the bottle. I called Amsoil and explained what I was seeing. After a bit of silence, I was asked what was the tint of the plastic bottle. Then I found out that they had been using a plastic that that held the oil in but did not keep the moisture out. Amsoil likes to adsorb water, which changes its composition. He said they had changed plastics and it was no longer a problem. I recycled the last of the oil and purchase a new case. But after I got the 447 running again, I found I had lost faith in the product. I sold what remained of the new case to a retailer and I changed to Opti-2. So if you use Amsoil, keep it capped tight after opening the bottle for the first time. Jack B. Hart FF004 Winchester, IN ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:04 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Primer Kit Installed From: robert bean Sad but true, plastic containers transfer atmosphere and moisture over time. urethanes and, I suppose, other like pigments will congeal over time. Metal or glass is the only way to go. BB mkIII, suzuki On 2, Dec 2011, at 10:39 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote: > > At 06:02 PM 12/2/11 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> Brother Hart: >> >> I enjoyed your detailed items on primer-bulb plumbing... Very instructive, >> sir... Thanks for those. >> >> You mentioned that the cause for your 447 problem was "contaminated >> Amsoil"... Would you mind elaborating on how that >> Amsoil problem occurred? Was it due to the age of the oil, or some other >> factor(s)...? >> >> Appreciate it... >> >> Curious beauford > > Beauford, > >> From my flight log: June 25, 2001 Flight 144 - 3 minutes, 57:36 tt. Tried > the aluminum foil and acrylic glue on the axles and it seemed to work. > Pulled it out and went flying. Took off to the south on the center taxiway. > Climbed at 6400 rpm at 50 mphi. Just about 1500 agl the engine rpm dropped > 200, and I jiggled the throttle and it quit. Banked 180 and headed for the > airport at 40 mphi. I jigged a little to see if there was something under > me that I could land on, but it was all tall corn and beans. I made it to > with in 100 yards of the airport and landed in a bean field with the rows > where the beans were about six inches high............................ > > On tear down, I discovered the inside head and top piston surfaces glazed > with hard carbon that look almost like black glass. It was very difficult > to remove. Also the same material was found under the piston rings. I > believe this is what caused the seizure. The rings could not expand, move > and collapse back into the piston slot. Running the engine hard with the > aluminum pistons expanding faster than the steel cylinder liners generated > too much heat and scored the piston. At the time I was running with just > one EGT and it of course was on the cylinder that did not seize. I looked > at everything that I thought could have caused the problem. Finally, I > checked out my oil. > > Early on I had decided to use Amsoil and I purchased a case in late 1998 and > stored it in my hangar in the Mississippi River bottoms. So the oil had > been in an essentially 100% humidity environment for 2.5 years. When I > dumped the remaining oil out of the last bottle opened, I found a black > residue in the bottom of the bottle. So then I opened a bottle from the > bottom of the case that had been setting on the gravel hangar floor and > poured it over into the bottle I had just emptied. There was about a half > inch of jelled material in the bottom of the bottle. I called Amsoil and > explained what I was seeing. After a bit of silence, I was asked what was > the tint of the plastic bottle. Then I found out that they had been using a > plastic that that held the oil in but did not keep the moisture out. Amsoil > likes to adsorb water, which changes its composition. He said they had > changed plastics and it was no longer a problem. > > I recycled the last of the oil and purchase a new case. But after I got the > 447 running again, I found I had lost faith in the product. I sold what > remained of the new case to a retailer and I changed to Opti-2. > > So if you use Amsoil, keep it capped tight after opening the bottle for the > first time. > > Jack B. Hart FF004 > Winchester, IN > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.