Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:07 AM - CARB ICING 912 (Rick Pearce)
2. 10:25 AM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (b young)
3. 11:49 AM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (John Hauck)
4. 03:17 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (Richard Girard)
5. 03:18 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (Arksey@aol.com)
6. 07:52 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (Gary Aman)
7. 08:30 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (b young)
Message 1
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I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the power on landing the
eng. quit. This is the second time this has happened. It started back up after
sitting on the run way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't
need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one else running carb
heat?
--------
Rick Pearce
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365622#365622
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: CARB ICING 912 |
I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the power on
landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this has happened. It started
back up after sitting on the run way a little bit both times. I have always
head you don't need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one
else running carb heat?
--------
Rick Pearce
i have been told that you dont need it as well... but when talking to a
friend that moved to utah from florida,,, he had mentioned that on very
humid days, it would ice up without carb heat, and i have felt that on one
occasion in over 700 hours that i was starting to get some, mostly by the
way it coughed when i throttled up after returning from a flight in the
spring after a storm.
boyd young
Message 3
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I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the
power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this
has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run
way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't
need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one
else running carb heat?
--------
Rick Pearce
Rick P/Kolbers:
Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912
and carb ice.
First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and
landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior
to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out.
Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die
below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked
across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30
minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912
purred like a kitten.
Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your
landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is
keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle
jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0
hours flying 912UL and 912ULS.
Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska,
installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked
great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed
carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with
no carb heat.
During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS,
experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40
miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B.,
flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice.
Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to
cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When
ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the
engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on
the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it
out of the venturi.
I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need
for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on
a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit.
Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with.
As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for
me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough
lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to
prevent a lot of ice buildup.
As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary."
john h
mkIII
Woodville, Florida
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: CARB ICING 912 |
I think someone posted this carb icing chart here awhile ago, but it
doesn't hurt to post it again.
Rick Girard
On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 1:46 PM, John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the
> power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this
> has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run
> way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't
> need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one
> else running carb heat?
>
> --------
> Rick Pearce
>
>
> Rick P/Kolbers:
>
> Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912
> and carb ice.
>
> First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and
> landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior
> to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out.
> Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die
> below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked
> across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30
> minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912
> purred like a kitten.
>
> Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your
> landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is
> keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle
> jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0
> hours flying 912UL and 912ULS.
>
> Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska,
> installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked
> great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed
> carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with
> no carb heat.
>
> During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS,
> experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40
> miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B.,
> flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice.
> Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to
> cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When
> ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the
> engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on
> the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it
> out of the venturi.
>
> I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need
> for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on
> a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit.
>
> Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with.
> As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for
> me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough
> lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to
> prevent a lot of ice buildup.
>
> As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary."
>
>
> john h
> mkIII
> Woodville, Florida
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: CARB ICING 912 |
good question Rick and good answer John....glad to get this information.
I have been wondering some about that subject after flying Bob's MK lll
with the 912 80 hp a lot last year I pass the info on to him..
do not archive...
Jim Swan Kolb Firestar ll, 503 Rotax , 6147 Wilcox Rd., Eaton Rapids, Mi
48827 ph 517-663-8488 GPS GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581 W084deg 44.825
In a message dated 2/4/2012 2:49:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes:
--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" _jhauck@elmore.rr.com_
(mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com)
Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912
and carb ice.
First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and
landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior
to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out.
Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die
below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked
across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30
minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912
purred like a kitten.
Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your
landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is
keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle
jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0
hours flying 912UL and 912ULS.
Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska,
installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked
great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed
carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with
no carb heat.
During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS,
experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40
miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B.,
flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice.
Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to
cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When
ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the
engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on
the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it
out of the venturi.
I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need
for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on
a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit.
Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with.
As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for
me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough
lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to
prevent a lot of ice buildup.
As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary."
john h
mkIII
Woodville, Florida
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: CARB ICING 912 |
John,
Do you think the type of exhaust you run helps keep the carb or intake air
warm enough to reduce icing?
G.Aman
-----Original Message-----
From: John Hauck <jhauck@elmore.rr.com>
Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 2:49 pm
Subject: RE: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912
I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the
power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this
has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run
way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't
need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one
else running carb heat?
--------
Rick Pearce
Rick P/Kolbers:
Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912
and carb ice.
First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and
landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior
to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out.
Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die
below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked
across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30
minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912
purred like a kitten.
Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your
landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is
keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle
jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0
hours flying 912UL and 912ULS.
Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska,
installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked
great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed
carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with
no carb heat.
During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS,
experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40
miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B.,
flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice.
Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to
cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When
ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the
engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on
the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it
out of the venturi.
I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need
for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on
a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit.
Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with.
As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for
me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough
lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to
prevent a lot of ice buildup.
As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary."
john h
mkIII
Woodville, Florida
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: CARB ICING 912 |
John,
Do you think the type of exhaust you run helps keep the carb or intake
air warm enough to reduce icing?
G.Aman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
gary
i dont know if the exhaust makes a difference or not, maybe john has an
opinion,,, but the reason i think the intake on the 912 does not have
the problem that some other engines do, is the length of the intake
from the carb to the heads. the short intake piping carries the heat
from the head to help keep the intake warm enough to keep the ice out.
i think you could mount some thermocouples along the way and prove or
disprove the theory. the rubber boot stops the heat from getting to
the carb, so the ice builds up on the butterfly. that is why moving the
throttle will help chip off the ice, john williamson told me that the
conical shaped air filters had more icing problems than the flat ones.
i dont understand what the difference would be or if he told me.
boyd
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