---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/16/12: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:50 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 (George Bearden) 2. 12:54 AM - Re: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 (George Bearden) 3. 07:19 AM - Re: changes in EAA? (Richard Pike) 4. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight (Rick Neilsen) 5. 09:21 AM - Fw: mz 201 (chris davis) 6. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: changes in EAA? (Dana Hague) 7. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: changes in EAA? (Larry Cottrell) 8. 10:46 AM - Re: Re: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 (Rick Neilsen) 9. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight (Richard Girard) 10. 04:19 PM - Re: Re: Did you know crows snowboard? was >changes in EAA? (Eugene Zimmerman) 11. 05:34 PM - michigan kolberPARTY (Malcolm Brubaker) 12. 08:01 PM - Did you know crows snowboard? (David Kulp) 13. 09:21 PM - Blade Grip Comparison, GSC and Warp Drive (John Hauck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:05 AM PST US From: "George Bearden" Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 > I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, I won't renew until they offer something I want. Actually I like the 'how-to' things they offer, videos and all. But I feel like I am as likely, or more likely to find someone else has posted a how-to on Youtube that meets my needs. I DO NOT want to even look at another expensive LSA. If I wanted LSAs why would I join "Experimental" AA? Another thing is they are too blame expensive. What do I get for my money? A museum I can't afford to visit because it is 2000 miles away. Discount on attending AV, also 2,000 miles away. Lobbying? Maybe- but I feel like they are lobbying ME for more money. I suppose they lobby for us but who can say about the cost or value? If *I* were King, I think I would have more of a parade of experimental/homebuilts/ultralights instead of big expensive airshows. Military stuff is big and exciting, but let's keep cost down huh? If the military does it for free, OK. I would make Oshkosh more of a swap meet and display place for OUR kind of planes. All the big money the giant booth renters pay just squeezes out the little guys. Raises the bar too high. I doubt I'll go back. Well, maybe. I did make some great contacts there. Took some detailed pics that were a big help. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:52 AM PST US From: "George Bearden" Subject: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 > I reworked the mating surface and performed another pressure test, no leak. I have worked on a lot of aluminum engines, different kinds and sizes. I have made a personal rule NOT to assemble ANY such engine w/o resurfacing the intake. TOO blame much problems there. I used to use the straight edge, still do, but just for grins. I resurface them anyway. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:50 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? From: "Richard Pike" Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our local sport flying club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html is a member of the U S Ultralight Association http://www.usua.org/ Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of group, but that works for us. -------- Richard Pike Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops) richard (at) bcchapel(dot)org Kingsport, TN 3TN0 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=363994#363994 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight From: Rick Neilsen OK Rick/All I only hear about the 912 dry weight. You can't accurately compare engine weights dry verses ready to fly. So why do 912 powered Kolbs end up weighing about the same as my VW? I'm good but with all I have in my MKIIIC I can't believe by your figures that I have trimmed 60-80lbs off the average stock MKIIIC. My plane weighs 598lbs., the old high mount with the 5lb. engine adapter was 604lbs. That is two weighings years apart with two different sets of scales Could it be that VWs and Rotax engines are heavyer than Rotax is advertising? I guess we need to watch the weights as more of the VW powered Kolbs are being built. VW engines aren't sold for our Kolbs as a package yet. Be careful what you put on them. If you don't they will get heavy. I don't recommend a magneto and certainly not two, they are heavy, expensive, under powered, and unreliable. I got about a pound off the diel accessory case by removing two unused mounting ears and drilling lightning holes(the bed mount we use doesn't stress this case like the difocal mount did). Also if I changed to the new 100cc bigger bore nickasil cylinders, that do a better job transferring heat, I would cut another 10lbs. And there is now a lighter starter than what I have, scratch another pound. My point is that a well built redrive VW engine will end up weighing within single digits in US pounds of the 10-15 thousand dollar more expensive Rotax 912. If you fly over remote parts of Alaska buy the Rotax. If you don't and don't mind experimenting a bit try a VW. With every new VW built we get a better and more standardized engine. Rick Neilsen 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > They're putting Rotax 912's on Kolb's? Really? Well, what will they think > of next? > All up installed weight of a 912 is right at 140 lb. dry. The 582 complete > with Honda Sabre radiator is 115. I averaged the VW weight between Valley > Engineering's weight of 185 and that reported by Wayne Clagg for his fat > fin VW at 224 installed on his Zenith 701, also with a VE redrive. > > Rick > > On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote: > >> Rick >> >> I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe >> below gross weight than going 20 percent over >> factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you >> figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware >> that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines >> weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is >> a bit less than the 200+ you talk about. >> >> My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise >> wet and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV >> paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the >> seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation >> and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed >> a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be >> real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly. >> >> Rick Neilsen >> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC >> >> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote: >> >>> I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their >>> designs, and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would >>> have used a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry >>> standard) so the ultimate load would be 6 g's. >>> Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no >>> deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a >>> fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your >>> chances of hitting it are slim and nil. >>> Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, not >>> down. >>> Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for >>> 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+ >>> VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb. >>> I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the >>> low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I >>> worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I >>> do about limit load. >>> >>> Rick Girard >>> >>> >>> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Zulu Delta > Mk IIIC > Thanks, Homer GBYM > > It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. > - Groucho Marx > > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:21:13 AM PST US From: chris davis Subject: Kolb-List: Fw: mz 201 Phil and interested Kolbers, The following is the updatefrom Leon on the MZ =C2-201 with fan cooling .=C2- Chris=0A=0A=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A =0A----- Forwa rded Message -----=0AFrom: Leon Massa =0ATo: 'chris d avis' =0ASent: Monday, January 16, 2012 11:33 AM=0ASu bject: RE: mz 201=0A =0A=0AChris,=0AI only got a chance yesterday to go to work and actually weigh all the bits and pieces for all of the different e ngines and configurations. During normal work hours I=99m so busy tha t I figured I would go on a weekend while nobody was there and the phone do esn=99t ring..=0AA complete MZ201 with fan cooling is 69.8lbs. Just l ike I originally thought. The fan cooling option actually weighs less than if it was free air cooled with electric and pull starter.=0AThe engine itse lf is 61.8lbs and the exhaust is 8lbs. The only thing I didn=99t add (I only just remembered now) was the 2 cdi=99s and the voltage regula tor and wiring harness, so add maybe 2lbs. =0ASo, total weight is 71lbs.=0A Cost is $4440.00 for the MZ201 and add $560.00 for the fan cooling option. =0ATotal $5000.00 US$ plus shipping.=0A=C2-=0ALet me know if you need any further info.=0A=C2-=0ARegards=0ALeon=0A=C2-=0A=C2-=0AFrom:chris dav is [mailto:capedavis@yahoo.com] =0ASent: January-16-12 7:56 AM=0ATo: Leon M assa=0ASubject: Re: mz 201=0A=C2-=0ALeon, I still havent heard from you? I am building a Kolb Firefly and am going to buy an engine this year .I wis h to know the weight and cost of a 201 single carb , dual CDI,fan cooled ,b elt reduction? thank you for your time .=C2- Chris=0A=C2-=0AChris Davis =0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from crash building Firefly=0A From:Leon Massa =0ATo: 'chris davis' =0ASent: Friday, December 16, 2011 1:42 AM=0ASubject: RE: mz 201=0A =C2-=0AChris,=0AI can add the fan cooling to the 201 if you like. The wei ght of the engine will be determined by how you want it configured. Single ignition, dual Ignition, belt reduction or gearbox. If you let me know how you want it configured I can give you a final cost and weight. When you add the optional fan cooling you automatically loose the pull starter.=0AOur s tandard 201 weighs 70lbs complete. With fan cooling it only add 1 or 2 lbs. =0A=C2-=0APlease when you reply make sure you reply to this email so I c an keep track of our =9Cdiscussion=9D back and forth. I get 100 =99s of emails and if you don=99t send me back what I have sent you then I have to search all our previous emails.=0AThanks=0ALeon=0A=C2 -=0AFrom:chris davis [mailto:capedavis@yahoo.com] =0ASent: December-15-11 8:06 PM=0ATo: Leon_massa@telus.net=0ASubject: mz 201=0A=C2-=0AHello, I a m considering your engine for a Kolb firefly and I am concerned about cooli ng on the pusher ,I am aware that you said because of the reduced rpms it w ouldnt need fan cooling bu I am thinking that to much=C2-is always enough =C2-.How much does the fan cooling weigh ? How much does the pullstarter weigh? can I leave out the pullstarter and ad the fan cooling and ciome out near equal weight wise?=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2 -=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- the engine is too dear to have overheat if all that is required for safty sake is a cooling fan=0A .=C2-=0AChris Davis=0AKXP 503 492 hrs=0AGlider Pilot=0ADisabled from cras h building Firefly ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:19 AM PST US From: Dana Hague Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? Been a lot of discussion on this over on http://eaaforums.org. Lots of dissatisfied people over there, and the EAA brass is hearing it, if not paying attention to it. USUA is pretty dead too... no magazine, minimal staff... the only reason I'm a member is for the insurance. -Dana At 10:17 AM 1/16/2012, Richard Pike wrote: > >Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our local >sport flying club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers >http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html >is a member of the U S Ultralight Association >http://www.usua.org/ > >Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of group, >but that works for us. -- The American people get the government they deserve, and they get it good and hard. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: changes in EAA? From: Larry Cottrell I too once belonged to the EAA, first to a local chapter. Then I realized that the magazines that the main EAA forced me to take held no interest for me. A friend was able to get his membership without paying for the mags. I did that for a year, then they decided that I had to take the mag whether I wanted it or not, and even worse I had to pay for the damn thing. I decided that I didn't need to belong to the org. either. Fortunately where I live and fly about the only thing that I can need insurance for is myself, so I do not need to belong. Larry On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Dana Hague wrote: > Been a lot of discussion on this over on http://eaaforums.org. Lots of > dissatisfied people over there, and the EAA brass is hearing it, if not > paying attention to it. > > USUA is pretty dead too... no magazine, minimal staff... the only reason > I'm a member is for the insurance. > > -Dana > > At 10:17 AM 1/16/2012, Richard Pike wrote: > > > Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our local > sport flying club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers > http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html > is a member of the U S Ultralight Association > http://www.usua.org/ > > Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of group, > but that works for us. > > > -- > The American people get the government they deserve, and they get it good > and hard. > > * > > * > > -- *If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.* ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:46:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: RE: Kolb-List Digest: 26 Msgs - 01/15/12 From: Rick Neilsen I'm still a member of the EAA. I enjoy going for the full week to Sun-N-Fun and Airventure. I have flown my Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC to AirVenture four times and Sun-N-Fun once. Do I like the way things are going Hell No! I also haven't been just standing by and just watching. I have written Tommy a few times once I got a very good response. I have also written the EAA many times with very limited effect. My biggest mistake was responding to a request in the Experimenter for suggestions on how the Ultralight/LSA area could be better at Airventure. I thought they wanted input, I got a response that was as mean spirited as I have ever heard. I was in summation told that as chair of the ultra light council she would personally make sure that none of my suggestions would ever see the light of day. I slipped one by her one year by getting Tommy to put a port a potty in the UL/LSA Campground but she got even by not allowing it to be serviced all week. The final insult for me was the closing of the UL/LSA campground at Airventure. Sun N Fun is much more fly in friendly but there are limits. My advice is only ask for one thing. It doesn't matter how bad it is or how nice you ask if you list too many things you aren't going to get anywhere. Rick Neilsen On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:47 AM, George Bearden wrote: > > > I did not renew my EAA membership this last year, > > I won't renew until they offer something I want. > > Actually I like the 'how-to' things they offer, videos and all. But I feel > like I am as likely, or more likely to find someone else has posted a > how-to > on Youtube that meets my needs. > > I DO NOT want to even look at another expensive LSA. If I wanted LSAs why > would I join "Experimental" AA? > > Another thing is they are too blame expensive. What do I get for my money? > A > museum I can't afford to visit because it is 2000 miles away. Discount on > attending AV, also 2,000 miles away. Lobbying? Maybe- but I feel like they > are lobbying ME for more money. I suppose they lobby for us but who can say > about the cost or value? > > If *I* were King, I think I would have more of a parade of > experimental/homebuilts/ultralights instead of big expensive airshows. > Military stuff is big and exciting, but let's keep cost down huh? If the > military does it for free, OK. I would make Oshkosh more of a swap meet and > display place for OUR kind of planes. All the big money the giant booth > renters pay just squeezes out the little guys. Raises the bar too high. > > I doubt I'll go back. Well, maybe. I did make some great contacts there. > Took some detailed pics that were a big help. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:26:11 AM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Mk III max takeoff weight From: Richard Girard Rick, My Mk IIIC weighed 530 lb. with a 582 so your VW is at least 68lb. heavier than an installed 582. If you add up all the usual accesories used on a 912 it comes out to 141.56 lb. That includes both radiators, the air filters, the regulator and the exhaust system. Add 10 lb. for the oil tank and lines and you have an installed weight of 152 lb. For that you get an honest 100 hp for take off and an engine that is the energizer bunny of the aviation world. Yes, you pay for all the engineering and 30 years of effort to produce the engine in its present state of tune. Don't get me wrong about VW's. I've been around them for a long time. If I were going to put a new engine on my Mk III and I could keep the weight down to 560 lb. (I still maintain that there's 30 lb. of bad Aerothane on it) I think that would be workable for a VW producing an honest 65 hp. Rick On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote: > OK > > Rick/All > > I only hear about the 912 dry weight. You can't accurately compare engine > weights dry verses ready to fly. So why do 912 powered Kolbs end up > weighing about the same as my VW? I'm good but with all I have in my MKIIIC > I can't believe by your figures that I have trimmed 60-80lbs off the > average stock MKIIIC. My plane weighs 598lbs., the old high mount with the > 5lb. engine adapter was 604lbs. That is two weighings years apart with > two different sets of scales Could it be that VWs and Rotax engines are > heavyer than Rotax is advertising? I guess we need to watch the weights as > more of the VW powered Kolbs are being built. > > VW engines aren't sold for our Kolbs as a package yet. Be careful what you > put on them. If you don't they will get heavy. I don't recommend a magneto > and certainly not two, they are heavy, expensive, under powered, and > unreliable. I got about a pound off the diel accessory case by removing two > unused mounting ears and drilling lightning holes(the bed mount we use > doesn't stress this case like the difocal mount did). Also if I changed to > the new 100cc bigger bore nickasil cylinders, that do a better > job transferring heat, I would cut another 10lbs. And there is now a > lighter starter than what I have, scratch another pound. > > My point is that a well built redrive VW engine will end up weighing > within single digits in US pounds of the 10-15 thousand dollar > more expensive Rotax 912. If you fly over remote parts of Alaska buy the > Rotax. If you don't and don't mind experimenting a bit try a VW. With every > new VW built we get a better and more standardized engine. > > Rick Neilsen > 1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC > > On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 2:14 PM, Richard Girard wrote: > >> They're putting Rotax 912's on Kolb's? Really? Well, what will they think >> of next? >> All up installed weight of a 912 is right at 140 lb. dry. The 582 >> complete with Honda Sabre radiator is 115. I averaged the VW weight between >> Valley Engineering's weight of 185 and that reported by Wayne Clagg for his >> fat fin VW at 224 installed on his Zenith 701, also with a VE redrive. >> >> Rick >> >> On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 11:06 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote: >> >>> Rick >>> >>> I'm real interested in how you figure that a VW on a Kolb is less safe >>> below gross weight than going 20 percent over >>> factory recommended maximum gross weight in a Rotax powered Kolb. Are you >>> figuring this with all of John's modifications at 1200lbs. Are you aware >>> that people put the 912 series of Rotax engines on Kolbs? The 912 engines >>> weigh a bit more than the 110-140 lbs. you are talking about. Also my VW is >>> a bit less than the 200+ you talk about. >>> >>> My KOLB MKIIIC has a empty weight of 598lbs fuel drained but otherwise >>> wet and ready to fly. I was careful but my plane has two coats of silver UV >>> paint , full rear enclosure with storage shelves and pockets behind the >>> seats for camping gear, full factory upholstery with added sound insulation >>> and solid steel landing gear. I never weighed my engine nor have I weighed >>> a wet 912 engine but based on my aircraft empty I would figure the VW to be >>> real close to the Rotax 912 fully configured and ready to fly. >>> >>> Rick Neilsen >>> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Richard Girard wrote: >>> >>>> I've always found that the Kolb guys do the right thing in their >>>> designs, and if that is true in limit loads, too, then the designer would >>>> have used a safety factor of 1.5 (pretty much an aircraft industry >>>> standard) so the ultimate load would be 6 g's. >>>> Limit loads are defined as loads that can be applied that result in no >>>> deformation of the structure. Even if the limit load is reduced to 3 and a >>>> fraction, unless you are going out and doing snap rolls at max gross your >>>> chances of hitting it are slim and nil. >>>> Then there is the fact that Va, maneuvering speed goes up with load, >>>> not down. >>>> Rick, as far as safety goes, if the spar carry through is designed for >>>> 4g's with a 110 to 140 lb. engine, it's much less safe putting a 200 lb.+ >>>> VW with redrive on the aircraft than just increasing max gross to 1200 lb. >>>> I've tested the Mk IIIX to 1108lb, so far, and if the wind stays in the >>>> low teens this afternoon I'll have tested it to 1200 lb. by this evening. I >>>> worry a lot more about the degradation of climb rate at that weight than I >>>> do about limit load. >>>> >>>> Rick Girard >>>> >>>> >>>> * >>> >>> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >>> >>> tp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> * >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Zulu Delta >> Mk IIIC >> Thanks, Homer GBYM >> >> It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be >> unhappy. >> - Groucho Marx >> >> >> * >> >> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List >> >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > * > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:14 PM PST US From: Eugene Zimmerman Subject: Re: Kolb-List: Re: Did you know crows snowboard? was >changes in EAA? To all my fellow Kolb brethren, Since we're on this extended break on the subject of "Kolb" aircraft, I thought I 'd post this link on unusual avian winter sport activity. http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/a-crow-appears-to-find-a-sour ce-of-winter-sport/?ref=science Gene Z On Jan 16, 2012, at 1:03 PM, Larry Cottrell wrote: > I too once belonged to the EAA, first to a local chapter. Then I realized that the magazines that the main EAA forced me to take held no interest for me. A friend was able to get his membership without paying for the mags. I did that for a year, then they decided that I had to take the mag whether I wanted it or not, and even worse I had to pay for the damn thing. I decided that I didn't need to belong to the org. either. Fortunately where I live and fly about the only thing that I can need insurance for is myself, so I do not need to belong. > Larry > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Dana Hague wrote: > Been a lot of discussion on this over on http://eaaforums.org. Lots of dissatisfied people over there, and the EAA brass is hearing it, if not paying attention to it. > > USUA is pretty dead too... no magazine, minimal staff... the only reason I'm a member is for the insurance. > > -Dana > > At 10:17 AM 1/16/2012, Richard Pike wrote: >> >> Maybe if more people started giving the EAA some competition? Our local sport flying club, the Mountain Empire Sport Flyers >> http://www.bcchapel.org/MESF/MESF.html >> is a member of the U S Ultralight Association >> http://www.usua.org/ >> >> Obviously compared to the EAA, USUA is a hole in the wall sort of group, but that works for us. > > -- > The American people get the government they deserve, and they get it good and hard. > > > get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > > -- > If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending. > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:49 PM PST US From: Malcolm Brubaker Subject: Kolb-List: michigan kolberPARTY please call me if you want to come mal Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker Michigan Sport Pilot Repair LSRM-A, PPC, WS Great Sails - Sailmaker for Ultralight & Light Sport (989)513-3022 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "aerograf@power-net.net" ; "Lang, J 6/12" ; "Klepser, J 6/12" ; "Spinney, J N/A" ; "Fittante, P 6/12" ; ASC HQ N/A ; "Kociba, K NL Exch. BARUC" ; "Linker, Robert" ; Linker R NA/O ; "Niles, D 6/12" ; "CARMER, J 6/12" ; "Tucker, D 6/12" ; "Hall, J 6/12" ; "Hasman, B 6/12" ; "Jaques, K 6/12" ; "Smith, D 6/12" ; "Soper, L 6/12" ; "McKay, Julie - Owosso Airport Assoc." ; "McArthur, J 6/11" ; "Gerics, M 6/12" ; "Miller, M (L.M.)" ; "Mikesell, C 6/11" ; "Minarik, L 6/12" ; "EAA Jones, M N/A" ; "McKusick, M 6/11" ; "Morrell, K 6/12" ; "Allen, D. 6/11" ; "Anderson, P&D 6/12" ; "DRASUTIS, P 6/12" ; "Adkison, P 6/12" ; "Demeter,P N/A" ; "Purdy, P N/A" ; "LaPorte, D 6/12" ; "Perry, Rob 6/11" ; "Ferrier, B 6/12" ; "Scott Blixt, N/A NLE" ; "Schmitz, W 6/12" ; Ultralight Flying N/A ; "Kaye, T 6/11" ; "Hart, D N/A-O" ; "Smith, R 6/12" ; "Spence, S 6/12" ; "Spence, S 6/12" ; Grass Roots Aviators ; "Jones, R 6/12" ; "Beaupre, T GTUF NL Exch N/A" ; "Van Ee, G 6/11" ; "Myers, J. 6/12" ; "Williams, J 6/12" ; "WARDAVOIR, G N/L Exch" ; "Pickens, B NLE" ; "Barrow, W N/A-O" ; "Hanes, R 6/11" ; "LaBar, R 6/12" ; "Boross, Z 6/10" Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 1:21 PM Subject: MULA WINTER PARTY FLYER Reminder Flyer for the MULA Party Denny Demeter AV/Grafix, Ltd. (800)-352-2296 (989) 288-3090 www.avgrafix.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:21 PM PST US From: David Kulp Subject: Kolb-List: Did you know crows snowboard? That was neat, Gene! I'm going to use the break in Kolb chat to share this simulation of the Hudson River landing in '09. Captain Sullenberger is a true professional aviator who deserves tons of respect! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE_5eiYn0D0&annotation_id=annotation_850214&feature=iv Dave Kulp Bethlehem, PA Do Not Archive On 1/16/2012 7:16 PM, Eugene Zimmerman wrote: > To all my fellow Kolb brethren, > > Since we're on this extended break on the subject of "Kolb" aircraft, > I thought I 'd post this link on unusual avian winter sport activity. > > http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/a-crow-appears-to-find-a-source-of-winter-sport/?ref=science > > > Gene Z > > > ** ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:11 PM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: Kolb-List: Blade Grip Comparison, GSC and Warp Drive These two photos compare a solid wood GSC blade and a WD carbon fiber blade grip. Both blades experienced catastrophic failure: -The GSC blade failed impacting the tail boom of my MKIII, then collecting the other two blades. That was sometime in September 1993. That failure cost me a tail boom replacement and some tube and fabric work. -The WD prop blade is from a RANS S-12 that got away from the owner at WOT and without wings. Lucky man did not get chewed up by the prop because the landing gear knocked him and his buddy down when it skyrocketed down the taxiway. The aircraft continued WOT to the edge of the airport, his a small berm, then launched about 20 feet in the air. In the process the blades when half way through a 10 inch pine tree truck that collected all three blades at the roots. I was parked facing the right side of the S-12, had just reached for the switch to start the engine in my MKIII, when I heard the 912UL scream and launch east. What a surprise. No one was injured, and the RANS was rebuilt with a new 912UL. john h mkIII Titus, Alabama ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.