---------------------------------------------------------- Kolb-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 02/04/12: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:07 AM - CARB ICING 912 (Rick Pearce) 2. 10:25 AM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (b young) 3. 11:49 AM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (John Hauck) 4. 03:17 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (Richard Girard) 5. 03:18 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (Arksey@aol.com) 6. 07:52 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (Gary Aman) 7. 08:30 PM - Re: CARB ICING 912 (b young) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:07:12 AM PST US Subject: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 From: "Rick Pearce" I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one else running carb heat? -------- Rick Pearce Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365622#365622 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 10:25:32 AM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one else running carb heat? -------- Rick Pearce i have been told that you dont need it as well... but when talking to a friend that moved to utah from florida,,, he had mentioned that on very humid days, it would ice up without carb heat, and i have felt that on one occasion in over 700 hours that i was starting to get some, mostly by the way it coughed when i throttled up after returning from a flight in the spring after a storm. boyd young ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:20 AM PST US From: "John Hauck" Subject: RE: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one else running carb heat? -------- Rick Pearce Rick P/Kolbers: Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912 and carb ice. First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out. Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30 minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912 purred like a kitten. Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0 hours flying 912UL and 912ULS. Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska, installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with no carb heat. During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS, experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40 miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B., flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice. Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it out of the venturi. I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit. Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with. As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to prevent a lot of ice buildup. As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary." john h mkIII Woodville, Florida ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 From: Richard Girard I think someone posted this carb icing chart here awhile ago, but it doesn't hurt to post it again. Rick Girard On Sat, Feb 4, 2012 at 1:46 PM, John Hauck wrote: > > > I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the > power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this > has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run > way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't > need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one > else running carb heat? > > -------- > Rick Pearce > > > Rick P/Kolbers: > > Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912 > and carb ice. > > First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and > landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior > to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out. > Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die > below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked > across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30 > minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912 > purred like a kitten. > > Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your > landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is > keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle > jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0 > hours flying 912UL and 912ULS. > > Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska, > installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked > great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed > carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with > no carb heat. > > During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS, > experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40 > miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B., > flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice. > Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to > cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When > ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the > engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on > the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it > out of the venturi. > > I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need > for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on > a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit. > > Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with. > As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for > me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough > lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to > prevent a lot of ice buildup. > > As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary." > > > john h > mkIII > Woodville, Florida > > -- Zulu Delta Mk IIIC Thanks, Homer GBYM It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy. - Groucho Marx ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:57 PM PST US From: Arksey@aol.com Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 good question Rick and good answer John....glad to get this information. I have been wondering some about that subject after flying Bob's MK lll with the 912 80 hp a lot last year I pass the info on to him.. do not archive... Jim Swan Kolb Firestar ll, 503 Rotax , 6147 Wilcox Rd., Eaton Rapids, Mi 48827 ph 517-663-8488 GPS GPS FOR MY RUNWAY N 42 deg 28.581 W084deg 44.825 In a message dated 2/4/2012 2:49:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, jhauck@elmore.rr.com writes: --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" _jhauck@elmore.rr.com_ (mailto:jhauck@elmore.rr.com) Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912 and carb ice. First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out. Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30 minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912 purred like a kitten. Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0 hours flying 912UL and 912ULS. Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska, installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with no carb heat. During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS, experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40 miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B., flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice. Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it out of the venturi. I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit. Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with. As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to prevent a lot of ice buildup. As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary." john h mkIII Woodville, Florida ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:10 PM PST US Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 From: Gary Aman John, Do you think the type of exhaust you run helps keep the carb or intake air warm enough to reduce icing? G.Aman -----Original Message----- From: John Hauck Sent: Sat, Feb 4, 2012 2:49 pm Subject: RE: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 I flew to a fly in Sat morning. 17 deg. When I chopped the power on landing the eng. quit. This is the second time this has happened. It started back up after sitting on the run way a little bit both times. I have always head you don't need carb heat on a 912. I begining to wonder. Is every one else running carb heat? -------- Rick Pearce Rick P/Kolbers: Wouldn't comment if I did not have experience with the 912 and carb ice. First experience, 912ULS, was summer 2000, approach and landing Toad River Airstrip, British Columbia. Just prior to touch down the engine quite. Restart during roll out. Engine would run at 3,000 rpm and above, but immediately die below 3,000. Taxied back to the ramp, shut down, walked across the highway to the store to close my flight plan. 30 minutes later restarted with closed throttle and the 912 purred like a kitten. Icing up the idle jet is not a problem if you shoot your landing to make the field dead stick. Immediate action is keep the engine over 3,000 rpm. I don't worry about idle jet icing. It has only happened once in more than 3,000.0 hours flying 912UL and 912ULS. Next year during prep for flight to Point Barrow, Alaska, installed 385.00 worth of hot water carb heat. Worked great, but was a plumbing nightmare. A year later removed carb heat. Returned to Point Barrow in 2004. No ice with no carb heat. During a flight from Oregon to Alabama 2009, 912ULS, experienced carb ice at about 9,000 feet at cruise, about 40 miles west of Rock Springs, Wyoming. My wingman John B., flying a 912UL powered MKIII was also getting carb ice. Conditions were perfect for icing. Immediate action was to cycle the throttle from wide open to idle and back. When ice would release from the carb you could feel it in the engine. Cycling the throttle helps break loose the ice on the throttle plate, as does wide open throttle help pull it out of the venturi. I still do a lot of flying and do not use nor feel the need for carb heat. You may feel differently about carb heat on a 912 series engine and that won't bother me one bit. Here is something else I do that you all may not agree with. As above, won't bother me a bit if you do, but it works for me. I use Marvel Mystery Oil in my fuel. May add enough lubricity to the main jet, throttle plate, and venturi to prevent a lot of ice buildup. As my good buddy, Buford, says, "Your mileage may vary." john h mkIII Woodville, Florida ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:52 PM PST US From: "b young" Subject: Re: Kolb-List: CARB ICING 912 John, Do you think the type of exhaust you run helps keep the carb or intake air warm enough to reduce icing? G.Aman >>>>>>>>>>>>> gary i dont know if the exhaust makes a difference or not, maybe john has an opinion,,, but the reason i think the intake on the 912 does not have the problem that some other engines do, is the length of the intake from the carb to the heads. the short intake piping carries the heat from the head to help keep the intake warm enough to keep the ice out. i think you could mount some thermocouples along the way and prove or disprove the theory. the rubber boot stops the heat from getting to the carb, so the ice builds up on the butterfly. that is why moving the throttle will help chip off the ice, john williamson told me that the conical shaped air filters had more icing problems than the flat ones. i dont understand what the difference would be or if he told me. boyd ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message kolb-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kolb-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/kolb-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/kolb-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.