---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 01/15/12: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:52 AM - Re: Re: Rotax provision (Pat Ladd) 2. 05:16 AM - Re: changes in EAA? (Richard Pike) 3. 05:53 AM - Re: changes in EAA? (Ducati SS) 4. 06:10 AM - Re: Warp Drive prop (John Hauck) 5. 06:24 AM - Re: changes in EAA? (Herb Gayheart) 6. 06:27 AM - Re: Re: changes in EAA? (John Hauck) 7. 08:42 AM - Re: He assumed I knew what I was doing... (Ducati SS) 8. 09:08 AM - Re: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight (Rick Neilsen) 9. 09:11 AM - Re: Warp Drive prop (b young) 10. 09:13 AM - Re: Re: changes in EAA? (Beauford) 11. 09:36 AM - Re: Warp Drive prop (Ellery Batchelder Jr) 12. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: changes in EAA?--amen, brothers... (john taylor) 13. 09:58 AM - Re: Re: changes in EAA? (Herb Gayheart) 14. 10:45 AM - Re: changes in EAA? (Ron @ KFHU) 15. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight (Richard Girard) 16. 11:23 AM - Re: Warp Drive prop (Richard Girard) 17. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: changes in EAA?--amen, brothers... (Richard Girard) 18. 01:49 PM - Re: Warp Drive prop (John Hauck) 19. 02:01 PM - Re: Warp Drive prop (John Hauck) 20. 03:05 PM - Re: Warp Drive prop (Dennis Souder) 21. 03:13 PM - Re: Warp Drive prop (Richard Girard) 22. 03:34 PM - Re: Warp Drive prop (John Hauck) 23. 04:37 PM - Re: changes in EAA? (David d.) 24. 05:56 PM - Re: changes in EAA? (ces308) 25. 07:32 PM - Re: Re: changes in EAA? (gliderx5@comcast.net) 26. 08:22 PM - Re: changes in EAA? (Kirkds) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:38 AM PST US From: "Pat Ladd" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Rotax provision Hi, my Challenger had a belt drive and I assume that they are all the same . Talk to an owner. There were no problems with the engine but I did have a couple of belts go sick on me Pat ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:16:09 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? From: "Richard Pike" You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been a member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh. Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our end of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363821#363821 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:36 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? From: "Ducati SS" Remember the land grab 15 or 20 years ago. I knew then something was rotten at EAA. That was followed by years of telling us to support the LSA proposal, we were supposed to be able to buy a new plane for the cost of a mid sized sedan. They never mentioned that sedan was a high end BMW. Like so many organizations with noble beginnings EAA is now all about self promotion and money. The only reason I remain a member is the local chapter which is a good group of people. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363823#363823 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:59 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop The Full Narrative doesnt go into much detail Bob Kolbers: Be interesting to know the history of Ellery's Warp Drive Prop. Wasn't it one of the first generation Warps? or very early on in WD's history? I have flown WD props since 1993 on my 582, 912UL, and 912ULS. All have had the HP Hub. That hub has been upgraded several times since I got my first one. Direct drive engines had problems with WD props because of the lack of torsional vibration dampening, if I recall correctly. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:13 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: Re: Kolb-List: changes in EAA? They got fat under the tutelage of "little Tommy" as I disrespectfully like to call him...:-) They are not immune to the economy either...To survive, they will reach out to whomever offers them some crumbs.. I think we all know that Experimental Aviation grew as an offshoot of the boomers and their parents from WWII.. It is now under the auspices of those who grew up in front of a tv playing games or watching Sesame Street.. Whole different mind set...Glass cockpits...100k planes...etc.. lots of neat gadgets...weather on your cell phone...good stuff....that most of us cannot afford.. It is going to be interesting to watch their outreach to the grass roots...even ultra lite owners...:-) Where ever they think there is a buck... Wonder if they know how to stoop that low?? :-) Herb At 09:27 PM 1/14/2012, you wrote: >Hey Folks: > >The EAA canned a bunch of people today. Some reports suggest 35 were >let go. A press release is full of wall-street corporate gobblygook >about "capturing opportunities in its long term strategic plan" and >that sort of thing. I'm pretty certain that we will continue to see >the EAA look more and more like the NBAA and AOPA. More of the stuff >that I really could care less about, and fewer of the people and >airplanes that make my world go around. > >Oh well, nothing new, really. > >Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker >Michigan Sport Pilot Repair >LSRM-A, PPC, WS >Great Sails - Sailmaker >for Ultralight & Light Sport >(989)513-3022 > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:10 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? -----Original Message----- You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been a member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh. -------- Richard Pike Kolbers: Been a member since 1984. A couple reasons I remain active: -To belong to my EAA Chapter 822. -A requirement for Falcon Insurance for the old MKIII. In the old days, I used to read the Experimenter and UL Flying from cover to cover. After 20 years I dropped UL Flying. I still get Sport Aviation because that is part of the EAA membership. However, I have difficulty finding much of anything of interest to me. It's hard to get as big as EAA, with all that money, power, and prestige involved, and still be in business for most of us, the little guys. Honestly, I don't think EAA ever accepted us, but grudgeonly tolerated us. I have to ignore the elite looking down their noses at anyone associated with ultralights. Many years ago when I built my MKIII and got an N number, I would quickly correct anyone who referred to Miss P'fer as an ultralight with, "Not an ultralight. See the N number on the tail boom. She's an experimental." Now days when asked about my MKIII, I usually refer to her as an ultralight. I am proud of my airplane and her accomplishments. I am proud that she is an ultralight with an N number. john h mkIII Panama City, Florida ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:00 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: He assumed I knew what I was doing... From: "Ducati SS" The 447 on my firefly has a total of 13hrs. and the PTO EGT has read 60 to 75 degrees high from initial break in to present. Jetting changes helped but then I had to accept an over rich mixture on the mag side. I pulled the motor and it failed a pressure test. Leaking at the intake manifold. A straight across the cylinders showed them to be fine. The straight edge across the manifold was another story, way off. I reworked the mating surface and performed another pressure test, no leak. I will not know until spring if this solved the problem. One of the drawbacks to the 447 and 503 design is that it makes pressure testing the manifold difficult. To properly seal the exhaust ports requires removing the blower housing and installing block off plates, but this means disturbing the intake gaskets. Regardless the manifold was not straight. A side note to this is that the intake assembly was probably the sloppiest i have ever encountered. The mag side gasket was the worst, sticking up from the floor of the port close to 1/8". The worst place to have an obstruction as flow initiates at the port floor. The manifold also had some quite severe casting flaws perpendicular to flow. Spent hours reworking interior of manifold and trimming gaskets. Wish I had time to rework the ports and cases but to many other mods on the list. Almost forgot, I am very suspicious of my EGT instrument, I am going to swap it for one of the B Lite led units. The above initial pressure test was done with new gaskets. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363848#363848 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight From: Rick Neilsen Rick I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe below gross weight than going 20 percent over factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is a bit less than the 200+ you talk about. My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise wet and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly. Rick Neilsen Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their designs, > and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would have used > a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry standard) so the > ultimate load would be 6 g's. > Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no > deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a > fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your > chances of hitting it are slim and nil. > Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, not > down. > Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for > 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+ > VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb. > I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the > low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I > worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I > do about limit load. > > Rick Girard > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:11 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the new warp designes? boyd y mkiii 912 warp drive 68 inch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The =9CFull Narrative=9D doesn=99t go into much detail, but the fact that all three blades showed chordwise cracks as an apparent combination of fatigue and static overload I would think would be a real concern. The lab report didn=99t say so, but one would assume that is the precursor for the delams and eventual shedding of parts. The report has one phrase about =9Cbending forward under airload.=9D??? Some of the Warp hubs had the crack problem a few years back, but I think most people consider the blades pretty much bullet proof. So seems to me you end up with two primary likely scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....or, more likely, something in this particular configuration caused higher inplane loads than normal and led to the chordwise cracks. In the certified world there would be a bunch of expensive rotor dynamics manpower and computers calculating coupled modal frequency placement followed by an order of magnitude more expensive strain gaged flight test. One would hope that if there are other instances of =9Ctransverse=9D cracks in the trailing edges of similar blades, then that information would be quickly shared regarding types of aircraft and engine, time in service, etc. ... Bob ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:13 AM PST US From: "Beauford " Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? Amen, Brother Pike: To me, the real yardstick for measuring the shift in the center of gravity of the EAA can be found in the mix of airplanes which show up at Airventure and Sun n Fun (even though the latter is no longer an "official" EAA event)... The areas set aside for ultralights and "poor-boy" rag and tube aviation have shrunk dramatically in the last ten years... the vendors and participants renting space in the UL spaces are choked down to less than half of their original number, and the ones which remain tell stories about the fees charged to them by the shows having doubled and tripled in the last few years. I have personally heard two of the few who remain commenting about the dying UL environment and wondering whether it is even worth returning the next year. In contrast, the great carnival ways at the shows are crammed with "sport" machines with glass panel displays and price tags more commonly associated with a four bedroom house. At this end of the show it is possible to stand on blue astroturf and be "pitched" by an immaculately coiffed, gold chain bedecked, individual in $200 Ray-Bans and a monogrammed jump suit festooned with what appear to be Congolese Air Force Pilot wings and the name "Lance" on the pocket... If he sizes you up as having shaved that morning and observes that your neck is draped with a Canon or Nikon, vice some lesser brand, he may deign to suffer you to briefly sit in the front seat of a quarter million dollar toy which appears, on closer inspection, to actually be a depraved Super Cub in drag... This downward slide into glossiness is easily tracked in the EAA and UL/LSA trade magazines... The EAA "Experimenter" of fifteen or twenty years ago had a totally different target audience and focus than it has today. I have a stack of the old ones in a closet... They contain articles and detailed discussions about actually putting tab A into slot B and doing innovative, inexpensive things with non-exotic materials to safely get into the air with a minimal commitment of bucks in something you actually built yourself. The objective wasn't to go real fast or look real sexy...only to fly and have fun on a budget which would not cause a man to lie awake all night counting the popcorn lumps on the ceiling and wondering how he was going to pay off the airplane loan. These old magazines contained no endless, look-alike "pilot reports" on equally look-alike airplanes from Czechoslovakia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Croatia, or wherever... the least expensive of which cost at least double the annual wages of the average wanna-be pilot/builder reading the magazine. I believe the evidence clearly supports the contention that the EAA has morphed from an organization dedicated to supporting the needs and aspirations of the rank and file amateur aviation enthusiast, into a slick, well lubricated money extraction machine intent on sucking every possible shekel out of the hide of anyone who shows an interest in airplanes. It is big business... and it ain't about "us" any more.... They no longer get my money or support. Mebbe the time has come for another "EAA" to crank up... a real one... again. Ranted-out beauford FF-076 Brandon, FL Do Not Archive -----------------------------original message-------------------------- You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been a member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh. Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our end of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath. -------- Richard Pike ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop From: Ellery Batchelder Jr the older version of the warp blades but they are not foam core but I am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material Ellery Batchelder Jr. -----Original Message----- From: b young Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2012 12:11 pm Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the ne w warp designes? boyd y mkiii 912 warp drive 68 inch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The =9CFull Narrative=9D doesn=99t go into much detail, b ut the fact that all three blades showed chordwise cracks as an apparent co mbination of fatigue and static overload I would think would be a real conc ern. The lab report didn=99t say so, but one would assume that is the precursor for the delams and eventual shedding of parts. The report ha s one phrase about =9Cbending forward under airload.=9D??? So me of the Warp hubs had the crack problem a few years back, but I think mos t people consider the blades pretty much bullet proof. So seems to me you end up with two primary likely scenarios.....you got three bum blades..... or, more likely, something in this particular configuration caused higher i nplane loads than normal and led to the chordwise cracks. In the certifie d world there would be a bunch of expensive rotor dynamics manpower and com puters calculating coupled modal frequency placement followed by an order o f magnitude more expensive strain gaged flight test. One would hope that if there are other instances of =9Ctransverse =9D cracks in the trailing edges of similar blades, then that informatio n would be quickly shared regarding types of aircraft and engine, time in s ervice, etc. ... Bob -= - The Kolb-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List - -======================== -= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:03 AM PST US From: john taylor Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA?--amen, brothers... pike n beauford.- john bowman prvlle, la=0A=0A =0A=0A____________________ ____________=0A From: Beauford =0ATo: kolb-list@ma tronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:10 AM=0ASubject: RE: Kolb- " =0A=0AAmen, Brother Pike:=0A=0ATo me, the real yardstick for measuring the shift in the center of gravity=0Aof the EAA can be found in the=0Amix of airplanes which show up at Airventure and Sun n F un (even though the=0Alatter is no longer an "official"=0AEAA event)...- The areas set aside for ultralights and "poor-boy" rag and=0Atube aviation have shrunk dramatically=0Ain the last ten years... the vendors and partici pants renting space in the=0AUL spaces are choked down to less than half of =0Atheir original number, and the ones which remain tell stories about the fees=0Acharged to them by the shows having=0Adoubled and tripled in the las t few years. I have personally heard two of=0Athe few who remain commenting about the dying=0AUL environment and wondering whether it is even worth re turning the next=0Ayear.=0A=0AIn contrast, the great carnival ways at the s hows are crammed with "sport"=0Amachines with glass panel displays and pric e tags=0Amore commonly associated with a four bedroom house. At this end of the show=0Ait is possible to stand on blue astroturf and be "pitched" by a n=0Aimmaculately coiffed, gold chain bedecked, individual in $200 Ray-Bans and a=0Amonogrammed jump suit festooned with what appear to be Congolese Ai r Force=0APilot wings and the name "Lance" on the pocket...- If he sizes you up as=0Ahaving shaved that morning and observes that your neck is drape d with a=0ACanon or Nikon, vice some lesser brand, he may deign to suffer y ou to=0Abriefly sit in the front seat of a quarter million dollar toy which appears,=0Aon closer inspection, to actually be a depraved Super Cub in dr ag... =0A=0AThis downward slide into glossiness is easily tracked in the EA A and UL/LSA=0Atrade magazines...- The- EAA "Experimenter" of fifteen o r twenty years ago=0Ahad a totally different target audience and focus than it has today.- I have=0Aa stack of the old ones in a closet...- They c ontain articles and detailed=0Adiscussions about actually putting tab A int o slot B and doing innovative,=0Ainexpensive things with non-exotic materia ls to safely get into the air with=0Aa minimal commitment of bucks in somet hing you actually built yourself.- The=0Aobjective wasn't to go real fast or look real sexy...only to fly and have=0Afun on a budget which would not cause a man to lie awake all night counting=0Athe popcorn lumps on the cei ling and wondering how he was going to pay off=0Athe airplane loan. These o ld magazines contained no endless, look-alike=0A"pilot reports" on equally look-alike airplanes from Czechoslovakia,=0ALithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Cro atia, or wherever... the least expensive of=0Awhich cost at least double th e annual wages of the average wanna-be=0Apilot/builder reading the magazine .=0A=0AI believe the evidence clearly supports the contention that the EAA has=0Amorphed from an organization dedicated to=0Asupporting the needs and aspirations of the rank and file amateur aviation=0Aenthusiast, into a slic k, well lubricated money=0Aextraction machine intent on sucking every possi ble shekel out of the hide=0Aof anyone who shows an interest in airplanes. =0A=0AIt is big business... and it ain't about "us" any more....- They no longer=0Aget my money or support.=0A=0AMebbe the time has come for another "EAA" to crank up...- - a real one...=0Aagain.=0A=0ARanted-out beaufor d=0AFF-076=0ABrandon, FL=0ADo Not Archive=0A=0A---------------------------- -original message--------------------------=0A--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" =0A=0AYou have to wonder. I did no t renew my EAA membership this last year, been a=0Amember since 1980, but E AA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but=0Aabout "Recreational" ai rcraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's=0Ato Super Connies. Tha t and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend=0Amoney at "Airventure. " It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh.=0A=0AMaybe somebody turne d on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our=0Aend of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath.=0A=0A--------=0ARichard Pike=0A ================== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:28 AM PST US From: Herb Gayheart Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? Don't let this go to your head...but you would make Samuel Langhorne Clemens envious... :-) Herb (who is headed to the golf course with a bottle of Southern Comfort..) gotta stay warm!! A man may have no bad habits and have worse. SLC .. At 11:10 AM 1/15/2012, you wrote: > >Amen, Brother Pike: > >To me, the real yardstick for measuring the shift in the center of gravity >of the EAA can be found in the >mix of airplanes which show up at Airventure and Sun n Fun (even though the >latter is no longer an "official" >EAA event)... The areas set aside for ultralights and "poor-boy" rag and >tube aviation have shrunk dramatically >in the last ten years... the vendors and participants renting space in the >UL spaces are choked down to less than half of >their original number, and the ones which remain tell stories about the fees >charged to them by the shows having >doubled and tripled in the last few years. I have personally heard two of >the few who remain commenting about the dying >UL environment and wondering whether it is even worth returning the next >year. > >In contrast, the great carnival ways at the shows are crammed with "sport" >machines with glass panel displays and price tags >more commonly associated with a four bedroom house. At this end of the show >it is possible to stand on blue astroturf and be "pitched" by an >immaculately coiffed, gold chain bedecked, individual in $200 Ray-Bans and a >monogrammed jump suit festooned with what appear to be Congolese Air Force >Pilot wings and the name "Lance" on the pocket... If he sizes you up as >having shaved that morning and observes that your neck is draped with a >Canon or Nikon, vice some lesser brand, he may deign to suffer you to >briefly sit in the front seat of a quarter million dollar toy which appears, >on closer inspection, to actually be a depraved Super Cub in drag... > >This downward slide into glossiness is easily tracked in the EAA and UL/LSA >trade magazines... The EAA "Experimenter" of fifteen or twenty years ago >had a totally different target audience and focus than it has today. I have >a stack of the old ones in a closet... They contain articles and detailed >discussions about actually putting tab A into slot B and doing innovative, >inexpensive things with non-exotic materials to safely get into the air with >a minimal commitment of bucks in something you actually built yourself. The >objective wasn't to go real fast or look real sexy...only to fly and have >fun on a budget which would not cause a man to lie awake all night counting >the popcorn lumps on the ceiling and wondering how he was going to pay off >the airplane loan. These old magazines contained no endless, look-alike >"pilot reports" on equally look-alike airplanes from Czechoslovakia, >Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Croatia, or wherever... the least expensive of >which cost at least double the annual wages of the average wanna-be >pilot/builder reading the magazine. > >I believe the evidence clearly supports the contention that the EAA has >morphed from an organization dedicated to >supporting the needs and aspirations of the rank and file amateur aviation >enthusiast, into a slick, well lubricated money >extraction machine intent on sucking every possible shekel out of the hide >of anyone who shows an interest in airplanes. > >It is big business... and it ain't about "us" any more.... They no longer >get my money or support. > >Mebbe the time has come for another "EAA" to crank up... a real one... >again. > >Ranted-out beauford >FF-076 >Brandon, FL >Do Not Archive > >-----------------------------original message-------------------------- > >You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been a >member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but >about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's >to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend >money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh. > >Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our >end of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath. > >-------- >Richard Pike > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:05 AM PST US From: "Ron @ KFHU" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: changes in EAA? Yup EAA went through cultural migration upward$. Hire more people get bigger, need bigger budgets for the MBA's who want to be paid more. Then they get into bed with the FAA and now they are Big time, having meetings about regulatory issues, before they knew it they were spending more time on external affairs than Kit planes Kolbs and "experimenters". Makes me wonder just how many of the fancy suites there ever get their hands dirty on pre-mix, and aluminum tubes. Like everything else, dad worked with his hands made success, sent son to College, son came back with clean hands and numbers in his head, hired people to maximize numbers, surprise,,, numbers don't pay the bills people who work do. do not archive Ron @ KFHU ---- Herb Gayheart wrote: ============ They got fat under the tutelage of "little Tommy" as I disrespectfully like to call him...:-) They are not immune to the economy either...To survive, they will reach out to whomever offers them some crumbs.. I think we all know that Experimental Aviation grew as an offshoot of the boomers and their parents from WWII.. It is now under the auspices of those who grew up in front of a tv playing games or watching Sesame Street.. Whole different mind set...Glass cockpits...100k planes...etc.. lots of neat gadgets...weather on your cell phone...good stuff....that most of us cannot afford.. It is going to be interesting to watch their outreach to the grass roots...even ultra lite owners...:-) Where ever they think there is a buck... Wonder if they know how to stoop that low?? :-) Herb At 09:27 PM 1/14/2012, you wrote: >Hey Folks: > >The EAA canned a bunch of people today. Some reports suggest 35 were >let go. A press release is full of wall-street corporate gobblygook >about "capturing opportunities in its long term strategic plan" and >that sort of thing. I'm pretty certain that we will continue to see >the EAA look more and more like the NBAA and AOPA. More of the stuff >that I really could care less about, and fewer of the people and >airplanes that make my world go around. > >Oh well, nothing new, really. > >Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker >Michigan Sport Pilot Repair >LSRM-A, PPC, WS >Great Sails - Sailmaker >for Ultralight & Light Sport >(989)513-3022 > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >http://www.matronics.com/contribution > -- kugelair.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight From: Richard Girard They're putting Rotax 912's on Kolb's? Really? Well, what will they think of next? All up installed weight of a 912 is right at 140 lb. dry. The 582 complete with Honda Sabre radiator is 115. I averaged the VW weight between Valley Engineering's weight of 185 and that reported by Wayne Clagg for his fat fin VW at 224 installed on his Zenith 701, also with a VE redrive. Rick On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote: > Rick > > I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe > below gross weight than going 20 percent over > factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you > figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware > that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines > weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is > a bit less than the 200+ you talk about. > > My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise wet > and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV > paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the > seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation > and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed > a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be > real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly. > > Rick Neilsen > Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > >> I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their designs, >> and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would have used >> a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry standard) so the >> ultimate load would be 6 g's. >> Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no >> deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a >> fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your >> chances of hitting it are slim and nil. >> Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, not >> down. >> Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for >> 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+ >> VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb. >> I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the >> low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I >> worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I >> do about limit load. >> >> Rick Girard >> >> >> * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop From: Richard Girard Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005 vintage. Rick Girad On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr wrote: > **the older version of the warp blades but they are not foam core but I > am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material > > *Ellery Batchelder Jr.* > > > -----Original Message----- > From: b young > To: kolb-list > Sent: Sun, Jan 15, 2012 12:11 pm > Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop > > ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the > new warp designes? > > boyd y > mkiii 912 warp drive 68 inch > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > The =93Full Narrative=94 doesn=92t go into much detail, but the fact that all > three blades showed chordwise cracks as an apparent combination of fatigu e > and static overload I would think would be a real concern. The lab > report didn=92t say so, but one would assume that is the precursor for th e > delams and eventual shedding of parts. The report has one phrase about > =93bending forward under airload.=94??? Some of the Warp hubs had the c rack > problem a few years back, but I think most people consider the blades > pretty much bullet proof. So seems to me you end up with two primary > likely scenarios.....you got three bum blades.....or, more likely, > something in this particular configuration caused higher inplane loads th an > normal and led to the chordwise cracks. In the certified world there > would be a bunch of expensive rotor dynamics manpower and computers > calculating coupled modal frequency placement followed by an order of > magnitude more expensive strain gaged flight test. > > One would hope that if there are other instances of =93transverse=94 crac ks in > the trailing edges of similar blades, then that information would be > quickly shared regarding types of aircraft and engine, time in service, > etc. ... > > Bob > > > * > > get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > p://forums.matronics.com > blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution > * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:36:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA?--amen, brothers... From: Richard Girard It's funny that Paul P. said pretty much the same thing about where Tommy took the organization and actually started the Sport Aircraft Association for awhile. I knew the end had come when Experimenter became Sport Pilot whose dedication was "Those who buy, fly and.....Light Sport Aircraft". Well, that and the renewal questionaire that has 10 reasons for joining EAA, NOT ONE of which is I am building or want to build an airplane. When I was building a LongEZ there was much ado about no longer having a gathering at Oshkosh because EAA was demanding that the group rent EAA's tent, buy their hot dogs from EAA's vendor, and on and on. I continue my membership so I can be a local chapter member, but I have no use at all for national and will probably never go AirVenture as I just can't afford it. Rick Girard On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:50 AM, john taylor wrote: > pike n beauford. john bowman prvlle, la > > *From:* Beauford > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:10 AM > *Subject:* RE: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? > > > Amen, Brother Pike: > > To me, the real yardstick for measuring the shift in the center of gravity > of the EAA can be found in the > mix of airplanes which show up at Airventure and Sun n Fun (even though the > latter is no longer an "official" > EAA event)... The areas set aside for ultralights and "poor-boy" rag and > tube aviation have shrunk dramatically > in the last ten years... the vendors and participants renting space in the > UL spaces are choked down to less than half of > their original number, and the ones which remain tell stories about the > fees > charged to them by the shows having > doubled and tripled in the last few years. I have personally heard two of > the few who remain commenting about the dying > UL environment and wondering whether it is even worth returning the next > year. > > In contrast, the great carnival ways at the shows are crammed with "sport" > machines with glass panel displays and price tags > more commonly associated with a four bedroom house. At this end of the show > it is possible to stand on blue astroturf and be "pitched" by an > immaculately coiffed, gold chain bedecked, individual in $200 Ray-Bans and > a > monogrammed jump suit festooned with what appear to be Congolese Air Force > Pilot wings and the name "Lance" on the pocket... If he sizes you up as > having shaved that morning and observes that your neck is draped with a > Canon or Nikon, vice some lesser brand, he may deign to suffer you to > briefly sit in the front seat of a quarter million dollar toy which > appears, > on closer inspection, to actually be a depraved Super Cub in drag... > > This downward slide into glossiness is easily tracked in the EAA and UL/LSA > trade magazines... The EAA "Experimenter" of fifteen or twenty years ago > had a totally different target audience and focus than it has today. I > have > a stack of the old ones in a closet... They contain articles and detailed > discussions about actually putting tab A into slot B and doing innovative, > inexpensive things with non-exotic materials to safely get into the air > with > a minimal commitment of bucks in something you actually built yourself. > The > objective wasn't to go real fast or look real sexy...only to fly and have > fun on a budget which would not cause a man to lie awake all night counting > the popcorn lumps on the ceiling and wondering how he was going to pay off > the airplane loan. These old magazines contained no endless, look-alike > "pilot reports" on equally look-alike airplanes from Czechoslovakia, > Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine, Croatia, or wherever... the least expensive of > which cost at least double the annual wages of the average wanna-be > pilot/builder reading the magazine. > > I believe the evidence clearly supports the contention that the EAA has > morphed from an organization dedicated to > supporting the needs and aspirations of the rank and file amateur aviation > enthusiast, into a slick, well lubricated money > extraction machine intent on sucking every possible shekel out of the hide > of anyone who shows an interest in airplanes. > > It is big business... and it ain't about "us" any more.... They no longer > get my money or support. > > Mebbe the time has come for another "EAA" to crank up... a real one... > again. > > Ranted-out beauford > FF-076 > Brandon, FL > Do Not Archive > > -----------------------------original message-------------------------- > > You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been > a > member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but > about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's > to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend > money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh. > > Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our > end of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breaArchive Search & > Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, gt; > > > > > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:57 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop the older version of the warp blades but they are not foam core but I am not sure what it is ,its a tan color hard material Ellery Batchelder Jr. ********* ok... are we talking the warp blades of the early foam core,,, or the new warp designes? Boyd y ************ Daryl sent me two sets of WD props to test on my Firestar in 1989. Both sets were solid carbon fiber. I didn't know they made a "cored" blade until Ellery had his fail. BTW: I didn't like the square tip or the fast taper tip blades. I was hooked on Jim Culver's two blade with polyurethane edges. Believe it was a 60X30 or 32, and worked perfect with the 447 and the FS. Seems that WD system (cored) should be well over 20 years old. Don't think it stayed in production but a short time. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:36 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005 vintage. ***************** That's hardly enough to call it a core. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:34 PM PST US From: "Dennis Souder" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop Isn't Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125 thick? (Grammatically that is what he is saying.) If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker section at the root, then that is another. I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut from. Dennis From: owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hauck Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:59 PM Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a 2005 vintage. ***************** That's hardly enough to call it a core. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop From: Richard Girard Dennis, John, I made a 67" prop out of a 70". Here's a shot of the parts left over. I didn't take the time to really polish them, but there is some difference in the material. Perhaps it some of that rare albino carbon. Rick On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Dennis Souder wrote: > Isn=92t Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125 > thick? (Grammatically that is what he is saying.)**** > > If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker > section at the root, then that is another.**** > > I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut > from.**** > > Dennis**** > > ** ** > > *From:* owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-kolb-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *John Hauck > *Sent:* Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:59 PM > *To:* kolb-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Warp Drive props still have some sort of core, but I cannot tell you what > it is. When I cut one down last Monday the first thing I noticed was that > the center of each blade was a light gray color surrounded by the black > carbon surface material which is about .09 to .12 thick. This prop is a > 2005 vintage.**** > > ** ** > > * ****************** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > That's hardly enough to call it a core.**** > > ** ** > > john h**** > > mkIII**** > > Titus, Alabama**** > > * * > > * * > > * * > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List* > > ** > > ** > > *http://forums.matronics.com* > > ** > > ** > > ** > > ** > > *http://www.matronics.com/contribution* > > ** > > * * > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:58 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: Warp Drive prop Isn't Rick saying the carbon fiber surface material is only .09 to .125 thick? (Grammatically that is what he is saying.) If that is at the tip, it is one thing, but if that is at the thicker section at the root, then that is another. I would be interested to know where along the blade that section was cut from. Dennis Dennis/Kolbers: Yes, you are correct. I misunderstood what he was saying. I don't see a core in his photos. I have also cut off WD blades to shorten. All I cut were solid. I have a photo of GSC and a WD blade grips sawn down the middle to compare the construction of each grip. The WD grip uses a small wooden down, a steel ring for reversing the direction of the carbon fiber strands. Those strands run from tip to grip, around the steel ring and back to the tip. The only other thing that I know of used during construction is epoxy or whatever is used to bind the carbon fibers. john ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:37:16 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? From: "David d." I was looking over the Sun and Fun website. Maybe thinking about going. I notice if you are an EAA member, the ticket price is discounted from $35 to $30. Is S and F an EAA sponsered event? -------- Kolb Mark IIIX 582 Blue head Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363916#363916 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:27 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? From: "ces308" Richard Pike wrote: > You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, been a member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, but about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172's to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh. > > Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to our end of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath. Agreed....I dropped out a long time ago...ever since Uncle Tom took over it turned into a BIG money thing...At first I was angry at the food vendors ,with their $5. pops and little sausage muffins for another $5.,until I found out how much the EAA was charging them to be there !!!! It seems unless you own a million dollar warbird,you need to just go away ! I remember going there with a $100.00 in my pocket and still having money to go home on...Now you can't even get in the dang place...if you could show a pilot license,you got into the fly wears part for free...not a chance now ! Thanks for posting....I thought I was the only one that felt this way ! chris ambrose M3X Jabiru A -2200 N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363926#363926 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:32:43 PM PST US From: gliderx5@comcast.net Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? I understand the frustration and disappointment with the EAA. I feel the sa me. But what do we do about it? Voicing our opinions on forums like this is a good start, but it needs to go further. It needs to be brought to the at tention of the EAA staff. However, as with any complaint, it should be acco mpanied with recommended solutions. So, let=99s keep the complaints c oming, but let=99s start throwing in viable solutions with them. I agree that for me, =9CExperimenter=9D was a better magazine t han =9CSport Pilot=9D. In fact I switched from =9CSport P ilot=9D to =9CSport Aviation=9D because of the change in format. I=99m a low end guy who builds and flys Kolbs, Titans, and Pi etenpols. An RV would be nice, but it=99s out of my price range. I li ke to read about real economical projects (airplanes, hangars, grass strips , tools, how to stuff, etc). What are we as a group looking that we are not getting in a magazine? Perhaps we should start submitting articles of our own to the magazine. Editors are often struggling to fill the pages, so how about we start to fill it with what WE want. I still enjoy Airventure, but you are correct that it has shifted away from the grass roots feeling to a big dollar event. Participation down on the f arm has been declining. I suppose that the costs for vendors just make the trip not worthwhile. If I were new to the experimental aviation world I wou ld probably not know about a Volksplane, Teenie Two, Fly Baby, or any of th e older scratch built designs. I might not venture down to the ultralight a rea since there are so few airplanes down there to look at, thereby missing Kolb=99s and Titan=99s exhibits all together. What can we do? How about taking back our event? Everyone knows about RVs b ecause the RV owners fill the homebuilt area with hundreds of them, and the y=99re great airplanes. But few know about the affordable alternative s that we all fly. It=99s up to us to show them, and it=99s up to us to show the EAA staff that we still exist. What if we could fill the ultralight area and homebuilt area with hundreds of OUR airplanes. Wouldn =99t that be cool. I trailered my MKII to Airventure 2 years ago, and weather permitting I plan to fly my Titan Tornado there this year. Why not join me? It will be fun! So let=99s keep the gripes coming, but don=99t forget the solut ions. If your solution is not viable don=99t worry. Someone will let you know. But at least it gets the ideas out there. Malcolm Morrison Port Matilda , PA mmorrison123@comcast.net http://home.comcast.net/~mmorrison123/Airplanes.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "ces308" Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:54:02 PM Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? Richard Pike wrote: > You have to wonder. I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, bee n a member since 1980, but EAA was no long about "Experimental" aircraft, b ut about "Recreational" aircraft, which included everything from Cessna 172 's to Super Connies. That and the constant over emphasis on coming to spend money at "Airventure." It was so much better when it was just Oshkosh. > > Maybe somebody turned on the lights and they'll wake up and get back to o ur end of the flying spectrum, but I'm not holding my breath. Agreed....I dropped out a long time ago...ever since Uncle Tom took over it turned into a BIG money thing...At first I was angry at the food vendors , with their $5. pops and little sausage muffins for another $5.,until I foun d out how much the EAA was charging them to be there !!!! It seems unless y ou own a million dollar warbird,you need to just go away ! I remember going there with a $100.00 in my pocket and still having money to go home on...N ow you can't even get in the dang place...if you could show a pilot license ,you got into the fly wears part for free...not a chance now ! Thanks for p osting....I thought I was the only one that felt this way ! chris ambrose M3X Jabiru A -2200 N327CS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363926#363926 =========== =========== =========== =========== ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:32 PM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? From: "Kirkds" EAA got the last dollar they'll get from me years ago. -------- Kirk Smith Columbiaville, MI Firestar II "Once you accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy" Albert Einstein Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363946#363946 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.