Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:00 PM - FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Jack B. Hart)
2. 12:12 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (John Hauck)
3. 12:48 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Richard Girard)
4. 01:12 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (Phil)
5. 02:29 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (John Hauck)
6. 02:30 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (John Hauck)
7. 03:02 PM - Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair (WhiskeyVictor36@aol.com)
8. 07:58 PM - Altitude/speed control on approach (David Kulp)
Message 1
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Subject: | FireFly Wing Brace Repair |
FireFlyers,
This is a little late but it may still be of some use especially to those
who are in the building process. Back on November 9, 2010 I was cleaning
the wings when I discovered a rattle in the outboard portion of the wings.
I was in the process of mounting the MZ 34 and so I didn't put the knife to
the wing fabric until March 17, 2011.
What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner
to the main spar had failed in each wing. I do not believe these to be
really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite
small. But because it is there, I repaired it. Finished the repairs on
July 13, 2011.
I took quite a few photos, and I put them up with some description of how I
fixed the problem. It can be seen at:
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly164.html
For those of you who have a FireFly under construction, it may be helpful to
add a small aluminum angle to this brace to prevent the tube from going out
of column when you shrink the wing fabric.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
Message 2
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Subject: | FireFly Wing Brace Repair |
What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner
to the main spar had failed in each wing. I do not believe these to be
really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite
small. But because it is there, I repaired it. Finished the repairs on
July 13, 2011.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Jack H/Kolbers:
Believe that is a fabric brace that does its job in tension. As the fabric
is shrunk it prevents the outboard aft corner of the rear wing spar in line
and not pushed backwards.
Dennis Souder can correct me if I am wrong. For that matter, anyone else
can too. ;-)
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama - Fourth day of whining about my virus that is running
rampart through the SE.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair |
Jack, I found similar damage on my Firestar when I removed the covering.
Apparently it is an area of concern for the 5 rib Firestar, too.
Rick Girard
On Sun, Feb 12, 2012 at 2:08 PM, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>wrote:
>
> FireFlyers,
>
> This is a little late but it may still be of some use especially to those
> who are in the building process. Back on November 9, 2010 I was cleaning
> the wings when I discovered a rattle in the outboard portion of the wings.
> I was in the process of mounting the MZ 34 and so I didn't put the knife to
> the wing fabric until March 17, 2011.
>
> What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner
> to the main spar had failed in each wing. I do not believe these to be
> really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite
> small. But because it is there, I repaired it. Finished the repairs on
> July 13, 2011.
>
> I took quite a few photos, and I put them up with some description of how I
> fixed the problem. It can be seen at:
>
> http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly164.html
>
> For those of you who have a FireFly under construction, it may be helpful
> to
> add a small aluminum angle to this brace to prevent the tube from going out
> of column when you shrink the wing fabric.
>
> Jack B. Hart FF004
> Winchester, IN
>
>
--
Zulu Delta
Mk IIIC
Thanks, Homer GBYM
It isn't necessary to have relatives in Kansas City in order to be unhappy.
- Groucho Marx
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair |
Hi Jack:
I just examined mine. I'm about a month away from covering (cold here in TN
!). Those are the longest lengths of 5/16th to begin with, at over a yard e
ach.
Sure enough, both of mine have a-curve. The points of attachment at the t
railing edge corner and the brace 9" away are both very nearly level. But t
hey both then attach to the 5" spar 2+ inches up from level inducing a smal
l curve. Thanks for bringing this up.
Phil H
FF-11-4-076
FF-11-4-076
--- On Sun, 2/12/12, Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net> wrote:
From: Jack B. Hart <jbhart@onlyinternet.net>
Subject: Kolb-List: FireFly Wing Brace Repair
FireFlyers,
This is a little late but it may still be of some use especially to those
who are in the building process.- Back on November 9, 2010 I was cleaning
the wings when I discovered a rattle in the outboard portion of the wings.
-
I was in the process of mounting the MZ 34 and so I didn't put the knife to
the wing fabric until March 17, 2011.
What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear corner
to the main spar had failed in each wing.- I do not believe these to be
really critical because the load that the outer wing panel carries is quite
small.- But because it is there, I repaired it.- Finished the repairs o
n
July 13, 2011.
I took quite a few photos, and I put them up with some description of how I
fixed the problem.- It can be seen at:
http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly164.html
For those of you who have a FireFly under construction, it may be helpful t
o
add a small aluminum angle to this brace to prevent the tube from going out
of column when you shrink the wing fabric.-
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
le, List Admin.
Message 5
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Subject: | FireFly Wing Brace Repair |
Jack, I found similar damage on my Firestar when I removed the covering.
Apparently it is an area of concern for the 5 rib Firestar, too.
Rick Girard
More so concern for the skimpy lateral bracing of the leading edge tube that
keeps those five little rib noses in column. Those little 5/16" OD .028"
wall 6061 aluminum tubes are all that carry the weight and stress of the
Firestar and Ultrastar. After losing both wings back to the main spar on my
Firestar, I am really sensitive about these braces. In fact, I increased
the lateral bracing on my MKIII wings to 1/2" OD .032 wall 6061 to insure
the rib noses will stay in column on my airplane.
Don't think the fabric brace on the bow tip will help keep the rib noses in
column. It is a fabric brace in tension only.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
Message 6
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Subject: | FireFly Wing Brace Repair |
Sure enough, both of mine have acurve. The points of attachment at the
trailing edge corner and the brace 9" away are both very nearly level. But
they both then attach to the 5" spar 2+ inches up from level inducing a
small curve. Thanks for bringing this up.
Phil H
Normal to have a curve in the 5/16 tube brace. This tube brace works in
tension only.
john h
mkIII
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: FireFly Wing Brace Repair |
Jack & gang,
Yup, same thing happened to my original FireStar. Left wing at 38 hours
and right wing at 115 hours. Fixed it (similar to Jack's repair but a
little different) and they are still OK at 426 hours. Perhaps it's caused by
vi
bration or stress when folding the wings, which I do every time I fly. And
I do have the optional 1/2" angles attached to the end ribs per Kolb.
Bill Varnes
Original Kolb FireStar
Audubon NJ
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 2/12/2012 3:00:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
jbhart@onlyinternet.net writes:
What I found was that the long diagonal brace from the outboard rear
corner
to the main spar had failed in each wing.
Message 8
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Subject: | Altitude/speed control on approach |
Kolbers,
A short time ago I posted a question about reversing power for speed and
pitch for rate of descent when in the pattern. The resulting discussion
was about as vigorous as if I'd have asked if anyone ever tried flying
their Kolb with the wings upside down. So I emailed a friend who flies
for an airline and below is his reply. If you're interested in what he
had to say start at the bottom, as usual.
Jim and I talked this morning and he asserted that to do so is
"counter-intuitive", which is the way I felt when I first employed the
technique. Of course, when my FI and I entered the pattern we were
always at 1400' ASL since Queen City Airport is 400' ASL, so there was
seldom much variation from landing to landing, therefore I never had to
"grab a handful of throttle." But flying the FF into different airports
I've found conventional speed/altitude adjustments are sometimes
required. Flying into Blairstown, NJ can be intimidating with a hill
where you turn downwind to base! I'd be interested to know if anyone
else has been taught this or has tried it.
It's really cold here, now, but I did get some flying in about 3 weeks
ago, which isn't bad for a NE winter. Hope you all are getting your
required altitude fixes.
POI of interest to some about Jim; he won the 2009 Iron Butt Rally,
logging 12,706 miles in 11 days on his BMW motorcycle. (And I feel
pretty proud of 11,014 miles in 3 weeks from Lansdale, PA to the Atigun
Pass on the Haul Rd. in AK and back home on my BMW K100LT!!) If you're
interested you can Google "Jim Owen Iron Butt 2009" and click on the
_Rally Routing Seminar with Jim Owen_ link. Last Fall he had the
misfortune of low-siding his Beemer on a rainy oil slick in Ky in a 24
hr. rally. His cycle wasn't banged up too badly, but he personally went
into the guard rail legs-first and did a number on his right leg. He
had it pinned and screwed together and has nothing to show for it now
except the scars.
Happy flying, all.
Dave Kulp
Bethlehem, PA
FireFly 11DMK
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Altitude/speed control on approach
From: James A Owen <eagle767@
Wow!! Cool video. No Kolb in my garage just yet. :-0
What your instructor taught is definitely the correct way to make SUBTLE
adjustments when you're in sync with the approach path and speed. If you're
diverging too much from airspeed you need to grab a hand full of throttle
and if you're too far off the glide path a large pitch adjustment is
necessary. But when you're in the groove, pitch to control airspeed and
throttle to control glide path. The more swept wing, the more true. The
more engines act to pitch the airplane up (as in wing mounted engines), the
more true.
:-)
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: David Kulp [mailto:undoctor@ptd.net]
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2012 1:58 PM
Subject: Altitude/speed control on approach
Jim,
Rather than wait 'til Thursday and then finding you're in London, Rome
or East Chibip, I decided to email a question I have for you. Did you
buy the BMW R1100 powered Kolb?
Just kidding.
When I was taking flying lessons a couple of years ago, my flight
instructor taught me that in the pattern I was to reverse the power to
determine speed and elevators to control altitude mode and to use the
elevators to control the airspeed as we descended and adjust the power
to determine my rate of descent (altitude) in order to determine the
point of touchdown. The end of the throttle control was when I was sure
I would make the numbers and then pull the power off.
I have a video from inside the cockpit of a jet doing an AC carrier
landing, which I'll attach. You can hear him work the thrust very
carefully since his margin of error is almost zilch. OK, my question;
is this what you're taught to do when landing the 767s, Airbuses, etc.?
I'd never heard of it before my Queen City instruction, but of course I
only had 3 hours of instruction back in '90 from a fellow trucker who,
although having his own air strip, was an old flyer who probably pretty
much taught himself.
See you Thursday,
Dave
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