Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:26 AM - Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer (Ellery Batchelder Jr)
2. 09:07 AM - Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer (Rick Neilsen)
3. 09:37 AM - Some things to check before covering the fuselage pod (Richard Girard)
4. 09:40 AM - Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer (Larry Cottrell)
5. 11:12 AM - Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer (Ron @ KFHU)
6. 11:38 AM - Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer (Larry Cottrell)
7. 01:36 PM - Re: Key West Regulator (DAquaNut@aol.com)
8. 02:13 PM - Re: Key West Regulator (George Alexander)
9. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: Key West Regulator (DAquaNut@aol.com)
10. 02:57 PM - Re: Key West Regulator (Herb Gayheart)
11. 02:58 PM - Re: Reputable Rotax engine rebuilders? (gyrodude)
12. 06:18 PM - Re: Key West Regulator (jerb)
13. 09:35 PM - Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer (Ron @ KFHU)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer |
the bottom line it is a warp drive prop ! I don't get free props from them
and I am not happy about losing an airplane because if it ,and it could ha
ve been worse I could have lost my life over it, I am not saying anything
else about this subject it accidentally got back on this list because Willi
am sullivan asked me a question about what was happening with it and I thou
ght it was a direct email from him when I replied back to him
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2012 8:30 pm
Subject: Re: Kolb-List: 2.5" IVO prop spacer
Ellery, if I understand correctly the "warp drive Prop that you had trouble
with was made by a company that doesn't exist anymore, in fact taken over
or purchased by Daryl, the current warp drive manufacturer. Is that correct
? I am a bit confused, in that I have a Warp Drive prop from Daryl that I r
ecently managed to send a hefty pair of side cutters through, and it didn't
even leave a mark on the blades. I know that they went through them, becau
se they hit the roof of my hanger and that is 15 feet off the ground.
If my information is correct and Daryl had nothing to do with the manufactu
re of your defective prop, fairness would require me to differentiate betwe
en the two when a discussion of Warp drive props was mentioned.
Larry
On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 4:17 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
I agree with you Tom I have a lot more hours with a IVO than a Warp and I h
ad a warp fail me in a short period of flying time
Ellery Batchelder Jr.
I have 3,000+ hours on Warp Drive solid carbon fiber blades over the last 1
8 years. Never had any kind of problem with WD products, even after sendin
g exhaust pipes, bolts, etc., through them.
Believe we determined recently the Warp Drive blades Ellery was using at th
e time of their failure were probably first generation cored blades built b
y the initial Warp Drive Company. Daryl has been the owner/manager of WD f
or more than 20 years. His company, the second generation company, has onl
y produced solid carbon fiber blades. WD is a big producer of solid carbon
fiber blades for the airboat industry, using the same technique to build
them as the UL/light plane community blades. Some of those six blade WD pr
ops are being turned by 350/454 Chevy's, 6 cylinder aircraft engines, and o
ther high powered exotic hot rod airboat engines. I am sure none of the ai
r boat gang are using cored WD blades.
I have also flown factory Kolbs with IVO props. They performed well. Only
problem I can remember was the SS tape pulling loose and cutting my finger
s trying to repair and replace.
Remember seeing Ivo walking around Sun and Fun many, many years ago with an
IVO prop over his shoulder. That was his first visit to Lakeland, with hi
s prop. He was trying to generate interest to get his prop shop up and run
ning. Cannot remember what year that was, but probably mid-80's.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer |
Seems like I read that the real hard bolts aren't recommended for prop
bolts because they are a bit brittle. My prop hub (PowerFin) requires a
much lower torque rating than the softer SAE 5 bolts can handle anyway so
that is what I use.
Also I use a standard nut on my prop bolts so that I can get accurate
torque settings. My prop flange isn't threaded. Then I put a nylock nut on
as a lock nut.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Ace has a good selection of metric bolts, 8.8 and the stronger ones of
> 10.9 which is what I buy for the Kolb Suzuki motor.
>
>
> ---- Herb Gayheart <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> ============
> When I needed some 8.8's , I found them at Advanced Auto , of all
> places....They stock the long ones for some reason and can usually
> have them next day...Herb
>
> At 11:14 AM 1/21/2012, you wrote:
>
>
> >On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Richard Girard
> ><<mailto:aslsa.rng@gmail.com>aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Your 447 has threaded and unthreaded holes on a 75mm bolt circle.
> >The threaded holes are 8mm - 1.25 mm pitch. You want to use 8.8 spec
> >bolts and it's easier to use lock nuts to secure them rather than
> >trying to find bolts with drilled heads, or drilling them yourself.
> >
>
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >For what its worth, I needed some 8.8 bolts for my IVO and couldn't
> >find them anywhere. I eventually found them at a John Deere tractor
> supply.
> >Larry
> >
>
> --
> Ron @ KFHU
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Some things to check before covering the fuselage pod |
After spending over an hour removing two screws and getting a sore back in
the process, I thought I'd offer this to any builders out there.
Before you cover the fuselage, assuming of course that you've installed all
the goodies in the fuselage first, check to be sure that all the fasteners
are accessible with ordinary hand tools. Mk III builders of both kinds,
check how hard it is to get at things when your only access is through the
door frames. Check to see that all those nylon ties are trimmed to
eliminate any sharp ends (see photo of what happens when they're not)
Basically, think maintenance. How will you get to any item in the pod to
check, lubricate, or replace it as required. Believe me, spending an hour
to remove two screws that were installed upside down where there isn't room
between the screw head and the fabric covering is not fun.
Okay, back to the hangar to install the new instrument pod pedestal and see
how much weight was saved by taking out the solid wood console.
Rick Girard
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer |
Sounds as though you are concerned about compromising a lawsuit. Just to be
clear, I don't get free props from Warp either, but I did get what I paid
for and that was a damn good strong prop for my airplane. I don't have an
axe to grind in any of this, just wanted some clarification since what was
called a Warp drive by you, didn't match with what I have on my plane.
Larry
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 6:23 AM, Ellery Batchelder Jr <elleryweld@aol.com>wrote:
> **the bottom line it is a warp drive prop ! I don't get free props from
> them and I am not happy about losing an airplane because if it
>
Message 5
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| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer |
Hi Rick
I looked into the "hardness issue some while ago". The bolts are not "brittle"
they are stronger in tensile sheer and tension. Its the same with grade 8 bolts
they are much stronger than 5 which in turn are equivalent to AN bolts, and
same with grade 10 bolts. The price difference is small so I opt for the stronger
stuff whenever I can. I agree that in most applications the cheapest bolt
we can find is more than adequate, but as a matter of personal satisfaction, and
cheap prop for my ego I spend a few pannies more and buy the stronger ones.
Hell if I was bigger, better, richer, and better looking maybe I would not want
to over compensate but it is what it is, or maybe I just like the best quality
whether I need it or not. :-)
Here is a table I found by a quick search, I am sure there are better tables out
there.
http://www.engineersedge.com/hex_bolt_identification.htm
=================================
---- Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
============
Seems like I read that the real hard bolts aren't recommended for prop
bolts because they are a bit brittle. My prop hub (PowerFin) requires a
much lower torque rating than the softer SAE 5 bolts can handle anyway so
that is what I use.
Also I use a standard nut on my prop bolts so that I can get accurate
torque settings. My prop flange isn't threaded. Then I put a nylock nut on
as a lock nut.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Ace has a good selection of metric bolts, 8.8 and the stronger ones of
> 10.9 which is what I buy for the Kolb Suzuki motor.
>
>
> ---- Herb Gayheart <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
>
> ============
> When I needed some 8.8's , I found them at Advanced Auto , of all
> places....They stock the long ones for some reason and can usually
> have them next day...Herb
>
> At 11:14 AM 1/21/2012, you wrote:
>
>
> >On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Richard Girard
> ><<mailto:aslsa.rng@gmail.com>aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Your 447 has threaded and unthreaded holes on a 75mm bolt circle.
> >The threaded holes are 8mm - 1.25 mm pitch. You want to use 8.8 spec
> >bolts and it's easier to use lock nuts to secure them rather than
> >trying to find bolts with drilled heads, or drilling them yourself.
> >
>
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >For what its worth, I needed some 8.8 bolts for my IVO and couldn't
> >find them anywhere. I eventually found them at a John Deere tractor
> supply.
> >Larry
> >
>
> --
> Ron @ KFHU
>
>
--
Ron @ KFHU
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer |
I don't mean to butt into a private conversation, but when I decided to put
a spacer between my Warp Drive Prop, and my HKS I asked about finding AN
aircraft bolts for it and someone informed me that the 8.8 bolts were what
was needed and the harder bolts were not better for the simple reason that
they were too hard and therefore brittle. I may be wrong, but I believe it
was Daryl of Warp Drive that told me so.
For what it is worth!
Larry
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Rick
> I looked into the "hardness issue some while ago". The bolts are not
> "brittle" they are stronger in tensile sheer and tension. Its the same with
> grade 8 bolts they are much stronger than 5 which in turn are equivalent to
> AN bolts, and same with grade 10 bolts. The price difference is small so I
> opt for the stronger stuff whenever I can. I agree that in most
> applications the cheapest bolt we can find is more than adequate, but as a
> matter of personal satisfaction, and cheap prop for my ego I spend a few
> pannies more and buy the stronger ones. Hell if I was bigger, better,
> richer, and better looking maybe I would not want to over compensate but it
> is what it is, or maybe I just like the best quality whether I need it or
> not. :-)
>
> Here is a table I found by a quick search, I am sure there are better
> tables out there.
>
> http://www.engineersedge.com/hex_bolt_identification.htm
>
>
> =================================
> ---- Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ============
> Seems like I read that the real hard bolts aren't recommended for prop
> bolts because they are a bit brittle. My prop hub (PowerFin) requires a
> much lower torque rating than the softer SAE 5 bolts can handle anyway so
> that is what I use.
>
> Also I use a standard nut on my prop bolts so that I can get accurate
> torque settings. My prop flange isn't threaded. Then I put a nylock nut on
> as a lock nut.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Ace has a good selection of metric bolts, 8.8 and the stronger ones of
> > 10.9 which is what I buy for the Kolb Suzuki motor.
> >
> >
> > ---- Herb Gayheart <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
> >
> > ============
> > When I needed some 8.8's , I found them at Advanced Auto , of all
> > places....They stock the long ones for some reason and can usually
> > have them next day...Herb
> >
> > At 11:14 AM 1/21/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > >On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Richard Girard
> > ><<mailto:aslsa.rng@gmail.com>aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Your 447 has threaded and unthreaded holes on a 75mm bolt circle.
> > >The threaded holes are 8mm - 1.25 mm pitch. You want to use 8.8 spec
> > >bolts and it's easier to use lock nuts to secure them rather than
> > >trying to find bolts with drilled heads, or drilling them yourself.
> > >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >For what its worth, I needed some 8.8 bolts for my IVO and couldn't
> > >find them anywhere. I eventually found them at a John Deere tractor
> > supply.
> > >Larry
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Ron @ KFHU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ron @ KFHU
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator |
Group:
Any one have a 447 with no battery and using the Key West regulator?
If so I need help. I have removed the engine from my plane and forgot
where the wires went. I think the brown wire goes from the engine down to the
negative post on the Key West regulator. I cannot find any info on the
computer. Seems Key West does not have a web page. I want to make sure I have
it right. I definitely want to be sure I can kill the engine!
Ed Diebel ( FF 62 )
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator |
DAquaNut(at)aol.com wrote:
> Group:
>
> Any one have a 447 with no battery and using the Key West regulator?
If so I need help. I have removed the engine from my plane and forgot where the
wires went. I think the brown wire goes from the engine down to the negative
post on the Key West regulator. I cannot find any info on the computer. Seems
Key West does not have a web page. I want to make sure I have it right.
I definitely want to be sure I can kill the engine!
>
>
> Ed Diebel ( FF 62 )
>
>
Ed:
The brown should go to ground. The yellow and the yellow/black should go to the
input (A/C) to the Key West. The output (DC) of the Key West would tie into
whatever you have that requires the 12V DC. The brown (ground) going to the
negative side of the output of the KW may have been someone's way of getting the
engine ground to whatever is being fed by the KW.
For further confusion go to Google and put in "Rotax Wiring Diagram". It'll make
your hair hurt.
Your results may vary.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364531#364531
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator |
George, I was the one who wired my firefly originally and have
170 hours on it. Do I need to run
the brown wire from the engine to the airframe?
That is the only one in question. It seems
Crazy at this point, but I may not have had it
right ,all along.
Ed Diebel (FF 62)
In a message dated 1/22/2012 4:13:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
gtalexander@att.net writes:
Ed:
The brown should go to ground. The yellow and the yellow/black should go
to the input (A/C) to the Key West. The output (DC) of the Key West would
tie into whatever you have that requires the 12V DC. The brown (ground)
going to the negative side of the output of the KW may have been someone's
way of getting the engine ground to whatever is being fed by the KW.
For further confusion go to Google and put in "Rotax Wiring Diagram".
It'll make your hair hurt.
Your results may vary.
--------
George Alexander
FS II R503 N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator |
One thing I seem to recall....is that the EIS folks in Michigan do
not recommend the Key West regulator..Herb
At 03:32 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:
>
>
>Group:
>
> Any one have a 447 with no battery and using the Key West
> regulator? If so I need help. I have removed the engine from my
> plane and forgot where the wires went. I think the brown wire goes
> from the engine down to the negative post on the Key West
> regulator. I cannot find any info on the computer. Seems Key West
> does not have a web page. I want to make sure I have it right. I
> definitely want to be sure I can kill the engine!
>
>
> Ed Diebel ( FF 62 )
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Reputable Rotax engine rebuilders? |
D and F Aviation In Goldsboro N.C. is a long time Rotax service center. Dwight
Edmiston is a retired F-15 mechanic . He is top notch and works on all the two
stroke and four stroke Rotaxes. He does boring and sleeving for most all engines,
aircraft, watercraft, motorcycles, ATV' etc. 919-778-8816
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364537#364537
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Key West Regulator |
At 04:53 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:
>One thing I seem to recall....is that the EIS folks in Michigan do
>not recommend the Key West regulator..Herb
>
Wow, that's new to me but may be true. Someone smart one to give
them a call and see if this is true and why they may not like the Key
West regular. I've been running one for years, although I do run a battery.
jerryb
Message 13
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| From: | "Ron @ KFHU" <captainron1@cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2.5" IVO prop spacer |
Yes I have run into this myth several times over the years, it reminds me of the
over square myth that was a fairly widespread reality back in the 70's. It
finally went away, not sure if it was me or that people finally thought about
it.
In any case and the best comparison I can make is the difference between 1100 aluminum
and 2024 aluminum. Or another away is that by the time you would reach
the brittle factor between grade 5 and grade 8 the grade 5 has already failed,
I am too lazy to look for fatigue or brittle factor between the grades but as
a SWAG I say we would not find much of a difference if any.
But I would love to be corrected, anytime I learn something factually new I am
happy.
Ron Mason
===========================
---- Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020@gmail.com> wrote:
============
I don't mean to butt into a private conversation, but when I decided to put
a spacer between my Warp Drive Prop, and my HKS I asked about finding AN
aircraft bolts for it and someone informed me that the 8.8 bolts were what
was needed and the harder bolts were not better for the simple reason that
they were too hard and therefore brittle. I may be wrong, but I believe it
was Daryl of Warp Drive that told me so.
For what it is worth!
Larry
On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Rick
> I looked into the "hardness issue some while ago". The bolts are not
> "brittle" they are stronger in tensile sheer and tension. Its the same with
> grade 8 bolts they are much stronger than 5 which in turn are equivalent to
> AN bolts, and same with grade 10 bolts. The price difference is small so I
> opt for the stronger stuff whenever I can. I agree that in most
> applications the cheapest bolt we can find is more than adequate, but as a
> matter of personal satisfaction, and cheap prop for my ego I spend a few
> pannies more and buy the stronger ones. Hell if I was bigger, better,
> richer, and better looking maybe I would not want to over compensate but it
> is what it is, or maybe I just like the best quality whether I need it or
> not. :-)
>
> Here is a table I found by a quick search, I am sure there are better
> tables out there.
>
> http://www.engineersedge.com/hex_bolt_identification.htm
>
>
> =================================
> ---- Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ============
> Seems like I read that the real hard bolts aren't recommended for prop
> bolts because they are a bit brittle. My prop hub (PowerFin) requires a
> much lower torque rating than the softer SAE 5 bolts can handle anyway so
> that is what I use.
>
> Also I use a standard nut on my prop bolts so that I can get accurate
> torque settings. My prop flange isn't threaded. Then I put a nylock nut on
> as a lock nut.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW powered MKIIIC
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 12:14 AM, Ron @ KFHU <captainron1@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Ace has a good selection of metric bolts, 8.8 and the stronger ones of
> > 10.9 which is what I buy for the Kolb Suzuki motor.
> >
> >
> > ---- Herb Gayheart <herbgh@nctc.com> wrote:
> >
> > ============
> > When I needed some 8.8's , I found them at Advanced Auto , of all
> > places....They stock the long ones for some reason and can usually
> > have them next day...Herb
> >
> > At 11:14 AM 1/21/2012, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > >On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 7:57 AM, Richard Girard
> > ><<mailto:aslsa.rng@gmail.com>aslsa.rng@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Your 447 has threaded and unthreaded holes on a 75mm bolt circle.
> > >The threaded holes are 8mm - 1.25 mm pitch. You want to use 8.8 spec
> > >bolts and it's easier to use lock nuts to secure them rather than
> > >trying to find bolts with drilled heads, or drilling them yourself.
> > >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >For what its worth, I needed some 8.8 bolts for my IVO and couldn't
> > >find them anywhere. I eventually found them at a John Deere tractor
> > supply.
> > >Larry
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Ron @ KFHU
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Ron @ KFHU
>
>
--
*If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.*
--
Ron @ KFHU
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