Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:44 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/26/11 (Bob Green)
2. 07:50 AM - Firefly Instrument panel (t41pilot)
3. 10:33 AM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (Richard Girard)
4. 10:52 AM - Re: Paint sprayer recommendations? (Rick Neilsen)
5. 11:20 AM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (Michael Welch)
6. 11:22 AM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (b young)
7. 11:35 AM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (Phil)
8. 11:47 AM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (pcking)
9. 12:17 PM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (william sullivan)
10. 12:59 PM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (t41pilot)
11. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: Firefly Instrument panel (Phil)
12. 03:10 PM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
13. 03:22 PM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (SuperJETT)
14. 04:26 PM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (Michael Welch)
15. 06:12 PM - Re: Firefly Instrument panel (t41pilot)
16. 08:47 PM - Looks like a great motor is being designed (Ron @ KFHU)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Kolb-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 12/26/11 |
Phil, after spraying all of the poli-stits coatings on the fabric surfaces of my
MKIIIX I definitely can say I prefer the gravity feed type (canister on top
of the gun) spray gun that I used. I used a regular 5hp compressor with 25
gal tank. What I do recommend renting or buying a "fresh air machine" with
mask to protect your lungs and brain from over spray. Since you are in Hixson
you may want to check with Stewart Pruitt about the process he is going to use
on the Taylor Craft he will be covering in a year or so.
Never having done any fabric work, I was amazed at how easy the Stits process is
to use. Any fabric work is time consuming( and a little tedious) but even
an amateur can get a decent job if he follows instructions... speaking of my
own self of course. I am satisfied that my fabric parts (wings, control surfaces,
etc) are all complete and ready to install. I only lack a little fabric/coatings
work on the fuselage cage to be finished with fabric work. Phil, I believe
you have more experience with this process than I did.
I am looking forward to taking the cage and GPAS VW engine to London, KY and KOLB
this next week so they can help me design and build an exhaust system. We
are hoping to come up with something with Steve Bennett's input that can be a
standard system for Kolbers that want to use the VW conversion with re-drive.
Hope all of you on the list had a Merry Christmas and will have a great New Year.
Bob Green
MKIIIX project
GPAS VW w/re-drive
N830PB
Message 2
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| Subject: | Firefly Instrument panel |
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working on
the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box stores
and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared for either
wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am nervous about
drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping something.
So any help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic
tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something
called a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to
make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with
some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody
invented a better way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built
but I live in Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly
and covering will have to wait till spring. I hope to be flying by early summer
and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in July. Hope to get a ride from
CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
I wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it will
tear the fiberglass and make a real mess.
Hole saws work fine as long as you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every few
seconds to allow the teeth to clear out the cutting debris, and C) use a
backup block to support the panel as you cut.
One thing you might wish to consider is making a removable panel to make
future maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments directly into
the fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on after the nose is on
the airplane.
Also, spend some time sitting in your plane strapped in as you would be
when flying and see if you can reach the panel. If the Firefly is like the
Firestar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuckling. Imagine how
frustrating, and dangerous, it would be to have to unstrap to reach a
switch in an emergency.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot <t41pilot@frontier.com> wrote:
>
> Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be
> working on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the
> big box stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They
> seem geared for either wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience
> at all and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel without
> cracking or badly chipping something. So any help here with types or brand
> names would be appreciated. My logic tells me a finer tooth pattern would
> be good for fiberglass. Also I see something called a flycutter but have no
> experience with that either. Also I need to make a drill jig for the H
> brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with some predrilled holes as
> the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody invented a better
> way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live
> in Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly and
> covering will have to wait till spring. I hop!
> e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in
> July. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Paint sprayer recommendations? |
I used a low priced Graco copy sprayer to spray my plane it cost me
something like $30. The low pressure high volume sprayers use less paint
but you will never save enough paint on one plane to recoup the cost of a
high priced sprayer.
My advice is learn then practice. There is an art to a good finish
and color. I'm not a great painter but I have learned a few things not to
do. Find out what the best under coat to paint for the color you want.
Trust me trying to get red to look red over the silver coat just doesn't
work well. Spray in cooler temps. When it is cool the paint will flow
together before it drys to give you a smooth finish. You can use a retarder
in warm weather but it is a trial and error process.
Enjoy
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 8:56 PM, <gliderx5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Phil
>
> I used a $50 Lowes Kobalt "Latex Spray Gun" to spray Behr and Sherwin
> Williams latex on my Pietenpol and Titan Tornado with good results. Check
> out the links below for pictures and descriptions:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/piet.html
> http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Tornado.htm
>
> Malcolm Morrison
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Phil" <phactor9@yahoo.com>
> *To: *kolb-list@matronics.com
> *Sent: *Monday, December 26, 2011 12:24:47 PM
>
> *Subject: *Kolb-List: Paint sprayer recommendations?
>
> I'm in the market for a paint sprayer. I'm leaning toward a low-end HVLP,
> hopefully not exceeding $300-ish. Lowe's has three models; HV1900USG,
> HV2900USG and HV3900USG ($90 to $150). Sears has a couple (Campbell
> Hausfeld HV2002 -$200 and HV2500 - $300). Then there's Harbor Freight
> ($100).
>
> So, what experiences does everyone have?
>
> http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00988586000P?prdNo=1
> http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=326055-89183-HV3900USG
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-kit-44677.html
>
> Phil H.
>
>
> *
>
> _blank">www.aeroelectric.com
> " target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
> ="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Gregg,
Here's a few of my thoughts regarding panels holes. (others may have different
opinions/experiences)
If you want to go the "Cadillac' route...and you know exactly the instruments
you are going to use,
you could find an outfit that would water-jet cut your panel. You could lay it
out, and they'll do the rest.
This is likely to be the easiest (on you) and nicest looking.
The round holesaws wobble a hellava lot. They're not exactly made for precision
circle cuts. Will they work?
Barely, providing you don't screw everything up. You have to clamp the panel down
VERY securely.
The flycutters "can" do a fairly respectable job of cutting holes, but you REALLY
have to get a high-quality
flycutter. I have one of those Harbour Freight pieces of crap. It hard to believe
someone could make something so
worthless. I think I justy threw it away the last time I tried using it.
Same story for the holesaws. The chinese ones are crap, crap, crap!!! If you
spend the money on some decent
Milwauckee or some USA made company ones, you have a better chance of doing an
ok job.
For making your own panel holes, the "best" way is to call Aircraft Spruce, or
other a/c parts houses. They sell
instrument panel hole punches. These are the ones where you tighten a bolt and
the inner disc cuts out a precise
hole. This is the best method if you insist on doing it yourself.
Mike Welch
On Dec 27, 2011, at 9:48 AM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working on
the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box stores
and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared for either
wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am nervous
about drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping something.
So any help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic
tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something
called a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need
to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with
some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody
invented a better way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are
built but I live in Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly
and covering will have to wait till spring. I hop!
> e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in July.
Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
>
> --------
> Gregg Kaat
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Also I need to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat
piece of stock with some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best
way to go, or has somebody invented a better way? A photo here would be
helpful.
--------
Gregg Kaat
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
i found a piece of 1/4 in thick alum bar about 15 inch long. at 1/2
inch spacing i drilled 1/8 in holes in a perfect line the end holes
were 1/2 inch and 3/8 inch. the 1/2 and 3/8 inch holes were for
mounting the h sections in the wing and boom tube, by installing the
h section bolt, through the pattern, and h section, i could predrill
all the holes in the steel h section. then when the h section was
installed and the 1/2 inch hole located and drilled in the spar,, i
mounted the template on the side of the spar, and held in place with
the bolt, i could line up and drill the spar through the jig., after
getting one rivit at the far end drilled and held in place with a cleko,
the rest drilled very easy and fast.
i hope it is as clear to you as it was to me.
boyd young
ps the 1/2 and 3/8 inch holes may have been 3/4 inch from the first 1/8
inch hole.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
I also have this task to look forward to; cutting large holes in Lexan. Som
e are suggesting a router with a very small diameter bit, following a circu
lar jig.
A large hole-saw seems appropriate to me; but some are suggesting you start
in reverse to score the surface before drilling forward. Apply masking tap
e firmly to the cut-line. I would think you'd need to drill slowly so's not
to risk raising the temperature.
Another idea that seems feasible to me; firmly clamp the fiberglass/lexan i
n between two clean pieces of scrap plywood (not "plain" wood) and drill al
l three layers together. You probably wouldn't need to start in reverse in
that case.
Phil H.
FF076
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
I wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it will te
ar the fiberglass and make a real mess.
Hole saws work fine as long as you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every few
seconds to allow the teeth to clear out the cutting debris, and C) use a ba
ckup block to support the panel as you cut.
One thing you might wish to consider is making a removable panel to make fu
ture maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments directly into th
e fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on after the nose is on t
he airplane.
Also, spend some time sitting in your plane strapped in as you would be whe
n flying and see if you can reach the panel. If the Firefly is like the Fir
estar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuckling. Imagine how frustrating,
and dangerous, it would be to have to unstrap to reach a switch in an emer
gency.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot <t41pilot@frontier.com> wrote:
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working
on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box
-stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem ge
ared for either wood or metal. -I don't have fiberglass experience at all
and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or b
adly chipping something. So any help here with types or brand names would b
e appreciated. My logic tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fi
berglass. Also I see something called a flycutter but have no experience wi
th that either. Also I need to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as well
. Is a flat piece of stock with some predrilled holes as the plan suggests
the best way to go, or has somebody invented a better way? A photo here wou
ld be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live in Michigan and Winte
r is finally showing herself so my assembly and covering will have to
wait till spring. I hop!
-e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh i
n July. -Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. -Happy Holidays
to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- - Groucho Marx
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Gregg,
Consider clamping plywood on the front and back of your fiberglass panel
blank when you cut holes. That minimizes surface tearing.
I second Rick's suggestion about a removable panel. They are common on
sailplanes. Maintenance is easier and the instruments don't take a
beating from riding in the trailer in the plane. The quick disconnect
uses O-rings and works well. An electric plug or two, a BNC connector
and the panel will pop in and out easily. Glider suppliers carry
everything you need to build a panel.
Cumulus-Soaring,com is one supplier. Wingsandwheels.com is another.
Peter
Tubing connectors
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/winter.htm#Tubing,_Connectors,_and_Miscell
aneous
5-way tubing quick disconnect
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/winter/connector-QD-2.jpg
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Girard
To: kolb-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:25 PM
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
I wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it
will tear the fiberglass and make a real mess.
Hole saws work fine as long as you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every
few seconds to allow the teeth to clear out the cutting debris, and C)
use a backup block to support the panel as you cut.
One thing you might wish to consider is making a removable panel to
make future maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments
directly into the fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on
after the nose is on the airplane.
Also, spend some time sitting in your plane strapped in as you would
be when flying and see if you can reach the panel. If the Firefly is
like the Firestar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuckling. Imagine
how frustrating, and dangerous, it would be to have to unstrap to reach
a switch in an emergency.
Rick Girard
On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot <t41pilot@frontier.com>
wrote:
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be
working on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at
the big box stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side.
They seem geared for either wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass
experience at all and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel
without cracking or badly chipping something. So any help here with
types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic tells me a finer
tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something called
a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to make
a drill jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with
some predrilled holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has
somebody invented a better way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings
and tail are built but I live in Michigan and Winter is finally showing
herself so my assembly and covering will have to wait till spring. I
hop!
e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at
Oshkosh in July. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy
Holidays to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
==========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
==========
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
==========
http://forums.matronics.com
==========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be
unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
- I used a hand held cheap Black and Decker jigsaw with a hack saw blade
to cut mine.- I backed it up with plywood on the bottom.- The blade gua
rd held the top.- Worked great.- I drilled a starting hole away from th
e cutting area, and sawed into it.
-------------------------
-------------------------
-- Bill Sullivan
-------------------------
-------------------------
-- Windsor Locks, Ct.
-------------------------
-------------------------
-- FS 447
-------------------------
-------------------------
-
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Phil <phactor9@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
I also have this task to look forward to; cutting large holes in Lexan. Som
e are suggesting a router with a very small diameter bit, following a circu
lar jig.=0A
A large hole-saw seems appropriate to me; but some are suggesting you start
in reverse to score the surface before drilling forward. Apply masking tap
e firmly to the cut-line. I would think you'd need to drill slowly so's not
to risk raising the temperature.=0A
Another idea that seems feasible to me; firmly clamp the fiberglass/lexan i
n between two clean pieces of scrap plywood (not "plain" wood) and drill al
l three layers together. You probably wouldn't need to start in reverse in
that case.=0A
Phil H.
FF076
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A
From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
=0AI wouldn't use the flycutter, if it catches as it breaks through it will
tear the fiberglass and make a real mess.=0AHole saws work fine as long as
you A) turn them slowly, B) pause every few seconds to allow the teeth to
clear out the cutting debris, and C) use a backup block to support the pane
l as you cut.=0AOne thing you might wish to consider is making a removable
panel to make future maintenance much easier. If you mount the instruments
directly into the fiberglass panel it becomes a real bear to work on after
the nose is on the airplane.=0AAlso, spend some time sitting in your plane
strapped in as you would be when flying and see if you can reach the panel.
If the Firefly is like the Firestar or the Mk III, you can't without unbuc
kling. Imagine how frustrating, and dangerous, it would be to have to unstr
ap to reach a switch in an emergency.=0A
=0ARick Girard
=0AOn Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 9:48 AM, t41pilot <t41pilot@frontier.com> wrote:
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be working
on the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box
-stores and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem ge
ared for either wood or metal. -I don't have fiberglass experience at all
and am nervous about drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or b
adly chipping something. So any help here with types or brand names would b
e appreciated. My logic tells me a finer tooth pattern would be good for fi
berglass. Also I see something called a flycutter but have no experience wi
th=0A that either. Also I need to make a drill jig for the H brace yet as w
ell. Is a flat piece of stock with some predrilled holes as the plan sugges
ts the best way to go, or has somebody invented a better way? A photo here
would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live in Michigan and Wi
nter is finally showing herself so my assembly and covering will have to wa
it till spring. I hop!
-e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh i
n July. -Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. -Happy Holidays
to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com"=0A target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
http://forums.matronics.com
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
=0A
--
=0AZulu Delta=0AMk IIIC=0AThanks, Homer GBYM=0A
=0AIt isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhap
py.
- - Groucho Marx=0A
=0A=0Aollow target=_blank>www.aeroelectric.com=0A/" rel=nofollow target
=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com=0Aofollow target=_blank>www.homebuilthelp
.com=0Allow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution=0A=nofo
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List=0Aet=_b
lank>http://forums.matronics.com=0Allow target=_blank>http://www.matronic
======0A=0A
Message 10
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|
| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Thanks to all that have replied so far. The info is definately useful. Mike, I
had suspicions that the hole saw may not cut a clean hole and I think you have
confirmed that. I forgot that hole punches existed and I will look into that
for sure. I don't have the instruments in my possesion yet so I don't know how
much bezel is available to cover up a ragged edge on an imperfect cut if I
do ultimately have to use a hole cutter for whatever reason but that would play
into a decision as well. I like the removable panel idea but am concerned about
the added weight. The firefly already approaches the weight limit of part
103 and I'm trying to stay within limits if possible. Are the detachable panels
typically made of aluminum or wood? I already know that I can't reach the
panel when seated so what I have in mind is similar to what degbot has. A grand
rapids EIS and separate Alt, Aspd and compass in the panel. Switches mounted
elsewhere. I'm a lightweight at 145 pounds so I'm expecting to have to have
additional seat cushions to move me forward to get into the CG envelope. Good
to hear from you again Phil. I know that you were thinking of going without
a nosecone. How are you mounting your instruments? Also thanks to boyd for
the H brace info.
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361784#361784
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
I'm not sure how I'll mount mine - perhaps a podium mount in front of the s
tick. I only have a dual CHT, dual EGT, TinyTach and a cheap Halls windmete
r to figure out. My Garmin eTrex will Velcro to my leg for Alt and compass.
A nose and windshield might be in my future, eventually.
-
Phil H.
2011 FF076
--- On Tue, 12/27/11, t41pilot <t41pilot@frontier.com> wrote:
From: t41pilot <t41pilot@frontier.com>
Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Firefly Instrument panel
Thanks to all that have replied so far. The info is definately useful. Mike
, I had suspicions that the hole saw may not cut a clean hole and I think y
ou have confirmed- that. I forgot that hole punches existed and I will lo
ok into that for sure.- I don't have the instruments in my possesion yet
so I don't know how much bezel is available to cover up a ragged edge on an
imperfect cut if I do ultimately have to use a hole cutter for whatever re
ason but that would play into a decision as well.- I like the removable p
anel idea but am concerned about the added weight.- The firefly already a
pproaches the weight limit of part 103 and I'm trying to stay within limits
if possible.- Are the detachable panels typically made of aluminum or wo
od? I already know that I can't reach the panel when seated so what I have
in mind is similar to what degbot has.- A grand rapids EIS and separate A
lt, Aspd and compass in the panel.- Switches mounted elsewhere.- I'm a
lightweight at 145 pounds so I!
'm expecting to have to have additional seat cushions to move me forward to
get into the CG envelope.- Good to hear from you again Phil.- I know t
hat you were thinking of going without a nosecone. How are you mounting you
r instruments? Also thanks to boyd for the H brace info.
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361784#361784
le, List Admin.
le, List Admin.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
FYI , a Fly cutter is designed to be used in a Milling machine or in a dece
nt drill press not a hand held drill motor
do not archive
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
Gregg,
Here's a few of my thoughts regarding panels holes. (others may have
ifferent opinions/experiences)
If you want to go the "Cadillac' route...and you know exactly the instrum
ents
ou are going to use,
ou could find an outfit that would water-jet cut your panel. You could lay
it
ut, and they'll do the rest.
his is likely to be the easiest (on you) and nicest looking.
The round holesaws wobble a hellava lot. They're not exactly made for
recision circle cuts. Will they work?
arely, providing you don't screw everything up. You have to clamp the pane
l
own VERY securely.
The flycutters "can" do a fairly respectable job of cutting holes, but yo
u
EALLY have to get a high-quality
lycutter. I have one of those Harbour Freight pieces of crap. It hard to
elieve someone could make something so
orthless. I think I justy threw it away the last time I tried using it.
Same story for the holesaws. The chinese ones are crap, crap, crap!!! If
you
pend the money on some decent
ilwauckee or some USA made company ones, you have a better chance of doing
an
k job.
For making your own panel holes, the "best" way is to call Aircraft Spruc
e, or
ther a/c parts houses. They sell
nstrument panel hole punches. These are the ones where you tighten a bolt
and
he inner disc cuts out a precise
ole. This is the best method if you insist on doing it yourself.
Mike Welch
On Dec 27, 2011, at 9:48 AM, t41pilot wrote:
Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be workin
g on
he instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box stor
es
nd the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared for ei
ther
ood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am nervous abo
ut
rilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping something
. So
ny help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic tells
me
finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something cal
led
flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to make a d
rill
ig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with some predrill
ed
oles as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody invented a be
tter
ay? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live i
n
ichigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly and covering w
ill
ave to wait till spring. I h!
op!
e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in
uly. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
--------
Gregg Kaat
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
I'm new to the list (been lurking a while) but I do have a lot of
fiberglass experience. If you have steady hands a Dremel/etc with a
good spiral cut bit can cut accurately/smoothly. Start slightly
smaller than needed then slowly enlarge to your scribe mark. It works
great on fiberglass, carbon fiber, and even carbon/kevlar though that
will dull and the kevlar frays very finely.
All of the other suggestions are good too, especially the hole punch
which I've used also.
Darin
>>
>> Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be
>> working on
> the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box
> stores
> and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared for
> either
> wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am nervous
> about
> drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping
> something. So
> any help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic tells
> me
> a finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see something
> called
> a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to make a
> drill
> jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with some
> predrilled
> holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody invented a
> better
> way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I live
> in
> Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly and covering
> will
> have to wait till spring. I h!
> op!
>> e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at Oshkosh in
> July. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays to all
>>
>> --------
>> Gregg Kaat
>>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Ellery and other Kolbers,
I guess I took it for granted "of course" you would use a drill press
for a hole saw or a flycutter!!
I assumed anybody wanting nice looking holes would at least start with
decent drill press.
Mike Welch
On Dec 27, 2011, at 5:07 PM, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote:
> FYI , a Fly cutter is designed to be used in a Milling machine or in a
decent drill press not a hand held drill motor
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> Ellery Batchelder Jr.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
> To: kolb-list <kolb-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tue, Dec 27, 2011 2:20 pm
> Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Firefly Instrument panel
>
<mdnanwelch7@hotmail.com>
>
> Gregg,
>
> Here's a few of my thoughts regarding panels holes. (others may
have
> different opinions/experiences)
>
> If you want to go the "Cadillac' route...and you know exactly the
instruments
> you are going to use,
> you could find an outfit that would water-jet cut your panel. You
could lay it
> out, and they'll do the rest.
> This is likely to be the easiest (on you) and nicest looking.
>
> The round holesaws wobble a hellava lot. They're not exactly made
for
> precision circle cuts. Will they work?
> Barely, providing you don't screw everything up. You have to clamp
the panel
> down VERY securely.
>
> The flycutters "can" do a fairly respectable job of cutting holes,
but you
> REALLY have to get a high-quality
> flycutter. I have one of those Harbour Freight pieces of crap. It
hard to
> believe someone could make something so
> worthless. I think I justy threw it away the last time I tried using
it.
> Same story for the holesaws. The chinese ones are crap, crap,
crap!!! If you
> spend the money on some decent
> Milwauckee or some USA made company ones, you have a better chance of
doing an
> ok job.
>
> For making your own panel holes, the "best" way is to call Aircraft
Spruce, or
> other a/c parts houses. They sell
> instrument panel hole punches. These are the ones where you tighten a
bolt and
> the inner disc cuts out a precise
> hole. This is the best method if you insist on doing it yourself.
>
> Mike Welch
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 27, 2011, at 9:48 AM, t41pilot wrote:
>
> >
> > Regards to all on the Kolb list. I'm building a firefly and will be
working on
> the instrument panel soon. I've looked at the hole saws at the big box
stores
> and the teeth appear to be a bit on the coarse side. They seem geared
for either
> wood or metal. I don't have fiberglass experience at all and am
nervous about
> drilling the holes in the panel without cracking or badly chipping
something. So
> any help here with types or brand names would be appreciated. My logic
tells me
> a finer tooth pattern would be good for fiberglass. Also I see
something called
> a flycutter but have no experience with that either. Also I need to
make a drill
> jig for the H brace yet as well. Is a flat piece of stock with some
predrilled
> holes as the plan suggests the best way to go, or has somebody
invented a better
> way? A photo here would be helpful. My wings and tail are built but I
live in
> Michigan and Winter is finally showing herself so my assembly and
covering will
> have to wait till spring. I h!
> op!
> > e to be flying by early summer and hope to meet some of you at
Oshkosh in
> July. Hope to get a ride from CES308 in the spring. Happy Holidays
to all
> >
> > --------
> > Gregg Kaat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361740#361740
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> _blank>www.aeroelectric.com
> /" target=_blank>www.buildersbooks.com
> =_blank>www.homebuilthelp.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
> p://forums.matronics.com
> blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Firefly Instrument panel |
Thanks for the tip Superjett. I do have a Dremel tool and have a steady hand when
I haven't hit the coffee too hard. This idea is also cost effective as well
and doesn't limit the hole to a circle. I thought of using my oscillating tool
for the rectangle needed to mount the Grand Rapids EIS but this sounds better.
--------
Gregg Kaat
2011 Firefly
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=361801#361801
Message 16
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| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net> |
| Subject: | Looks like a great motor is being designed |
http://www.motusmotorcycles.com/kmv4.html
I guess I can only wonder about it at this stage.
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